Fraud to Take Fixtures?

[skaylie693]

I just read in another post that it is considered fraud to take the fixtures out of the home. Is this true?

I bought the light in the dining area and I want to take it with me. I also bought all of the ceiling fans throughout the house and I intended to take them with me as well.

What about appliances? On top of that, I bought the refrigerator, oven, washer, and dryer currently in my home and I had full intentions of taking them with me as well.

I'm pretty sure I have all of the original fixtures in the house except one stored in the attic so I can put those back but what about the one I don't have? I certainly don't have the oven and refrigerator that were in the home when we bought it? Do I really have to leave this stuff here? What are the implications of taking it all with me? It is mine afterall...

[Big Booger]

I'm thinking if you have replacements for the lighting and ceiling fans, put the old back up take the new it's yours you bought it - appliance are yours as well - you bought em - jmo

just don't tear down the cabinets, take the shower head, faucets, ect....lol jk I know this is serious but I think that there have been those who have walked away and taken everything including the kitchen sink.

[AZOwner]

The great THEY say that the FBI is coming after those that strip homes before leaving.

I agree, if you have and leave what was originally purchased with the house, you should be free and clear. If your appliances were part of your purchase price, with the mortgage monies, I think you have to leave them, or you will risk a lawsuit or arrest. . .

[davephx]

IF appliances are not connected to the structure you can take.

A built in dishwasher maybe questionable.

If can replace with original fans etc that should be fine.

[Harry Seaward]

As far as the ceiling fans go, go to home depot and get some electrical box (gang box) cover plates - the round ones.

Take down whatever you put up and put the covers on the boxes (be sure to cap the wires in the ceiling). As long as your purchase agreement doesn't specify there was something there when you bought the house, there's no way anyone can claim you stole it.

[BadBobMo]

Take down the new and put-up the old it's that simple. I saved all the original crap!

[jakelabry]

Yeah, I think that you should leave what was in it when you bought it. Most of it is 'no brainer' if you have the old stuff to reinstall but the stove and fridge ... there was a stove and fridge when you bought it so I personally would feel obligated to at least leave the stove. It's SOP for most houses to come with all appliances but washer/dryers and refrigerators so you should be okay taking them. The stove/oven is a gray area though and I would leave it because there was one there when you bought the house and it is "standard" equipment so to speak. I left all my appliances when I sold my house even though the stove and built-in microwave were brand new and it didn't come with a refrigerator when I bought it.

BUT - I don't think the FBI is going to come after you for taking a stove. They are going after the strippers who pull copper out of walls, etc. and do actual physical damage to the house.

[skaylie693]

Thanks for all of the input. I think I will go ahead and take my ceiling fans and one light fixture. I have all of the original fixtures except for one. I'll run to home depot and buy something to put up there. Thanks again guys.

[4closencali]

what about stuff that wasn't part of the house....but came with incentives?

I would think that would still considered as purchase by us, since we could have used the $$ to pay down other cost right?

We got about 15K incentive for down or upgrades...

- we did upgrades...ie floors and blinds
- but got the following appliances: washer, dryer and A/C thrown in for Free

Can we take the appliances?

[Harry Seaward]

what about stuff that wasn't part of the house....but came with incentives?

I would think that would still considered as purchase by us, since we could have used the $$ to pay down other cost right?

We got about 15K incentive for down or upgrades...

- we did upgrades...ie floors and blinds
- but got the following appliances: washer, dryer and A/C thrown in for Free

Can we take the appliances?

I think the legal theory behind the 'fraud law' is that anything that was purchased with the mortgage (i.e. wrapped into it) is security for the mortgage.

For example, if you spend $50k on upgrades that you wrapped into your mortgage and then take those upgrades with you when you leave, you are preventing the bank from being able to sell those upgrades to recover their outlay for that portion of the mortgage.

In contrast, if you went out and spent $50k of your own cash on those upgrades, and the money used was not part of any loan, (I believe) you are fully within your right to take them with you when you leave. Not to mention, if they weren't part of the mortgage, the bank would have no way of knowing they even existed in the first place as long as you restored to original condition anything that was replaced by the upgraded item.

[4closencali]

ok...so anything that wasn't a line item part of the loan should be ok to take...

for us, I think that would be the frig, w/d, and ac....

The flooring and blinds will stay...wasnt' taking them anyway =)

[goldie]

I just read in another post that it is considered fraud to take the fixtures out of the home. Is this true?

I bought the light in the dining area and I want to take it with me. I also bought all of the ceiling fans throughout the house and I intended to take them with me as well.

What about appliances? On top of that, I bought the refrigerator, oven, washer, and dryer currently in my home and I had full intentions of taking them with me as well.

I'm pretty sure I have all of the original fixtures in the house except one stored in the attic so I can put those back but what about the one I don't have? I certainly don't have the oven and refrigerator that were in the home when we bought it? Do I really have to leave this stuff here? What are the implications of taking it all with me? It is mine afterall...

If I were you I'd put the originals back up. Why not look around for free appliances (that still work) on Craigslist. That way you can't be held accountable, as you left working appliances in it. I have an idea about putting 70s style (as ugly as sin as possible) fixtures/appliances in place of the ones I replaced (which were also pretty ugly, but I disposed of them already). Think avacado green stove and harvest gold refrigerator with Brady Bunch-looking light fixtures.

[Harry Seaward]

ok...so anything that wasn't a line item part of the loan should be ok to take...

for us, I think that would be the frig, w/d, and ac....

The flooring and blinds will stay...wasnt' taking them anyway =)

The house didn't come with air conditioning?

[shasta_steve]

Here in California it does not seem to be a problem taking anything. When I was looking to buy another house I would say half of them had been stripped to one degree or another. That being said I feel that those who strip houses should be held financially and criminally responsible. I am not talking about things the owner put in but a lot of houses had toilets,sinks, countertops and fixtures removed. They had holes in walls and copper pulled out.

Now a guy I work with recently did a "pump and dump" where he bought a new house and let the other one go back. The bank was upset and tried to make life a little difficult for him. He did remove all the appliances and fixtures and the bank turned it in as a theft on his home owners insurance. Not sure how this will all work out.

[Tarot]

The FBI is NOT going after anyone who strips their house, absolutely not! It's not a Federal crime. FBI only has jurisdiction for FEDERAL crimes (which is why they didn't investigate the Jonbenet Ramsey murder). In fact they don't have enough resources to go after legitimate meaningful crime.

They may however be looking closely at the large banks and investors such as Goldman. But they are not going to come after you for stripping copper out of your walls. The idea is laughable.

There is a guy here who poured cement down his drains. They are suing him for the damages. However it was his house at the time he did it, and you have the right to pour cement down the drains of your own house if you want. OTOH, his action was 'malicious' in intent--so we'll see how that works out in court.

My attorney said you can take what you want, particularly if it's not attached to the house (such as appliances); after all, if you sell the house you have the right to take appliances and attached lighting fixtures with you if you want. He said people around here take their granite countertops and leave plywood in it's place and will often take a furnace or HVAC or a water heater. He said not to vandalize, but take what you want. Banks don't like it but can't do a lot about it.

[Tarot]

That being said I feel that those who strip houses should be held financially and criminally responsible. I am not talking about things the owner put in but a lot of houses had toilets,sinks, countertops and fixtures removed. They had holes in walls and copper pulled out.

Now a guy I work with recently did a "pump and dump" where he bought a new house and let the other one go back. The bank was upset and tried to make life a little difficult for him. He did remove all the appliances and fixtures and the bank turned it in as a theft on his home owners insurance. Not sure how this will all work out.

How can it be a theft? If he removed the property while he still owned it, he can do what he wants with it. There's no law that says you have to have toilets and electrical wiring or countertops in a house. HE wasn't the one who submitted a claim to his homeowner's insurance, the bank did. They are the ones committing fraud; it's not theft until they have full title to the house--and if he came back after they owned it and stripped the house, then they should have submitted the claim to THEIR own insurance company, not his.

[shasta_steve]

Not sure why they did it but they did. From what I read on the internet it is one of the options the bank has. I would not be surprised if it were not in the contract somewhere. Now I have not read my current mortgage contract as carefully as I should but I do remember an older one I had and it was pretty specific on how I had to keep the house and even what I could store in the garage.

[faith]

How can it be a theft? If he removed the property while he still owned it, he can do what he wants with it. There's no law that says you have to have toilets and electrical wiring or countertops in a house. HE wasn't the one who submitted a claim to his homeowner's insurance, the bank did. They are the ones committing fraud; it's not theft until they have full title to the house--and if he came back after they owned it and stripped the house, then they should have submitted the claim to THEIR own insurance company, not his.

The link below will tell you a story of a homeowner who took things from his house when the bank already owns the house and cops got him and with his piclture too..
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2010/02/foreclosed_home_in_chandler_st.php
.

[needclosure]

To the original poster and others in the same position: I wouldn't go "buy" ANY new replacements for anything. Plenty of free stuff on freecycle and craigslist and check yard sales too.

[RightOnTime]

If it's past the trustee sale date and anything is removed from the home, I figured that was a crime, since the bank owns the home at that point.

A family member recently purchased an REO and there were no appliances at all. no fridge, stove, dishwasher or anything. It seemed to be pretty normal for REOS anymore.

I've also seen people going into rentals or other homes with their old ceiling fans in tow.