First hamp "pra" new 4.0 real reduction-cali510

[CaryW]

Thank You!

Sorry I missed your answer until now.
I found an attorney that seems to "get it".

I will report back and let you and everyone know how it goes, but my plan is similar to your.
I don't care if they give me HAMP or not at this point, and am going to tell them what I want.

Aloha Hopeful in Hawaii,
I'm trying to get a PRA because our property in hawaii is so far underwater. After reading this post, it seems having an attorney might be helpful in this regard. I have been contemplating just walking away from the property rather than signing a loan mod (IF it's eventually offered) that would still keep us $100k upside down. A mod with PRA would make more sense. Because we are making our third trial payment (to BAC) by the end of this month, time is a factor. I don't have the time to research all the attorneys in HI and thought I might ask for the name of the attorney that you found. Can you post that information on this blog or is that not allowed?

[Hopeful In Hawaii]

Aloha Hopeful in Hawaii,
I'm trying to get a PRA because our property in hawaii is so far underwater. After reading this post, it seems having an attorney might be helpful in this regard. I have been contemplating just walking away from the property rather than signing a loan mod (IF it's eventually offered) that would still keep us $100k upside down. A mod with PRA would make more sense. Because we are making our third trial payment (to BAC) by the end of this month, time is a factor. I don't have the time to research all the attorneys in HI and thought I might ask for the name of the attorney that you found. Can you post that information on this blog or is that not allowed?

I am using James Fosbinder. I am using him specifically because he "get's it" and because I am filing a suit that I am fully prepared to litigate in federal court with a jury.

Do you live in Hawaii and on the property?

[CaryW]

I am using James Fosbinder. I am using him specifically because he "get's it" and because I am filing a suit that I am fully prepared to litigate in federal court with a jury.

Do you live in Hawaii and on the property?

Short version of long story = our HI property was originally investment property until savings ran dry trying to make up for last few years of negative revenue. I moved into property in attempt to save it via HAMP but considering moving out, asking for a short sale (or renting it till foreclosure sale which keeps getting postponed every month) and starting over. After reading so many of these posts, it seems the likelihood of being offered a mod that makes sense (ie w/ PRA) is small. Wondering if the best course of action might be to save (or put toward rent someplace else) what otherwise I would pay to more trial payments--assuming bank draws out the length of trail payments beyond the three.

This underwater foreclosure is my only property and this blog is my only source of help. I am so overwhelmed with it all that it's difficult to look at things objectively and make good decisions. I don't trust anything the bank tells me and I don't understand the legalities of it all. Thus my request for the attorney referral. So thanks for that and all the info you have contributed on this post and others.

[Hopeful In Hawaii]

Are you aware of the new law that is now in effect in Hawaii?

Mortgage Foreclosure Dispute Resolution (MFDR) program — Department of Commerce & Consumer Affairs

If you are very underwater you might be better off not trying for a mod. if they try to forclose using the non judicial process
you can do mediation and go for a short sale if that works for you, if, it will be non-recourse if you do not own any other property

[Jeffrey L. Shurtliff]

If you are suing for a Mod it will not work as banks do not have to modify. However if you get the right guy he can sue for fraud upon the original loan. In my case I am suing for use of Power of Sale upon the Plaintiff's Property using invalid documents. You must be very careful if you use fraud and be able to show the facts when using this word.

[CaryW]

Are you aware of the new law that is now in effect in Hawaii?

Mortgage Foreclosure Dispute Resolution (MFDR) program — Department of Commerce & Consumer Affairs

If you are very underwater you might be better off not trying for a mod. if they try to forclose using the non judicial process
you can do mediation and go for a short sale if that works for you, if, it will be non-recourse if you do not own any other property

I had read about this bill on your other post. Parts of the bill confuse me, such as non-judicial vs judicial. Non-judicial (which is how I believe the property was being handled prior to preliminary trial period) seems like the better of the two, yet the last part of the bill allows non-judicial to convert to judicial as if some owners would prefer that process. Why would an owner prefer judicial? Also, I think this bill applies to only new foreclosures. I believe my first sale date was several months ago but continues to be postponed, so would property be considered old foreclosure? ...And, what if I move out of the property? I will try to call the phone number in the morning to learn more about it. And thanks for you help!

[TomEason]

CaryW
A borrower might prefer a judicial foreclosure for several reasons: 1) It takes longer and costs the lender more $$, 2) it is court supervised, 3) if the borrower has a legal cause(s) of action against the loan servicer, the homeowner can cross complain (as opposed to having to initiate a lawsuit in a trustee sale). And, moving out of the property early will do nothing for you.

[Hopeful In Hawaii]

I had read about this bill on your other post. Parts of the bill confuse me, such as non-judicial vs judicial. Non-judicial (which is how I believe the property was being handled prior to preliminary trial period) seems like the better of the two, yet the last part of the bill allows non-judicial to convert to judicial as if some owners would prefer that process. Why would an owner prefer judicial? Also, I think this bill applies to only new foreclosures. I believe my first sale date was several months ago but continues to be postponed, so would property be considered old foreclosure? ...And, what if I move out of the property? I will try to call the phone number in the morning to learn more about it. And thanks for you help!

Did you call them? They might be able to answer your questions, let us know.

Call (808) 586-7582 or (808) 586-2760 for more information about the dispute resolution program for non-judicial foreclosures

[Hopeful In Hawaii]

You also should know thAt if you lose doing a Judicial foreclosure they CAN come after you for any money owed, they can not do that in a non judicial. It is confusing because Hawaii had TWO kinds of non-judicial foreclosure process's. It was messed up and now they can only use the "second one". I would call to find out now, there are many changes , they may not even be sure themselves, so stay on top of this, the state is likely to help you if you contact them and stay with it, because it is in a transition period and the state is really looking to protect home owners

[Hopeful In Hawaii]

Oh you have Bank Of America for your servicer?

Most Important call that number, BOA is meeting people Face to Face in Hawaii right now,
you should get an appointment NOW because they are not here much longer.


I have a PDF flyer I copied and pasted below, not sure how else to give you a pdf.

Worried about Foreclosure?
NOW THERE IS HELP FOR HAWAII FAMILIES!
On May 5th, Governor Abercrombie signed into law one of the strongest foreclosure prevention statutes
in the country, thanks to FACE advocates & strong leadership at the legislature. If you or someone you
know is facing default or foreclosure, make sure you are taking advantage of ALL available resources.
Do you need FREE, quality help applying for a LOAN MODIFICATION?
Call Hawaiian Community Assets at 760-5100, on Maui.
Are you interested in using the new MANDATORY MEDIATION LAW?
The mediation program is not expected to be up and running until October 2011. Until it
is, there is a halt to any new foreclosures. A very useful summary of the program, along
with options and information for all homeowner situations, is available at:
Mortgage Foreclosure Dispute Resolution (MFDR) program — Department of Commerce & Consumer Affairs
Are you are ALREADY in foreclosure RIGHT NOW?
You may convert from a non-judicial foreclosure to a judicial foreclosure. This will allow
you to go before a judge to hear your case BEFORE the foreclosure is allowed to proceed.
If you choose to convert, you must complete the conversion by August 15, 2011. You may
want a lawyer for this process, or contact the Legal Aid Society. You can get started on
your foreclosure conversion petition at:
http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/c..._adopt_ada.pdf
Do you feel that your lender has used FRAUD or DECEPTION in the way they
pursued your family in foreclosure?
Submit a written complaint to the Hawaii Office of Consumer Protection at:
http://hawaii.gov/dcca/ocp/consumer_...m-web-2009.pdf
Want to get involved with FACE's FORECLOSURE CAMPAIGN?
Send your name, phone number and email address to FACE.maui@FACEHawaii.org, or
text the info to 808-269-4437. And, check out the latest at: FACE Hawaii
HELP GET THE WORD OUT! . SHARE THIS INFO GENEROUSLY!

[Hopeful In Hawaii]

Here is some specific info on BOA Face To Face in Hawaii:
This info was written by BOA to legislators and it is BOA's stats :


Hawaii mobile tour is going very well. In the first two weeks we’ve been on Oahu, we met with more than 200 Bank of America customers and have more customers scheduling appointments every day. So far about 40% of our customers have received a decision on site, and in exit surveys, 100% of our customers responded they found value in meeting with a specialist.

We will be meeting with customers in Honolulu through May 13 and are now taking appointments for the next stops on our mobile tour:

Kuakini Tower – Kona
May 16-21, Monday –Friday, 9 am – 6 pm, Saturday 9 am to 1 pm

University of Hawaii, Hilo
May 23-28, Monday –Friday, 9 am – 6 pm / Saturday 3 – 7 pm

Wailea, Maui
May 31-June 10

To provide customers with dedicated assistance, meetings with our specialists are by appointment only. Customers should call us at 1.855.201.7426 Monday through Friday from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Hawaiian Standard Time to schedule an appointment.

Additionally, within the direct mail invitations customers receive a list of all required documentation related to monthly income and expenses. This information is critical in order for our specialists to thoroughly review a customer’s current situation and to determine their eligibility for loan assistance options. Please encourage any of your constituents to bring all of the required documentation as outlined in the checklist.

[CaryW]

You also should know thAt if you lose doing a Judicial foreclosure they CAN come after you for any money owed, they can not do that in a non judicial. It is confusing because Hawaii had TWO kinds of non-judicial foreclosure process's. It was messed up and now they can only use the "second one". I would call to find out now, there are many changes , they may not even be sure themselves, so stay on top of this, the state is likely to help you if you contact them and stay with it, because it is in a transition period and the state is really looking to protect home owners

Hopeful, Thanks for all the great info you have provided, I really appreciate your time and help!

In regards to your above post, you are right that they don't even know themselves. I've called the HI Dept of Commerce & Consumer Affairs, Legal Aid Society of HI and three other counseling agencies and so far I still do not have clear answers to my questions. The representatives answering for these agencies either refer me to another one, or say that a knowledgeable counselor able to answer my questions will call me back later or (in the case of Legal Aid Society of HI) can't call me back for 4-6 weeks. I'm still waiting for call backs....

[Hopeful In Hawaii]

You are welcome, I am so happy if you I can help anyone even a little.

Because they are not clear yet, make sure you document everything including the calls you make for help.


You might also contact your Rep, there were some reps and senators that were very active in helping this bill pass.
Just so they can help you get the answers and can back you up if there is an issue because you could not find answers.

[CaryW]

Hopeful,

Update: Recently rec'd permanent HAMP Mod papers. Typical 2,3,4,4.5% interest rate. Loan term extended. No principle reduction. Still leaves us $100K underwater.

Bank of Am. Fannie Mae. Won't tell me who the investor is. (BofA also holds the second lien.) 12 months into default.

We prefer to move out and rent the property and ask the bank to consider us for an in house mod (based on non occupancy) hoping for a mod similar to the HAMP interest rates, but not sure what the consequences might be. I worry they would offer us something worse than the HAMP and then foreclose on us when we can't afford that offer and pursue recourse with a judgement later. We want to avoid any deficiency judgement problems in the future so foreclosure or short sale are a last option unless we knew for certain that we can walk away without further repercussions (except for shattered credit which is already done anyway). What do you think our chances are?

As I understand it, Fannie Mae may have changed our non-judicial foreclosure proceedings to judicial??? Can you tell me how this might effect us in terms of 1)potential in house mod or 2) continued foreclosure proceedings/deficiency judgment if we don't accept the HAMP perm mod currently being offered?

By the way, I previously asked Bank of America for a dispute resolution appointment but they said they had no idea what I was talking about.

Thanks again for continued support from Hopeful and everyone contributing to this forum!

You are welcome, I am so happy if you I can help anyone even a little.

Because they are not clear yet, make sure you document everything including the calls you make for help.


You might also contact your Rep, there were some reps and senators that were very active in helping this bill pass.
Just so they can help you get the answers and can back you up if there is an issue because you could not find answers.

[MsSummer]

I am currently in Foreclosure w/ BofA, loan originally funded by Countrywide. I am in communication with BofA to try to modify the loan - I was not approved for the MHA program because of income being too high. Although I informed them that my income was going to be cut drastically. Last week my income resumed back to my base annual salary. I told them all along this was going to happen. Had I waited to apply, although I didn't have time on my side to wait, I really think I would have been accepted. BofA says now, that once you are declined for the MHA program, that's it - you cannot reapply! In addition, I asked BofA about this HAMP PRA program (ATG Settlement) and was informed that I would have been informed by mail if any settlement pertaining to Countrywide included me and all the money has been used and/or is accounted for anyway. Can anyone shed any light on this - I am thinking I should hire an attorney, but don't want to be scammed and throw more money away. Cali510 did you hire an attorney to assist you?

[MsSummer]

Hi cali510,

Are you at liberty to say who your attorney is? At this point, I am looking to hire an attorney and would like to consult those who have successfully worked on behalf of distressed homeowners - I am just so afraid of being scammed.

Thanks!

[lucknpat]

Hi cali510,

Are you at liberty to say who your attorney is? At this point, I am looking to hire an attorney and would like to consult those who have successfully worked on behalf of distressed homeowners - I am just so afraid of being scammed.

Thanks!

Hi MsSummer,

Do you know for sure if you qualify for a modification? Have you contacted the guys over at REST Report just to see if you would? Search for the Find out Now if you Qualify thread and reply to that with all the information they ask, completely otherwise they can't answer.

That would be very helpful to you to know before hiring an attorney because in order for an attorney to help you have to have a case. Meaning the bank/broker etc for your loan has to have done something wrong either in your loan documents or the foreclosure process. If everything has been done correctly then they won't be able to do you much good. Unfortunately that is the way of things. An attorney can listen to your situation and have a look at your documents to see if you have a case. I wouldn't waste your time unless you know you qualify because the bank is only interested in working with customers who have homes where the investor would come out on top versus foreclosing.

I know this because even our attorney got a request from the bank's counsel to have the NPV test done etc. so that it shows them we actually qualify. If you find out or you do know you qualify post your email and I will pass on my attorney's info to you. Since you are in LA area like us.

Take Care.

[freedomwon]

I am currently in Foreclosure w/ BofA, loan originally funded by Countrywide. I am in communication with BofA to try to modify the loan - I was not approved for the MHA program because of income being too high. Although I informed them that my income was going to be cut drastically. Last week my income resumed back to my base annual salary. I told them all along this was going to happen. Had I waited to apply, although I didn't have time on my side to wait, I really think I would have been accepted. BofA says now, that once you are declined for the MHA program, that's it - you cannot reapply! In addition, I asked BofA about this HAMP PRA program (ATG Settlement) and was informed that I would have been informed by mail if any settlement pertaining to Countrywide included me and all the money has been used and/or is accounted for anyway. Can anyone shed any light on this - I am thinking I should hire an attorney, but don't want to be scammed and throw more money away. Cali510 did you hire an attorney to assist you?

In regards to the countrywide settlement, BofA has taken the attitude of don't call us, we'll call you. Here are the links for the complaint & the settlement. Be sure to read the settlement in it's entirety.
The people of Ca. vs. Countrywide. http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/pre...complaint2.pdf BofA is under court order to abide by this stipulated judgment. http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/pre...w_judgment.pdf

Become familiar with which parts pertain specifically to your loan. There is different sets of criteria you'll need to sift through. Put the burden of proof on BofA & hold them accountable in the eye of the OCC & the AG.

I have involved the OCC & the Ca. Attorney Generals office in my case file & all correspondence. I'm pushing the point of the countrywide stipulated judgement. You can read the letter I sent here My recent letter to BofA (Part 2)

[MsSummer]

Thanks lucknpat & freedomwon!!! I'm still trying to deal with BofA, so we'll see what happens. They are the enemy and it's hard not to give up!!! I am going to resubmit my information to the home assistance programs just to see if there is anything else out there to help me. BofA says, you can not reapply for HAMP, once you're denied, however, the HAMP folks tell me you can reapply?? --- BofA also doesn't seem to care that they were court ordered to modify those Countrywide loans that were likely to default via the June 2008 settlement! Just so darn frustrating!!

[TomEason]

Thanks lucknpat & freedomwon!!! I'm still trying to deal with BofA, so we'll see what happens. They are the enemy and it's hard not to give up!!! I am going to resubmit my information to the home assistance programs just to see if there is anything else out there to help me. BofA says, you can not reapply for HAMP, once you're denied, however, the HAMP folks tell me you can reapply?? --- BofA also doesn't seem to care that they were court ordered to modify those Countrywide loans that were likely to default via the June 2008 settlement! Just so darn frustrating!!

MsSummer

Thanks for your post. As you know, the loan servicer's reps are woefully uninformed and just make up answers as they please, instead of saying " ...I'm not sure" or "I'll need to check on that" or God forbid "you may be correct."

In this case the BOA rep is dead wrong. You can reapply for a HAMP loan mod several times (there's no limit), and you don't need a loan servicer's "permission" to do so. Simply download the RMA packet, complete and forward with supporting documents.

Good luck!

[Jeffrey L. Shurtliff]

If you have documentation of a court order that orders country wide loans modified then you need to continue to stick that document in their face. If they foreclose on you then you have a cause for action.

[MsSummer]

Thanks Tom & Jeffrey, I will keep you posted!!!

[MsSummer]

Okay, I'm caving in... I feel like a helium balloon that is losing it's helium! I am beyond my 90 days since NOD was filed and the BofA negotiator says that my file is being passed on to upper management (as opposed to lower management???) doesn't make sense. They are using our ytd income, which includes overtime but has halted until next year. Basically, they're going to try to put us into a loan that we can't afford once again. I have brought up the AG Countrywide settlement and they say we obviously didn't meet the criteria, or they would have contacted us. I have read it and believe that we meet the criteria of the predatory lending laws - then today the negotiator told me that no one put a gun to our heads to sign the loan docs!!!!! I only have a matter of days and I am ready to put up my white flag. Please advise if any of you know an atty in California that can file an injunction, that is what the guy from HUD said to do today. Much thanks!

[LoanModHelpCenter.com]

Okay, I'm caving in... I feel like a helium balloon that is losing it's helium! I am beyond my 90 days since NOD was filed and the BofA negotiator says that my file is being passed on to upper management (as opposed to lower management???) doesn't make sense. They are using our ytd income, which includes overtime but has halted until next year. Basically, they're going to try to put us into a loan that we can't afford once again. I have brought up the AG Countrywide settlement and they say we obviously didn't meet the criteria, or they would have contacted us. I have read it and believe that we meet the criteria of the predatory lending laws - then today the negotiator told me that no one put a gun to our heads to sign the loan docs!!!!! I only have a matter of days and I am ready to put up my white flag. Please advise if any of you know an atty in California that can file an injunction, that is what the guy from HUD said to do today. Much thanks!

I would love to go over your numbers with you it bothers me to see anyone ready to raise the WHITE flag, lets look at your numbers...And see if its do able, and i will point you in the right direction. We have man y contacts as well, if need be. But first we need to look at your numbers ill give you my honest opinion flat out if it will work or not i do it all day every day for loansafe members... And you look like you really need help. I am not on here as much as i want to be so shoot me a call, or email me direct with your numbers from the qualify thread, in my signature ... and I will get in touch with you. Lets look at what options you have, do not take what the bank says at face value, they do LIE....

[TomEason]

MsSummer

Thanks for your post. I don't blame you at all for wanting the services of a lawyer to deal with BOA. I empathize with your predicament.

Please know that finding a good CA foreclosure defense lawyer is a non-trivial matter, a project that will likely take lots of time and effort. I recommend you do the search, narrow the prospects down to a short list, and then interview those lawyers on the phone. You might start your search with the MandelmanMatters site here Mandelman Matters | I'm here . . . Let the Games Begin. Click on the "Trusted Attorneys" tab.

A couple critical lawyer characteristics you will want. 1) A successful track record in dealing directly with loan servicers, either in negotiation of a re-structured loan, or in litigation where necessary, starting with a TRO to stop a foreclosure. 2) Guaranteed access to communicate directly with that lawyer (this should be specified in the written retainer agreement).

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[Hopeful In Hawaii]

Hopeful,

Update: Recently rec'd permanent HAMP Mod papers. Typical 2,3,4,4.5% interest rate. Loan term extended. No principle reduction. Still leaves us $100K underwater.

Bank of Am. Fannie Mae. Won't tell me who the investor is. (BofA also holds the second lien.) 12 months into default.

We prefer to move out and rent the property and ask the bank to consider us for an in house mod (based on non occupancy) hoping for a mod similar to the HAMP interest rates, but not sure what the consequences might be. I worry they would offer us something worse than the HAMP and then foreclose on us when we can't afford that offer and pursue recourse with a judgement later. We want to avoid any deficiency judgement problems in the future so foreclosure or short sale are a last option unless we knew for certain that we can walk away without further repercussions (except for shattered credit which is already done anyway). What do you think our chances are?

As I understand it, Fannie Mae may have changed our non-judicial foreclosure proceedings to judicial??? Can you tell me how this might effect us in terms of 1)potential in house mod or 2) continued foreclosure proceedings/deficiency judgment if we don't accept the HAMP perm mod currently being offered?

By the way, I previously asked Bank of America for a dispute resolution appointment but they said they had no idea what I was talking about.

Thanks again for continued support from Hopeful and everyone contributing to this forum!

Sorry I did not see your question till today for some reason!

If it is Fannie Mae than Fannie Mar is considered your investor. BofA is the servicer.

Recently there have been several Fannie Mae BofA loans that got permanent mods and than were declined with BofA saying Fannie Mae did not approve them but they will "fix it" whatever that means, but meanwhile seem to be pursuing foreclosure.

In fact, just today we finally got a Fannie Mae rep to come to Hawaii, to a meeting sponsored by HI US Rep Mazie Hirona.

Fanny is now ONLY doing Judicial Foreclosures in Hawaii, , Freddie has followed as well.

If they try to foreclose I am guessing it will be well over a year before they can foreclose, and maybe much longer as Hawaii does not have the set up to do a lot of judicial foreclosures.

Dispute Resolution is the program that starts in October here in Hawaii, and that happens only if they want to foreclose and file non judicially, which Fannie Mae has now decided they will not do.

It sounds like they have offered you the best deal possible already, not sure how you can do better?

Why not just take the offer?

I do not think they can do much to you if you take the offer and than later decide to rent .

If you wind up in Judicial Foreclosure, you could have to pay recourse especially if you own a second property

[lucknpat]

Okay, I'm caving in... I feel like a helium balloon that is losing it's helium! I am beyond my 90 days since NOD was filed and the BofA negotiator says that my file is being passed on to upper management (as opposed to lower management???) doesn't make sense. They are using our ytd income, which includes overtime but has halted until next year. Basically, they're going to try to put us into a loan that we can't afford once again. I have brought up the AG Countrywide settlement and they say we obviously didn't meet the criteria, or they would have contacted us. I have read it and believe that we meet the criteria of the predatory lending laws - then today the negotiator told me that no one put a gun to our heads to sign the loan docs!!!!! I only have a matter of days and I am ready to put up my white flag. Please advise if any of you know an atty in California that can file an injunction, that is what the guy from HUD said to do today. Much thanks!

MsSummer - if you have not spoken with Charlie yet I would definitely do that so you can see how the numbers work out for you. If he has indicated that you do in fact qualify and you are just not getting anywhere with the bank. No one put a gun to your head...really?? Come on, they took us for a ride too and we trusted that they were telling us the truth when they were not. Please don't give up.

[katita]

The face to face is only in Hawai...I prayed so long that this will happen sometimes in California..

[katita]

Hi Cali,
Was your loan a 4-option ARM? Did you show surplus in your income vs. expenses, by how much?
I just received package to send back for National Homeownership Program,I know 4-option ARMs from countrywide do qualify, and I stated that on my letter. I am on this fight since 2008 too.
I will appreciate your response, is your second lender a different bank? you said a loan servicing...what did you mean? In my case Boa is 2nd as Equity line and 1st loan was Countrywide now BoA