Old 02-16-2009, 11:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Walking in California - ISO Sensible Advice!

First off, thank you to the participants on this forum. You are like me: intelligent, reasonable people who are simply looking for a sensible solution to stop throwing good money after bad.

My situation is simple, and I would value your advice on what to do. I own a condo in Orange County, California. I did the right thing: I put 20% down, and have a 1st mortgage only with Countrywide where I owe 525K. The property is currently worth 475-500K. Foreclosures in my area are mounting, home values are plummeting, and I do not want to throw more good money after bad. Nor do I want to take more of a hit than necessary on my hard earned sterling credit (FICO score > 800).

I am not a hardship situation, meaning I have savings and a good income. I simply cannot see the sense in continuing to pay on an asset that may take more than a decade to recover in value, if then. I want to avoid both foreclosure and short sale. They both sound like painful processes, and a short sale in particular is not the easy out that many people seem to think it is.

Your advice please: am I a candidate for a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure (DIL), and if so, where do I go for assistance? I do not want to go it alone, and I do not want to cut corners on costs only to get myself deeper in the hole. If I need a competent real estate attorney, how do I find one in Orange County who I can trust?

This is my home we're talking about, but I'm taking the advice of this forum and taking a business-minded approach: I have a business problem and I need a sensible business solution. Please send me your sensible advice. Thank you!


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Old 02-16-2009, 12:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Walking in California - ISO Sensible Advice!

I would be attempting a "short sale," explaining to Countrywide (now BofA) that this is in their best interests given that you could simply walk leaving them holding the bag. Bottom line is in the scheme of things a short sale will have the least effect on your credit as measured with the DIL or foreclosure routes.

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Old 02-16-2009, 04:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Walking in California - ISO Sensible Advice!

I understand that there may be a longer wait after a foreclosure than a short (at least that's the policy this week), but why can't FICO just come out and say on their web site what their spokesman has already admitted to the Wall Street Journal?


Quote:
What short sales and deeds in lieu of foreclosure don't do is minimize the impact on a borrower's credit score. All three proceedings have roughly the same negative impact on an individual's credit score, says Craig Watts, spokesman for Fair Isaac Corp., which created the widely used FICO score.


Family Finances: Two Alternatives to Foreclosure The Wall Street Journal Sunday July 27, 2008 Sunday


Copyright 2008 Factiva ®, from Dow Jones
All Rights Reserved


(Copyright (c) 2008, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)
The Wall Street Journal Sunday

July 27, 2008 Sunday

SECTION: Pg. 2

LENGTH: 833 words

HEADLINE: Family Finances: Two Alternatives to Foreclosure

BYLINE: By Emily Green

BODY:


The housing legislation that is close to becoming law may help as many as 500,000 cash-strapped homeowners avoid foreclosure, by assisting them in refinancing into more-affordable government-backed mortgages.

But since many struggling borrowers may not qualify, people facing foreclosure should also familiarize themselves with two other options: "short sales" and "deed in lieu of foreclosure" transactions.

Neither option will keep you from losing your house or avoid severe damage to your credit score. Still, they may be less painful in some ways than foreclosure, the legal process in which the bank repossesses a homeowner's property because of failure to meet the terms of the mortgage.

In a short sale, the borrower sells the house at a fair market value that is less than the amount owed on the mortgage, and the lender usually agrees to forgive the remainder of the debt.

In the other option, the borrower hands over the property to the lender with the lender's consent "in lieu of" waiting for foreclosure. The obligation falls on the lender to sell the house; as in a short sale, the lender typically agrees to forgive the amount by which the mortgage balance exceeds the house's current value.

A key advantage of both strategies is that most individuals walk away from their house freed of their mortgage debt, a psychological and legal relief, says Vicki Vidal, an associate vice president at the Mortgage Bankers Association.

In contrast, in foreclosure proceedings, lenders can theoretically pursue the differential owed to them, depending on state law. The great majority of lenders don't pursue this debt, but it has occurred, particularly in cases where the borrower vandalized the property upon departure.

A second benefit of short sales and deeds in lieu of foreclosure is that borrowers will generally face a shorter waiting period before they can obtain another mortgage.

Many lenders primarily make loans that they can sell to big mortgage players Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Starting Aug. 1, Fannie Mae generally will not buy loans made to borrowers involved in a short sale in the past two years. That's shorter than the four-year wait time if you have a deed in lieu of foreclosure on your record, and the five-year wait time if you have a foreclosure on record. (The current wait time is four years for a foreclosure or a deed in lieu of foreclosure; there is no existing policy for borrowers with a short sale.)

Freddie Mac generally won't guarantee loans made to borrowers who have had a foreclosure in the past four years, says Freddie Mac spokesman Brad German. (If the foreclosure was due to circumstances beyond the borrower's control, such as a medical emergency, then Freddie Mac will guarantee the loan in two years' time). The company considers short sales and deeds in lieu of foreclosure a significant negative but not an "automatic no," says Mr. German.

What short sales and deeds in lieu of foreclosure don't do is minimize the impact on a borrower's credit score. All three proceedings have roughly the same negative impact on an individual's credit score, says Craig Watts, spokesman for Fair Isaac Corp., which created the widely used FICO score.

Mr. Watts says that to date little analysis has been done distinguishing, for instance, the credit risk of individuals who completed a short sale versus those involved in a foreclosure. For that reason, "the model ends up treating them [a short sale, a deed in lieu of foreclosure, and a foreclosure] all the same."

If homeowners are interested in pursuing a short sale, they should open discussions with their lender or loan servicer before attempting to sell their house.

For both short sales and deeds in lieu of foreclosure, borrowers will have to present a "hardship letter" to the lender or servicer detailing why they are unable to make their mortgage payments.

Lenders have shown increasing willingness to negotiate short sales and deeds in lieu of foreclosure because of the losses they frequently incur in foreclosures.

Short sales are considered preferable because they save lenders the hassle of selling the house. But a deed in lieu of foreclosure also has its advantages to lenders versus foreclosure: "The earlier they get the home, the better the condition the property is in," says Ms. Vidal of the Mortgage Bankers Association.

Still, for both short sales and deeds in lieu of foreclosure, the process of negotiating with lenders can quickly become complicated. If a borrower took out second and third mortgages, he or she may need to negotiate with multiple firms.

Whether attempting a short sale or a deed in lieu of foreclosure, borrowers should take a "proactive approach," says John Snyder, homeowner specialist with the nonprofit NeighborWorks America.

He recommends that borrowers who foresee problems making their mortgage payments contact a nonprofit organization to help them negotiate with their lending institution.

---

Email: emily.green@wsj.com

License this article from Dow Jones Reprint Service

NOTES:
PUBLISHER: Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

LOAD-DATE: July 29, 2008
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Walking in California - ISO Sensible Advice!

Daniel, thank you for your reply. Can I please ask you to elaborate on a couple of points, namely:

1. What is the best way for me to demonstrate hardship to the lender, given that I have savings and income?

2. What made you suggest short sale over DIL in my case? I am interested to hear what aspect(s) of my situation made you recommend short sale over the alternatives. (Or did it have to do with who my lender is?)

3. Finally, the forums on this site indicated that a DIL is preferable to the alternatives in terms of its credit score impact. But the WSJ article in this thread indicated otherwise. Do you know what is currently the case?

Thank you in advance for your responses, I know it will help a lot of people. Of course, I welcome insights from others as well!
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Walking in California - ISO Sensible Advice!

The key in all of this is viewing the situation from the position of your lender. They have a secured loan. The loan is likely "non-recourse" meaning you have no personal liability and their sole recourse is to foreclose on the home. You need to point that out to them by explaining that under California Code of Civil Procedure Section 580b, given you are not personally liable and real estate prices are headed South, that a quick sale at a reasonable price (being a distressed sale price) will help to mitigate their potential loss.

I would agree with the quote from the Wall Street Journal, but things may change and I do believe that a short sale is worth a try. If it does not succeed, worse case is you get to spend more time living in the home without making a payment.

Good luck,

Daniel
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Walking in California - ISO Sensible Advice!

Daniel,

I have done further research showing that lenders are disinclined to support DIL, as you also indicated.

My remaining question then is, do you believe that their disinclination to own the property will allow them to overlook hardship requirements? In other words, could "hardship" become less of a factor? I have savings and a good income, and wish my short sale request to be based on it being the sensible course of action, not because I can't pay my mortgage. I just don't want to throw good money after bad.

Thank you in advance for your opinions.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Walking in California - ISO Sensible Advice!

Despite claims that it matters, we are dealing with lenders and not parents. Hardship is overrated. What isn't is the plain and simple financial realities. Your debt is non-recourse. That means the only problem a foreclosure will cause you is a hit to your credit rating. I'd be focused on that when discussing the matter with your lender. Let them know you are willing to take a hit on your credit. That position is a show of strength. It says, "hey, why don't we work together and short sale this property so as to make this an effective salvage operation which results in reducing the lender's overall loss." The quid pro quo is that there is the potential that a short sale might have a less adverse impact on your credit rating (recognizing that recent "reliable" sources reported on this site suggest that isn't the case with DILs, short sales, and foreclosures resulting in the same FICO score reductions).

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