My CA WalkAway - So Far

[deb64]

An overview of what we've been through, so far.

My initial post was back in September, so a quick recap:

CA home purchased late 2005, price $1,220,000.
Original Purchase Money jumbo mortgage, 20% down, fixed rate, 30-yr.
No second, no refi, no heloc.
Owe $940,000.
Value $700,000-750,000 (losing about $50K per month now)
Lender: Wells Fargo

The last payment we made was September 2008. Our first missed payment was Oct 08.

We are now more than 5 months past-due. We have not received a single phone call. As far as we know, a notice of default has not been filed. I check the county recorder website every day. We still receive our monthly statements, showing the past due amount and late fees. We have received two mailings from HOPENow. We received one certified letter from the lender stating that our loan was past-due and to call them to discuss options. We didn't call, because we know it's past-due and we don't want any options except to get away from this *%$@ house. Our last statement had a note in the margin which stated that our home was in the foreclosure process - whatever that is supposed to mean. Today we received a letter stating that our loan is past-due, and that if we make any payments the payments much be in the full monthly payment amount - otherwise the payment would be returned to us.

That's it.

Like many others on this forum, I'd like to just get things over with. I'm wondering if, in the end, we might have to force the lender to take back this house!

[overallthisbs]

stay as long as you can, your post makes me wonder though if there are laws that state how much notice the bank must give you to vacate the property? that is what I need to know right now, sounds like foreclosures are taking awhile in CA right now, which is good for us, we plan to stay as long as possible.....

[Feelingtrapped]

I am with both of you as well.

I am hoping to stay "rent free" as long as I can after I miss my first payment. If I could get 10 months out of this place after the process begins that would be the goal. (I am in CA)

I am still trying one last attempt with NACA to be sure I have exhausted all available option before I walk; however, I really dont care of they help anymore or not. I am just ready to move on.

Good Luck!

FT

[Olypentax]

Same here, in the Bay Area, CA.

I filed a Mod request with Wells in Nov., 08 and an application with NACA in Jan., 09 and I haven't heard anything from either one. I missed my first payment in Jan. 09 and used to call regularly but I have also decided to walk and stay rent free as long as I can so I have no reason to call them now.

I had 1 collection call on my 1st 2 months ago and the HELOC calls about once a week but they are cordial.

It is going to be interesting with all the foreclosures to see just how long it takes them to complete this process. I think they are becoming overwhelmed and the longer the better.

[overallthisbs]

for situations like ours, the banks really need to start considering to lower the principals, otherwise many times it just makes no sense to stay, especially if you are able to walk away from the property with little detrement other than your credit score. I have always had impeccable credit, high 700's, but there comes a line where it all goes out the window and credit rating really doesn't matter anymore.....

[melissasue44]

Hello! I read your posts often! Which is the same shape I am in here in Kentucky with Saxon, I have lived in my home since about Let's see I think it was February of last year! I am willing to work something out but this time it is going to have to be my terms or I too am walking. I am tired of living in wonder and worry!
But I just thought I would let you know there are many more out there in the same situation.
Hope you all have a good week!
Melissa

[medic]

I have a Chase 1st Mortgage and Wells Fargo 2nd (HELOC). I quit paying in Jan 09. So far no phone call, no letter or note from either lender.

We did finalize our bankruptcy in Dec 08. I was told that the lenders don't call you if you are in bankruptcy. I am trying to find out if I can stay in my home and pay just my first and not the HELOC. If so I can afford the 1st mortgage until they adjust it into a fixed rate.

If any of you get to the point where FICO score does not matter, then you need to file bankruptcy. You can have a clean start.

[deb64]

Bankruptcy won't do anything for us. Our only debt is the deeply underwater mortgage, which we can walk away from with no recourse.

[ProfessorShays]

Deb:

As you are no doubt aware, the only way you can recapture some of that lost equity is to remain in the home until the bitter end, with the hope beyond getting free rent for a while that you might get some "cash for keys."

But it isn't just the free rent. It is the fact that remaining in the home protects the lender's collateral from vandalism.

Take care,

Daniel

[deb64]

Professor Shays,

It has been a relief to have some rent-free time, and if we could stay until the very end of the process, we would. My husband was one of those out-of-work Silicon Valley execs. The company he worked for closed in Oct after the so-called credit crisis hit and funding shut down. He did find another position a few months later, which is good. The bad news is he took a 30% pay cut, so we can't afford the house now even if we wanted it - which we don't! The worse news is the job is out of state. He is traveling back and forth for now, but we will have to move in June when the school year is over. I'm sure the foreclosure process will not be complete by that time, which leaves us with the problem of leaving behind an empty house. We really didn't want to have to do that. I hate to think of all the work and money we have funneled into this house - only to leave it empty and rotting.

[Olypentax]

Maybe you could find some friends or renters that would like to stay in the house till the end, knowing the situation?

[dandelion salad]

Hello, I'm 61 and disabled. Have been in this house for 25 years. Yeah, I should have had it paid off by now, that was then, this is now. my mom was horribly sick with the disease I now have, Scleraderma. But then there's also lots of physical damage. I was given horrible advice regarding sale by one RE agent, who kept telling me to fix outside things like fence, and garage saying they were dangerous. She never signed me, though I asked. I now know that the first thing I should have had done was an inspection, but she told me to get rid of my pets, throw away all my history, or they couldn't see to inspect. I did my best. my house was built in 1924, and I bought it in probate sale. While I was working I did upkeep, but thought house was investment, and after I started getting sick, my refuge. 25 years with ATT. I have no assets, except a 20 year old truck and a 5 year old cat. I used all my savings getting scammed by 4 different nontractors, fixing house to sell. I was following bad advice, and after a really bad experience with a person I had to call the police for protection on, my neighbor's girlfriend, who was a newbie realtor-came over and said she had a handyman she was familiar with who could get it ready to sell. She did a bait and switch on me, saying she had a handyman who could fix it to sell as is for $2,000, after I signed she handed me apx $7,000 in estimates, and comped it at $609,000. She wanted me to put it on a credit card. I would have been living on $80 mo. on min payment. You can't do a "extreme makeover on a house this old-do one thing, and 2 more pop up. She finally said she couldn't have a happy life with me as a client. Hallelujah! But she wouldn't ever respond to my requsts for the papers. As she was a neighbor, I tried to do it without contacting her boss. But Finally I got her boss to get me the right papers. She sniveled that she was scared of me because she thought I was ****phobic. I finally realized the meds prescribed to me, were making me very stupid and malleable. I finally spoke with a Realtor with 30 years experience, and an atty that is working with low income people in East Palo Alto. I am in Redwood City, SF peninsula. I owe about $342,500 on house. They both say to walk away, that the comps were very questionable, and "as is" meant just that. I've wasted money trying to find a place to go, someplace to rent. I hate California now-even rentals are higher than my mtge, and too crowded. my payment is apx 98.% of my dis income. tried looking in oregon, much cheaper, but don't really know what walking away involves. The guy who sold me the loan lied to me, Amerifirst mtge, that I didn't know was somehow related to Ameriquest mtge, of the Ameriquest interstate mtge settlement, until I got an "opt out" card in the mail. Atty said that money was long gone. I have about $700 in savings, and about $200 left after mtge and utilities, ins,etc. Do I go through the right channels-to modify? Or walk? Call them or say nothing else? After I got World loan, it went up $40-60 per month on interest only, I finally realized that following brokers "pay minimum and throw $3-4,000 at loan at end of year from what i've saved on min pmt would mean I'd be losing about a grand in equity every month. I also missed the part where if the loan was approved, and I changed my mind, I'd have to pay him his brokers fees and other expenses.
about $8,000- didn't catch til the notary came. I called broker to ask why he didn't point that out, and he said it never ocurred to him,the loan was so good, so the 3 day decision period wasn't there, really. I haven't missed or been late on any payments. When the loan payment got so high it was equal to income, I had it fixed at interest only for 3 years , up April 2010. I called to ask if I could restructure when it was World-was told they only did no pay, no prepay-pen refi's-then she told me to not bother the bank if i wasn't going to play their way. Now it's Wachovia, they talk nicer to me, but told me they would send a letter in a couple of weeks from yesterday if I was eligible for mod. I can't afford heat even tho I'm on medical w/PGE. I heard people on the street talking about checking out the empty house (me) so have been redoing yard clean up. So there is no equity, no good foundation, termites, and all. Can they take my disability income, as long as it lasts-with what I've heard those "hard choices" the pols talk about are entitlements, and tho I was union with Ma Bell, who knows how long that will last. How do you rent if you walk away. I will never "own-total illusion" a home again. and am eating dandelion salads, and rice and beans to survive. I've noticed that mgmt co's are starting to ask for a working number that goes direct-no waiting on hold-to the bank that holds mtge if credit rpt shows you have a loan. No family, been sick too long to have friends. Agorophobic. Don't trust anyone anymore. Myself even less. Some of you in CA have been living in homes for a long time. If I saved enough to buy a cheap mobile home somewhere, could they take that?If anyone out there can wade through this message, I've tried to figure out CA's mtge timeline, but I just don't negotiate well, even off the meds. I'm terrified. I feel like a true wimp. A self-centered wimp, I don't have kids or parents to worry about. Though I have a FICO about 800, my income is too low to get anything but a adj loan, so they say. I'd appreciate any advice from you guys, tho-I can feel your anxiety. Except for you guys with other homes that are just angry because one of your houses isn't worth what you paid for it. To you I say Thank God you HAVE one home you can live in.

[00zx6r]

Here is another from Socal IE. I bought the house in mid 2006 for 385k (80/20) with Litton and Owen they both purchase money loan. I missed the the 1st payment in Jan 09 and now is the 3rd from both mortgages. No phone call so far. Will stay rent free as long as we can.

[Irish Gal]

Hi Dandelion,

Welcome! I wanted to say hang in there. You've got a lot on your plate and you are not alone. We have all felt helpless, confused, angry and alone at times in the beginning of trying to figure out how to get out of our housing messes. So, welcome to the club! A forum moderator may stop by with specific feedback for you. By the way, congrats on the 800 fico! Also, there is a free, non-profit, org called NACA that may be able to help you sort through a plan for your specific situation (to try to keep your home). They are a national org and have offices all over the country. I assume maybe one in San Fran? If you want more info re walkaway info / options - check out Prof Shays posts/threads in the Deed in Lieu thread. Great resource.

Also, read, read, read here. Get informed. No situation is hopeless. Ask more questions and your answers will come.

God bless.

[baileys dad]

Yes Dandelion, there is hope. I had a hard time following your story, but it sounds as if it might be predatory lending...which may give you another line of defense.
To help one of the moderators who may be able to help you further, could you detail your loan a little bit....
when did you get the loan, for how much money, what interest rate, what lender, terms (adjustable, interest only) and for how many years? Also, do you have any idea what your home is worth in today's market?
I would definitely agree with Irish Gal about NACA; they have been helpful to me.

[dandelion salad]

Hi Baileys dad; thanks for the encouragement. The "hard to follow" is what I have heard from my friends. as in "whatever you're taking, stop now." My rheumotologist put me on methadone for pain. It worked better than anything else , but I'm detoxing as fast as I can. I think it did something to my brain-too many "threads" bouncing around in head to stay focused. It was predatory lending-that broker's company somehow connected to a huge class-action suit that got settled in Jan of 06 for millions, but I guess changed Ameriquest to Amerifirst, and kept on doing the same old thing. The broker said his girlfriend worked for World. I was accepted for help from a non-profit to make my house more liveable and my sponsor was from World savings. After being originally rejected for the loan, for no heater, and because I wanted a fixed loan,he said i didn't have many options because of low income. So I called my World sponsor and asked her if a pick-a-pay loan was ok for me on a fixed income, she told me it was a wonderful product. 2 days later I was ok'd by World. I only wanted to get mtge refied to a fixed-the cc debt i was handling ok, as I had manuvered it all into a 2-3% for life of loan. cc debt-tv shopping-thought I could sell gemstones,thought it would MAKE me get out of the house. Its hard to believe I was so stupid, but not sleeping for days on end I made lots of mistakes. I hate doctors, american medicine-too much chronic disease in my family. I am so glad I found this forum. I am really trying to keep it simple, but am only now getting clearer headed. but even writing this I can see too much info. And I've deleted lots. I'll try NACA, Hope now didn't. Pretty much, this house is not worth anything. No agent could sell it for enough to make commiss. Neighborhood now has gangs and fighting in the streets. Filling out the disclosure papers was a revelation. There are homes all around with all the bells and whistles that can't sell or sell for waay below appraisal. The house needs too much work. neighborhood was iffy 25 years ago, people throw used diapers in yard and truck bed. What if I don't even want it. The non-profit did more damage than good. All it has is location to town-train-bus. . And it's getting harder and harder to do the yard upkeep. two trucks of mine have been totalled parked in front of my house. no off street parking. I got to stop- All it has going for it, for me, is that everything is close, and I know how it works. Or did. and it has a roof. I'm not in a tent yet. I don't want to kill any more of my animals to get an apt. too many words. Just thank you for responding. I'm going through the paperwork now. I'll reply with info when I can get a single thread going. God bless you. Dandelion

[baileys dad]

Well, part of the deal is what you want to do, which only you can decide.

- Do you want to stay and save the house or do you want to walk?

-If you stay, it sounds as if you have a lot of house maintenance to do, correct? That is something to consider.

-A lot of places, even apts, will accept cats, so that should not be a problem.

-Are you still current on mortgage?

-So first things first, get some idea of what do you want to do, then between this website and NACA, get informed as to your options ( you may have more than you think) and make a plan. Good luck.

[dandelion salad]

Hi, Baileys dad. Yes, still current on mtge.It is now fixed til April 2010 at 6.950%. I pay $2147.30 mo with escro for taxes and ins. included. I called to ask what loan would be when the fixed period ends, as it was a pick a pay from World. World said they would only do no prepayment penalty refi's, not loan mods when I called last year. Now it's Wachovia. They said the payment would depend on what interest rate was at reset date. Couldn't tell me if they had the same pick a pay type loan. By that time they will be Wells Fargo, who, no doubt will have a different set-up. No fannie or freddy charges on closing costs. Wachovia said they would send a letter in a couple of weeks if I was eligable for loan mod. At this point, after minimum utilities, I cant afford to heat but one room. Yes some apts take cats, but very few in this county.Or in the bay area, actually, and here, most apts run for the same amount or more than current interest-only loan. and one pays a Big animal deposit and monthly charge. I'm not sure my cat could be inside only. This is an area of older homes built for summer houses for SF
residents in the 1920's, and is mixed use-apts and homes. there are now several gangs very active. Families across the street are facing forclosure also, but they all bought fancy big cars with expensive rims etc, and moved there from the apts next door. I was told by RE agent that people buy pretty, and did as much lipstick on a pig as I could-was told that inspection wasn't that bad, so inside is painted and new kitchen laminate floor, but the guy bailed before finishing service porch. I will try to do it myself with vinyl squares There are foundation problems and my chimney is sinking-you can lift off bricks from the top rim. Would be ok for gas fireplace, but not safe for fires, but due to air quality problems, fireplace fires will probably be outlawed. I have a new gas wall heater, and a new roof. Leaky iron piping under house, termites, possable mould, Yes I do have to decide if I want to stay. I could live here if I could afford heat and food. I can't live with others, the roommate thing. . I will be getting all the junk left by the last nontractor out of back yard tomorrow. I will keep on policeing the garbage thrown in street as per usual, but the house is un-sellable, at least for the $342,500 I owe. I think maybe $2 a mo goes to principle. I seldom leave the house, I do not expect the economy to get better, ever. I was advised to walk away, am not holding my breath re: loan mod. I'm reading as much as i can off this site, but until the change to Wells is complete, and they have decided what their policy is???? The walls are now shaking from street music. I wear earplugs all the time. I hurt myself moving stuff in back yesterday, so that's it for now. Thanks for your interest. Dandelion salad. I don't know how to use this site yet, please forgive me for errors. I don't know what a trackback is. (question under thread response box.)
the reason I chose this thread was that I was advised to walk away.

[baileys dad]

Ok, dandelion, I still think you should also get in touch with NACA. Just from what you are writing, given the state of you house and what it's costing you to live there, I might also say to walk away...since you are not behind on your mortgage, you have time to figure out a rational course of action, if your money stream is sufficient. That being said, living in a house that you can't afford to heat or have enough for food says that you are over-extended.
If Professor Shays doesn't get to you, maybe you should go to the "Deed in lieu" forum and hit "new thread"... make a new post...try to keep to the facts of your mortgage and what you are trying/wanting to do...
good luck

[deb64]

I just learned that my notice of default was filed on March 12, at 5 months and 12 days past due.

Lender is Wells Fargo.

[deb64]

Update: Well, after all these months of silence we've finally seen some action.

I noted in my last post that the NOD was filed March 12: 5 months and 12 days past due. Today, someone claiming to represent Wells Fargo rang the bell, politely asked that I contact the lender, and left.

So I called. The person I spoke with stated that no, Wells Fargo no longer owns the note, but they do service it. No, she would not tell me who actually owns it.

She asked if we were occupying the house. Yes. Did we want to keep the house? No. Had we tried to sell the house? No. Pointless - deeply underwater. Had we considered a deed-in-lieu? I explained that from what I had heard, lenders were not making DILs easy, but if they wanted to work with me and make it convenient and easy, I would be happy to do a DIL. However, I had no intention of fighting with them over it for the next several months.

She then began asking questions about the financial situation. Income? Huge paycut. Is there any other income? No. How many people in the house? How many cars do you own?

At that point I stopped her and said I wasn't interested in providing financial details. She stated that they needed to prove hardship in order to consider the DIL, i.e. income, other expenses, other assets, etc. The house payment which now amounts to 66% of take-home pay apparently isn't sufficient.

I informed her that we have a purchase money mortgage. I.E, your recourse is to either foreclose on the house or accept a DIL. Period. There is no advantage to me to accept a DIL instead of a foreclosure. The effect on my credit rating is roughly the same, and I lose the house either way. Therefore, I see no reason to jump through hoops for you, outlining every single detail of my personal financial situation so you can pester and drive me nuts for the next several months.

There wasn't anything to talk about after that. DIL idea is dead in the water.

[overallthisbs]

sorry to hear it did not work out with WF, sounds like though you will be able to stay there a bit longer rent free, prob another three months, good to know it took them 5 months to do a NOD.

on another note, I spoke with a loan mod guy my friend of a friend reccomended, I am leary of these guys, he seemed to use scare tactics, telling me that armegeddon was right around the corner, yadda yadda, he wanted 500 up front and then 3500 once a mod is done, at this point I am done, don't want to pay anything to anyone. If the bank wants to work with me, here I am. Otherwise, they can take the house. We are cash rich, and healthy and will survive. It's only a house.

[deb64]

overallthisbs,

Yeah. I've grown to hate this house. I'm happy to wash my hands of it and move on. A DIL would have been nice in a way, just to have things properly wrapped up before we move on - but the DIL works to their benefit, not mine, so if they can't make it easy they can you-know-what.

I said the house payment is 66% of take-home. I meant the P&I only. The full PITI is 78%. Nothing but an anchor around our necks.

Here's to moving on and looking forward to whatever comes next

[overallthisbs]

I hear you, our 2 loans are about 50% of take home pay, then you take into account the prop taxes, hoa fees, astronomical water/trash bill (180), maintenance you have to pay for, it quickly gets to even more. And that is with UI payments, which will eventually end if I don't find a job soon.

the only reason I have seen to do a DIL is if there is a deliquent amount that they are willing to forgive, if not and you are scott free leaving, the mark on your credit is the same and you get to stay longer in the house with a foreclosure.

I am continually amazed at how many people try to talk me into a short sale or a DIL. I was on the phone with a consumer credit counseling agency the other day hoping they could help somewhat with my CC debt, they asked about the house and I told them we are leaving via foreclosure. Right away she tried to talk me into a short sale or DIL. When I pressed her to explain why this is a better solution for me in my specific situation, she had no answer other than it is better for your credit, which I explained to her is false and to look it up on fico.com. She didn't like that for whatever reason, wondering whom pays their workout fees, probably the banks, which is why she pushed that in the first place.

[medic]

I live in Orange County, CA. Anyone have an idea how long it is taking Chase to file a NOD. We are 3 months behind. No phone call, no letter, no person knocking on our door. If they file a NOD do they notify us in writing??

What is cash for keys? I keep reading this term.

[ProfessorShays]

The foreclosure trustee is required to send you a copy of the notice by certified mail (and will do so by regular mail also). You can also determine if a NOD has been filed by utilizing the Orange County Recorder's online grantor-grantee index. The link to that site is:
Grantor / Grantee Search - By Individual Person's Name:

"Cash for Keys" is a term used to define a situation that happens after your lender completes foreclosure. Rather than file an unlawful detainer to evict you from the premises, the lender offers you cash to leave voluntarily and leave the home clean and in good shape.

Daniel

[ClueLess]

I live in Orange County, CA. Anyone have an idea how long it is taking Chase to file a NOD. We are 3 months behind. No phone call, no letter, no person knocking on our door. If they file a NOD do they notify us in writing??

What is cash for keys? I keep reading this term.

medic:
I'm in Riverside County. Our 1st is with Chase. Our last payment was made Sept 08. NOD was filed on 2/18/09. They send you a letter in the mail about a week after recordation. You can also check on-line whether a NOD was filed.

http://www.enetwizard.com/shop/affil...01/default.asp

type your name in the grantor/grantee area.

[J2911]

Deb,
I love your response to WFB. They're our 1st lender too. I have no intention of giving them detailed financial information either when our time comes. We our now at the 60 days past due state. We would never be able to get a DIL anyway since we have a second, so that won't even be an issue. I hope it takes them at least 5 months to file our NOD.