Old 02-28-2009, 07:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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my plan of attack - is it in vain?

Would love some advice on my situation. Lot's of experience on these forums that I have been appreciating reading.
The payments on my mortgage are higher than my income and my savings has dwindled. I refinanced during a divorce and thought I could afford the payments. Now it is just a matter of time until the money runs out. I really want to dispose of the financial burden and relocate to California for a fresh start. Currently live in Washington. I have an underwater mortgage...
owe $285,000 -- house is worth $240,000 on zillow. what steps can i take to move on and deal with the house?
Renting is out of the question as I probably could only rent for $1200/mo. my payments are $2400/mo.
I have a 40year conventional loan with PMI. Countrywide is my lender.
I have read so much information about stuff and my head is swimming!
Deed-in-lieu sounds pretty good considering the economy and housing market.
Advice, experiences?
Thanks for your feedback
::analog::


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Old 02-28-2009, 08:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Underwater mortgage, can't afford and need to move

Do you have just a single loan on the property?

Daniel
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Underwater mortgage, can't afford and need to move

yes, only one loan
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Underwater mortgage, can't afford and need to move

Given the facts as you've indicated them, the likely course of action your lender will take is to follow a non-judicial foreclosure path.

According to one online source, if the non-judicial foreclosure process is used by the lender, then it cannot sue for a deficiency judgment. On judicial foreclosure sales, the borrower can be sued for a deficiency, unless the property is found to be abandoned for six (6) months before the decree of foreclosure.

The appropriate Washington State laws are provided below that appear to confirm this statement.

Daniel

61.24.100
Deficiency judgments - Foreclosure - Trustee's sale - Application of chapter.


(1) Except to the extent permitted in this section for deeds of trust securing commercial loans, a deficiency judgment shall not be obtained on the obligations secured by a deed of trust against any borrower, grantor, or guarantor after a trustee's sale under that deed of trust.

(2)(a) Nothing in this chapter precludes an action against any person liable on the obligations secured by a deed of trust or any guarantor prior to a notice of trustee's sale being given pursuant to this chapter or after the discontinuance of the trustee's sale.

(b) No action under (a) of this subsection precludes the beneficiary from commencing a judicial foreclosure or trustee's sale under the deed of trust after the completion or dismissal of that action.

(3) This chapter does not preclude any one or more of the following after a trustee's sale under a deed of trust securing a commercial loan executed after June 11, 1998:

(a)(i) To the extent the fair value of the property sold at the trustee's sale to the beneficiary or an affiliate of the beneficiary is less than the unpaid obligation secured by the deed of trust immediately prior to the trustee's sale, an action for a deficiency judgment against the borrower or grantor, if such person or persons was timely given the notices under RCW 61.24.040, for (A) any decrease in the fair value of the property caused by waste to the property committed by the borrower or grantor, respectively, after the deed of trust is granted, and (B) the wrongful retention of any rents, insurance proceeds, or condemnation awards by the borrower or grantor, respectively, that are otherwise owed to the beneficiary.

(ii) This subsection (3)(a) does not apply to any property that is occupied by the borrower as its principal residence as of the date of the trustee's sale;

(b) Any judicial or nonjudicial foreclosures of any other deeds of trust, mortgages, security agreements, or other security interests or liens covering any real or personal property granted to secure the obligation that was secured by the deed of trust foreclosed; or

(c) Subject to this section, an action for a deficiency judgment against a guarantor if the guarantor is timely given the notices under RCW 61.24.042.

(4) Any action referred to in subsection (3)(a) and (c) of this section shall be commenced within one year after the date of the trustee's sale, or a later date to which the liable party otherwise agrees in writing with the beneficiary after the notice of foreclosure is given, plus any period during which the action is prohibited by a bankruptcy, insolvency, moratorium, or other similar debtor protection statute. If there occurs more than one trustee's sale under a deed of trust securing a commercial loan or if trustee's sales are made pursuant to two or more deeds of trust securing the same commercial loan, the one-year limitation in this section begins on the date of the last of those trustee's sales.

(5) In any action against a guarantor following a trustee's sale under a deed of trust securing a commercial loan, the guarantor may request the court or other appropriate adjudicator to determine, or the court or other appropriate adjudicator may in its discretion determine, the fair value of the property sold at the sale and the deficiency judgment against the guarantor shall be for an amount equal to the sum of the total amount owed to the beneficiary by the guarantor as of the date of the trustee's sale, less the fair value of the property sold at the trustee's sale or the sale price paid at the trustee's sale, whichever is greater, plus interest on the amount of the deficiency from the date of the trustee's sale at the rate provided in the guaranty, the deed of trust, or in any other contracts evidencing the debt secured by the deed of trust, as applicable, and any costs, expenses, and fees that are provided for in any contract evidencing the guarantor's liability for such a judgment. If any other security is sold to satisfy the same debt prior to the entry of a deficiency judgment against the guarantor, the fair value of that security, as calculated in the manner applicable to the property sold at the trustee's sale, shall be added to the fair value of the property sold at the trustee's sale as of the date that additional security is foreclosed. This section is in lieu of any right any guarantor would otherwise have to establish an upset price pursuant to RCW 61.12.060 prior to a trustee's sale.

(6) A guarantor granting a deed of trust to secure its guaranty of a commercial loan shall be subject to a deficiency judgment following a trustee's sale under that deed of trust only to the extent stated in subsection (3)(a)(i) of this section. If the deed of trust encumbers the guarantor's principal residence, the guarantor shall be entitled to receive an amount up to the homestead exemption set forth in RCW 6.13.030, without regard to the effect of RCW 6.13.080(2), from the bid at the foreclosure or trustee's sale accepted by the sheriff or trustee prior to the application of the bid to the guarantor's obligation.

(7) A beneficiary's acceptance of a deed in lieu of a trustee's sale under a deed of trust securing a commercial loan exonerates the guarantor from any liability for the debt secured thereby except to the extent the guarantor otherwise agrees as part of the deed in lieu transaction.

(8) This chapter does not preclude a beneficiary from foreclosing a deed of trust in the same manner as a real property mortgage and this section does not apply to such a foreclosure.

(9) Any contract, note, deed of trust, or guaranty may, by its express language, prohibit the recovery of any portion or all of a deficiency after the property encumbered by the deed of trust securing a commercial loan is sold at a trustee's sale.

(10) A trustee's sale under a deed of trust securing a commercial loan does not preclude an action to collect or enforce any obligation of a borrower or guarantor if that obligation, or the substantial equivalent of that obligation, was not secured by the deed of trust.

(11) Unless the guarantor otherwise agrees, a trustee's sale shall not impair any right or agreement of a guarantor to be reimbursed by a borrower or grantor for a deficiency judgment against the guarantor.

(12) Notwithstanding anything in this section to the contrary, the rights and obligations of any borrower, grantor, and guarantor following a trustee's sale under a deed of trust securing a commercial loan or any guaranty of such a loan executed prior to June 11, 1998, shall be determined in accordance with the laws existing prior to June 11, 1998.

[1998 c 295 § 12; 1990 c 111 § 2; 1965 c 74 § 10.]
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Underwater mortgage, can't afford and need to move

wow, that is a lot of legal information..
is a non-judicial foreclosure something my lender will bring to the table?
I am planning on calling Countrywide's "Financial Hardship Assistance" 800 number on Monday to begin discussing my situation.
I tried working with a Housing Counseling agency, but have waited, and waited, for a counselor to contact me. they are so backed up.
I am running out of time because my plans for california are lining up and i need to move there by June 2009.
Is the lender likely going to suggest a short-sale first?
thanks !!
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Underwater mortgage, can't afford and need to move

While everyone in this forum would like to see their lender take a more active role in resolving the issues, truth is they seem paralyzed in a pathetic sort of way when it comes to assisting borrowers. They will likely have no other recommendations than bring your loan current.

Lenders choose to follow the non-judicial foreclosure path simply because is it quicker and doesn't cost nearly as much to pursue as the judicial approach to foreclosure. True in Washington, they give up their right to go after you for a deficiency judgment, but chances of ultimately collecting are typically in doubt.

Daniel
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Underwater mortgage, can't afford and need to move

thanks, you've been helpful
when i call them, do i say -- please grant me a non-judicial foreclosure.
is it worthless to ask for a deed-in-lieu. They kind of sound similar.
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Underwater mortgage, can't afford and need to move

You are giving them too much credit in terms of meeting your expectations. You don't ask them to do a non-judicial foreclosure. They will make that decision on their own. Deeds in lieu are challenging to get because the lender needs to be sure there are no junior liens at the time they acquire the property and additionally there are issues of marketability because of the potential the lender will be required to return ownership to the bankruptcy estate of a borrower in the event the borrower files a bankruptcy petition.

When they call, it is probably best to let them know that you do not intend to keep the home. Also as a courtesy, you should advise them when you vacate the home so they can secure it and make sure it doesn't get vandalized.

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Old 03-01-2009, 04:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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PMI and foreclosure

Hi - i have a 40 year fixed conventional loan with PMI. Currently residing in Washington. I am struggling with the mortgage payments after a divorce, and simply can not afford them. Savings is dwindling to an eventual big zero. Maybe will hit zero in 6-8 months. Have made plans to move to california in three months, but alas, have a house with an underwater mortgage. Want to use the funds i have available now for first, last and a deposit on a rental.
Am going to start calling Countrywide tomorrow.
Was hoping some people could tell me their experience with not wanting to keep a house but also not wanting any long-term ramifications from CW or PMI.
If i call them, will they suggest a short-sale? Should i list it before calling?
If after 90 days the house doesn't sell can i request a deed-in-lieu?
If they refuse a deed-in-lieu do I walk away?
Am i going to get sued by the PMI company? or because i have PMI i will be safe?
Am i going to get sued in three years? Seriously, are we protected long-term?
Should i stop making payments during the short sale process?
thanks so much!
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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my plan of attack - is it in vain?

i want out. i want out in 3 months.
I haven't listed the home, yet. But am about to.
I am about to begin the actions of submitting hardship letter, finances and evidence of an MLS listing to confirm the beginnings of an attempt of a short sale.
After 90 days i want to write a second letter demanding a deed-in-lieu.
I have been barely making the payments, but just can't afford it anymore. My $$ is dwindling and i am miserable.

Is my plan in vain?

I have Countrywide and a 40 year fixed with PMI underwater by 50 grand.
thanks
analog
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: my plan of attack - is it in vain?

Analog wrote, "After 90 days i want to write a second letter demanding a deed-in-lieu."

You can demand a DIL but it won't help your situation. The tone of your letter should not be couched in terms of "demanding," but "offering" a DIL so the lender can gain ownership and dispose of the property as quickly as possible to cut their losses.

Daniel
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: my plan of attack - is it in vain?

Hi - thank you. I understand to be of a requesting nature as it really is their choice.
Do you think my plan is okay? I really don;t think my house will sell due to the saturation of homes listed in my area. I am under the impression that I can't request a DIL without being in a short sale listing scenario for 90 days. Has anyone ever requested a DIL successfully without having it listed for 90 days?

feeling confused about my moves, but am certain that i can't afford to live here much longer.
thanks so much for your advice
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: my plan of attack - is it in vain?

My sense is to suggest that the decision making process be done in as non-emotional manner as possible (I often suggest that it be treated more as a business decision). As you read through these threads, you will find someone ahead of where you are in the process, and you will identify their story as a repeat of your story. Through the process of educating yourself by reading these threads you will be in a much better position to make an informed decision that meets your personal objectives.

Yes, I'm dancing around directly answering your question and that is for a specific reason. The decision on what course of action you take should be yours and not mine.

Daniel
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