IMB/OWB wont mod me even after forbearance of perfect pay record

[pamelabe]

1st 420k 8.625% IndyMac Bank/One West Bank $3018

taxes: $550mo
2nd 90k 3.5% CU of GA $699
stopped payments on first Feb 09
all credit card and 2nd mort perfect pay on time
9 homes are up for sale in neighborhood - none have sold in 9 mos

I just got word from Ken Germann, Escalations Loan Mod Negociator of Loss Mit of IndyMac/One West Bank that the investor (Wells Fargo) will not modify my home even after 4mos of a 6 mos forbearance plan in which I paid on time perfectly. He said my investor does not allow the pool of loans that mine is in to be modified in any way shape or form. I happened to be in a pool of loans in which they can not modify. This investor has approximately 11 of these pools and it has to do with credit backed securities in which this group of loans was purchased which does not allow them to modify. What??!()*&#%$^#?? I have already flipped out, surviving not only that news after working so hard with every request and countless phone calls since Feb 28 to restucture my loan. The house (basement) since has flooded twice in the Atlanta storms and leaked thru the chimney roof flashing. I am just about at the end of my rope and thinking maybe I should tell them to take their house and shove it!!

I have been soo stressed feeling like this isnt my home since starting this fight that I cant sleep at night with the worrying and waiting all the time. The effort to get ready to face the customer service people at IMB when they ask you for more info or repeat wrong information has completely drained me. After hearing the news I started to become emotionally de-attached from my house that I gutted out and re-built. For a while I didnt know what to do but since the last 3 weeks I have started to do the math as to the alternative in the event they do not modify me at the last minute. I started to look into buying another home for a lot less through seller financing before the foreclosure/deed in leiu goes on my record. I am going to a NACA workshop this Sat and Mon I have my phone appt. I have been fighting this fight all by myself up to now. The only other possible weirdness to my loan is that they were insistant of me being an investor as the appraiser said I started gutting the house too fast and wouldnt appraise as owner occupy because my stuff was pushed to the side when I pulled up the carpet and took out the cabinets. I AM OWNER OCCUPY! If anyone has and other suggestions please let me know. I have also already signed the case action lawsuit against IMB/OWB on this site.

[MyHAMP]

I'm wondering what took them so long to figure out your loan can't be modified in the first place. Shouldn't they check with the investor FIRST before putting you on a trial?!

That would have been my first question after getting these news...

[darkdays]

I am on month 16 of my battle with Indymac so I would appreciate it if you could answer a couple of questions to help me out. Did they offer you the name of your investor or did you have to request it in writing. I was told that my investor is a "private investor" and that info could not be released verbally. I requested the info in writing and am waiting to see if I get a response. Secondly, now that they denied you the modification what are they saying is your next step? Good bye and move on or are they proposing anything else? Did the discuss a repayment plan at all with you and if so, what amount (%) did they tell you would be needed as the deposit? I told the HOPE NOW counselor that Indymac was not even reasonable with regard to repayment plans as they have a 6 month repayment limit and it is not broken up over the six months. She asked the question and she was told the "deposit" I would have to pay would be 100% of the payments I am behind for payment # 1 and the other 5 payments would be to pay back additional interest, fees, etc.

[pamelabe]

I shot back at Ken Germann and asked those questions and this is what he rudely said, "You are incorrect, as you were in default when I , not "they" placed you on a forbearance payment to give you time to decide what to do with the property. You were were notified then that you didtn qualify and you may not have any mod options later. I did inform that you may need to find an alternative way to cure the default a the end of the repayment plan if you do not qualify. You were given a huge favor releiving you of your payment during this time by almost cutting the payment in half. It gave us time to reivew for any other options while you made resuced payments while avoiding foreclosure sale.

If you are not able to afford the property then you should list and sell the property as a rsponsible home owner. Not everyone qualifies for those programs. You cant afford the interest only payemtn, let alone the true cost to own this property which is principal and interest and escrows at 8.625%. The investor took a huge risk by loaning you the money for this property on your stated income in which you do not have the money to repay now. You may want to educate yourself in security backed investments as this is way the mortgage industry operates. You should be grateful for the hlep that you have recieved but take the responsibility as I unable to educate or help you any more than I have tried."

I will not corresponde with someone who talks to me that way. A broker freind of mine said he is full of crap. I dont know what to believe but my current forbearance payments of $1850 are very duable for me at this time, not fun but duable.

[pamelabe]

They never offer you any information. I found that you have to figure out everything yourself. My house has been in foreclosure twice even when I have been under their forbearance contract because of their sloppy work. They didnt notify me of the foreclosure the law office did and they did not help me in anyway until I figured it out to get the house unlisted from the newspaper and officially out of foreclosure. So... I asked who my investor was and they told me to ask in writing and I did. I have to send it in not fax. The investor is Wells Fargo Bank.

They are not proposing anything else other than paying them back with back pay and late fees totally 33k. I do not have that money and I can not afford to go back and pay 3018 monthly plus 550 for taxes every month. Im not sure what my ulitmate path is but my next step is working with NACA and see if they can help. If NACA says no after working my numbers honestly then I will probably walk after trying to sell it. The worry and fight has worn me down. I am very sad. But in my heart I still think something is not right with IMB answer or moral beacon so for now I continue to fight.

I just confirmed with them the numbers they are using to make thier judgement and they were wrong so I re-submitted my mod request again and now Im under review. Although I am not positive doing mod without NACA or the like, it does perhaps keep me afloat a bit longer.

[imlars]

Originally Posted by pamelabe

They never offer you any information. I found that you have to figure out everything yourself. My house has been in foreclosure twice even when I have been under their forbearance contract because of their sloppy work. They didnt notify me of the foreclosure the law office did and they did not help me in anyway until I figured it out to get the house unlisted from the newspaper and officially out of foreclosure. So... I asked who my investor was and they told me to ask in writing and I did. I have to send it in not fax. The investor is Wells Fargo Bank.

They are not proposing anything else other than paying them back with back pay and late fees totally 33k. I do not have that money and I can not afford to go back and pay 3018 monthly plus 550 for taxes every month. Im not sure what my ulitmate path is but my next step is working with NACA and see if they can help. If NACA says no after working my numbers honestly then I will probably walk after trying to sell it. The worry and fight has worn me down. I am very sad. But in my heart I still think something is not right with IMB answer or moral beacon so for now I continue to fight.

I just confirmed with them the numbers they are using to make thier judgement and they were wrong so I re-submitted my mod request again and now Im under review. Although I am not positive doing mod without NACA or the like, it does perhaps keep me afloat a bit longer.

IndyMac is not doing any modifications except the HAMP. They will only offer a temporary forebearance or a 6 month repayment plan to those who are 3 months or more behind. You can go to MakingHomeAffordable.com and they have look up tools for you to find out if your loan is a Fannie or Freddie

[pamelabe]

My loan is neither Fannie or Freddie. So is that what they are referring to "my pool of loans" wont be modified?

[AZOwner]

I am so sorry to hear about your fight.

The only suggestion that I can offer you is to not fight this battle alone. We are organizing to take action on behalf of loansafe members and our goal is to be able to do just that.

As Moe has recorded for us in different posts. NACA began as a group and they visited the homes of bank execs in protest. The key is the group organized and began to campaign as a unit, and then they were a force to be dealt with -- and they have made some powerful deals that have helped tousands.

Please volunteer to represent your state in the thread below. And let's do something together, with the thought of being a powerful force that demands the assistance we are entitled to as a result of the fraud and crimes committed against homeowners over the last 3-4 years.

Step up!

Blessings,
AZ

[darkdays]

I am not surprised when you confirmed your numbers they were wrong. That's been the basis of my denial 3 times now. First, income too low, then too high and now too low again. All 3 times the numbers are wrong and there have been no changes to my income so they can't claim to be confused.

I wrote to Brandon Latman, whose email I found on this site, and I received a weird letter from Indymac today in response to my "inquiry." It said that they had respectfully requested that I provide adequate information for my financials and I have provided that information now so my request has been placed under review. WHAT??? I thought I had already received a reply to my inquiry. They denied me! I have spoken to them about 7 times since sending that email and each time am reminded (as if I don't already know) that this account is in foreclosure and your mod was denied so you better agree to a short sale. I did re-apply through a HUD counselor and they claim they never received the application. They just confirmed they received it yesterday.

The letter also said "There is no assurance that a permanent modification will be AVAILABLE OR OFFERED." Is that like buying a ticket to a show? They don't know if anymore HAMPs will be available??? Are they running out of HAMPs???? These people are too ridiculous. What is really funny is they send me their form letters denying my modifications and send them out regular mail but this dummy actually wasted money sending me this moronic letter by overnight delivery.

[pamelabe]

Great that you are being reviewed again. I am being reviewed again but I am not confident because every corner there is huge disappointment and irrational logic. I must have sent all my required docs 8-10 times by now. Its like playing the bop game. When one doc needs to be updated because they sit on them too long or shred them then another doc pops up to be sent in again. The majic 5 are: hardship letter, P&L, paystubs, 4506T form & 08 taxes. I have a very special reaction when they tell me that I have provided them with outdated material. And I really love it when they ask me if I am calling in to take care of my debt and pay in full when Im under their proposed binding contract. My super favorite is when they ask me nearly everyother phone call why did I fall behind.

The last really sick joke they did to me and Im sure many others is they sent out denial letters by mistake. Did you get one of those? They even called me to let me know it was a mistake then only weeks later confirm that one of them was correct!!!

I have not written anyone yet but I will do so once I work thru NACA on next Monday. I plan to write my congressman, Thrift Supervision, call the newspaper, write Brandon Latman, the CEO of Wells Fargo, the executive group and call the White House.

Do you think I should work thru NACA, HUD and Hope Now, a lawyer all at once? And still Id like to get others opinions as to why was my loan rejected? Was it because its not Freddie or Fannie? Can anyone guess from my story?

[pamelabe]

Went to NACA workshop which was great. They told me to call Wells Fargo CEO and stick with it. I have my phone meeting with them tomorrow am and now I just heard on the news that Wells is in Atlanta for a Home Preservation Workshop at the GA World Congress Center Oct 26-28th. Anyone have any luck going to this and working with them in person? Im going to at least get in their face.

[ChrissyF1214]

PamelaBE - The same thing happened to me with Indy I was told that my 2nd mortgage is "pooled" and that those investors don't modify loans? I guess that means we can't get help because they aren't Fannie Mae or Freddie loans? That's such b/s & really pi$$ses me off. Not sure what my next step. Does anyone know what we should do? Is this just it, we can't do anything? My mortgage is at 8.875%!

[darkdays]

I spoke with someone in the escalations department and asked her if I am determined to be eligible are they then going to use the old "investor won't approve it" line? You should be able to determine up front based on who the investor is whether they are approving mods or not and if not, let the borrower know so we can move on to our next plan. She said it is possible that the investor won't approve it and claimed they won't know until they put the package together for the investor. If there are investors who are not approving any mods they know that up front so should stop wasting time. I don't get why if someone has 2 mortgages those lenders don't work simultaneously to work out a mod on both. It makes no sense to go through all the work on one mod and not give the borrow help on the second because if the second is foreclosed upon what difference did the 1st mortgage mod make? I can't imagine the stress of having to apply for a mod on 2 different loans.

[pamelabe]

Hi Darkdays and Chrissy:

I am planning on doing something. If they do not work with me it will be more painful for them than me. I have started to look at other homes in the event that I chose to buy from seller financing before the "F" word goes on my record. So I am working both ends of the pendulem and getting as informed as possible as to my choices before my last foreclosure payment on Dec 15th.

I have started to think that the possible reason is the investors want to move on and take advantage of other deals in the market and be released from not making the greedy numbers they are with us. My second loan is with my credit union who has been nice to me and has said they will subodinate to the first with a refi. This is entirely IMB and Wells F. I did not go to the Home Preservation because NACA told me to call IMB to double check Wells would talk to me and as it turns out they said no so I didnt go. My next appt with NACA to finish my numbers with them will be Nov 4th. Then I understand NACA will send on electronically my offer and see if either moran will agree to work with me. I can pay a mortgage and a decent size one but in comparison to the agreescious amount of 3018 (not including taxes) I can not. I dont believe they are will but I have now joined to 2 class action lawsuits and will persue it to the end.

[caldwellb02]

Pamelabe - credit unions are the way to go! Whatever you do, I wish you luck. And please sign the petition:

PETITION TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FROM AMERICAN HOMEOWNERS | Petition2Congress |

[pamelabe]

Done! Thanks for letting me know.

[darkdays]

Originally Posted by pamelabe

Hi Darkdays and Chrissy:

I am planning on doing something. If they do not work with me it will be more painful for them than me. I have started to look at other homes in the event that I chose to buy from seller financing before the "F" word goes on my record. So I am working both ends of the pendulem and getting as informed as possible as to my choices before my last foreclosure payment on Dec 15th.

I have started to think that the possible reason is the investors want to move on and take advantage of other deals in the market and be released from not making the greedy numbers they are with us. My second loan is with my credit union who has been nice to me and has said they will subodinate to the first with a refi. This is entirely IMB and Wells F. I did not go to the Home Preservation because NACA told me to call IMB to double check Wells would talk to me and as it turns out they said no so I didnt go. My next appt with NACA to finish my numbers with them will be Nov 4th. Then I understand NACA will send on electronically my offer and see if either moran will agree to work with me. I can pay a mortgage and a decent size one but in comparison to the agreescious amount of 3018 (not including taxes) I can not. I dont believe they are will but I have now joined to 2 class action lawsuits and will persue it to the end.

Did you see the list of visitors to the White House from inauguration day through July, 2009? George Soros visited the White House 4 times in 7 months. We're screwed :-)

[pamelabe]

I am wondering if IMB at what dollar point will they mod me? For instance, the customer service person told me a few weeks back the investor may have denied my mod because with my current number submittals that my mortgage payment to them would only be 900mo and possible it was too low for them and theyd rather get the house back instead. My question is does anyone know what the threshold is? How low is too low? My current mortgage with them is 3018 (without 500 mo taxes).

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by pamelabe

I am wondering if IMB at what dollar point will they mod me? For instance, the customer service person told me a few weeks back the investor may have denied my mod because with my current number submittals that my mortgage payment to them would only be 900mo and possible it was too low for them and theyd rather get the house back instead. My question is does anyone know what the threshold is? How low is too low? My current mortgage with them is 3018 (without 500 mo taxes).

That should be determined by the NPV. Every case is different.

[darkdays]

I'm thinking $900 is too low. Reason being the investor will make no money if your payment is cut by 66% which bring us to MyHAMP's saying that should be determined by the NPV. MyHamp is correct because the $900 won't pass the npv. Did you try the FDIC excel npv worksheet? It's outdated and you have to change the floor percentage from 3% to 2% but if you don't change any other values since we don't know what the banks are using, you should get a vague idea. If 31% of your income is $900 your gross is about $3000? Then your current payment (without taxes) is more than 100% of your gross? Factor in utilities and other household expenses like home owners insurance and the numbers won't work out. Do you have another person living in your household that contributes to the expenses? That will get your income up.

[imlars]

Originally Posted by pamelabe

I am wondering if IMB at what dollar point will they mod me? For instance, the customer service person told me a few weeks back the investor may have denied my mod because with my current number submittals that my mortgage payment to them would only be 900mo and possible it was too low for them and theyd rather get the house back instead. My question is does anyone know what the threshold is? How low is too low? My current mortgage with them is 3018 (without 500 mo taxes).

Be realistic about what you expect
Would you take $900 for a $3018 job contract from one of your clients? You signed a legally binding contract with the lender. They have the law on their side because you defaulted on your loan and broke the contract.
IMB/OWB has told us they are not modifying anything but the goverment loans. The private investors are not modifying their loans. The best you may get is a 6 month repayment plan. The lender is essentially giving you 6 months to cure the delinquency.
Your payments will go up for that 6 months too, so if you have anything saved towards a "good faith" contribution, this is the time to use it. Of course the more you can put down the less your payments will be. If you don't have the income to repay the delinquency the lender is going to suggest a short sale.
If your loan is not a government backed loan, your chances for a mod are not good at this time.
They look at your debt to income ratio. DTI should be under 42%
If you have alot of credit cards you need to ditch some. Get it down to one personal and one business. Debt manage what ever unsecured debt you have. You need a couple more hundred dollars a month to make it? Think about taking in a border or housemate Cut back on utility usage. Car pool. They have the upper hand, you have to prove to them that you are able to pay them what you said you would.
Read EVERYTHING that your lender sends you and never sign anything without reading it first. Once your signature is on it, it is legally binding, and they've got you again.
Go to the lenders website. Print out the forms required, fill them out and send them to the lender with whatever documentation they request. Fax them, call the lender 3-5 days later to make sure they got them. Every two weeks you check to see if there are any status updates. Meanwhile SAVE whatever you can as the farther behind you get the more of a down payment you are going to need to come up with to keep your payments at an amount you can afford.

[davephx]

Originally Posted by darkdays

I'm thinking $900 is too low.e $900 won't pass the npv. . If 31% of your income is $900 your gross is about $3000? Then your current payment (without taxes) is more than 100% of your gross? Factor in utilities and other household expenses like home owners insurance and the numbers won't work out..

Whoa... I don't think the NPV is his problem.

If $900 is 31% of GROSS (forget any other expenses for the 31% test), this won't amortize even at 2%/40 unless lots of forbearance which is rarely
given.

From 900 subtract what 550 RE taxes and than insurance. That doesn't leave hardly anything to amortize $425k unless I am missing something..which is very possible.

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by davephx

Whoa... I don't think the NPV is his problem.

If $900 is 31% of GROSS (forget any other expenses for the 31% test), this won't amortize even at 2%/40 unless lots of forbearance which is rarely
given.

From 900 subtract what 550 RE taxes and than insurance. That doesn't leave hardly anything to amortize $425k unless I am missing something..which is very possible.

I don't think your missing something, davephx.

Yesterday, I stumbled over a user who got a HAMP at 2% over 40 years with $180,800 principal forbearance. She decided to reject the offer "because it would take too long to own the home".

There are situations were some people are obviously living in some kind of parallel dream-world...
(now this comment is only about that specific rejected offer, not this last example)

[davephx]

Seems like the 180k forbearance person was really lucky since so few seen here.

On the other hand...maybe its a sign of the pressure and more will be getting forbearances.

But in pamelabe's case he is Indy in a mortgage pool no GSE. Sort of the worst combination from what I recall here.

And its by pure luck or not who our loans wind up with as the investor since often bought and sold many times.

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by davephx

Seems like the 180k forbearance person was really lucky since so few seen here.

Absolutely. That's why it's a total mistery to my why she rejected it. That's as good as it gets since principal forgiveness does not seem to be on the table right now...