Old 11-03-2009, 12:57 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

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Originally Posted by worrywart1 View Post
Actually jj, it was a thread that davephx posted on why mods are being denied...

Modify My House Payment - Loan Modifications

Please know that you shouldn't have to pay someone to modify your loan or pay a fee to have them submit the paperwork for you. The site referenced was more so for informational purposes.

I hope this helps.
Very informative page. I do feel like the bottleneck is in the NPV. Why else would it go from Approved to Denied after they received the BPO back?


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Old 11-04-2009, 07:43 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

It is true that an Implode blogger originally wrote the info on that page of our website (I wrote the rest), it is about 3 months old and I am contemplating a rewrite as we speak.
I will say that 'promotion' is not what we need right now, we are turning down cases at present until we get caught up. I do all the work myself, (I'm an old financial advisor)with the help of 2 Missouri/Illinois Attorneys, 2 paralegal types, and a Rat Terrier (my spiritual advisor). He lets me know that I am supposed to give u guys info for free and for fun when I can.

The REAL TRUTH is that the servicers don't care that much about the individual customer economics, they are very much concerned about their own economic survival.
Their decisions are pretty much dictated day to day based on their perception of their own economics.

The best you can do is present your case in a format that can at least be considered; they only care about income. Otherwise never give em another nickel and be ready and willing to walk.

The first article is exactly right.....

If you really want to know what is going on read:

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Government and Lender Policies of Fear and Shame Help Keep Homeowners Debt Slaves

and I am quoted in Business Week here:

Short Sales: A Fraying Lifeline for Homeowners - BusinessWeek
Trust me, as soon as they sniffed $ in the 401, they figure to take a shot at holding your feet to the fire. Don't try to make sense of their diversion tactics.

We are now into the phase of filing for and obtaining TRO's on the basis of

1) Servicer is contracted to Freddie/Treasury to offer mods and

2) MERS has no standing to foreclose ("Where's the @$@^# note!)
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:59 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

For the TRO I assume your in a judicial state.

I was told in a non judeical to get a TRO would cost up front at least $25,000 and that was just to get to Discovery. And the cause could take years while they would probably sell and foreclose long before case settled.

Do you have a reasonably priced attorney but only in your state, or may you are an attorney.

To me this is another huge unfair issue that to get any standing in Court especially if non judicial requires huge attorney fees which of course if we could afford we would not be in this position.

Your MERS issue is stronger than for us without it. I did see MERS somewhere on my original docs but doing the look up on their site with my address nothing showing and no MERS reference on foreclosure paperwork.
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:45 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

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Originally Posted by JJsFrustration View Post
It sure seems like I may have to go this route and stop making payments. I'm hoping that since this person said she was sending it to Loss Mit, that I'll get some positive news on my next call, but I'm sure not counting on it. I made the October payment on 10/30 so I have the rest of this month to figure out if I should stop making payments. My problem is that if we are unable to modify the loan, we are going to have to sell the house and there's a little bit of equity. I'd hate to have to get involved in the whole foreclosure mess.
Depending on what state you are in, foreclosure doesn't become an issue until you miss 3-4 payments. If you don't make the payments save as much of them as you can so that if you don't get a mod you will at least be able to handle a repayment plan to pay back the payments you defaulted on. Home Affordable has a refi program too, how come you can't refinance? Don't wait on Chase to get back to you, keep in contact with Freddie or contact your local HUD office as Chase hasn't done anything for you to this point. The lender uses your paystubs for your income so unless you make a pitiful check per month you should qualify for something.
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:24 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davephx View Post
For the TRO I assume your in a judicial state.

I was told in a non judeical to get a TRO would cost up front at least $25,000 and that was just to get to Discovery. And the cause could take years while they would probably sell and foreclose long before case settled.

Do you have a reasonably priced attorney but only in your state, or may you are an attorney.

To me this is another huge unfair issue that to get any standing in Court especially if non judicial requires huge attorney fees which of course if we could afford we would not be in this position.

Your MERS issue is stronger than for us without it. I did see MERS somewhere on my original docs but doing the look up on their site with my address nothing showing and no MERS reference on foreclosure paperwork.

Dave!! Missouri is Supremely Non Judicial!! Foreclosure Sale can occur
21 days after the Notice of Trustee Sale is sent!!

The first 2 TRO's we have obtained between the NOTS and the sale date.

Judge was very receptive and immediately ruled in our favor.

The charge was $1200.

And u do have MERS...u just don't know it.

The homeowner always has standing...but does the foreclosing party,

if they are not the note holder?

Who is the lender?

The foreclosure is prohibited until the issues are resolved.

Do u think this might be some real leverage to negotiate?


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Old 11-05-2009, 10:58 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by worrywart1 View Post
Actually jj, it was a thread that davephx posted on why mods are being denied...

Modify My House Payment - Loan Modifications

Please know that you shouldn't have to pay someone to modify your loan or pay a fee to have them submit the paperwork for you. The site referenced was more so for informational purposes.

I hope this helps.
III. The Financial Logic of Walking Away

Before examining why more underwater homeowners are not strategically defaulting, it might be helpful to explore why they should. A textbook premise of economics is that the value of a home, even an owner occupied one, is “the current value of the rent payments that could be earned from renting the property at market prices.”

In other words, when the net cost of buying a home exceeds the net cost of renting, one is better off renting. The equation is not as simple, however, as comparing total mortgage payments to rent payments because home ownership carries certain benefits including tax breaks and the potential for appreciation. Additionally, assuming a non-depreciating market, the portion of the mortgage payment that goes to principle rather than interest will eventually inure to the homeowner at the time of sale. On the flip side, homeownership carries significant costs that renting does not, including maintenance, homeowner’s insurance and substantial transaction costs upon selling.

In calculating whether to buy or rent, a potential homebuyer should compare the net cost of owning to the net cost of renting a similar home over the expected period of occupancy. The costs of owning include the interest-only portion of the loan payment, property taxes, maintenance, homeowners insurance, and transaction costs upon selling, minus the expected appreciation and cumulative tax savings over the planned period of ownership. As a rule of thumb, a potential homebuyer is generally better off renting when the home price exceeds 15 or 16 times the annual rent for comparable homes.

For example, a homeowner who bought an average home in Miami at the peak would have paid around $355,400. That home would now be worth only $198,00038 and, assuming a 5% down payment, the homeowner would have approximately $132,000 in negative equity. He could save approximately $116,000 by walking away and renting a comparable home. Or, he could stay and take 20 years just to recover lost equity – all the while throwing away $1300 a month in net savings that he could invest elsewhere.

The advantage of walking is even starker for the large percentage of individuals who bought more-expensive-than-average homes in the Miami area – or in any bubble market for that matter - in the last five years. Millions of U.S. homeowners could save hundreds of thousands of dollars by strategically defaulting on their mortgages.
Homeowners should be walking away in droves. But they aren’t.

V. The Social Control of the Housing Crisis

Alarmed by the possibility that foreclosures may reach a tipping point, formal federal policy has aimed to stem the tide of foreclosures through programs designed to “reduce household cash flow problems,” such as the Making Home Affordable (MHA) loan modification program and Hope For Homeowners.

In other words, federal policy assumes that homeowners are – for the most part - not “ruthless” and won’t walk away from their mortgages simply because they have negative equity. Most homeowners walk only when they can no longer afford to stay. As evidence of this fact, only 45% of homeowners would walk even if they had $300,000 in negative equity. This percentage drops to 38% among the subset of individuals who believe it is immoral to strategically default on one’s mortgage (a subset to which 87% of homeowners belong).

These numbers suggest that the “moral constraint” is a powerful one indeed – and that, for most people, only the complete inability to afford their mortgage would push them to default. On the other hand, the fact that 63% of “amoral” individuals would default at $300,000 in negative equity, and 59% would do so at $200,000, suggests that federal policy can only proceed on the premise that affordability is the prime consideration as long as the moral and social constraints on foreclosure remain strong.

The government thus has an incentive, along with certain other economic and social institutions interested in limiting the number of foreclosures, in cultivating guilt and shame in those who would contemplate walking away. Similarly, knowing that guilt and shame alone are not enough to prevent many individuals from defaulting once negative equity is extreme, these same institutions have an interest in increasing the perceived cost of foreclosure by cultivating fear of financial disaster for those who contemplate it.

At the political level, government spokespersons, including President Obama, have repeatedly emphasized the virtue of homeowners who have acted “responsibly” in “making their payments each month”. The worst criticism has been reserved, however, for those who would walk away from mortgages that they can afford.

Such individuals are portrayed as obscene, offensive, and unethical, and likened to deadbeat dads who walk out on their children, or those who would have “given up” and just handed over Europe to the ****s.

Indeed, a homeowner contemplating a strategic default would be hard pressed to avoid the message that doing so would place them among the most despicable members of society.

Moreover, a homeowner who turned to any number of credit counseling agencies would also find little sympathy - and much moralizing - should they announce their plan to walk on their “affordable” mortgage. Gail Cunningham of the National Foundation for Credit Counseling declared for example in an interview on NPR: “Walking away from one's home should be the absolute last resort. However desperate a situation might become for a homeowner, that does not relieve us of our responsibilities."

Indeed, the uniform message of both governmental and non-profit counseling agencies (which are typically funded at least in significant part by the financial industry) is that “walking away” is not a responsible choice and should be avoided at all costs.

Social control of would be defaulters is not limited to moral suasion, however. Predominate messages regarding foreclosure also frequently employ fear to persuade homeowners that strategic default is a bad choice. Indeed, almost every media story on those who “walk away from their mortgages” condemns the behavior as immoral and enlists some “expert” to explain that foreclosure is, despite any claims to the contrary, a devastating event.

Similar warnings of disaster pervade the information given to homeowners by HUD-approved housing counseling agencies, such as the following from the Anaheim Housing Counseling Agency:

Losing your home can be the worst and most devastating event to you personally, and your credit history. This is a scenario that you don’t want to occur if you can avoid it! Not only will you lose the comfort of your home and your investment, but a Foreclosure will stay pending on your credit history for as long as 10 years. This will jeopardize your ability to qualify for any future home loan purchases, it may affect your ability to access loans for car purchase and other needed purchases, and loan costs are likely to be higher both in fees and interest paid.

As discussed above, fear alone is a powerful motivator. But guilt and fear in combination are even more potent.

This may be because most individuals have a deep-seated, if ill-defined, sense that if they do “bad things,” bad things will happen to them. Whatever the psychological underpinnings, most people simply do not believe they will escape punishment for their moral transgressions. Guilt and fear of punishment go together.

As explored above, however, there is in fact a huge financial upside to strategic default for seriously underwater homeowners – an upside that is routinely ignored by the media, credit counseling agencies, and other political and economic institutions in “informing” homeowners about the consequences of default. Moreover, the costs of default are not nearly as extreme as these same institutions typically misrepresent them to be. In reality: homeowners face no risk of a deficiency judgment in many states or, regardless of the state, for FHA loans or loans held by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac; even in recourse states, lenders are unlikely to pursue a deficiency judgment because it is economically inefficient to do so; there is no tax liability on “forgiven portions” of home mortgages under current federal tax law in effect until 2012; defaulting on one’s mortgage does not mean that one’s other credit lines will be revoked; and most people can expect to recover from the negative impact of foreclosure on their credit score within a two years (and, meanwhile, two years of poor credit need not seriously impact one’s life).

VI. The Asymmetry of Homeowner and Lender Norms

One obvious response to the above discussion is that society benefits when people honor their financial obligations and behave according to social and moral norms, rather than strictly legal or market norms. This may be true if lenders behaved according to the same social and moral norms. In the case of lender-borrower behavior, however, there is a clear imbalance in placing personal responsibility on the borrower to honor their “promise to pay” in order to relieve the lender of their agreement to take back the home in lieu of payment. Given lenders generally superior knowledge and understanding of both mortgage instruments and valuation of real estate, it seems only fair to hold them to the benefit of their bargain. At a basic level, sound underwriting of mortgage loans requires lenders to ensure that a loan is sufficiently collateralized in the event of default.

As such, historical home prices have hewed nationally to a price-to-annual-rent ratio of roughly 15-to-1. At the peak of the market, however, price-to-rent ratios reached 38-to-1 in the most inflated markets, and the national average reached 23-to-1.

If personal responsibility is the operative value, then lenders who ignored basic economic principles (of which they should have been aware) should bear at least equal responsibility to homeowners for issuing collateralized loans that were far in excess of the intrinsic value of the home.

Moreover, since lenders generally arrange the appraisal (which home buyers must pay for) and home buyers rely upon the lender to ensure the home is worth the purchase price, one might argue that lender should bear much more than 50% responsibility for the bad investment of the homeowner and lender.

Indeed, lenders’ mortgage default risk models have long shown that the loan-to-value ratio is a critical factor in default risk. Lenders relaxed this requirement, however, as credit default models showed that few borrowers were “ruthless,” meaning that few borrowers default as soon as the loan value exceeds the market value of the home.

This is not to say that lenders are solely responsible for the housing run-up and bust, but that they do in fact bear a substantial portion of the blame – and thus should thus bear a substantial portion of the cost. One might argue, in fact, that the value of personal responsibility would require lenders to own up to their share of the blame, and work with underwater homeowners by voluntarily writing off some of the negative equity.

But lenders, of course, do not operate according norms of personal responsibility, and seek instead to maximize profit (or minimize losses). Appealing to this duty, it has been suggested that, given the great cost to lenders of foreclosure, they have an economic incentive to modify loans for homeowners in danger of default.

Recent studies seeking to explain this apparently irrational behavior have shown that lenders are simply operating to maximize profit and minimize losses, just as they would be expected to do.

First, lenders know that borrowers with high credit scores are unlikely to default even at high levels of negative equity. To modify loans for these homeowners would be to throw money away – and to encourage more homeowners to ask for modifications. Second, a significant number of homeowners who temporarily default on their mortgages “self-cure” without any help from their lender – though self cure rates have dropped precipitously in the last two years. Again, to modify the loans of individuals who would otherwise self cure would be to throw away money. Third, homeowners with poor credit, or who end up in arrears because of “triggering events” such as unemployment, divorce, or other financially devastating circumstances are likely to default on the modified loan as well. To modify loans for these individuals is to waste time and risk housing prices falling further before the lender eventually has to foreclosure and sell the property anyway.

Given these economic incentives for the lender, a seriously underwater homeowner with good credit and solid mortgage payment history who responsibly calls his lender to work out a loan modification is likely to be told by his lender that it will not discuss a loan modification until the homeowner is 30 days or more delinquent on his mortgage payment.

The lender is making a bet (and a good one) that the homeowner values his credit score too much to miss a payment and will just give up the idea of a loan modification.

However, if the homeowner does what the lender suggests, misses a payment, and calls back to discuss a loan modification in 30 days, the homeowner is likely to be told to call back when he is 90 days delinquent. In the meantime, the lender will send the borrower a series of strongly-worded notices reminding him of his moral obligation to pay and threatening legal action, including foreclosure and a deficiency judgment, if the homeowner does not bring his mortgage payments current. The lender is again making a bet (and again a good one) that the homeowner will be shamed or frightened into paying their mortgage. If the homeowner calls the lender’s bluff and calls back when he is 90 days delinquent, there is a good possibility that he will be told that his credit score is now so low that he does not qualify for a loan modification.

Most lenders will, in other words, take full advantage of the asymmetry of norms between lender and homeowner and will use the threat of damaging the borrower’s credit score to bring the homeowner into compliance. Additionally, many lenders will only bargain when the threat of damaging the homeowner’s credit has lost its force and it becomes clear to the lender that foreclosure is imminent absent some accommodation. On a fundamental level, the asymmetry of moral norms for borrowers and market norms for lenders gives lenders an unfair advantage in negotiations related to the enforcement of contractual rights and obligations.

*** END OF ARTICLE SNIP ***

There is more in the article including a discussion as to what to do about it all. I do not agree with many of the proposed solutions and indeed the article points out flaws in most of the solutions that have been proposed.

However, I do agree with the basic idea that asymmetry is a huge problem, that the playing field needs to be leveled.

Moreover, I will add that the real moral hazard is attempting to keep people debt slaves by purposely overstating the costs of walking away while ignoring all of the benefits. These "help" agencies are designed to do one thing and one thing only: help the lender regardless of the cost to the homeowner.

If these "help agencies" actually gave a realistic assessment of the advantages of walking away, we would see more willingness for voluntary cooperation between lenders and homeowners to negotiate a mutually beneficial arrangement. Instead we have a one sided winner-take-all approach whereby the only way for the homeowner to win is to walk away.

The current system of offering lenders a few thousand dollars to refinance a loan making the loan "more affordable" does nothing to address the fundamental problem of too much debt that will act as a drag on the economy for a decade to come.

The article concludes ...
Regardless of the precise policy prescription, it is time to put to rest the assumption that a borrower who exercises the option to default is somehow immoral or irresponsible. To the contrary, walking away may be the most financially responsible choice if it allows one to meet one’s unsecured credit obligations or provide for the future economic stability of one’s family.

Individuals should not be artificially discouraged on the basis of “morality” from making financially prudent decisions, particularly when the party on the other side is amorally operating according to market norms and could have acted to protect itself by following prudent underwriting practices.

The current housing bust should be viewed for what it is: a market failure – not a moral failure on the part of American homeowners. That being the case, it is time to take morals out of the picture and search for an equitable solution to the negative equity problem.
Other than a single sentence about "market failure" that was a brilliantly written piece by Brent T. White. The market did not fail, government policies to promote housing in conjunction with loose monetary policies at the Fed is what failed. Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, HUD, the FHA, and the Fed all failed. Every one of those agencies should be abolished.

In the meantime, morality and fear mongering is not the solution. Instead, a rational look at the costs and benefits of walking away will encourage market solutions involving renegotiating debt levels to affordable levels rather than concentrating on affordable payment levels. A focus on the latter will act as a drag on the economy for a decade.

Addendum:

Walking away may be a good thing but laws vary state by state.

This is very important: Please do yourself a favor and Consult An Attorney Before Walking Away. The link will explain why.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:24 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

St.LouisBlues,

What an excellent article! Shows again that there is no ultimate answer between walking and keeping. every case is different!
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:29 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davephx View Post
For the TRO I assume your in a judicial state.

I was told in a non judeical to get a TRO would cost up front at least $25,000 and that was just to get to Discovery. And the cause could take years while they would probably sell and foreclose long before case settled.

Do you have a reasonably priced attorney but only in your state, or may you are an attorney.

To me this is another huge unfair issue that to get any standing in Court especially if non judicial requires huge attorney fees which of course if we could afford we would not be in this position.

Your MERS issue is stronger than for us without it. I did see MERS somewhere on my original docs but doing the look up on their site with my address nothing showing and no MERS reference on foreclosure paperwork.
Davephx, I don't know what state you are in but I'm in a very NON-JUDICIAL state and I have taken a BREACH OF CONTRACT case to court and got not only the TRO but ALSO THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. It has been more like $10K-$12K in legal fees with me doing a bunch of the research online. Now if I had to pay someone to do that research part of the effort, yeah, it could have been a lot higher already. In this case, the rulings are going against the servicer/lender so far. Judge said he expects me to win the case.

They can only look at those nice payments just sitting there in the trust account. The MODIFIED payments. No foreclosure.

Looks like we could have also cited the aspect where Litton is contracted to offer MHA but they chose to claim they could deny a new mod based on the wishes of the investor (They falsely claimed that the investor, BoNY, does not DO mods.) Well, anyhow, the already-signed-by-the-borrower-mod is stumping them for the breach of contract. (And we have not even addressed the breach of AG settlement as yet.)
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:58 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Wow so if I understand you had a signed mod agreement signed by you and the servicer? Than they claim the investor would not do..and falsely.

That I can see as breach of Contract but a bit unique circumstance very unfair to you, but good for you for dealing with it legally
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:26 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

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Originally Posted by davephx View Post
Wow so if I understand you had a signed mod agreement signed by you and the servicer? Than they claim the investor would not do..and falsely.

That I can see as breach of Contract but a bit unique circumstance very unfair to you, but good for you for dealing with it legally
They offered the mod, I signed with notary. They never responded in ANY way that there was a problem with the materials that were submitted with the notarized contract. That becomes a legally-binding contract WITHOUT the servicer's signature. When THEY offer a contract AND it is accepted by the other party, THEY have a NARROW period of time to find any problem AND the TYPE of problem must be pertinent to the contents of the contract. [Basic Contract LAW breach occurs otherwise] The other party must be informed of the problem in a very timely manner, NOT MONTHS LATER. There is even a clause in the contract that states they were to contact me IN WRITING if there was any problem with the documents and then I was to have 10 days to submit replacement or additional documents. THEY NEVER ASKED FOR ANYTHING. I got NUMEROUS verbal assurances that 'all was well' and that the mod was MINE! Even with the transfer of servicing, I NEVER got any letter from BofA notifying me that the mod had any problem.

If anyone gets stuck on that aspect of basic contract law, that signature by the offeror is NOT required, did you realize that many final loan docs are never actually signed by the lender/servicer? That is per a mortgage broker. She had a hoot over the rationalization that was advanced by CW/BofA and Litton. She said that there would be a LOT of mortgages that borrowers could get out of IF that logic was used.

The only way the judge could possibly see that BofA/Litton had to argue was to claim that BofA departments were doing both the mod and the transfer at the same time and the two efforts were not in contact. I had BofA employees tell me that they were told by supervisors not to fix the problem when it was STILL 'fixable' by BofA , even after the servicing transfer date. So that seems to blow one hole in that logic. Also, the 'hired-for-the-day' attorney for BofA admitted that they are not trying to argue that the two actions happened by accident at all. Instead, they are now (finally) saying that they found fault with the documents submitted but that they then FAILED to contact me! Gee, they even had put it in writing in the contract that they WOULD contact me if there was any problem. HOW MANY TIMES CAN THEY BREAK THEIR WORD IN MY CASE? Oh, yeah, they never signed that agreement. So, why was there any statement in the contract that they did not sign about what they were to do if they did not like the documents? Believe it or not, that appears to also show that the contract did not need their signature to be binding, since it also stated what they were to do BEFORE they could refuse to honor the contract.

Can you all say with me, "OOOPS, you got a contract then?"

They are now claiming they found a problem in April but never made any contact with me about it until we were in court with the matter in October? Since no contact occurred in any manner in a timely fashion, are they just back-dating a finding? It is way too late to use that as cause to defend the situation. This shows they had a problem in the proper processing, even aside from the transfer.

Also, Litton knew of the mod existing before I ever told them of it (they used the date of the MOD agreement in 2009 as the date of my NOTE in a preliminary notice of default just one month after they had the servicing in-house).

Also, with the investor being the SAME throughout, that elliminates the argument that the left-hand did not know what the right hand was doing, since the 'brain' (investor) was the same. The way I see it, the 'brain' (investor) seems to want to tell the servicers to break the contract.

Since we also approached Litton to do an MHA mod, which they denied saying, falsely, that BoNY does not do mods, and that keeps Litton from getting a payment from the government AND puts them into non-compliance with their own agreement to participate in the MHA program, WHAT could be motivating Litton to do this unless it is the investor?

Fannie Mae will be checking up on HUD to find these situations of companies like Litton signing up for MHA and then NOT complying. (that is Fannie's role even on non-fannie loans per my information)
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Old 11-07-2009, 07:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Wow, you certainly have quite a case.

It is Freddie not Fannie that has the oversight authority.
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:40 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

St.LB,
Great article, and thanks for sharing your knowledge.
You educated us how all of this works behind the scenes.
I am very appreciative.
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:40 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

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Originally Posted by davephx View Post
Wow, you certainly have quite a case.

It is Freddie not Fannie that has the oversight authority.
I'm not the only one with the identical case. Although the pre-NOD letter with the 'wrong' date may be unique to mine. There also are MANY of these contracts that BofA issued but refused to honor where they did not even transfer them, but proceeded to take payments matching the mod, then threatened foreclosure saying the mod never was implemented. They typically waited until the difference they could claim was more than $10K which they wanted IMMEDIATELY, along with all further payments being the original sum. Oh, and the payments were meanwhile reported to the credit bureaus as late or partial payments. Just another NICE little touch from Shank America. These are all cases involving the 'AG mods' and have led to court cases filed in several states to date. (Filed:FL, OH, CA, with AZ, NE, VA cases likely to file and CA has more cases coming.)

Can you get me a number for the way to report the MHA problem to Freddie? I was given phone numbers with both Freddie and Fannie by my US Representative's office, but the Freddie Mac number was answered by someone who denied that Freddie had any oversite in this situation. They claimed to only have involvement with loans funded by Freddie, not the oversight of the HUD MHA program. They pointed to Fannie as I recall (and according to my notes).

US Senator Barbara Boxer's office is also inquiring into my case. I'm not sure of which aspects they are working but they did call to acquire the original CountryWide loan number. The complaint to the senator's office spelled out the full picture and the form asks what agencies you need help with. I listed quite a few that I know are involved such as OCC, HUD, etc. I also questioned if there was any involvment of lending regulations/enforcement agenies that were separate from OCC and HUD.

I also mentioned in that complaint that my case was not an isolated case but is part of a sizeable group of contracts BofA has breached.
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:33 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

All good points.. especially in AG states involved in the lawsuit.

Geeze Freddie and Fannie passing the oversght back and forth. I don't have contact phones but this is where I get the Freddie comment. Freddie is said to be "compliance agent for HAMP"

From page 32 of 66 near top "Second Look Process"
FINANCIAL STABILITY OVERSIGHT BOARD
QUARTERLY REPORT TO CONGRESS
For the quarter ending
September 30, 2009

During the quarterly period, Treasury directed Freddie Mac in its role as compliance agent for HAMP to ensure that eligible homeowner applications are not overlooked and that homeowners are not inadvertently denied a modification. Under the program’s guidelines, servicers cannot choose which loans to modify or deny assistance to borrowers but are required to service all eligible loans in their portfolio and make reasonable efforts to obtain waivers of any limits on participation. Freddie Mac is developing a “second look” process to audit a sample of applications which have been denied and ensure that the denials were proper. The “second look” program also evaluates non-performing loan portfolios of participating servicers to identify eligible borrowers that should have been solicited for a modification. Based on the audit results, Freddie Mac is working with servicers, where problems arise, to address deficiencies and work with servicers to make operational improvements where errors in application rejections prove to be systemic.

See
FINANCIAL STABILITY OVERSIGHT BOARD QUARTERLY REPORT TO CONGRESS



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Old 11-07-2009, 10:32 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

FDIC has the npv on their site, but the banks aren't using this formula i'm sure or they wouldn't be getting sued to make it public

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Old 11-08-2009, 02:26 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davephx View Post
All good points.. especially in AG states involved in the lawsuit.

Geeze Freddie and Fannie passing the oversght back and forth. I don't have contact phones but this is where I get the Freddie comment. Freddie is said to be "compliance agent for HAMP"

From page 32 of 66 near top "Second Look Process"
FINANCIAL STABILITY OVERSIGHT BOARD
QUARTERLY REPORT TO CONGRESS
For the quarter ending
September 30, 2009

During the quarterly period, Treasury directed Freddie Mac in its role as compliance agent for HAMP to ensure that eligible homeowner applications are not overlooked and that homeowners are not inadvertently denied a modification. Under the program’s guidelines, servicers cannot choose which loans to modify or deny assistance to borrowers but are required to service all eligible loans in their portfolio and make reasonable efforts to obtain waivers of any limits on participation. Freddie Mac is developing a “second look” process to audit a sample of applications which have been denied and ensure that the denials were proper. The “second look” program also evaluates non-performing loan portfolios of participating servicers to identify eligible borrowers that should have been solicited for a modification. Based on the audit results, Freddie Mac is working with servicers, where problems arise, to address deficiencies and work with servicers to make operational improvements where errors in application rejections prove to be systemic.

See
FINANCIAL STABILITY OVERSIGHT BOARD QUARTERLY REPORT TO CONGRESS

Thanks, Davephx.

Regarding the 'AG-states': The settlement actually states that the modification contracts are to be offered NATIONWIDE, not just in the states where the Attorney Generals joined in the suit against CountryWide.

On the HAMP/MHA oversight: I'll try to give it another 'whirl'. The Senator's office may be hitting that anyway but given the list of different problems in evidence AND the additional ones that are suspected (attempted insurance fraud by the investor-trustee), I'm proding the agencies I can identify with a direct report. Certainly the Senator's office may be able to hit more of the 'hot buttons' with each involved agency, but I just don't want any of them to get missed completely.

I'll just make sure to lift Litton's comment from their response to the my law suit along with the comments we got from the HOPE-assigned MMI negotiator. The suit response basically states that no one is 'entitled' to a mod. The MMI negotiator signed off on the false assertion by Litton that investor-bank BoNY does not allow modifications. That will get BOTH Litton AND MMI AND HUD onto the carpet with whichever agency that DOES have oversight.

Put those two reponses from Litton together and they come off as cold and calculating. Now why would servicer-Litton be better off to foreclose, passing on the benefits paid to the servicer for each loan involved in MHA/HAMP? Why risk the non-compliance with the HAMP/MHA program that Litton is enrolled in? Why make a claim to MMI about the investor over-ruling ALL mods when BoNY is KNOWN to allow modifications? Is there a smell of another motivation such as an investor-paid insurance contract on the pooled Asset-Backed Security certificate?
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:22 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by so-cal-gal View Post
Thanks, Davephx.

Regarding the 'AG-states': The settlement actually states that the modification contracts are to be offered NATIONWIDE, not just in the states where the Attorney Generals joined in the suit against CountryWide.

On the HAMP/MHA oversight: I'll try to give it another 'whirl'. The Senator's office may be hitting that anyway but given the list of different problems in evidence AND the additional ones that are suspected (attempted insurance fraud by the investor-trustee), I'm proding the agencies I can identify with a direct report. Certainly the Senator's office may be able to hit more of the 'hot buttons' with each involved agency, but I just don't want any of them to get missed completely.

I'll just make sure to lift Litton's comment from their response to the my law suit along with the comments we got from the HOPE-assigned MMI negotiator. The suit response basically states that no one is 'entitled' to a mod. The MMI negotiator signed off on the false assertion by Litton that investor-bank BoNY does not allow modifications. That will get BOTH Litton AND MMI AND HUD onto the carpet with whichever agency that DOES have oversight.

Put those two reponses from Litton together and they come off as cold and calculating. Now why would servicer-Litton be better off to foreclose, passing on the benefits paid to the servicer for each loan involved in MHA/HAMP? Why risk the non-compliance with the HAMP/MHA program that Litton is enrolled in? Why make a claim to MMI about the investor over-ruling ALL mods when BoNY is KNOWN to allow modifications? Is there a smell of another motivation such as an investor-paid insurance contract on the pooled Asset-Backed Security certificate?

you can file for discovery on what and when insurance payments were made and to whom; and make a case that the # number of $ owed is incorrect..

that they may be receiving double payment


GL

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Old 11-10-2009, 01:21 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

We are in NO CA & know of two people w/Chase loans that got the temporary modification. Actually the one person they lowered their principle by $250,000. Also they stopped making mortgage payments for a couple months, paid it on the 3rd month. Hope this helps, don't give up.... Alexis
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:38 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Keep fighting for it. Be sure you read the Home Affordable Modification Program guidelines, because they make it pretty clear that a lot of ppl should be granted modification. The banks don't seem to be as keen.

Wells Fargo turned me down, and even changed my true numbers to false ones to substantiate turning me down, but I trucked on... not that I'm totally successful to date.

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Old 11-11-2009, 12:45 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyHAMP View Post
Although I don't know how this political crap is helpful in any way, I don't recall Bush's "help for homeowners" program - so I still like Obama much more...
It was the BUSH folks who turned a blind eye to the big getting WAY TOO BIG FOR THEIR BRITCHES, as I recall and gave those with BIG MONEY stepping stones into highly paid, jobs in the Bush administration, which BIG SURPRISE, ended up HURTING THE AVERAGE CITIZENS, homeowners in particular.
Unfortunately, they are already TOO BIG for the government to NOW handle appropriately. As long as there isn't any sort of ENFORCEMENT around making sure people who need help and qualify GET THE HELP, and in a TIMELY way, things will improve for us little. Trial mods ending in denials aren't helping.
And then there are 50 different states with varying levels of PROTECTIONS for the homeowner who is in foreclosure. MA is terrible. We still have archaic laws about how we get to KEEP our fishing poles, gee thanks, I might need it, when I join the tent city under the NINE MILLION DOLLAR FOOTBRIDGE that the Commonwealth, in it's wisdom is building, now that they have CUT FUNDING FOR THE HOMELESS by about 20%, resulting in shelters being unable to meet the EVERGROWING NEEDS of EVERGROWING NUMBERS OF FAMILIES WHO ARE LOSING THEIR HOMES, with NO PROTECTION FROM THE COMMONWEALTH.
That said, there is NO DOUBT that the Obama Administration will do a better job of looking out for the average American than the former administration ever did. It is too bad that the immense PROBLEMS that got created by republican right wingers, will probably be too large to solve anytime soon and when people voted for "CHANGE" we did mean "NOW!' and it is not happening FAST enough to help many who were already sinking.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:40 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: Loan Modification Denied Today! SEVERELY FRUSTRATED!

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Originally Posted by litton nightmares View Post
It was the BUSH folks who turned a blind eye to the big getting WAY TOO BIG FOR THEIR BRITCHES, as I recall and gave those with BIG MONEY stepping stones into highly paid, jobs in the Bush administration, which BIG SURPRISE, ended up HURTING THE AVERAGE CITIZENS, homeowners in particular.
Unfortunately, they are already TOO BIG for the government to NOW handle appropriately. As long as there isn't any sort of ENFORCEMENT around making sure people who need help and qualify GET THE HELP, and in a TIMELY way, things will improve for us little. Trial mods ending in denials aren't helping.
And then there are 50 different states with varying levels of PROTECTIONS for the homeowner who is in foreclosure. MA is terrible. We still have archaic laws about how we get to KEEP our fishing poles, gee thanks, I might need it, when I join the tent city under the NINE MILLION DOLLAR FOOTBRIDGE that the Commonwealth, in it's wisdom is building, now that they have CUT FUNDING FOR THE HOMELESS by about 20%, resulting in shelters being unable to meet the EVERGROWING NEEDS of EVERGROWING NUMBERS OF FAMILIES WHO ARE LOSING THEIR HOMES, with NO PROTECTION FROM THE COMMONWEALTH.
That said, there is NO DOUBT that the Obama Administration will do a better job of looking out for the average American than the former administration ever did. It is too bad that the immense PROBLEMS that got created by republican right wingers, will probably be too large to solve anytime soon and when people voted for "CHANGE" we did mean "NOW!' and it is not happening FAST enough to help many who were already sinking.
You have to be JOKING that you are counting on the BO administration to FIX things? They have only made things WORSE! HAMP is OBAMA's mess. The continued bailouts are OBAMA's. NEITHER party is giving the citizens the protections in the constitution. Remember that Barney Frank (a DEMOCRAT) has had continued control of the committee that oversaw CountryWide and used it to get a VERY special mortgage deal.

Take your political blinders off, please. Both parties deserve to have the incumbants swept out of office as soon as they come up for election.
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