Denied for hamp judgments on title?

[FED UP]

My property is in New York ..Made 4 trial payments, rec'd a call saying I was approved for HAMP Modification, my file was going to their attorney to prepare the paperwork...then rec'd another phone call a week later saying they ran my title and their are judgments coming up...they want me to pay them and send the proof/sats. because they must remain in first lien position!
Fannie Mae Announcement 09-31 dated November 2, 2009 page 7 clearly states "First, Fannie Mae is eliminating the requirement for servicers to obtain subordinatioin agreements......' and on page 8 states "Third, Fannie Mae is removing the requirement that modification agreements in New York be recorded..."
Am I missing something here??? Please help!

[davephx]

I think in the Fannie release where it no longer requires resubordination but says something about something from a Title Company which I never understood.

Also have the judgements been made liens specifically against the property. I am not clear about this and may differ between states. But if a judgement has a lien it does have higher priority vs later recorded liens like the rolled up part of the modified mortgage.

The original mortgage is still senior. Its the rollup amount as I understand it that would be junior to prior filed judgment liens.

It would be interesting to learn what more you lean about this.

[FED UP]

Thanks for replying...yes it also states "under these new requirements, a title endorsement or simiar insurance product issued by a title insurance company is required when the amount capitalized is greater than $20,000 (aggregate capitalized amount of all modifications of the mortgage loan)...so if I am reading it correctly it is referring to title insurance. Perhaps my lender's title company will not insure my title due to the judgments..Yes the judgements are liens against the property. But in reading this perhaps I misunderstood the wording, in reading it I understood it as the modified mortgage under HAMP would remain in first position and not have to be re-recorded. I am praying that this revision will help me save my home, I am frantic.

[davephx]

Yep, and I am scared to death about this provision also since my rollup is more than 20K and with Fannie. I also may have cc judgemets coming. One at motion for summary judgement stage against me. Been applied for HAMP since it started in March 2009 with Citi

If under 20k should not be an issue.

But I am seeing HAMP's with over 20k done.. just not sure if Fannie....just another issue to worry about.

[FED UP]

Well mine is def over 20k as well. Have you been making the trial payments? if so, how long? December makes my fourth payment, but now since my file is with the lender's attorney "to prepare my modification" not sure what happens if they can not stay in first position..am I then denied...do I reapply?
I'm wondering if these credit card judgments could be subordinated if so I'll start making calls first thing tomorrow morning.
Its funny I haven't seen one person talk about this issue, I've 'googled' this topic and havent found anything...Im starting to feel like I am the only person with this issue which is very strange..if you think about it..a homeowner with 'financial hardship' more than likely has credit card judgments and other liens/judgments for that matter.

[davephx]

About to make the 6th trial. Started process in March. Told approved in May but no payment amount. Call every week, say paperwork looks good be patient but then get foreclosure notice and have been delaying sale date every 30 days and getting very nervous.

Many docs submitted and lost- one was now been sent 9 times and Monday need to be sure they have latest one.

As of 11/1 my trial was completely restarted over because they are so far behind and never got a trial modifications agreement sent. Over the months 12 different times loan mod folks told the computer to send me the Agreement but never got it till reset up on new trial 11/1. None of my info has changed they (Citi) just behind I was told.

Not much being said about the re-subordination issue may be good since may indicate its not a big issue. But now your post. There have been a few in the past as I recall but only like one or two.

With the FANNIE directive its not just cc but a rollup if over 20K. Yet seems has not been an issue since few reports here.

The cc judgment issue is new and a concern.

I have posted about about the 20K issue and scared me when the Fannie directive first came out. But again, no news may be good news, except here it is with you.

[FED UP]

yes, TRUST me I am scared! and I just read something about a 12/31/09 deadline too! "Important notice for borrowers who rec'd a trial period plan on or before Oct 1" that if a permanent modifcation is NOT signed by 12/31/09 you're DONE! I am very scared as mine started in Sept. .. how can they put a deadline on the borrower when we are waiting on the lender???
Last phone call with my lender (two days ago) they told me they are waiting on their attorney to get back to them...urgh!
By the way how do you get a 30day delay on sale date? what state are you in? I dont think I can do that here in New York.

[davephx]

The 12/31 deadline is suppose to be to put pressure on the lenders. It is totaly inconceivable that Treasury (who is on our side frantically trying to get servicer to get mods done) is going to deny us when the servicer is the one who is at fault.

But I think it is poorly written.

If the servier doesn't want to do mods it would be great they would think to not have to if they delay them beyond 12/31.

[FED UP]

It makes sense that it is to pressure the lender..just seems in my case this could be a way of denying me for good! seems the Fannie Mae announcement of November 2, 2009 regarding first lien position is poorly written as well. Wish I could find an attorney that knows as much as I do cuz I think I need some help with my situation. I will NEVER stop fighting to keep my home!

[davephx]

By the way how do you get a 30day delay on sale date? what state are you in? I dont think I can do that here in New York.

In AZ there is no limit written in the law, except a lawyer told me 90 days was the practical limit.

NACA sales response team did work fast when I was frantic and say they got a 90 day extension.

Citi Mangers Unit got a 90 day extension and than said they did better and got a no sales date status. Than Executive Response also assured me there was no sales date.

Loan mod folks show on their computers no sales date.

BUT..BUT..BUT... CR Title which is the Trustee for the sale (same mailing address in MO as Citi) tells me they can ONLY DELAY 30 days.

One month I challanged them like doesn't Citi who is the mortgage servicer who started the foreclosure have more say in when the sales date should be than the Title Company doing it for them?

They told me that yes if they get a direct call from the attorney's at Citi they can make it 90 days. I leave messages for zillions of folks at Citi but can't get any response. So as long as they show no sales date at CR Title they will extend another 30 days.

Actually no sale date can be worst than 90 days since if they deny and determine not qualified for other alternatives, they can make the sales date the next day and sell with no further notice as I understand it. And the no notice required for sale, is part of the Trial Period Agreement.

I am told if you don't contact CR Title like I do directly the day before the sale the CR Title computer will check status on Citi attorney computer and decide if sell or not. So if there is a screw up you have no time to solve other than 24 hours, no time to cure if you could etc.

I even frantically went to my first sale date sale to be sure wasn't sold - did extensive post here. Now I call the nice auction guy or e-mail him the day of the sale just to be sure his status is extend. When I met him at the action he and huge stac of papers with what with many entries on a page that he gets the day of the sale which he has to "call out" either to sell or announce postponed.

[FED UP]

What is NACA sales response team?
I contacted my lender's attorney who sent the sale date letter to me and confirmed with them my sale date is on hold (while I am in trial payment period) I know here in NY if I am denied my new sale date will be in about 30 days...Aurora Loan Services is my lender...and I have to be honest...I was very pleased with the whole process until this last issue!! I still do not understand why they dont run title in the first 30-60 days..how is a borrower suppose to know what shows up on title.

[davephx]

NACA.com

Home save tab

Save/Auction

Have to log in with NACA id and password

[FED UP]

Thanks, I am new to this whole mess, I never heard of NACA.com I will check it out.
What do you think your chances are of being approved for HAMP?

[snapple candy]

Fed Up,
I received a phone call this week also about a title issue too. Also a fannie loan. I got into a rather heated discussion with the underwriter about it. It has something to do with a grading system of some sort which I still was unable to get clarity on since the underwriter didnt like me asking questions about what she was requiring.

She explained that they needed to make sure that no judgments or liens took priority over theirs such as taxes. I said, you guys pay the taxes, you should know this. I said isnt that the job of the Title Company to determine all this??? That no liens are on the property?

In my case, my house was set up in a trust (for my kids) when I bought it. I was told, I had to take the home out of the trust to proceed with a HAMP perm. modification. The lender (a big boy lender) underwriter said they wouldnt give me a Grade A as required by Fannie. When I began to question who actually is requiring this, they got pretty pissy with me. First I was told, it was the Title Company giving me a grade A then when I pressed, the underwriter got mad told me she was going to give it a grade B and then I would be turned down for HAMP mod and could try and go for an in-house mod. Like I have the money to go pay an attorney to take it out of a trust, do the mod, then put it back into the trust? yeh right!

Well I asked this underwriter to give me something in writing. She said it was going out in the mail that day and I had 10 days to do what they wanted or I would be turned down. I asked her to fax it to me which she refused to do. I asked is it 10 days from the date of the letter and she said yes....so if I dont receive it until day 10 (xmas mail?) and dont have a chance to respond to this. She said that is right, thats why I am calling you so you can do it. I told her I wanted an attorney to review the requirement. She got all accusitory and said I thought you didnt have money for an attorney, you have money and blah, blah, blah she went off on me. Well getting an attorney to review a letter reuiring this is quite different than getting a trust removed and then put back....like $100 compared to $2K but she didnt want an explanation and started talking over me. I even said maybe its time to come take the house back. She said you can always get an in-house mod if you dont want to do this.

Well, luckily I got my wits about me after getting her name and ID number I asked for a supervisor which I highly suggest to anyone not getting the answers they want. I was on hold for what seemed like 10 minutes. The underwriter came back on and said her supervisor would call me back from her desk. I really didnt believe I was getting a call back at this point and thought I was getting the brush off. Well she did call me back about 5 minutes later. She said since I had bought the house with the trust set up before the purchase and loan finalized (Something I had told the underwriter), that I did not need to take the home out of the trust. Well after my blood pressure went up a few notchs, it was nice to normalize it again.

If something doesnt sound right to you. Ask for a supervisor. Many of these people doing these jobs dont know everything about the rules and may have misinterpreted something. People have been promoted to positions that may not be qualified to be there. They also are under tremendous case loads and dont want to hassle with people asking questions or demanding things. If I had not pushed this issue, I would have been required to pay 2K for an attorney to meet this requirement (which I did not have). I was willing to walk over this one, and still may in the end but only at my choosing. I realized how much I am at the breaking point with my lender. After over a year of getting jerked around, Im ready to say take this house and shove it.

[snapple candy]

"With the FANNIE directive its not just cc but a rollup if over 20K. Yet seems has not been an issue since few reports here."

Dave, when you talk about a requirement for a rollup if over 20K, can you please explain? I am not sure if I understand lien priority either. If you in first lien position, how does any other judgment or lien supercede it or a loan modification?

[FED UP]

Hi Snapple,
So do you think you will get a permanent modification now? Thanks for your advice, I DO plan on calling the manager...I am NOT giving up without an incredible FIGHT! Its scary that they will never fax or mail anything to confirm what they tell you over the telephone...I guess it is their way of protecting themselves. What I still dont understand is if liens/judgments are put on title AFTER the first mortgage..how is it that a modification is no longer in front of those liens. I may have to find the money for an attorney...I cant take this stress. I wish you well Snapple.

[litehouse01]

But some judgements are consent judgements where as you make a deal with the creditor to resume making set payments and then if you do not comply they will enforce the judgement.....are you all talking about judgements that have been enforced already against the property?

[davephx]

The problem is that to the extent the modified mortgage exceeds the amount of the original, the added amount from the roll up of back payments has a lower lien position than judgments filed before the higher amount on the modified mortgage.

I believe if one has a judgement it may apply to all properties including home without having to be specifically filed against the home but am not totally clear on this.

[FED UP]

Litehouse01, yes judgments against the property already.

[litehouse01]

I actually have a judgement for about 2000.00 but it never showed on my credit report and I never mentioned it...........

[davephx]

In AZ I am not clear if a judgment would be a problem or not. It can go on all real estate except their is a homestead exemption for the first $150,000 of equity - remember when we use to have equity. SO has no effect until we maybe have homes triple in price again to have that much equity.

[snapple candy]

"The problem is that to the extent the modified mortgage exceeds the amount of the original, the added amount from the roll up of back payments has a lower lien position than judgments filed before the higher amount on the modified mortgage.


I believe if one has a judgment it may apply to all properties including home without having to be specifically filed against the home but am not totally clear on this."

Dave,

I think the lien has to be filed against the property specifically.

The issue about the added on amount (to back end of loan) taking 2nd or third position makes sense now. It took me a few days to grasp this. Its somewhat complicated in a way. I suppose those whom have those liens could use this against you and gum up your loan mod if you dont agree to make arrangements to agree to pay them. They kind got you by the blls. Not a good negotiating position.

Just another thing to slow the process down.

My perm mod still stuck in the whole title issue thing since I have my house in a trust. There are no judgments.Something the title company can easily find out. I mean isnt that there job to search and make sure there is clear title?????? When I started asking too many questions and asking for stuff in writing about the requirements, I was told I would be denied for HAMP and could seek out an in-house mod.
HAMP requirements appear to be more stringent, probably why they are pushing people to in-house mods.More hoops to jump thru and more paperwork required for HAMP mods. Although I could see this whole judgment thing becoming an issue on in-house mods too.

[snapple candy]

With the FANNIE directive its not just cc but a rollup if over 20K. Yet seems has not been an issue since few reports here.

Dave, I am wondering if this will be another tool for the lenders to use as an excuse to push you toward in-house mods? I mean the lawyers and bean counters for the lenders have had well over 6mth to study the directives to figure out way to creatively deny people HAMP mods? Nawwww Im not cynical am I?

[justdeb]

just found this thread...

Okay - so... we just got our perm mod paperwork last night for HAMP, and it has a section in there (section J) that states about searching the title and I cannot find the answer anywere - surprisingly. So my questions are: Are we going to be required to have a title company process this mod to verify our 1st is in the first lien position, and if so, does that delay the permenant modification process? Are we now required to have Mortgage insurance due to this, and if so, there isn’t anything in the modification that pertains to that – will it be adjusted? We do not have it now as we were not required to.

We do have a 2nd (did an 80/20 to purchase the house) but PNC knows this already and there are no other liens against the property. Shouldnt all of this been done BEFORE a Perm Mod was offered?

This is all so confusing... does anyone know?

[donnac]

Who holds your mortgage and who is the investor on the loan

[justdeb]

Who holds your mortgage and who is the investor on the loan

PNC and Fannie /US Treasury is the investor

[naulster]

Hi Fed Up:
I have a question and I hope you are willing to give me a moment of your time. I have a $729,000 loan with Indymac and it's assessed at $250,000. I took out this loan about three years ago. I qualified for HAMP trial payments which since I was current required four payments. I'm half way through and have two more to go (Feb & March. Here's my problem that scares me. In the last year or so I got involved in a law suit and lost. The judgement was for $230,000. Of course, as I understand it, anyway you look at it, that $230K judgement is subordinate to my $729,000 1st. I further understand that if the judgement creditor wants to lien my house, he's going to have to wait for the Indymac Loan to be paid off, and at 40 years, that propbably won't happen in my lifietime. Do you think there's anyway that this judgemet, if it's found by another title search or credit check could ruin my mod? Like I mentioned, I'm already approved for payments and half way through. Furthermore, I heard that after June 2011, HAMP had to run all your credit, tax returns, P&L (self employed) and titile. I further understand that at that point, after I make my four payments, I get my perm mod. Would you be kind enough to give me your thoughts on this. Thank you very much. Naulster