Mortgage companies and H4H success!

[revcarrie]

Hi folks,
I'm busting at the seams here with joy! My cousin who is with Aurora has been reading on this webstie with her son and following the process that my husband and I just went through with Citi (successfully) along with the information I relayed to her from Cat about H4H. My cousin just got the phone calls from both Aurora and the H4H agent and they ARE co-operating! Hers is a predatory loan in EVERY sence of the word from the get go and beyond! This saves her home for the four generations that live there. Blessings times four! Unemployment has been the biggest thing causing these circumstances. HOORAY! Keep knocking at your doors! Success can happen!
Rev. Carrie

[garyys]

Good news! I have been calling Aurora, trying to get them to participate in H4H since Oct 1. They have told me they are not a FHA lender (FHA Site lists them as one, but they tell me its wrong). Are you sure this is the Hope For Homeowners program (H4H) and not the Hope counseling agency (1800hopenow). If it is the hope councilor, this sounds like a basic loan modification (I'm not bashing this process, as long as it keeps them in their home, good). I hope that it is the H4H program (it doesn't sound like it to me because there is a "H4H agent" sounds more like a councilor). Please keep us posted. I have seen some confusion on this site, and others, because the programs have similar names.

[revcarrie]

All I can say is that I forwarded information from here (no computer at the time) to my cousin and she made the contact. She DID find out that her loan had been sold a number of times so Aurora doesn't own it, just maintained servicing on it. Yes, the counselor IS a H4H counselor and the owner of the loan has agreed through Aurora to work with the H4H program and my cousin. This is the first leander of any kind that I have heard of who is doing this. My cousin's loan fits EVERY criteria for the predatory leanding ...and then some! It is soooo bad! My cousin pointed out this fact out to Aurora and said, "I will talk to anyone and everyone until this is fixed!", when Aurora asked her, "how many times will you tell your story?". Granted, it was a very strange question for them to ask her but appraently the answer was one that got action.
We shall see what is happening on it today. These things can drive you nuts if you let them. Patience is hard to keep when something as important as housing, with winter hanging over our heads too....and the worse one on record in Iowa, according to the Almanac. We will wait and see.
Rev. Carrie

[diana0806]

More lies, just heard on cnn that hope for homeowner's has helped millions so far. No one has official guidelines that i have called and chase,my bank, is waiting for guidelines. All lenders on fha website who are in h4h and deal in my state,nj, have no guidelines yet. What a crock.

[revcarrie]

I'm sure Cat will be by sometime soon and give you the same information about the H4H.
revcarrie

[Maurice Bedard]

I think there is some confusion here..............Hope for Homeowner or H4H only went into effect on October 1, 2008 and it was slated to help 400,000 homeowners through September 2011............not millions, so I am not sure what program you had heard this about.......but it isn't the Hope for Homeowners program (H4H).........

Home owners clamor for help that's slow in coming - Oct. 22, 2008

HOPE for Homeowners

[garyys]

Thanks Rev. Carrie, and Cat

Please keep us posted. I am in a very similar situation with Aurora. But they are not working with me yet. I am trying to find a lender participating in the H4H program, nothing yet (Aurora told me to find a lender to write it up and present it to them, they would review it like a short sale, and determine if they would accept it). I was scheduled for a counseling session with the Hope now councilor (Not H4H) but have not talked to them yet. Thanks for the info, please keep us updated.

Gary

[revcarrie]

Thank you Cat.

This is what I did to help my extended family who are not computer literate. I have been searching the H4H owners website long before I found this forum. I have been watching for a list of agents to come up that had been promised. I went to the Hope for Homeowners website and they were eventually there, as promised. Now I have a list of sources who are handling the H4H program and they have been given the guidelines. I printed it off and chose several who are dealing with the Iowa area where I am originally from and my relatives still are living. I gave my cousin a name, address and telephone number. I sent an e-mail to them for her since she hasn't learned a computer yet and doesn't have one...yet. The e-mail came back to me with two areas to click on. I already knew her loan qualified so I clicked on "need application" and I e-mailed this to her son who is now helping her. She has sent the requested paperwork in to this agent as well as Aurora and her new "correct" apparaisal is ordered and the company who actually owns her loan, which looks like it is Fannir Mae, is co-operating. Her loan has been sold at least four times in the last year since she signed this terribly predatory loan. Her process is scheduled to be over with before Christmas. Before this list of 23 pages of H4H agents came out, it was VERY frustrating because most, if not all, FHA dealers are NOT handling the H4H. Only specially trained people are being given the authority by the feds to work with these loans.
I found the "trick" is to know EVERYTHING you possibly can know about your own situation, the neighborhood, everything you can read about this program and THEN watch the news. CNN.com has been VERY helpful. Every day there are bits and pieces of what is coming out like new legislation due in this lame duck congressional session to force companies and banks to co-operate with homeowners. It has helped my ralatives' cases for me, the "political junkie" of the family, to teach them how to write letters to their congressmen and women. None of them had ever done this bfore. Apparently many Americans recently have decided to do this because the wheels are now moving toward help for all of us "non-rich" tax payers out here. Many complaints have been made about how congress hasn't responded to the general public and they are all out of touch with our needs. When I hear this complaint, my first reaction is, "When was the last time you contacted your representatives?" The answer is usually, "Well ...never." This is like writing a letter to God asking for anything HE thinks you need, and never praying for it and committing to do your part to get ready to accept the blessing.

Before anyone gets the wrong impression here, I am NOT in the business of banking, or real estate. I have been known to not take "no" as an answer for ANYTHING in my life. NO, is simply someones opinion because they haven't researched the situation far enough and had enough faith. I am a minsiter and a psychologist. It is my businees and passion to help people find answers to their problems....it just so happens to be financial problems at the moment. I listen between the lines here in this forum. The emotions and frustrations expressed come from the same part of our collective psyche that abuse victims have expressed. THIS is where I am drawing from. Many have been finanically and emotionally abused over these mortgages and threats to their living standard.

The "lies" that were referred to in previous postings are not lies on my part and are not lies with the feds either. It has taken time for everyone involved to actually get to know one another....congress to know there are real needs out here and there are real solutions and for us to communicate those needs effectivly. Even congress is beginning to realize just how "amuk" things have gotten whithout proper oversight and trusting that everyone was going to be doing the "right" thing when it has not been the case....thus predatory lending and subprime situations.
PLEASE hang in there and here. There is hope and I feel in my being that things are going to be moving faster as time goes on. Just be willing to make this a full time job for yourselves and your loved ones. This is axactly what it is. Ask Cat and Moe and I can certainly testify to this fact too.
My extended family has learned this too.
Okay, end of lecture. Keep the faith and keep plugging along.
revcarrie

[garyys]

Thanks for the update revcarrie.

I actually called my congressman's office, but they never responded. Even if they had, I really don't know what they could have done, besides vote for something next time it came up (he voted yes on the h4h program). I'm curious did your cousin write letters to their congressmen and women, if so, specifically how did it help? As far as research goes, I have been researching and calling about this program since the first day I heard about it (about two or three months prior to the Oct 1 roll out). Everyone just told me to call back after Oct. 1. I was on the phone to Aurora at 5 am (west coast time) on Oct 1, they told me they had no details. I called them back at 10 am, and the next day, then about once a week ever since. They have continued to tell me they are not a FHA lender, and I would have to find a lender that is participating and have them present the loan to them, like a short sale/refi. The lenders I contacted off of the FHA list (I found it the first day it was up) have led me on (took my loan paperwork and then never returned my calls or email), or told me they have no "investors" interested in the loan. Let me clarify this, because people don't seem to try and understand what people are writing on this board. It is not the "investor" on my loan that won't agree to the terms of principal reduction, ect.... The "Investor" who would invest in the new loan are not interested in these loans? Seems odd to me, if you fit the criteria and ratios, it should be a good note to invest in? So I am finaly glad to hear this is moving forward for someone. What did they need to send to Aurora, I thought that the company presenting the H4H loan would have done this? Had they previously tried for a loan mod directly with Aurora, or is this the first try? Who is the H4H lender they are working with?

This entire process has been frustrating to me, and I am much like you, not taking no for an answer. Unfortunatly I can't make this a full time job, but it has been taking up most of my spare time.

Thanks again revcarrie, and please keep us posted.

Gary

[revcarrie]

Garyys,
All I can do is tell you what has worked for myself and my extended family. First, it is up to congressmen and women to be made aware when legislation they passed is NOT being carried through in the intent that it was passed....IE: the 750 Billion bailout not being used to loan but being used for investors and CEO bonusesand in some cases $23,000 for spa treatments! This is why they have been called to this lame duck session to correct or force the intent of the bailout with new legislation.

Now for "research", yes, I called and e-mailed and listened to the news reports prior to Oct 1 also. I learned a great deal from the "NO" answers I was getting. It is NOT necessarily FHA leanders who are getting involved here. In fact most of them are not. There are 23 pages worth of companies who ARE doing this TYPE of FHA loan with the H4H owner's bill. They are handling different states or sections of the country more as a "speciality" rather than all FHA lenders doing it. No, the guidelines were not available until just recently...far beyond the Oct 1 date...as often happens with gov and especially when there isn't any presidence to draw from. Everyone is flying by the seat of their collective pants on the hill, the same as all of us are too.

We don't know for sure yet who the actual owner of my cousin's loan is but whatever compnay it is, they are willing to let Aurora negotiate the out come. The loan had been sold at least four times and maybe more and we suspect it ended up with Fannie Mae which of course is the Feds now. This has apparently ended up a Fed bailout and the Feds are the owners in this case. Lucky for my cousin that this is the case. As with anything else and anyone else, come companies will respond and others will not....at least not yet. Refer to the aforementioned lame duck session for legislation. Fortunately again, the H4H people for my cousin have responded and quite rapidly as well....within 48 hours.

The same docs were needed at both H4H and Aurora...Hardship letter, wages proofs, expense sheets ect. Both got the same docs. The H4H requires $350 up front of which $250 is returned at the closing according to the agent she is working with. This is to make sure the time isn't spent on this process only to for people who are not serious about it, to bak out. The $100 left is for filing fees.

I'm guessing that Aurora is getting a fee for doing this from either the investor or some other source because it isn't my cousin. Remember, this loan of hers was sooooo wrongly done that Aurora could have charges brought against some of their employees if they didn't start working with those who have been faulted. The apraisal is about 50-60 thousand dollars "over valued" by the Aurora apraiser according to apraisals in the neighborhood at the same time and now too. The papers were signed while standing at the kitchen cabinet of an "agent" in the agent's home while the agent was babysitting SEVEN youngesters! The whole thing was the "back alley" things ****** are made of.

My cousin has stayed proactive in this case by personally sending the paperwork to both agenices and therefore she retains the very same records in the very same order with papers numbered and the last four digits of her SS number on each of them along with her name.....far less likely to "get lost". She also has the fax receipt for both sets of papers to each company with dates, times ect. She has kept a phone and fax record for all of these transactions and INFORMED both ends that she was mistakenly taken in once but she is very much informed and on top of things now. She also now knows her legal rights with Aurora and she has let THEM know that as well.

Yes, she had tried talking to Aurora about a loan mod and they didn't want to talk to her for another 5 years when it was due to reset. She didn't settle for that approach. She missed two payments and that seemed to have gotten Aurora's attention to the point they were calling her. Like I have stated before in another posting, Aurora asked her," How many times are you willing to tell your story?" Her answer was, " As many times and to whomever I need to until this is resolved," to her satisfaction. That also seems to have gotten their attention. There are many people who don't have the new found tenacity that she has found but now EVERYONE knows that she isn't going away.

One thing to remember, so I've found out, is these employees on the other end of the phone are just that, employees, and not the investors themselves who probably never answer their own phones. These employees can lose their jobs through layoffs and some have already been annouced through the news media in various organizations. They are facing uncertainity the same as those out here are.

Respect and lack of emotionalism is what is needed. I realize this is difficult to do when those out here on this end are so threatened with winter and the holiday seasons with all of their expectations coming too as well as a roof over your head.

I know it may seem far fetched by I treated our own Mod as a game of Clue. I kept crossing off things that didn't work until I found something that did work. I had the paperwork into Citi before I found this website. I had called and called and got disconnected or to someone who didn't know anything about anything. When I got the right number from here, everything was done with the Mod deal in four days. Jennifer even called us back to give us a "heads up" on the escrow check that we received yesterday and will be asked for it back in January with our first Mod payment. This was way above and beyond her duties. WONDERFUL lady!

If I have missed an answer to your questions about the experience that my extended family is having, please let me know. Every circumstance is going to be different....never a dull moment! This is what she is expierencing.

I am only a home owner with other professions like yourselves. My only goal to encourage you to keep your heads up high and no that you are not alone. I really admire those who are here to share their stories and support one another. Blessing sin your progress and keep the faith. We live in America and things do indeed work here....we just have to keep at it and have faith.
revcarrie

[garyys]

Rev Carrie-

Thanks for continuing to post daily updates, its helping me tremendously. I like seeing someone making some progress! Please don’t take my post out of context, I am not trying to bash you, or make you look bad. I am just trying to clarify some points that I understood differently from my research. If anything I will probably make myself look bad!

“It is NOT necessarily FHA leanders who are getting involved here. In fact most of them are not. There are 23 pages worth of companies who ARE doing this TYPE of FHA loan with the H4H owner's bill. They are handling different states or sections of the country more as a "speciality" rather than all FHA lenders doing it.”

From www.fha.gov-

“I contacted my lender and they are not interested in participating in this program. Can I apply with HUD?

HUD/FHA does not accept loan applications or lend money directly. Contact your existing lender or another FHA-approved lender to see if they are participating in the H4H program. Like all FHA programs, you can only apply through a participating lender. You may also wish to contact a HUD-approved housing counselor to learn more about your options. HOPE for Homeowners is a voluntary program for both borrowers and existing lenders. In order to complete a HOPE for Homeowners loan, however, your lender must agree to accept the proceeds of the new loan as payment in full. For a list of participating lenders and counselors please go to www.fha.gov.”

This tells me they have to be a FHA approved lender? Right, not all FHA lenders are participating in the program, but they do have to be FHA approved lenders. The lenders I have talked to are off of that 23 page list, and they are not able to currently able to complete the H4H loan (even if they may want to). They have told me that investors are not buying these loans. It is very possible that you have found one of the few that are direct lenders (as far as I understand, using their own money or direct investor money), not wholesale lenders (who have to sell the loan once they make it). That’s why I asked who the lender is, they apparently have experience dealing with Aurora and they seem to be one of the few actually processing these loans. The approved lenders are trying to do them in states that they are licensed to lend in, I have not found anything that has divided them otherwise (the list of states to the right of the lender name on the 23 pages is just the states where they are licensed to do these loans)?

See article-
http://www.housingwire.com/2008/11/04/mid-tier-lenders-shut-out-of-hope-for-homeowners-sources-say/

“We don't know for sure yet who the actual owner of my cousin's loan is but whatever compnay it is, they are willing to let Aurora negotiate the out come. The loan had been sold at least four times and maybe more and we suspect it ended up with Fannie Mae which of course is the Feds now. This has apparently ended up a Fed bailout and the Feds are the owners in this case.”

I take it that this assumption is made because congress is telling those that were bailed out to work with the program and modifications? Did Aurora tell them it had been sold 4 times?

“The H4H requires $350 up front of which $250 is returned at the closing according to the agent she is working with. This is to make sure the time isn't spent on this process only to for people who are not serious about it, to bak out. The $100 left is for filing fees.”

I could not see anyone who is qualified for this, not being serious about it. I would be very cautious about this, if the deal falls through do they get their $$ back? If I were asked to do this I would call FHA and see if this is acceptable, or even legal. A lender is asking someone who can’t afford their mortgage for $350? Sounds like they found a way to cover some of there time if Aurora decides not to play ball (like I suspect a lot of lenders will be hesitant to do). This is just my opinion. The original H4H terms stated that people seeking H4H loans would only pay upfront for an FHA appraisal of the property. That wording is now gone, so maybe this is something the loan originators negotiated with FHA?

“The apraisal is about 50-60 thousand dollars "over valued" by the Aurora apraiser according to apraisals in the neighborhood at the same time and now too. The papers were signed while standing at the kitchen cabinet of an "agent" in the agent's home while the agent was babysitting SEVEN youngesters! The whole thing was the "back alley" things ****** are made of.”

I don’t doubt the predatory loan, I’m in a similar boat, a lot of people are. It will work as a good leverage point. Was the appraisal done at the time of purchase, or a refi? And the second part, low overhead! Sounds like good service (meeting at home, not necessarily the loan) making adjustments to get the loan processed and through on time. Better than waiting till the next day and not having it close on time!

“One thing to remember, so I've found out, is these employees on the other end of the phone are just that, employees, and not the investors themselves who probably never answer their own phones. These employees can lose their jobs through layoffs and some have already been annouced through the news media in various organizations. They are facing uncertainity the same as those out here are.”

“Respect and lack of emotionalism is what is needed. I realize this is difficult to do when those out here on this end are so threatened with winter and the holiday seasons with all of their expectations coming too as well as a roof over your head.”

Many of these people are in the same boat as us. My theory, treat people like people until they give you a reason not to. I am always calm when I talk to them.

“I know it may seem far fetched by I treated our own Mod as a game of Clue. I kept crossing off things that didn't work until I found something that did work.”

That’s why I keep asking you questions, and hope you keep replying. Thanks again, and hopefully I will be able to start my own H4H thread soon!

Gary

[revcarrie]

GARYYS
I realize what my cousin has going on is unusal at this point....maybe the first...who knows. somebody has to be the first, right? Yes these are FHA approved people and no they are not doing muc of anything as yet but getting ready to do something....though the leanders, especially predatory leanders, are just beginning to believe they are in trouble....deep trouble....because congress is poised as early as today to put some teeth in the H4H bill and do some legislating to make it happen.

We are in a wait and see mode here. Aurora won't tell my cousin who actually owns her loan ....at this point. It is an "educated guess" that it is Fannie Mae because of their agreement to start this process. Yes, you have to find one of these companies on the list on the 23 pages of lenders and processors. I haven't talked to my cousin this weekend but she may be calling me today. "Sheepish" is the word I would use to decribe Aurora's attitude about all of this.....like a kid who just realized they got caught at something and punishment is coming hard and swiftly. We shall see what happens now. Apparently the important thing at this point is the paper trail and keeping copious notes.
revcarrie

[revcarrie]

Garyys,
Let me clarify something else here too. Yes, the people on the H4H are fha lenders BUT not the ones you would normally run into in a bank or regular lending fascility. This is why I used the term "specialty". Not every FHA lender wants to deal with H4H because of the losses to the lenders who agree (or eventually forced) to participate. It you think about it, there would be a conflict of interest if, say a bank, had made FHA loans and NOW could be in a position to have to write their own loan down and restructure it.
revcarrie

[garyys]

Thanks Rev Carrie,

Like I said before I am glad to see someone is actually making some progress. I found a second lender (from the list) that as of yesterday took all of my documents and is starting the process. I am hopeful, but worried too, because I documented my hardship, but am not late and have really good credit. I will start my own thread when I start hearing more from them.

Thanks for the update, and answering my questions.

Gary

[revcarrie]

garyys,
If you watch the news, more and more pressure is being added to the lenders to the point that Mr. Paulson Sec of Treas. said yesterday that he doesn't want to do anything else with the remaining of the 750 billion dollar bailout and is going to leave 350 billion to the Obama people. (Note the number discrepantcy here, there has been 250 billion used out of 750 billion and Paulson is going to leave the "remainder 350 billion to Pres. Obama and his team. There is some fuzzy math here and Mr. Paulson is not looking particularly well right now.) Paulson can't seem to satisfy his Wall Street cronies and do what is right by the general public too. The companies won out so far. His loyalities have been the companies before he became the Sec. of Treasury. He can't take the heat so he is "floating" until the Bush Adm. leaves office....at least he THINKS he can do that! Congress is taking testimony and no one out here and on our side is setting still for this any more. I'm so proud to be an American right now. There is a back bone showing up in our country and on an individual level. Keep up the good work and keep going. What alternative do you or any of the rest of us really have? What do you have to lose either? ...that you didn't have to lose in the first place?
revcarrie

[Newman]

For those of you wondering, "SPS" or, Select portfolio Servicing, IS working with H4H. This is great news for my wife and I, and if all the hype bears out as true, we are going to be able to stay here forever under the terms we are looking at....I/we are cautiously optimistic, and are willing to see this through.....I will post updates as they arrive....I will hold you all in our prayers up here, have a blessed holiday, and may the good Lord bless and keep you all.....

[Maurice Bedard]

Newman,

That is great news!
I hope it all works out for you..........
Please do keep us posted.

[revcarrie]

Cat,
About H4H, the agent my cousin has gotten somewhere with but not totally yet, is charging a $350 dollar fee with $250 refunded if she follows through to the end of the contract and Aurora really does co-operate. Have you or anyone else heard of this arrangement with the H4H agents? My understanding was they got a fee from the Feds for doing this.
Any clarification on this?
revcarrie

[garyys]

To me it sounds like the "agent" is trying to cover costs. Look at it from their perspective, news reports about anywhere from 10-100's of phone calls a day from desperate homeowners wanting to participate in the H4H program. Based on my limited research, at this time very few lenders/Investors are doing principal reductions. Many are doing loan modifications that add late payments to the end of the loan or reduce the interest rate to keep the payment affordable. I am hoping that the practice of principal reduction catches on, but until it does these agents may do a lot of work with few positive results. As far as the fee for the agent from the feds, I know that there are some incentives out there for lenders to modify their own loans, and with the change in H4H FHA will pay off the 2nd (not full value, but a little cash to get them to release their loan). I have not heard of third party lenders getting a fed payment for their work. They will collect the loan origination fees if the deal closes.

I have heard a lot of people speak bad about this program, how its a bad deal to share equity and appreciation with the government. That may be true for some, but for me that will reduce my loan by over 50%. Sharing future equity/appreciation seems like a small price to pay for that kind of reduction.

Also have your cousin ask the agent to request any debt forgiven not be reported negatively to the credit agencies.

Just my thoughts,

Gary

[revcarrie]

the following is a copied and pasted message that I just received from the H4H agent that was suppose to be working for my cousin. There was a verbal agreement between Aurora, this agent from the H4H list and my cousin that all would work together to solve her problem. "The packet" was never sent to her nor has she been offered any returns to her phone calls or offered any other solutions.

But Basic FHA Loans Flourish
by Peter G. Miller
December 1st, 2008
FHA figures for the first half of November are out and you just have to say, wow.
The country, for those who may have missed the news, is in the midst of a foreclosure meltdown and HUD has hurried help with all the immediacy and urgency of FEMA after Hurricane Katrina.
In the first 15 days of the month, 69 people nationwide applied for financing under the Hope of Homeowners program. H4H, you will recall, was supposed to help as many as 400,000 borrowers avoid foreclosure and poverty. HUD is maintaining its perfect record in this category and — even though more liberal standards have been approved. To date it has yet to approve a single Hope for Homeowners mortgage application. Not one. So far a total of 180 H4H applications have been received since October 1st.
Meanwhile, on the oh-damn-I’m-facing-foreclosure front, HUD has permitted 39 delinquent conventional borrowers to refinance with FHA mortgages in the first half of November. Since October 1st HUD has allowed 142 borrowers nationwide to dump toxic loans in favor of FHA financing.
HUD did approve 67,818 FHA loans during the first half of November, that’s up 126.6% when compared with last year. It’s apparently getting either borrowers with better credit or making standards tougher because average credit scores now stand at 683 versus 650 last year.
These numbers plainly say that FHA financing is in demand, which is as it should be. The numbers also suggest that the FHA program is evolving into something which best serves well-qualified middle-class borrowers with solid credit scores.
The conflict, of course, is that many people would have better credit if they did not have toxic loans and soaring payments. If they could refinance with an FHA loan they would have lower and more predictable payments, and thus their credit scores would likely rise.
The original idea behind the FHA program, of course, was to take on riskier borrowers and make them less risky by allowing them to borrow on a sane basis. That was the thought in the 1930s, and it is a thought worth reconsidering today.

[TRAZFUN]

I agree completely, I live in Michigan and First Franklin holds my mortgage. I've been trying to reach a lender that is handling H4H and I'm unable to find one. I've called 12 of the lenders listed on the participating lenders list and they've ALL said the same thing "the program looks great in writing, we don't have any information and no banks are funding the loans".

[franklinco]

I agree completely, I live in Michigan and First Franklin holds my mortgage. I've been trying to reach a lender that is handling H4H and I'm unable to find one. I've called 12 of the lenders listed on the participating lenders list and they've ALL said the same thing "the program looks great in writing, we don't have any information and no banks are funding the loans".

I have loans originated by the now defunct First Franklin entity. First Franklin was sold to Merrill Lynch from National City bank for around 1.9 Billion shortly before the home loan troubles bloomed. It was closed down but Home Loan Services in PA still services the loans originated. When Merrill Lynch was bought by Bank of America, I believe Home Loan Services went along with the sale.
Regarding the list of lenders who are listed on the FHA document, I have not tried to contact any at this time. I expected the same as you mentioned, the lenders would not want to participate in the program.
I have contacted a broker who works with helping those in bad loans get refinanced. I have to improve my credit rating to refinance according to this broker. Currently it is between 480 and 500 for two of the credit reporting agencies. One has no score since my credit is not active.
For now, I believe the H4H is about as valueless as the HOPE Now and FHASecure programs. The best hope is to remove the anti-modification provision from title 11 so that judges can set these loans into better terms. The new 111th Congress and its mix of parties shifting should allow legislation to finally pass to remove or modify section 1322(b)(2) of title 11.
The 110th Congress was not successful in getting the legislation passed, mainly due to opposing party objections.

[Newman]

I have loans originated by the now defunct First Franklin entity. First Franklin was sold to Merrill Lynch from National City bank for around 1.9 Billion shortly before the home loan troubles bloomed. It was closed down but Home Loan Services in PA still services the loans originated. When Merrill Lynch was bought by Bank of America, I believe Home Loan Services went along with the sale.
Regarding the list of lenders who are listed on the FHA document, I have not tried to contact any at this time. I expected the same as you mentioned, the lenders would not want to participate in the program.
I have contacted a broker who works with helping those in bad loans get refinanced. I have to improve my credit rating to refinance according to this broker. Currently it is between 480 and 500 for two of the credit reporting agencies. One has no score since my credit is not active.
For now, I believe the H4H is about as valueless as the HOPE Now and FHASecure programs. The best hope is to remove the anti-modification provision from title 11 so that judges can set these loans into better terms. The new 111th Congress and its mix of parties shifting should allow legislation to finally pass to remove or modify section 1322(b)(2) of title 11.
The 110th Congress was not successful in getting the legislation passed, mainly due to opposing party objections.

Frank, we too had a loan with FF, ours was sold to SPS starting 10/01/08. So far, my contact with SPS has been quite easy and balanced, while I always thought working with HLS was strained....

Anyways, an update for us.....we are still waiting for our respnse from SPS regarding an amount for the short refi. We have been waiting for nearly 3-4 weeks now, seems a bit like a long time....if you talk with SPS, they are working with the program, and are taking ALL offers, high or low of the 90% amount. Remember, the 90% number comes off of the APPRAISED value of the home, not the loan amount. So in this case, lower is better on the appraisal. The options are this for the bank...

Foreclose on us, go ahead, pay all the fees, do your thing, auction the house off, loose you collective asses at said auction. Get maybe 175,-200 grand for the place.

Or, do the H4H thing, do the short refi, save a TON of money. The numbers come out basically the same. To me and a lot of folks, they would be fools to turn this down, and thankfully, I don't think they will, they will take the money and run. For others on here though, not as lucky, there are a LOT of folks out there more than willing to spend a dollar to save a dime. We are 150,000 upside down in this house, for me it's a great deal. After 5 years, I'll have about 250 bucks of equity if I am lucky, I'll refi the place, Uncle Sam can have his 125, and I am done with him. Never thought I would be thankful for socialism, but here I am.


Still have the nuclear option, chapter 7. NO equity in the house? Judge says keep it. Either way, the bank will NEVER see the inside of this house.

P.S. IN referance to the above option for the bank, file that under

A. My hypocrisy knows no bounds

or,

B. The best made plans of mice and men.


TTFN!!!!!!!

[Newman]

P.S.S. (Or something like that)

Spoke to my loan guy today, as some of the comments had me worried....i.e. NONE of these loans have been done yet.....here is the explanation I got....

> He said that yes, he knew of at least two that had been done through his office, and as this is still such a new program, that is not a worrisome fact. Also, that these loans take 30-60 days anyways, so, not hearing from the lender yet, while frustrating, is still par, as the lender is inundated with requests.

>He also said this, and listen up folks...this program is NOT for everyone, is not a free for all, and has strict guidelines. Not a whole lot of folks are going to qualify, mainly due to income reasons. This program seems to be a bailout for folks who have an income, that is verifiable, (remember those stated income deals? Now you gotta prove what you stated, turns out a whole lot of people can't) (Go figure) Seems to be a program for employed folks (Talk to Circuit City about that one...Sigh) But the gyst of it all is this....if you lied about your true income for the original loan, and most of us did, to varying degrees, why are you surprised when your real income, the income you can prove doesn't qualify you for the loan??? All that according to the loan officer, I'm still on the fence about it....

Now for the loan, for those of you still wondering about this program.....

1. This is not, NOT a FICO driven loan, rather a loan based on your circumstances, i.e. in or near foreclosure. Ability to repay, and debt to income are also factored in. FICO is only a factor in reference to APR.

2. It is a short refi, based on 90% of your appraised value on your home. 85% to pay off your existing loan, 5% for closing costs. Nothing, so far, out of pocket. But, according to my lender, the window for these loans is narrow, and not a lot have gotten through it yet. According to him, I have. I wanna see it on paper, so I asked him for a letter of pre-approval, he said I would have it by Tuesday, Monday Maybe. Time will tell. Dad always says, "Trust, but verify" , so I am doing just that. If I get it, I will scan it and post it up on here if I can, just to show those that are contemplating this program it is real.

I wish, I really wish there were better news out there, so many folks on not only this board, but all over the country are hurting, Circuit City is closing all remaining stores Starting next week, thats 30,000 people on the street, awful, just awful. So, just this, my prayers are with those of you struggling to find a way through this, as I am, I have no guarantees yet, only words, and that we may all find our way to the other side of all of this, and get through it, and then vote Barney Frank out of office.

Best to you all, may the good Lord Bless and keep you, I'll be back with an update as I can....Newman

[franklinco]

Frank, we too had a loan with FF, ours was sold to SPS starting 10/01/08. So far, my contact with SPS has been quite easy and balanced, while I always thought working with HLS was strained....

It sounds like having the loan bought by SLS was a blessing. Regarding HLS, I believe the standard practice of theirs is to tell you that you have to be late in order for us to help you, then they'll say that they do not refinance as happened in my situation when HLS was part of National City. Once you are late National City would say your credit score was too low.
If they instead referred you to the company before you were late, your credit score may have qualified for a refinance.
For much of the information that I see on the web about HLS deals, they first run you three months late and then if you go for a modification you pay three payments of a set value. The first payment would cover late charges and escrow, the next a portion unrelated to going for the house, so far you have 2 months of additional late fees and now are 5 months back on payments. Then after your third payment you are 6 months late and more fees paid.
I do not know if the modifications will then be granted or if they would already have initiated foreclosure proceedings. One thing is, they collect a lot of fees and do not seem to help people get back on track. The six months late would then be tacked on the back of the loan, more expenses and fees.

Anyways, an update for us.....we are still waiting for our respnse from SPS regarding an amount for the short refi. We have been waiting for nearly 3-4 weeks now, seems a bit like a long time....if you talk with SPS, they are working with the program, and are taking ALL offers, high or low of the 90% amount. Remember, the 90% number comes off of the APPRAISED value of the home, not the loan amount. So in this case, lower is better on the appraisal. The options are this for the bank...

It is good that you have a lender who is considering to use the H4H program. The hope for a low appraisal is kind of out of the ordinary when usually you would need a higher appraisal value just so the loan would be approved today. Lowering the level of "water" for those trapped "underwater" sounds to me to be a benefit to the homeowner and should be a viable option for lenders to do. Their losses would be less than foreclosure and having a house to try to sell.

Foreclose on us, go ahead, pay all the fees, do your thing, auction the house off, loose you collective asses at said auction. Get maybe 175,-200 grand for the place.

Or, do the H4H thing, do the short refi, save a TON of money. The numbers come out basically the same. To me and a lot of folks, they would be fools to turn this down, and thankfully, I don't think they will, they will take the money and run. For others on here though, not as lucky, there are a LOT of folks out there more than willing to spend a dollar to save a dime.

The spending a dollar to save a dime has a lot to do with the bulk of lenders. I was optimistic that more would come of the legislation knowing the cost of foreclosing and lower appraised values from day to day. I investigated what the costs would be if a loan was worked out under H4H. The payments would have been affordable even with the addition of 1.5% additional insurance and the 3% up front. My home is about 40k underwater from expected value.

We are 150,000 upside down in this house, for me it's a great deal. After 5 years, I'll have about 250 bucks of equity if I am lucky, I'll refi the place, Uncle Sam can have his 125, and I am done with him. Never thought I would be thankful for socialism, but here I am.

Good luck with getting the short refi approved. I wouldn't gander what equity a home would have in 5 years. You would have a fighting chance with not having the 150k of lost value currently hanging over your head and possibly leading to giving up the home.
Since your loan was originally with HLS/FF it must have some hard to maintain terms to it. If the house does appreciate $250 in 5 years when you would refinance it would be easier to market since you would not have to try to figure what to do with the 150k of depreciation overhead.

Still have the nuclear option, chapter 7. NO equity in the house? Judge says keep it. Either way, the bank will NEVER see the inside of this house.

P.S. IN reference to the above option for the bank, file that under

A. My hypocrisy knows no bounds

or,

B. The best made plans of mice and men.


TTFN!!!!!!![/quote]

No judgment of you in my filing system. I am confused as to the outcome of the house if you would file chapter 7, I believe they get the house, at least in Ohio. They do not get fees and other deficiencies. Overall a big loss to the investor one would think. Judges would not free and clear title unless you reaffirmed on the loan as if you never filed 7. Now if the home loan was not the problem but other debt was, keeping the house would be possible.
A lot of people where their other bills being successfully paid until the home loan conditons destablize them.
Again, good luck on the H4H short refi deal.

[franklinco]

P.S.S. (Or something like that)

Spoke to my loan guy today, as some of the comments had me worried....i.e. NONE of these loans have been done yet.....here is the explanation I got....

> He said that yes, he knew of at least two that had been done through his office, and as this is still such a new program, that is not a worrisome fact. Also, that these loans take 30-60 days anyways, so, not hearing from the lender yet, while frustrating, is still par, as the lender is inundated with requests.

>He also said this, and listen up folks...this program is NOT for everyone, is not a free for all, and has strict guidelines. Not a whole lot of folks are going to qualify, mainly due to income reasons. This program seems to be a bailout for folks who have an income, that is verifiable, (remember those stated income deals? Now you gotta prove what you stated, turns out a whole lot of people can't) (Go figure) Seems to be a program for employed folks (Talk to Circuit City about that one...Sigh) But the gyst of it all is this....if you lied about your true income for the original loan, and most of us did, to varying degrees, why are you surprised when your real income, the income you can prove doesn't qualify you for the loan??? All that according to the loan officer, I'm still on the fence about it....

Now for the loan, for those of you still wondering about this program.....

1. This is not, NOT a FICO driven loan, rather a loan based on your circumstances, i.e. in or near foreclosure. Ability to repay, and debt to income are also factored in. FICO is only a factor in reference to APR.

2. It is a short refi, based on 90% of your appraised value on your home. 85% to pay off your existing loan, 5% for closing costs. Nothing, so far, out of pocket. But, according to my lender, the window for these loans is narrow, and not a lot have gotten through it yet. According to him, I have. I wanna see it on paper, so I asked him for a letter of pre-approval, he said I would have it by Tuesday, Monday Maybe. Time will tell. Dad always says, "Trust, but verify" , so I am doing just that. If I get it, I will scan it and post it up on here if I can, just to show those that are contemplating this program it is real.

I wish, I really wish there were better news out there, so many folks on not only this board, but all over the country are hurting, Circuit City is closing all remaining stores Starting next week, thats 30,000 people on the street, awful, just awful. So, just this, my prayers are with those of you struggling to find a way through this, as I am, I have no guarantees yet, only words, and that we may all find our way to the other side of all of this, and get through it, and then vote Barney Frank out of office.

Best to you all, may the good Lord Bless and keep you, I'll be back with an update as I can....Newman

Thanks for the update. Also thanks for the information on FICO not being a determining factor.
I do not have to fear stated income. I made what was asked at the time the house was financed.
My problems are that my house was in foreclosure, I went into chapter 13 which pulled it out of foreclosure. Our debt/income ratio for March 2008 met the criteria for both the need to refinance and the ratio after the 90% equity loan would have been made. The broker who helps people refinance in chapter 13 just received the information when I called him back in October 2008. Previously I tried to get a refinance but the loan had about $200k of debt on it and at the time my credit was 480, 500 and not rated because of inactivity. He said to refinance I would need a minimum of 580 for anyone to refinance the loan.
If the legislation does not get passed shortly which I am looking forward to, I may need to check into the H4H possibility again since he was saying a 580 minimum FICO.
About Barney, this H4H is partly if not mostly one of the voluntary alternative plans for rescue of the housing market. I don't follow his proposals too much.
I like Brad Miller's plans better and Richard Durbin secondarily.
Any legislation from the mudpuddle is probably going to be such a circus that most will not be able to jump through the flaming hoops and come out alright.
Someone mentioned that they are trying to set up the hoops already and then light the hoops and say we tried, sorry it did not work.
Thanks again for the update.

[franklinco]

Clarification, if you had equity in the house a chapter 7 could have required a sale of the home to pay creditors. I believe state to state your exemption is different and you would lose big in some states. Other states it would well cover the home with the exemption.
Also the judge would not allow a secure claim to remove the debt unless you surrender the collateral to the lender in full satisfaction of debt. In chapter 13 it is currently like this or pay back the loan at the original predatory conditions. You do get to make up the missed payments in the plan over the 3 to 5 years depending upon your plan length. (Under state median income 3 yrs possible, 5 years for over median income debtors.) I was under median income but needed to go 5 in order to pay back secured debt including the missed house payments.
Also sorry for SLS, I meant to post SPS as you mentioned.

[Newman]

Frank, in Ca. if you have no equity in the house, you are allowed to keep it...only reason to sell it would be to create capitol to pay off existing debt...not gonna happen here..LOL...

[franklinco]

Frank, in Ca. if you have no equity in the house, you are allowed to keep it...only reason to sell it would be to create capitol to pay off existing debt...not gonna happen here..LOL...

I understand that if your home is worth more than your allowed exemptions it could be sold off to pay creditors. This is the same if a car was worth more than a loan.
What I don't understand is if you have no equity it means you owe more on the loan than the value of the house. Since both a house and a car are secured by the loan, it means whoever made the loan gets the secured item.
If you were able to keep the home and write off the debt in CA, houses in CA would be worth moving to the state.
I'm not sure what you are saying about the bank not getting the home.

[Newman]

**************UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!******************* **


SPS sent over the payoff, got it today...

Balance owed is 440,, payoff is 243,000!!!!!!

(Reflect the above number as 270,000 actual payoff minus 10%=27,000=243,000.....not too shabby, huh?? Bank has been screaming for a commitment, we could not do that without a payoff from the bank, now we can move forward and put this thing away....

[garyys]

Good news Newman! Read back through the post and didn't see details. Were you late? How late? If not, was it just a hardship?

What did you mean by the bank was screaming for a commitment? This was an in-house principal reduction (the bank SPS is still service the loan, or did it change hands)?

Congrads,

Gary

[Newman]

Gary, loan was origianlly First Franklin....sold to SPS in Oct. We had a hardship last year, got behind on the mortgage, were never able to catch up. I was looking for a loan mod when the guy I was talking to recomended this. So this is not a modification, this is a short refi, which gets me away from SPS altogether. (Not a bad thing, trust me.) So the bank, the NEW bank, was wanting to get us locked in, thus the commitment, but we were not able to due to the lack of a payoff amount from SPS. Got that today, now I can commit to the new lender, get the appraisal done, and sign docs here soon, hopefully within 30 days.....

As an aside, I understand there have been a LOT of negative feelings about certain aspects of the H4H program, not least of which is the equity sharing part. But that is a small price to pay IF, you are terribly upside down in your house, AND, your credit would prohibit you from qualifying elsewhere in a conventional loan. Again, this is NOT a FICO based loan, it is based on your situation. From what I have heard, not a whole lot of folks are getting into the program, but then, there are a LOT of people out there who did stated income loans and lied about thier actual income, so no one should be surprised when they can not prove the income they stated. Those are the vast majority of folks not getting through the gauntlet on this program...BUT, loans are being done, and are starting to close.....it's a 60 day process at least.....best to you all.......

[Catherine]

Dear Newman,

I hope I understood you correctly? My lender is First Franklin/Home Loan Services. I too live in California. HLS instructed me to get approved for an FHA loan to short refi my house, however at the last minute they denied us with nothing but lies and a major run in circles way of doing business. Since our loan adjusted in November we have not made a payment. Would filing a Chapter 7 allow me to keep my home? Thank you so much for your time, Catherine

[garyys]

Thanks for all the details Newman,

I am working on the same thing, short refi using a new lender to qualify for the H4H program. My home was 320,000 in 2005 80/20 aurora/emc adjustable in 2010. The same houses are selling and appraising between 90,000 to 115,000. Those house are in better shape than mine. My loan was done as a stated income (my lender did it without my knowledge, figured it out when I was looking at refi-ing). I am attempting this on a hardship, not late, but had a reduction of income and I am draining my savings. The mitigation company dealing with everything submitted the docs, and I should be hearing more in about ten days. If this goes through I am worried about the appraisal, my house will not meet FHA guidelines (sewer, gutters, paint, ect) the best I can tell. I will see what they say if the time comes?

As far as the negatives, If i read this correct, i think you can just refi out of this loan and be done with it (wait a year, you will lose the equity that was gained from the refi if the market continues going down, save up some money and refi out of the terms)? Even if I have to split the equity/appreciation, its well worth it, you can see ho the value of my house has declined.


Thanks again Newman, I think you are one of the first to actually get a H4H approved!


Gary

[Newman]

Catherine, let me do some research for you before I answer your question...I am just a homeowner on here like you, I drive trains for Amtrak for a living, I'm just a regular guy, and I don't have an answer to your question but I will.....what I do know is this....

Chapter 7 is a financial mulligan, where you basically say goodbye to everything you ever owed on, under certain conditions, you can keep stuff...

Chapter 13 is different, there, they put you on a repayment plan, and you pay the court back monthly till your done...I believe it is a 4 year time frame...also, if I understood what I was told, you pay 10% on the balances you owed on, then you are done.

I if I understood correctly from my atty, that if you have no equity in your home, you may keep it. I just forget if that is for 7, 13, or both. Also, you have to be under a certain amount to file chapter 7, I believe that number is around $63,000 or so, before taxes. Thank Biden for this, he led that takeover of the credit system a few years back, making it harder for people to file. No coincidink that his district is Wilmington DE??? Or that his son sits on the board for one of those banks....in any case, I'll get you an answer.....I would post up my atty's number, but I believe that is not allowed...right?


Also...everyone...BIG BIG BIG battle shaping up on the hill this week re. BK judges being allowed to reset loans from the bench....last congress could not push it through, this congress it looks likely, which would send these arrogant, useless, world class a$$hole bankers running scared...those of you with impending doom from foreclosure, keep a close eye on the hill for the next few weeks....your salvation might be a vote away.....best to you all, may the Lord Bless and keep you..you are all in our prayers.....

[Newman]

Gary wrote..

Thanks again Newman, I think you are one of the first to actually get a H4H approved!

Thanks Gary, but I haven't signed anything yet, I won't breath a proverbial sigh of relief until I do...but this I do know...loans are going out...or starting to...

As for you, the stated income thing is going to hurt you....get yourself a GOOD BK atty, and stand by the pull the nuclear option if you have to..this IS the only thing you may have available to you in order to save your house...what will it do?? It will get rid of that 2nd and give you some breathing room.....it may boil down to this...but hey, by that time, judges may be redoing loans from the bench, and you may walk out of court laughing at them all the way home, a fitting end to your whole debacle....don't be afraid of bk, I would rather be in a home with bad credit than " In a van, down by the river" with good credit.... best to you sir...

[Maurice Bedard]

Newman,

You are correct...........about posting contact info.........it is against the tos of the site that is sponsored by the attys on the homepage so that members can join to get advice and assistance for free..

[Newman]

Thanks cat, I have seen what happens to folks that do that, though for other reasons...I did not want to take the chance....zero tolerance policy and all.....LOL.....

Newman<--------smarter than the average bear, but not by much....


P. S. Your attys are more in touch with the field of mods, this was a BK thingy, same thing or diff?? If needed, can I give out my email so she can contact me offline?? Or....will the zero tolerance axe finally put me out of your misery...???

[Maurice Bedard]

that would be the stick a fork in you and you are done........

That is the beauty of this forum...........because of the sensitive nature of the posts and stories we are an anonymous forum...........if this member is in the same state as you and wishes to have this information, you are more than welcome to email it directly to me and I can forward it to the member.....

cat@loansafe.org

by the way.............I know you have not received the docs as of yet........but I am really happy for you that the H4H is moving forward so you don't have to live in the van down by the river...........did you ever find out who the investor is on your loan that is willing to take the short payoff? That will give other members some hope here..............we are hearing that CW will be on board in April for the loans that they own.

[Newman]

Oh, and somewhere along the line I beacme a senior member?? I prefer Senor Member.....