rejected my HAMP loan mod

[tomser]

anybody up there help me


for applying for loan mod the HAMP program , what is the ideal ration or % of income and expenses the lend is looking for approval . Do they strictly follow the guide line of HAMP or depending on lender's own internal guide line - front end ( PITI 31% over )and back end ?? .

how to figure it out front and back end ratio ??? .

PITI is $2977 expense
gross income is $5595 (front end)


PITI plus all the expense is $5827
gross income is$ 5595 ( back end )

Is this acceptable range for the HAMP loan mod ??? I have $232 deficit.


Here is what happened Today I got rejection of the HAMP loan mod on the phone the reason stating that I can afford and my income is $1200 more than expenses . so I told I made some mistake calculating and readjust and fax again . It was like bombshell and deeply disappointed . They might kick me out completely and I have to go foreclosure and to sleep in the cold weather in the street with my wife.

my previous application

PITI was $2977
gross income was $5600

PITI plus all the expenses is $4163
gross in come was $ 5600

Does the lender is more concerned the back end than front end. My loan has just reset to new higher payment from interest only loan that i am not able to afford to pay. i have only social security and a little bit retirement fund . I am retired and no job and my wife has health problems and stay home no income either.

thank you for help

[davephx]

Under the HAMP directives, the only effect on back end ratio is if over like 55% you have to agree to credit counseling. That is ALL no disqualification for HAMP.

But servicers don't seem to be following the directives

[tomser]

Originally Posted by davephx

Under the HAMP directives, the only effect on back end ratio is if over like 55% you have to agree to credit counseling. That is ALL no disqualification for HAMP.

But servicers don't seem to be following the directives

davephx thank you

When I applyed for the loan mod , My newly increased monthly payment is $2678 from $1889 ( interest only option )since this September,2009

my principal and interest was $2678
and tax $ 234 insurance $65 total $2977 ( PITI) and gross $5600

BUT PITI plus all other expenses was total $4163
and gross income was $5600

Today lender told me on the phone I am over more than $1200 income so I am not qualified. can you tell me how to figure front and back test from above numbers. or lender just goes by my total expenses $4163 and total income $5600-----$5600-$4163=$1463 ( $1463 more income than expenses $4163) that is why rejected my mod??

thnak you for your input

[davephx]

In addition to the 31% test etc you would have had to prove you had a "hardship" that can be the only thing I can think of.

The back end Debt to Income is total debt payments including credit cards etc to income. But only effect is to agree to credit counseling if over I think 55%.

Your excess income may have shown you don't have a hardship. In your hardship explanation you should address that. But from just your income/expenses your hardship isn't evident.

[tomser]

Originally Posted by davephx

In addition to the 31% test etc you would have had to prove you had a "hardship" that can be the only thing I can think of.

The back end Debt to Income is total debt payments including credit cards etc to income. But only effect is to agree to credit counseling if over I think 55%.

Your excess income may have shown you don't have a hardship. In your hardship explanation you should address that. But from just your income/expenses your hardship isn't evident.

thank you davephx

here is real thing when I sent hardship letter stating the new payment is too high $2678 to pay from $1889, but then I miscalculated my total expenses should have been $5827 instead of $4163 that caused my income surplus $1400 instead of $ 230 deficit
what is your opinion if I correct my expese and resubmit , they take it ok for approval

thnak you your input

[davephx]

As I recall for the hardship you have to explain why you can't afford new payment, i.e. drop in income, medical expenses etc.

I believe the explanation is just as or more important than the budget which I assume you can correct and resubmit but I there are no specific directives I recall discussing that issue.

[tomser]

Originally Posted by davephx

As I recall for the hardship you have to explain why you can't afford new payment, i.e. drop in income, medical expenses etc.

I believe the explanation is just as or more important than the budget which I assume you can correct and resubmit but I there are no specific directives I recall discussing that issue.

davephx thanks

My hardhsip letter I have no job, and my on interest only payment has just rest to higher monthly payment I am not able to afford to pay due to higher inceased monthly payment and my only income retirment fund will be depleted real soon for higher monthly payment ( reduction of income and medical bill higher ) unless loan mod. Is this ok for eligibility

[davephx]

That certainly sounds like a very legitimate hardship to me.

Probably some clerk has about 1000 applications a day on his/her desk. May have seen the big monthly surplus and quickly concluded no hardship without reading to closely hardship explanation.

Sadly sometimes denials defy reason and appeal process or finding out detailed reasons. They are just too swamped moving so much paperwork each day.

[tomser]

Originally Posted by davephx

That certainly sounds like a very legitimate hardship to me.

Probably some clerk has about 1000 applications a day on his/her desk. May have seen the big monthly surplus and quickly concluded no hardship without reading to closely hardship explanation.

Sadly sometimes denials defy reason and appeal process or finding out detailed reasons. They are just too swamped moving so much paperwork each day.

hi davephx

My case taken over by the executive specialist in presidental office for loan mod and he said he didnt have time in detail to see my paper but seems my income is too high to qualify so I told there must be some error I will resubmit aftere readjusting it . any comment

[davephx]

IF HAMP I don't recall any income "too high to qualify" as long as pass 31%, NPV and have hardship and mortgage not over the $7XXK limit.

Unless somehow the NPV test screens for too high income and the amount is secret. How frustrating.

[tomser]

Originally Posted by davephx

IF HAMP I don't recall any income "too high to qualify" as long as pass 31%, NPV and have hardship and mortgage not over the $7XXK limit.

Unless somehow the NPV test screens for too high income and the amount is secret. How frustrating.

davephx

can you comment on this one i did new adjustment the expenses
my total incomw is $5600 and total expenses is $6174--defiecit is $580

is this $580 defiecit acceptable range for HAMP loan mod

[davephx]

tomser - This is the biggest area I am very unclear on.

According to the guidelines there is no budget test other than if your total debts are more than 55% get credit counseling.

Yet the budget thing is in the old and new HAMP forms and is asked when they put you on the initial trial. It may have something to do with the NPV test and the likelyhood of redefault but that is pure speculation on my part.

Pre HAMP, I have been told by a mod person that they liked to see a small surplus like maybe 200 but not too much. But this was for inhouse mods before HAMP.

That makes me think if the budget is critical it is an internal mode not HAMP but am totally unclear and confused on this issue.

I just looked at my NACA budget the gal "adjusted" for me. It shows exactly a $200 surplus. It is accurate and will use it for final mod papers.

[tomser]

Originally Posted by davephx

In addition to the 31% test etc you would have had to prove you had a "hardship" that can be the only thing I can think of.

The back end Debt to Income is total debt payments including credit cards etc to income. But only effect is to agree to credit counseling if over I think 55%.

Your excess income may have shown you don't have a hardship. In your hardship explanation you should address that. But from just your income/expenses your hardship isn't evident.

yes i got councelling from HuD approved from spring borad

[mom_of_two]

Hi davephx

I know its too much to ask, but if possible, can you post your budget adjusted by NACA. I understand that everyone's budget is different, but it will give some direction. thanks

[davephx]

mom - it seems the most important factor in the budget is a slight surplus. Mine worked on and massaged by NACA had a $200 surplus.

[mom_of_two]

davephx - Thank you
But do they question on cable bill or cell phone bills, my cable bill is 200 (includes cable, landline and internet), and teenage daughter's cell phone bill is around 80. My gross is 5865 (do they prefer certain percentage of the income to certain bills?)
Thanks again for the advice

[davephx]

I don't think the care much about each item only the net bottom line. It is common to have high cable bills since can also include landline etc like yours.

[dan m]

HAMP Support Center at support@hmpadmin.com or 1-866-939-4469

i dont know if this number is just for servicers but they may have some answers


fha loans have a back end- The back end debt to income ratio must not exceed 55 percent

[mom_of_two]

Sdavephx ...so, I should deduct 31% towards PITI from my net income, and then budget the remaining amoaunt with $200 surplus

[davephx]

I believe that is correct. The idea is you can adjust your budget and sometimes NACA will come up with suggestions. In my case my food budget was reasonable when Hope related counselor did it but NACA said I need to buy cheaper food and get by on less and used a revised food figure in the budget. So they make recommendations on changes in lifestyle to justify the budget they submit. They are not just manipulating numbers without a sound basis.

[mom_of_two]

davephx

Thanks a lot

PS: my apology for misspelling your name in my earlier post

[tomser]

Originally Posted by davephx

I don't think the care much about each item only the net bottom line. It is common to have high cable bills since can also include landline etc like yours.

hi davephx thank you for help

I readjusted my expenses such that -- I deducted over 30% PITIA from my gross income then budgeted to the rest of expenses with adding $200 surplus;
total income $5595 and total expenses $5395 --$200 surplus
Is something pretty close to range
to accept for loan mod


I appreciate it

tomser

[davephx]

The budget is only one factor and is part of the NPV test. But the slight surplus is what most consultants are recommending. Another one that has a website to buy her book and free phone help says the same thing. Before HAMP with internal mods the budget was even more important she told me.

Most of us here already know what her e-book has and some of the info is outdated pre-HAMP some of it, but I had a nice e-mail discussion with her.

[cachase]

davephx - is this surplus is calculated as Gross - expenses.

Is there no place for taxes or net.

My Gross is 9000 if I include my wife's salary (optional) it will be 13600

My PITI on primary home is 6456 (47.5% of 13.6k)

I have second home rental (but vacant now) with PITI is 3403

So as per your comments in this thread to have 200 surplus should I have my expenses 7k.

But I am affraid at the end if they say after considering taxes your expenses are too much.

Any comments.

[davephx]

On another thread (can't keep straight) I mention on the new "streamlined" HAMP form the only expenses are related to debt to do the back-end DTI which over 55% only requires counseling. The detail budget is not on the new form at least the one issued by HAMP on 10/8/09.

As you have seen there is no place for taxes and confusing if gross or net on various versions of budget forms. NACA budget has both but totally confusing and don't think servicers are using this anyway.

But if you have a budget form it seems somehow... to have a small surplus. The budget use to be very important pre HAMP. Or it still may for an internal mod.

All the various forms and updates are very confusing