Who owns Fox News?

[Maurice Bedard]

The American people need to understand that the news media is owned by powerful families and corporations who push one political agenda or another. Fox News is no different. Many critics think that they are playing the American people against one another with their stranglehold on media.

News Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

News Corporation (often abbreviated to News Corp.) is the world's second largest media conglomerate (behind Walt Disney Company) as of 2008 and the world's third largest in entertainment as of 2009.

The company's Chairman,

Chief Executive Officer and Founder is Rupert Murdoch. (Pictured Above)

Shareholders



In August 2005 the Murdoch family owned only about 29% of the company. However, nearly all of these shares were voting shares, and Rupert Murdoch retained effective control of the company. Nonetheless, John Malone of Liberty Media had built up a large stake, with about half of the shares being voting shares. Therefore, in November 2006, News Corporation announced its intention to transfer its 38.5 per cent managing interest in DirecTV Group to John Malone's Liberty Media; in return it bought back Liberty's 16.3% shares in News Corp., giving Murdoch tighter control of the latter firm.



Murdoch sold 17.5 million class A shares in December 2007.

Saudi prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, who is an investment tycoon and chairman of the Kingdom Holding Company, said in an interview with Charlie Rose that he had about a 6-7% stake in News Corp.

Years after when Elektra Records was absorbed in 2004, News Corporation owned half of the re-issues from the record label company.

Is the owner of Fox News and the reporters really fair and balanced? Or is it mostly propaganda to influence elections and public opinion? You decide!

[YOUTUBE]cjwJ2JSEjzM[/YOUTUBE]

[Maurice Bedard]

In October 1999, Time Magazine remarked that "Rupert Murdoch is the first press baron to be a monster of the entire world. That's globalization for you."

The Time article goes on to say that Murdoch's "achievement is that he is the only media mogul to have created and to control a truly global media empire. He understood sooner than anyone else the opportunities offered by new technology--computers, satellites, wireless communications--to create first an international press and then a television domain."

Murdoch of Fox News Admits Manipulating the News for Agenda and supporting Bush Wars

[YOUTUBE]0K2pLo8JV5Y[/YOUTUBE]

Rupert Murdoch of News Corp / Fox News Admits Manipulating the News for Agenda - Admits he supported the Bush Agenda in Iraq - He is part of the Bilderburg group - This is why Fox News has an agenda against Ron Paul in the 2008 Presidential Election

[Maurice Bedard]

Bill Moyers: Rupert Murdoch, the Antichrist

[YOUTUBE]wUbCquOUrL0[/YOUTUBE]

Rupert Murdoch just bought the Wall Street Journal

[YOUTUBE]mf8Gi3SwfxY[/YOUTUBE]

[AZOwner]

It's not a wonder listening to news is nausiating.

We have really led our "leaders" to believe we are clueless -- that is the only reason I can see that they would think we could possible swallow the crap they are dealing.

Time for change, and not obama change -- loansafe.org change.

[Maurice Bedard]

AZ, many people like you are aware of the powers at be behind the media. I just want to bring this to the attention of the people. No media is fair and balanced and Fox News is NO exception. So is NBC. MSNBC, CNN etc.

They ALL are pushing agendas and have strangleholds on the media. The internet is changing that and we can do it!!

[Maurice Bedard]

Outfoxed examines how media empires, led by Rupert Murdoch's Fox News, have been running a "race to the bottom" in television news. This film provides an in-depth look at Fox News and the dangers of ever-enlarging corporations taking control of the public's right to know.

[YOUTUBE]PvSLNSn5swk[/YOUTUBE]

[Maurice Bedard]

Fox and Enemies



Is the Obama administration right about Fox News?

The Obama administration hasn’t made much of a secret of its displeasure with Fox News. In June, the president said that there was “one television station that is entirely devoted to attacking my administration,” a claim so obvious in its target he needn’t name names. And in September, Obama skipped an appearance on Fox Sunday Morning, on the same day he found time to visit with all the other major networks—and Univision, too.

Both incidents, and some other background, were recounted over the weekend by The New York Times’s Brian Stelter. The article is particularly notable because it is part of a series of outings where the White House has ratcheted up its harsh tone towards Fox.

“We’re going to treat them the way we would treat an opponent,” Anita Dunn, the White House’s communications director, told Stelter, elaborating that “we’re not going to legitimize them as a news
organization.”

Source: Fox and Enemies : CJR

CNN Debates The White House vs. FOX News Feud

CNN's "Situation Room" Debates The White House vs. FOX News Feud - 10/08/09

[YOUTUBE]z754XaYVfEM[/YOUTUBE]

From CNN: Anita Dunn White House Communication Director:

Fox News Is The "Research Arm Of The Republican Party" - 10/11/09

[YOUTUBE]1AEt180Wnls[/YOUTUBE]

Glenn Beck Goes After White House For Criticizing FOX News

FOX's Glenn Beck Goes After White House [Anita Dunn White House Communication Director] For Criticizing FOX News - 10/12/09

[YOUTUBE]B_Xtis39DxI[/YOUTUBE]

[Big Booger]

Is it possible that any of the networks could actually report the truth and be fair and balanced? I think not - they all have an agenda and it's money and power -

[Chased around and around]

Hmm lets see now, 87% of all news is liberal. Do you ever get the truth from them, nope, never. Liberal and facts don't go together.

News no longer reports the news, now they make the news, plain and simple...

[Maurice Bedard]

I am sorry, but it doesn't matter if the news is Liberal, Republican our Democrat, it is all spin and agenda driven.

You simply CANNOT have a fair and balanced media because they are owned by corporations who's owners have products to sell and wars to promote. For a almost 80 years Main Street America has bought these lies has the truth and now many of us have been awoken.

All I am trying to do with these forum threads is show anyone who relies on just Fox for their news and information is making a serious mistake. As would any person exclusively watching another network like MSNBC or CNN.

Most corporate media journalist and these big hot shots are nothing more than corporate puppets for their bosses. They say the wrong thing and the strings are cut. This is COMMON knowledge now and we all need to realize that what we are watching is nothing more than propaganda and illusions to push their agendas.

[otisanddinga]

Chased around,

I agree. Fox obviously has an agenda, but what is wrong with questioning Obama's policies???That's America....Everyone including mainstream media questioned everything the Bush administration did, which is good. But Obama is above questioning? Sorry, I will question ANY President's policies especially one's that make no sense and have not worked in the past. Remember, we the people, voted him in and can vote him out. ie:Jimmy Carter

[caldwell02]

Absolutely Moe. You've got to watch them all and also listen to NPR and watch Democracy Now and Bill Moyers and read different papers. If you are not able to do that, and many days/weeks I can't, I am WELL aware that the truth is somewhere in-between. The morning shows are also ridiculous. I have the TV going while I get ready for work. The major networks seem like they were created by the exact same people. Nothing new. As far as FOX - no way it's fair and balanced, but it's gotta be in the mix if you are to make a semi-informed decision. I say semi-informed because too many people rely only on TV for their news and I think that's a real mistake. I'm redefining the word that defines my politics, and it does lean more towards the liberal, but I still need to hear O'reilly and company. Sorry but I still refuse to listen to Rush.

[Maurice Bedard]

outstanding - I agree that someone needs to keep Obama accountable, but all accountability needs to be fair and balanced. FYI, Fox is the most unfair and unbalanced News show on earth.

Fox and Murdoch were huge advocates of Bush and his Tyrannical policies that basically took a lot of freedoms (the Patriot Act) from the people and looted trillions via the Bail Out of Wall Street from the Treasury. Fox high fived Bush throughout his 8 years of American lies, theft and destruction.

I think Fox News should hold the same responsibilities as we place on the Bush Administration. Without Fox and Rupert Murdoch, Bush could have never did what he did during his 8 years in office. If Bush goes down as the worst President in American history, well, then Fox News should be the worst news show in American History because they drove the Bush propaganda machine.

Media needs to hold everyone accountable and that just does not happen on that box we call our TV. It is only meant to sell us worthless things, politicians and wars

Caldwell - I agree with a lot of what you said. All I ask is that you do not place labels on yourself. There is no reason why we cant listen to someone who calls themselves a Conservative Republican and 5 minutes later see what the Liberal media has to say and then listen to independent media like NPR and Democracy Now. Then form our own educated decision.

I think the people Main Street need to divest themselves from any previous political, media or shock jock affiliations and become independent thinkers, voters and people. I watch Beck, O'reiley and competitors like Olberman and Lou Dobbs. Sure listen to them to pick out that facts, but don't hang on to their every word like it is the Gospel because it is the corporate gospel that they preach.

These forced labels placed by media on the people are tools of deception used to divide and conquer our thoughts, emotions and actions. Until we all realize that is what they are trying to do, then many of us will remain under their control and never under their own. These will be the people who suffer and die never really understanding how this world truly works.

Money and profits come before suffering people. Don't EVER FORGET that!

[Big Booger]

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News Corp

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Last edited by on June 17, 2009 - 11:05pm

• Entertainment
• Fox
• Murdoch
• Wall Street Journal

Company Snapshot:

Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation media conglomerate includes cable networks such as Fox, Fox Business Channel, National Geographic and FX; 35 television stations; 175 newspapers -- including the recently-acquired Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, and Barron's; other publications including TVGuide and SmartMoney; book publishers HarperCollins; film production companies 20th Century Fox, Fox Searchlight Pictures and Blue Sky Studios; numerous Web sites including MarketWatch.com, and non-media holdings including the National Rugby League.

Chief executive officer:

Rupert Murdoch

Website:

http://www.newscorp.com/

2008 Global Fortune 500 rank: 280

Net Income:

$ US 3,426

Total revenue:

$ US 28,655 million

Corporate accountabilityAccountability overview:

Charges of Media Bias

The groups FoxAttack and Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) track examples of inaccuracy and bias at Fox News.

Shareholder Disputes

On April 7, 2006 The New York Times reported that The News Corporation had settled a shareholder lawsuit two weeks before the opening of a trial in a lawsuit that accused the company of defrauding investors by denying them a vote on whether to extend an antitakeover resolution adopted in 2004.

A longstanding gadfly favorite, the resolutions generally ask that any current or future poison pill be put to a shareholder vote. Because poison pills are the single takeover defense that boards can enact unilaterally, shareholders have often sought pledges from companies to seek shareholder approval of a pill within a reasonable time after adoption to prevent potential abuses. But as witnessed at News Corporation in 2005, such a policy may have no legal standing if the board chooses to ignore it. Stephen Mayne: ‘Why News Corp has to change’

Tax issues:

In 1999, BBC summarized a report by the Economist that found that in the four years up to June 30, 1998, News Corporation and its subsidiaries paid just 6% of the consolidated pre-tax profits in taxes. Although the opaque nature of the business makes it difficult to know how it achieved such low rates, analysts suggested Murdoch's team employed three strategies:
* Tax relief claimed on debt interest repayments. * A reliance on off-shore tax havens. *

Exploiting global differences in accounting standards.

(According to the Economist, "finding out the specifics of News Corporation’s tax affairs is difficult because of the company’s complex structure. In its latest accounts, the group lists roughly 800 subsidiaries, including some 60 incorporated in such tax havens as the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, the Netherlands Antilles and the British Virgin Islands. ... This structure, dictated by Murdoch’s elaborate tax planning, has some bizarre consequences. The most profitable of News Corporation’s British operations in the 1990s was not the Sunday Times, or its successful satellite television business, BSkyB. It was News Publishers, a company incorporated in Bermuda.")

When a congressional panel asked Murdoch if he was hiding money in tax havens, including communist Cuba, he responded that "we might have in the past, I'm not denying that." The Washington Post reported in 1997 that "through the deft use of international accounting loopholes and offshore tax havens, Murdoch has paid corporate income taxes at one-fifth the rate of his chief U.S. rivals throughout the 1990s, according to corporate documents and company officials." His company "reduces its annual tax bill by channeling profits through dozens of subsidiaries in low-tax or no-tax places such as the Cayman Islands and Bermuda. The overseas profits from ****** made by 20th Century Fox, for instance, flow into a News Corp.-controlled company in the Caymans, where they are not taxed."

IRS officials say that "U.S.-based companies face U.S. taxes on their offshore subsidiaries in the Caymans and elsewhere if more than 50 percent of the subsidiary is controlled by
American shareholders. But that doesn't apply to News Corp., an Australian company."

According to the New York Times, one of its lobbying firms focuses almost exclusively on parts of the tax code that affect the News Corporation. "By taking advantage of a provision in the law that allows expanding companies like Mr. Murdoch’s to defer taxes to future years, the News Corporation paid no federal taxes in two of the last four years (i.e. between 2003-2006), and in the other two it paid only a fraction of what it otherwise would have owed. During that time, Securities and Exchange Commission records show, the News Corporation’s domestic pretax profits topped $9.4 billion."

Labor:

Murdoch told biographer William Shawcross that much of the criticism of him in the UK is attributable to his success in breaking the print unions and his success in establishing satellite broadcasting. "I'm a catalyst for change … You can't be an outsider and be successful over 30 years without leaving a certain amount of scar tissue around the place."

Environment and product safety:
On August 18, 2000, a Florida state court jury unanimously determined that Fox "acted intentionally and deliberately to falsify or distort (Jane Akre and Steve Wilson's) news reporting on BGH." In that decision, the jury also found that Jane's threat to blow the whistle on Fox's misconduct to the FCC was the sole reason for her termination... and the jury awarded $425,000 in damages which makes her eligible to apply for reimbursement for all court costs, expenses and legal fees. The two verteran reporters had been working on an investigation of synthetic growth hormone, or BGH (a Monsanto product -- Monsanto was a Fox News advertiser). The story they had been working on was about how America’s milk supply has quietly become adulterated with BGH. Pressure from Monsanto led Fox TV to fire the two award-winning reporters and sweep under the rug much of what they discovered but were never allowed to broadcast. For more on the story, go here.

Human rights:

Murdoch has been criticized for doing business with Chinese Communist Party leaders and their children. According to the New York Times Fox News helped China’s leading state broadcaster develop a news Web site, while Murdoch worked with the Communist Youth League on a risky television venture. Mr. Murdoch’s third wife, Wendi, is a mainland Chinese who once worked for his Hong Kong-based satellite broadcaster, Star TV. But Murdoch says he hit a “brick wall” after bidding for prime-time broadcasting rights and failing. Murdoch cooperates closely with China’s censors and state broadcasters, several people who worked for him in China told the Times.

A group of China-based reporters for The Wall St. Journal accused him in a letter to Dow Jones shareholders of “sacrificing journalistic integrity to satisfy personal and political aims,” a charge News Corporation denied.
Human rights activists have reportedly vented their spleens against Murdoch for supposedly calling the Dalai Lama "a very political old monk shuffling around in Gucci shoes". Ian Johnson, a Journal reporter who worked in China from 1994 to 2001, wrote that during the same period, "Murdoch went from being a critic of Beijing—once famously saying that satellite television would be "an unambiguous threat to totalitarian regimes everywhere"—to an archetypical pro-Beijing businessman. He pulled the BBC from Star TV, for example, and sold the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post, which until then had often criticized the mainland's human rights record. And of course he killed the memoirs of former Hong Kong governor Chris Patten, who had long been a thorn in Beijing's side."

Political influence (national and international):

The New York Times reported that Murdoch uses "a gamut of tools — not just campaign contributions, but also jobs for former government officials and media exposure that promotes allies while attacking adversaries, sometimes viciously — all of which he has used to further his financial interests and establish his legitimacy in the United States, interviews and government records show."

For example, after supporting a congressional move to limit media ownership, Senator Trent Lott, Republican of Mississippi, agreed to a compromise that allowed companies to own stations reaching to 39 percent of American homes. Months before, HarperCollins, Mr. Murdoch’s publishing house, signed a $250,000 book deal to publish Mr. Lott’s memoir, “Herding Cats.” (Mr. Lott, an outspoken critic of media consolidation, agreed to the increase because it was still lower than what Mr. Powell had proposed, his spokesman, Nick Simpson, later told the NY Times.)

The deal reminded critics of the time HarperCollins gave Republican Newt Gingrich $4.5 million for a book contract just as Congress was preparing to redraw media ownership rules.

Other prominent politicians have also received significant deals from HarperCollins: Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA) received $24,506 from HarperCollins for “Passion for Truth,” according to a NYTimes review of Specter's financial disclosure forms. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, Republican of Texas, received $141,666 for her book “American Heroines.”

All sit on either the Commerce or Judiciary Committees that most closely oversee the media business. In addition, HarperCollins has given book deals to Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE), as well as a $1 million advance to Justice Clarence Thomas of the Supreme Court.

In 2007, Murdoch's acquisition of the Wall St. Journal elicited criticism from others in the media establishment familiar with his tactics:
“It is hard to imagine Rupert Murdoch publishing The New York Post in Midtown Manhattan, with all of his personal and political biases and business interests reflected every day, while publishing The Wall Street Journal in Downtown Manhattan with no interference whatsoever,” James Ottaway Jr., a 5 percent shareholder and former director of Dow Jones, said.

Murdoch's Washington Lobby Corps, paid $11 million between 1998 and 2007, includes:

• Anthony Podesta, former counsel to Senator Ted Kennedy (a frequent target of Murdoch's Boston Herald);
• Ed Gillespie, former Republican Party chairman;
• Former New York Senator Alfonse M. D’Amato
• The firm headed by former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani of New York.
• Jack Quinn, former White House counsel under Clinton.

A Times analysis of campaign finance records "shows that (between 1997 and 2007), Republicans have received only a slight majority — 56 percent — of the $4.76 million in campaign donations from the Murdoch family and the News Corporation’s political action committees and employees. Since Democrats won control of Congress in the 2006 elections, the company and its employees have given more than twice as much to Democrats as to Republicans, the records show."

Gary Ginsberg and Peter Chernin, president and chief operating officer of the News Corporation, were hosts of back-to-back fund-raisers for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, one in New York and one in Los Angeles.
Murdoch donated $500,000 to former president Clinton’s Global Initiative.
News Corporation turned to Republican allies to put pressure on the Nielsen Corporation to drop plans to switch to a more sophisticated technology to calculate ratings that television stations use to set advertising rates for local programming. Senator Conrad Burns, a Montana

Republican who was chairman of the Commerce Committee’s communications subcommittee, and Representative Vito J. Fossella, a New York Republican, introduced legislation that threatened Nielsen with government oversight. According to the Times, during the year the legislation was introduced (2005), the bill’s 29 sponsors and co-sponsors together received at least $144,650 in donations from the News Corporation’s political action committees and lobbyists.

Dale Snape, who lobbied for Nielsen, told the Times: “It was a classic example of him using all his resources to try to politically influence an outcome — he bought a Hill debate. It was scorched earth, and it was all about money. They created a public interest furor where there was none.”

Atlantic Monthly editor James Fallows wrote in the September 2003 issue:

"Murdoch seems to be most interested in the political connections that will help his business … In short, some aspects of News Corp's programming, positions, and alliances serve conservative political ends, and others do not. But all are consistent with the use of political influence for corporate advantage. In the books I read and interviews I conducted, I found only one illustration of Murdoch's using his money and power for blatantly political ends: his funding of The Weekly Standard. The rest of the time he makes his political points when convenient as an adjunct to making money."

Social responsibility:

Ties to Big Tobacco As Sourcewatch reports, Murdoch was on the Board of Directors of Philip Morris from August 1989 until sometime in the 1990s, and there is some evidence that the ties influenced the coverage of tobacco-related issues by Murdoch's news companies.

In 2004, News Corporation shareholders voted to approve the company's proposal to reincorporate to the United States.

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HistoryAfter taking over a family newspaper operation and establishing News Corporation in his native Australia, Rupert Murdoch entered the British market in the 1960s and by the 1980s had become a dominant force in the U.S. market. News Corporation went heavily into debt to subsidize its purchase of Twentieth Century Fox and the formation of the Fox television network in the 1980s; by the mid-1990s News Corporation had eliminated much of that debt.

News Corporation operates in nine different media on six continents. News Corporation has been masterful in utilizing its various properties for cross-promotional purposes, and at using its media power to curry influence with public officials worldwide. "Murdoch seems to have Washington in his back pocket," observed one industry analyst after News Corporation received another favorable ruling (New York Times, 7/26/96).

News Corp. drew on its experience in establishing the most profitable satellite television system in the world, the booming British Sky Broadcasting (BSkyB), as well as its U.S. Fox television network to provide programming for its nascent satellite ventures in Asia and Latin America.

Financial informationStock ticker symbol:
NWS and NWS.A

Fiscal year:
2007

Fiscal year:
2007

Major lines of business/segments:

Filmed Entertainment (20th Century Fox; Fox Studios, etc.);
Television (Fox);
Cable (Fox News, Fox Business, Fox *****, FX, Fox Sports, National Geographic);
Direct Broadcast TV (BSkyB, DirecTV, Sky Italia);
Magazines and Inserts (Big League, Inside Out, ALPHA News America Marketing, Smart Source, The Weekly Standard, Gemstar - TV Guide International Inc.);
Newspapers & Information Services (22 papers in Australia; UK: The Sun, TLS, Sunday Times, etc.; US: Wall St. Journal, New York Post);
Books (HarperCollins)

Additional descriptive dataLink to full list of subsidiaries:

http://www.newscorp.com/operations


Investor website:
http://www.maynereport.com/articles/2007/09/07-1205-863.html


SourcesWatchdogs and related campaigns:

Stop Big Media (Free Press)
Benton Foundation (Media Ownership Issues)
Center for Media and Democracy
Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR)
Fox Attacks
Don't Fox with Local News
Smoke Free ******
Newspaper Guild Communication Workers of America (Dow Jones workers)

Related reading:

Rupert Murdoch: The Untold Story of the World's Greatest Media Wizard
Murdoch: The Making of a Media Empire (1997)
The Oh Really? Factor: Unspinning Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly
Power Without Responsibility: The Press and Broadcasting in Britain
Outfoxed - Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism (DVD)
Cable News Confidential: My Misadventures in Corporate Media

[otisanddinga]

Moe, I completely agree but what about the Democratic controlled congress? They were equally responsible for most of the past 8 years and still are and in my opinion take the major role in the demise of Fannie and Freddie no doc, no down loans to people who could not afford? I always put a 20% down on my homes.Fox has its agenda but only Fox and this website are asking the pertinent questions we, the people, deserve to know. We elected Obama to fix this mess not complicate it more.Unemployment up, stimulus not working, trillions of debt for our future...Thanks, Moe...

[Maurice Bedard]

Our Congress is a complete failure. It's cancer on the Hill and it (most all Congress) needs to be eradicated in 2010. I think our country's fate depends on this.

I think that we have a corporate controlled congress with corporations who flip flop from one party to another based on who can be corrupted and who cant. Looks like both parties are as corrupt as ALL get out and the media is the vehicle for that corruption.

Looking at a Republican and a Democrat these days is akin to looking at an ant and knowing its gender. They are all just coporate puppets.

[caldwell02]

Moe - I agree to the failure of congress but quite frankly I don't see anyone on the scene that is going to get elected and change anything. It's unfortunately going to take longer than the 12 months between now and next november.

That said, it's gotta start. If anyone anywhere sees someone with a lick of sense who can actually get elected with a push from us, then I'm in. Obama was elected because we/I wanted his change and I do not see it and yes I'm impatient but why can't it change? I'll tell you why - because we have to not only get congress outta there but if Geithner continues to have Dimon on his speed dial then changing congress does NOTHING. We need a fundamental change. fundamental. I'm not saying I know what that is exactly, but I feel it in my gut.

As far as labeling myself a "liberal," I'm sure you misunderstood. I lean towards that and always have. I lean towards healthcare for all and a right to free education and a right to feeding all children. I lean towards not spending money on war and spending money on people's welfare. In my mind that is not the conservative point of view, hence the label I place on myself for now. Maybe I'm a socio-capitalist. Who knows and quite frankly who cares. For that matter maybe I'm a socialist because - remember when Obama told Joe the Plumber he wanted to spread the wealth around and the rich guys in america had a heart attack? I applauded Obama. I've learned alot on loansafe and one thing we have been able to do is disagree without putting anyone down. Okay I'm rambling and I don't know half of what I've said. But I've seen the fall of the American dream. And I now know it was just smokescreen so the fat cats could get richer.

[otisanddinga]

caldwell,

what's wrong with having money? As long as you did it legally, that's what America and Capitalism is all about. I'm not talking about the banks but to tax the wealthy is a "double-edge sword". The wealthy create the jobs, notice we are currently losing hundreds of thousands daily under Obama's stimulus. They will move their businesses elsewhere like they're currently. They have the means to do so. Unfortunately, the world is not equal. Some people work harder and want options some don't. Is is fair for someone to pay for someone else because they have no ambition? Life isn't always fair and will never be. As far as the banks, they can rot. They did it illegally and at our expense. Thanks for your imput!

[Riley18]

caldwell,

what's wrong with having money? As long as you did it legally, that's what America and Capitalism is all about. I'm not talking about the banks but to tax the wealthy is a "double-edge sword". The wealthy create the jobs, notice we are currently losing hundreds of thousands daily under Obama's stimulus. They will move their businesses elsewhere like they're currently. They have the means to do so. Unfortunately, the world is not equal. Some people work harder and want options some don't. Is is fair for someone to pay for someone else because they have no ambition? Life isn't always fair and will never be. As far as the banks, they can rot. They did it illegally and at our expense. Thanks for your imput!

There is nothing wrong with having money. What does need to change is a tax structure where ordinary working people pay a greater percentage of income in taxes than a rich person. I do not buy the idea of not taxing rich people equals jobs because they had close to 8 years of tax bliss and all we got was unemployment. The rich got greedier and lazier and we got poorer. The jobs were gone long before President Obama. I suppose all the unemployed have no ambition? One example of how unfair our tax policy currently is would be that any income over $106,000 a year is not taxed for Social Security. That tax is vital for Americans and is a virtual lifeline for many senior citizens.

[caldwell02]

otis - WTF. Work Hard? WORK HARD?????? do you really think I don't work hard. Well FU. I've worked my ass off all my life. You piss me off. Where the hell do you come from with that attitude? Work Hard. Damn it. You have to change that paradigm mister or ms or whatever you are or get the **** out of here. If that's your deal then what the hell are you doing on this forum. Just leave your house and give it to your fat *** lender.

Oh - that is not what you want? Do you want the lender to see your situation differently? Why should they? They "work harder" than you do. They "deserve" to have your money and your home back.

I'm sorry to rant and I'm sorry this is mean but Otis this hit me right square in the middle and you and I are on opposite sides. About as far opposite as anyone can get right now.

[Irish Gal]

Moe, I completely agree but what about the Democratic controlled congress? They were equally responsible for most of the past 8 years and still are and in my opinion take the major role in the demise of Fannie and Freddie no doc, no down loans to people who could not afford? I always put a 20% down on my homes.Fox has its agenda but only Fox and this website are asking the pertinent questions we, the people, deserve to know. We elected Obama to fix this mess not complicate it more.Unemployment up, stimulus not working, trillions of debt for our future...Thanks, Moe...

Otis,

I see that when the forum owner disagrees w/ your sacred “Fox” agenda, it’s “thank’s Moe” and you are capable of exhibiting civility. But, when forum members (unintentionally) irritate your beloved Fox mentality by communicating political views different than your own (or Fox), you resort to typical Fox tactics: insults. I’m referring to the thread that Garry created to celebrate a new (hopeful) progressive politician from Florida (Grayson). Instead of just reading, disagreeing and moving on, you went out of your way to insult us both by posting that we both “sound like geniuses” just because we were celebrating someone in the Dem party who we like very much, and you obviously do not. So, forum members you disagree with (politically) are fair game (to insult), but the owner is to be respected? I do not point this out to start trouble, of any kind. I point it out because I was insulted and this forum is for all perspectives, not just a narrow few. And, when I post a view someone does not like, I’d like to not be subjected to personal insults, as a result. Not very civil or adult-like. Due to the cultural deterioration regarding civility, I know many today think it’s ok to be rude or personally attack those they disagree with, but I am not one of them. I appreciate very much the tone that Moe has created here and tries to promote. I would not insult you (personally) because of your Fox/ conservative/whatever you call your views (although I’d love to ). That type of behavior is precisely why I dislike Fox News / AM radio. It has so thoroughly indoctrinated its audience to behave like childish 6th graders toward those who disagree with its agenda: name calling, bullying of those who disagree, gang mentality (“us vs. them”), etc. So, I point out your double standard here. I see you are capable of civility when others disagree with your perspective, depending on who it is. Please, sir, I hope you continue this behavior toward all who may irritate your Fox/ conservative/whatever you call your mentality. And, not just toward the select few, here. We are all Americans. Whether some like that fact, or not. Peace.

[daglo]

There is nothing wrong with having money. What does need to change is a tax structure where ordinary working people pay a greater percentage of income in taxes than a rich person. I do not buy the idea of not taxing rich people equals jobs because they had close to 8 years of tax bliss and all we got was unemployment. The rich got greedier and lazier and we got poorer. The jobs were gone long before President Obama. I suppose all the unemployed have no ambition? One example of how unfair our tax policy currently is would be that any income over $106,000 a year is not taxed for Social Security. That tax is vital for Americans and is a virtual lifeline for many senior citizens.

My husband works about 40 hours a week. His gross pay is 8,732 a month. We see 6,000 of that. $185 is for insurance and the rest is taxes we pay.We pay sooooo much in taxes. Federal, state, and local. He even has to pay tax where he works because it is in a different county. We are penalized for having a decent income. The harder you work, the more taxes you pay. We probably will never see all the money we have put in for Social Security. It will be gone by then!

[caldwell02]

Irish Gal- thanks. Istill agree with everything I posted to otis, I got cruel. I apologize. I know that we are hardworking people. Again, money begets money. And what about all those years I spent as a stay at home mom? I worked almost as hard then as I do now. I've chosen the nonprofit field, and that is not high paying. It's just equating working hard with having money that gets me. I don't agree that the harder you work the more taxes you pay. I work as a director of a red cross chapter and I can tell you we work our tails off. For less than 1/2 of what your husband makes. So you still aren't multimionaires,a nd the tx structure is wrong. I'll try to look up the sites that say what percent of their income these fat cats actually do pay.It's insane. Even the pro athletes. who needs that much money? Perhaps instead of going to taxes (and we know what the feds may do with that) it should go towards workforce investment programs, training in green technology and the like. I still pay alot of taxes, even on my measily income. But I think the wealthy should pay more.

[Irish Gal]

Thank you, Moe for starting this much needed discussion. As disclosure, I am a progressive American. Not a Dem or Pub. Neither party does anything for me, anymore. Yes, the media (both sides) has a corp agenda.

My bias is that I believe the Fox News / Murdoch and their like-minded ilk (Limbaugh et al.) agenda is much more deliberate, pernicious and dangerous (pander to fear and hate-dangerous combo), overall to America. If one wants to talk about not being born in America, let’s talk about Murdoch, an Aussie.

He has no special love for or allegiance to America. His allegiance is to himself and the greenback. That’s all. Not America. He is one of the major reasons for the social/political decay of the American culture. He has made dividing and conquering Americans a fine art and calls it “fair and balanced” “news.” Not.

The Fox propaganda machine deems any American who is not a right wing zealot as unpatriotic, traitorous, haters of America, and on and on and on. This whips up the Fox audience who buy into all this shameful rhetoric. The Fox News attacks on American citizens (and this Admin) that are not Fox News fans are vicious, relentless, and repugnant. All in the name of profit. For a few.

I do not agree that CNN or any liberal-slanted media is as equally vicious, relentlous, shameful or repugnant (or dangerous) as Fox. Liberal slant. Yes. Vicious, hate mongering, propaganda machine? No. Hardly. This is another tactic of the Fox News propaganda machine: to turn any negative accusations back onto the “liberal media” with the same accusations.

And, it becomes a vicious cycle of finger pointing while the American public suffers the most under this toxic, political dynamic. We lose. Not the media or AM radio moguls.

I have never seen on any liberal-slanted media, hate mongering to the heights and levels I have seen on Fox News (or AM radio) daily (24/7) to the likes of O’Reilly, Hannity, Coulter, Maulkin, Bachman, Limbaugh, Savage, et al. They all worship at the alter of hate. Because it has made them all very wealthy.

Hate and fear are the products and unfortunately, they sell well in America, esp. when people are hurting or not feeling terribly good about themselves or their lot in life (that goes for all socio-economic levels/races and includes gender) and they need to find scapegoats to blame for their misery.

Who suffers the most as a result of the few who make millions pandering to the fear and hate?

Not Murdoch (or the Limbaugh’s) or all the well-paid, Fox News / AM radio propaganda whores. It’s all just a well paid, entertainment gig (game) to them. Selling fear and hate. That’s all. They don’t care if they ignite a civil war in this country. They’ve got plenty of resources to protect themselves and their families.

They can flee the country any time they want, to one of their vacation homes abroad. The American citizens suffer from all this hate talk, day in and out. That’s who. What’s unfortunate is that Fox does the hate propaganda machine extremely well. Fox disseminates all its love to the masses under the guise of “patriotism” and “Godliness.” It has thoroughly indoctrinated many, many, hard working, good Americans into voting against their own economic interests, as well as, has made them fear (and hate) any Americans who disagree with the Fox / AM radio doctrines.

The Fox / AM radio crowd that I personally know or have seen/heard/or read their Fox ragings (whether under-educated, educated, or highly educated) seem to share an openness and vulnerability to this fear/hate rhetoric, for whatever reason. Only they and their God know, for sure. And for all the Fox followers who proclaim their “Christianity,” they do not fool the discerning.

And, you won’t see anytime soon the Murdoch’s, O’Reilly’s, Hannity’s, or Limbaugh’s getting their hands dirty in any wars, defending America. Nor will you see any of their children get dirty, either. They all have their primo health insurance or the funds to pay for primo medical care, anywhere in the world. They have their secure, high paying, jobs. I say secure because, the fear/hate message works beautifully more and more, as times get tougher in America. They have their gated homes with high tech security 24/7. And, enough money to survive the Depression the masses are now forced to suffer through. With no end in sight.

The rest of the Fox millionaires / commentators go on air to continually push their latest Fox (anointed) books that teach the Fox crowd how to continue hating on each other (Fox followers "good", everyone else “evil”). IMO, Fox News / AM radio has helped to create much, if not MOST of the hate and infighting in this country today. All in the name of “profit.” Fox and AM radio sell nothing but “us against them” and hate of anyone, anything that does not buy into the right, right wing or Fox brand of propaganda.

As a famous American author/conservative (who is now 83 yrs old) recently said about today’s Republican party (which Fox propagandizes on behalf of): “Obama believes the Republican Party is a party when in fact it’s a mindset, like Hitler Youth, based on hatred — religious hatred, racial hatred. When you foreigners hear the word ‘conservative’ you think of kindly old men hunting foxes. They’re not, they’re fascists.” Harsh, but I tend to agree.

Personally, I could care less if Fox / AM radio exists or not. I know how to change the channel, turn off the t.v./radio and how to think independently. But, the Fox (and AM radio) hate rhetoric is what many, many Americans rely on for “news,” unfortunately. Fox News / AM radio have infected the soul of America and the masses and then go home to gated communities and laugh while they watch all the tea partiers follow their orders for the day, get intimidated by or pushed around by the crowd controllers and make fools of themselves proudly displaying their guns at tea rallies, because of Fox propaganda about the current administration.

These Fox News indoctrinated tea partiers or some other type of right wing zealot will most likely end up shooting other defenseless Americans due to today’s insanity, while all the girlie boys at Fox/AM radio are safe at home in their hot tubs, plotting where they will invest their next million dollars.

So, what I DO care about, as an American, is that I have to now try and live (peacefully) among all these Fox News / AM radio indoctrinated, hate mongers, who quite openly loathe and are encouraged to behave negatively (whether verbally or otherwise) against anyone who does not follow the Fox or Limbaugh doctrines. They watch and listen to their right wing heroes on Fox News or AM radio behave repugnantly toward fellow Americans on a regular basis.

So, it’s socially acceptable now. Hate is in. Civility is out.

Everyone is their enemy, except other Fox / AM radio posers. Fox / AM radio has taught them well. Murdoch, Limbaugh and the rest make their millions/billions indoctrinating and whipping it all up, and then the rest of us are left to deal with the hateful zealot neighbor, boss, co-worker, relative, blogger, mate, whatever. This is what I resent. Even if I turn off the t.v. or radio, the indoctirnated are in my face, day in and out. They are everywhere. Ready for battle. Centrists, progressives, liberals, Dem Americans are not just Americans who disagree politically with their right wing, Fox devotees, they are the enemy!

To be demonized and hated!

According to these 6th grade thinking / acting, girlie boys at Fox News or on AM radio. These Fox News / AM radio “hate products” have saturated the market and are in my life now, daily, in some capacity, and I didn’t invite them in . I have to listen to them routinely spout all this Fox News / AM radio crap like it’s fact and good for America. You can't get away from them because the market has been thoroughly saturated. THIS is why I loathe Fox News / AM radio. They are not just channels you can change. They have thoroughly saturated the culture with fear mongering and hate.

It's at work, home, school, church, sports, everywhere. This propaganda has systematically and successfully ruined a generation of good people, divided America, families, communities, a nation. There is so much hate currently brewing in America, it is scary. A good and intelligent man is elected and is (naively IMO) trying to mend all this culturally saturated hate and division, and what does he receive in response? Systematic vicious attacks day in and out by the Fox News / AM radio Hate Machines and branded the enemy of America!

Just how much culturally lower can America sink? How sick does the culture and atmosphere have to get before we reject all this fear and hate mongering?

This good man is now accused of “indoctrinating” America’s children (with a message of “hope,” mind you), by the very same, professional indoctrinators of fear and hate ! He's got ill-mannered, political subordinates shouting "liar" at him when he gives chamber speeches to the nation. To show how low this culture and atmosphere has sunk, Fox News / AM radio cheered on this type of low-brow behavior in utter and total disrespect to the ROLE of the POTUS. But, the Fox News / AM radio crowd continue to tell themselves they are the true "patriots" of this fine country, when they brazenly disrespect the POTUS every oppty they can.

I blame the Fox News / AM radio propaganda machines for most of this social/political corrosion in America. Not all. But, most.

And, I resent I now have to try and live a civilized life in this American culture of hate that Fox helped to successfully create. All for profit. And power. So, for me, all this is not just about propaganda and Fox vs. CNN, et al.

To me, it’s about the severe deterioration of America’s social fabric, national identity (we have none anymore, as we can’t come together (at all) as AMERICANS because we’ve become pathologically divided against one another) and the inability to live amongst each other, peacefully and under a true American value system:

Live And Let Live. Religious freedom. Tolerance for differences. Free Speech.

That’s what America was truly founded on. Not this hateful “my way or the highway!” mentality that has dominated for too long, under Fox / AM radio rule.

[Maurice Bedard]

Irish, WOW! I appreciate your candor and expressing your right to free speech. I would like to hear from those that feel Fox News has no spin or is the Holy Grail of News Media and facts,

This will be fair and balanced and no attacks please.

Irish, if O'reilly was here.....

[Garry]

otis - WTF. Work Hard? WORK HARD?????? do you really think I don't work hard. Well FU. I've worked my ass off all my life. You piss me off. Where the hell do you come from with that attitude? Work Hard. Damn it. You have to change that paradigm mister or ms or whatever you are or get the **** out of here. If that's your deal then what the hell are you doing on this forum. Just leave your house and give it to your fat *** lender.

Oh - that is not what you want? Do you want the lender to see your situation differently? Why should they? They "work harder" than you do. They "deserve" to have your money and your home back.

I'm sorry to rant and I'm sorry this is mean but Otis this hit me right square in the middle and you and I are on opposite sides. About as far opposite as anyone can get right now.

I got your back on this on Calwell, Do us a favor and get the F*CK out of here Otis. I'd love to know where you live so I can talk some shit to your face, take your little p*ssy ass down the road B*tch.

[otisanddinga]

Whatever irishgirl. Your posts along with garry's was very divisive and hateful. Sorry...
Nice language cadwell and sounds very hateful as well.it's apparent some people can't handle an intelligent debate. I did not say what you're impling. Unemployment has risen if you haven't noticed.you can't keep blaming the prior administration for this presidents failed stimulus. If it was working, we wouldn't need loansafe.wake up and stop fighting me. If you read my entire post rather than jumping the gun, i stated fox obviously has an agenda but is the only one that asks questions about this administration. Sorry, once again, but this is america and i welcome a difference of opinion. Sorry, if i offended anyone not my intention....

[otisanddinga]

Garry, you sound like an idiot and need medicines..... And should be banned for your vulgarity.

[Irish Gal]

otis - WTF. Work Hard? WORK HARD?????? do you really think I don't work hard. Well FU. I've worked my ass off all my life. You piss me off. Where the hell do you come from with that attitude? Work Hard. Damn it. You have to change that paradigm mister or ms or whatever you are or get the **** out of here. If that's your deal then what the hell are you doing on this forum. Just leave your house and give it to your fat *** lender.

Oh - that is not what you want? Do you want the lender to see your situation differently? Why should they? They "work harder" than you do. They "deserve" to have your money and your home back.

I'm sorry to rant and I'm sorry this is mean but Otis this hit me right square in the middle and you and I are on opposite sides. About as far opposite as anyone can get right now.

caldwell,

I hear ya . I wouldn't waste too much energy debating with this type of mentality. It's the run o' da mill, self justifying, "I deserve" and "those people over there, don't" mentality. It's the social darwinism/free market solves everything theories. It's Reaganomic conservatism, at its best. Even though it's well known Reaganomics did not work, his failed econ policies are still worshipped by his devotees. He started the corporatizing of America. The wealthy don't "create all the jobs" - most jobs are created by small businesses. The wealthy don't "trickle down" anything. They hoard it and hide it in tax shelters. That's about it. No trickling down anything with those folks. Just like the banksters are doing now. We gave them billions to "trickle down." Look what they did and got away with! No trickling down with the mega-wealthy. They know the American game and play it to their advantage. Many with this mentality are "wannabe's" also. They are not wealthy, but self-identify with the wealthy, cause they're "wannabe's." And, it comes out with ugly statements like you are responding to. Small investors trying to catch up to the big boyz when they probably never will. But, they can talk tough like the big boyz. "I got mine," so f'k everyone else because they are all lazy slugs. It's a mentality to justify greed and a willingness to screw anyone else over who gets in their way, so they can get or stay at the top. History is full of trust fund, lazy/no-ambition, wealthy folk. And, extremely hard working, poor and working folk. These types of people are everywhere. Apparently, Otis just hasn't seen or met people like that, yet. That's all.

[Garry]

Garry, you sound like an idiot and need medicines..... And should be banned for your vulgarity.

I'll apologize to anyone when I'm wrong, I don't owe you one.

[Maurice Bedard]

Garry, that is a bit much on the forum and has the moderator, I have to ask that you refrain from the internet threats. I like you and many would have been banned, but I sometimes feel the same and I would a bigot to ban you for something I may say under my tongue.

Ottis, many "independent media" sources are also questioning Obama. Fox does nothing but push one agenda and that is of the Republican party. Don't get into this one administration or the other, it is the same banks and corporations that have been running our country for the last 200 years. So please wake up to history and the truth about Fox, CNBC and any other major media outlet. Their message is that of the corporate gospel.

Imagine if they did like Moe does and were "truly" fair on life and information, they would be out of business. Just like I CANT get any lender or banks to EVER advertise here. I CANT be bought, nor influenced by a bank or little box that is plugged into my wall. It looks like you may have been influenced and you just don't even realize it.

That is OK, because most our Nation and world thinks like you.

PLEASE COME OUT OF THE PROPAGANDA SHADOWS AND WATCH THOSE VIDEOS. IT DOESN'T GET ANY CLEARER THAN THAT. MOST ALL CORPORATE MEDIA IS LIES.

[otisanddinga]

I wish I was rich. I was making a broader point. I'm not a Fox nut and listen to all sides. apparently this site is for anyone who doesn't get in the way of your beliefs........ Irishgirl, caldwell and garry... You're the one's expressing all the hate and negativity and seem to have ALL the answers, hence "geniuses". We could go back and forth but really, have better things to do??? sleep well

[otisanddinga]

moe, you're a class act and very appreciated but it's good to have a difference of opinion. I am not an advocate for Fox but appreciate an intelligent debate. WE're all Americans, first. Politics and Religion by the way has never been easy.....

[Garry]

Sorry Moe, It won't happen again. It's Otis and the people he represents that have destroyed my country, they can take their trickle down economics and shove it up their you know what.

[otisanddinga]

garry,

your ignorance is very funny...

[Irish Gal]

Irish, WOW! I appreciate your candor and expressing your right to free speech. I would like to hear from those that feel Fox News has no spin or is the Holy Grail of News Media and facts,

This will be fair and balanced and no attacks please.

Irish, if O'reilly was here.....

LOL!!!! As usual, I love the graphics, Moe! IMO O'Reilly is nothing but an overbearing bully. He just needs a hug or two from somebody who can help bring out his "gentle Ben" side . And, a good loofah scrub! Sorry, couldn't help that one! I know he likes to pound away at others' weaknesses and imperfections, but he has his own dark side, too . But, he paid to make it go away. To be honest, I wonder why he's such a miserable SOB. What happened to him, that he's such an angry, verbally abusive guy. He started out as a teacher, I think. And, he was a handsome (very tall) guy when he was younger. So, we know the girls must have been attracted to him . But, he's ending up going down in American entertainment history as one of its wealthiest and most famous bullies? What happened, Billy? Now, who wants to leave THAT legacy to their kids ? Famous t.v. bully - Bill O'Reilly. You know with a dad like him, his kids will be liberals . That's ususally how it goes down!

[caldwell02]

Okay I ranted and swore more than I do in a month or two at this one. I agre we all should be more civil to each other and as a rule I have been. Otis - differences of opinion are great. I agree. But I also shared mine and that attitude that says it's okay for the rich to get richer just can't continue. It can't. My son was making a LOT of money a few years ago (before the crash) and he spent an obscene amount of money on a watch. That was before i was having this problem and I was all over him for that. There is no way I believe spending $1500 on a watch is justified for ANYONE. I mean Why? Just because you can? Ridiculous. buy some people some food. donate to a charity....And that's just an example. Yachts (more than one) homes in several countries, "bling' out the yin yang has never gotten my respect. Bill Gates (and I'm not saying I'm a fan of his this is just an example) is giving hundreds of millions of dollars to fighting polio, which has almost been eradicated (only left in Pakistan, Iraq and Iran in the whole world). He still has too much money for one man but at least he's doing something with some of it. It's too out of proportion. that's my beef. It's way tooo lopsided. I feel poor. thought I was middle class. I think there are just gradations of poor and the very wealthy. Not much in between any more.

[Garry]

garry,

your ignorance is very funny...

I can't even believe you said that, why don't you wake up and come down to some regular neighborhoods and see what trickle down economics has done. Why don't we take a count and see how many people on this forum have health care. The highest paying job in my town is McDonald's.

[Garry]

You will know when you get to a regular town, all you have to do is ask a person how many jobs he needs to pay the bills on his regular house and still be able to buy food.

[Irish Gal]

I wish I was rich. I was making a broader point. I'm not a Fox nut and listen to all sides. apparently this site is for anyone who doesn't get in the way of your beliefs........ Irishgirl, caldwell and garry... You're the one's expressing all the hate and negativity and seem to have ALL the answers, hence "geniuses". We could go back and forth but really, have better things to do??? sleep well

otis,

One thing I dislike is when someone starts the shyt (name calling), and then when they're called on it, they turn it around on the person(s) they insulted. If you're such an "open" guy like you try to project, why don't you just apologize for (according to you, "unintentionally", which seems insincere) offending with your name calling ? I didn't go lurking where you post your political opinions, and then name call you because I don't like your views. You went to a thread that was clearly Dem oriented and chose to insult the forum participants there, because you're not a Dem. How open-minded and adult is that? You may now try (here) to berate Garry for his language or response to you here with your holier-than-thou attitude, but you, sir, are not innocent. Using elegant condescension, sarcasism and name calling makes it no different than using honest profanity. Garry's real. You're a phony, sir. Why don't you just take responsibility for what YOU started ? I don't get it, because "conservatives" are usually the lecturers to everyone else on taking "personal responsbility" for oneself. Please, do it. Now. Don't be the hypocrit like you are coming off, as. And, no need to lecture others on how to behave in forums. You behave poorly yourself. Own up, otis. You started the name calling and are now playing the victim. Poor, poor conservative victim of all the liberal, hate mongers here. So transparent and Fox Newsy. Not buying it, ot. But, I'm sure you won't stand up and take responsibility for starting or contributing to any uncivility here. You're not the gentleman you profess to be. You're a poser. Not the real deal. Night, night, Otie. Sleep well.