Walking Away in FL - Recourse State

[Enough Already]

Hi js6596,

Thanks for posting. As you've probably read in this thread I've decided to try for a short sale. Everyone's situation is different. The best advice I can give is to keep reading and researching. This forum has a TON of info. Also do a google search for FL asset protection, and FL mortgage deficiency judgments. You'll find lots of helpful info. The more you read the more you'll learn, and that will help you to decide which way to go.

Another thing I'd suggest is that you copy and paste your post above and start a new thread of your own, so that more forum participants will see it, and chime in with their advice.

Good luck to you!

[Enough Already]

Epluribus,

You're exactly right. The banks seem to be absolutely insane. Almost nothing they've done makes sense.

[GettingThere]

Enough -

Thanks for your input. I was back and forth with the decision to walk from one or both mortgages. In the end, I decided to get the loan off of the property to make the DIL more likely. Also, the only missed payments will be on the one mortgage, so explaining that blemish will be easier to justify when I comes time to purchase again in the future, especially if the DIL is successful. I also wanted to minimize the headache of dealing with banks, so I opted to deal with only one in this case. The loan amount is under $10k, so I'll be paying it off well before the 12% can hurt. My main goal is to get out from under the house and be able to recover credit-wise as quickly as possible. A DIL with the 2nd "paid in full" and no other delinquent payments, I'm hoping, will allow for a speedier recovery.

Epluribus -

It sounds like you were dealing with the mortgage department in trying to get the second mortgage paid off with a personal loan. In order to get this to happen, you'll need to call the bank and speak with someone in their "apply for new loans" department. You will have to qualify for the loan, and I'm not sure what your debt/income situation looks like, so this may or may not work for you.
If you look at post #124 from EnoughAlready, this is another option if the personal loan isn't right for you. I'm not sure what your 2nd mortgage balance is, so the interest may bring pain... In your situation, a short sale may be best, simply because it seems you are pretty close to market value, compared to some. When you say you owe $250k, is that including the 2nd mortgage?

[rural juror]

FYI... Even though the bank keeps insurance on the property, it's possible that they don't consider YOU as one of the insured. A friend of mine is going through foreclosure, a pipe burst in the second floor bathroom and it flooded the first floor. She found out that none of her personal property was covered because the mortgage company did not include her or her personal property in the policy.

Originally Posted by Enough Already

Hi Epluribus,

Yes, our taxes and insurance were paid with the mortgage payment. We have not been paying those either. The real estate attorney we spoke with told us not to worry about those. The bank keeps insurance on the place, since they hold the loan, and they will be responsible for the taxes too.

Don't take my word for it though. I would definitely recommend having a consultation with a RE attorney. We learned a lot and it really put our minds at ease.

It's been 9 months since our last payment - it will 10 months as of Oct 1. The bank still hasn't filed a NOD (notice of default). We're really hoping for the short sale to be accepted, so we can move on.

[NotinPA]

Originally Posted by Enough Already

Hi js6596,

Thanks for posting. As you've probably read in this thread I've decided to try for a short sale. Everyone's situation is different. The best advice I can give is to keep reading and researching. This forum has a TON of info. Also do a google search for FL asset protection, and FL mortgage deficiency judgments. You'll find lots of helpful info. The more you read the more you'll learn, and that will help you to decide which way to go.

Another thing I'd suggest is that you copy and paste your post above and start a new thread of your own, so that more forum participants will see it, and chime in with their advice.

Good luck to you!

Just handed over my financials to the third party vendor working on my short sale for the mortgage servicer. I am shaking a little bit. Although, as I was scanning and emailing, I kept telling myself :almost nothing is private anymore:

If they really wanted to find out all of my financials they could, it is just that simple. If I was off the financial grid, and did not use banks and had a privacy trust setup(which I am working on)then maybe it would be harder for them.

Why am I so nervous? Maybe is the outcome of them asking for money at the closing or making me sign a promissory note. It doesn't look like I will get out of not signing or bringing money.

[Enough Already]

Hi NotinPA,

I completely understand how you feel. Every time we have to provide info the bank it's totally nerve racking. We had to send a few extra things to them yesterday, and I was bent out of shape the rest of the day.

Do you have a good real estate agent experienced in short sales, or an attorney to represent you? You may want someone on your side to help with negotiations.

[NotinPA]

Hi Enough,

I do have an RE attorney lined up for when the closing docs come in.

He stated they want all the financials to determined if they can go after the DJ or whatever they want..

Without having to pay mortgage and all the expenses that go along with the house..they are probably going to say I can afford something (as long as I have a job)..even though I have CC debt.

I don't see a way out of not signing a note..any suggestions?

[Enough Already]

Hi NotinPA,

Our realtor's strategy is to play hard ball with the bank. He has quite a bit of experience in dealing with the banks and negotiating forgiveness of the debt. The buyer has also already agreed that he is ready to increase his offer to help settle any difference between what the bank will accept and their original offer price.

His first goal it go leave us owning nothing. On past short sales he's worked on he's gone so far as to walk away from the bank, walk away from the negotiations, and come back to them 2-3 month later to see if they're now willing to settle it, and close the deal. If there's just no way to get off with zero owed we are willing to settle for a reasonable amount.

If all efforts fail we will not sign off on the sale of the house. Our loans are recourse, so we're it does us no good to agree to the short sale if they don't agree to forgive the debt. We see no reason to hand them a short sale, and save them all the time, trouble and money of foreclosing, if they aren't willing to work with us too. We need a little cooperation. We don't want to be too greedy, but we do want a reasonable resolution. For us that would not include winding up with a "soft note" for the deficiency.

From all my reading it sounds like should be willing to settle for around 5% - 10% of the loan balance. Of course, I have no first hand experience yet. I'm just muddling through this myself, but I hope this helps.

Good luck! Please keep us posted.

[NotinPA]

Cool. I think I will show my realtor these tatics.
On another topic, did u have your BPO done yet?
Mine had been ordered but not done yet. However
I've been told that they will not disclose the results.
Does anyone know why?

[Enough Already]

NotinPA,

Yes, we finally got our BPO done 2 weeks ago. It took them about 10 weeks from the time we submitted the offer to get it done. Our realtor told us the same thing, that they never give out the BPO info. Although, he said if they make a counter offer we will find out their appraised value at that time.

I'm hoping to hear back soon. From the time of the BPO they estimated about 30 days to hear back on the approval. If they're running on time (why would they be?) we should have an answer within a couple more weeks. Fingers crossed!

EA

[GettingThere]

Just a quick update on our situation...not much has changed.

Our information and hardship letter have been submitted to the PMI company for approval of the deed-in-lieu. Apparently, if they don't approve, then the credit union can't either. I haven't heard of this being the case, but if that's how they're going to operate, then so be it.

As of now, we are more than 70 days delinquent.

Anyone else making progress?

Thanks!

[Enough Already]

Hi all,

I posted this info in the short sale forum, but thought I should post here for those following our story:

We heard from our attorney on 10/14 that the 1st mortgage holder is close to giving us the SS approval. The 2nd has gone to the Recovery Dept to be charged off. My realtor is not alarmed by this. He says this is where the negotiation is normally done with the 2nd (depending on the bank). Anyway, the words recovery dept and charge off make me very nervous, but we're sitting tight. We should hear something from them by early Nov (seems like forever). The realtor is projecting a closing date by Nov 30th. I hope he's right. We'll see....

EA

[NotinPA]

This is great news!

I just scheduled the BPO for this Saturday.
To think it will take another 30+days ...oh man...this goes beyond patience.

[NotinPA]

This is great news!

I just scheduled the BPO for this Saturday.
To think it will take another 30+days ...oh man...this goes beyond patience.

[GettingThere]

Ok, here's our latest in case anyone is still following this thread.

The bank came back with an offer from the PMI company. They want us to sign a note for $25k at 0% interest for 7 years. In order to hear what the bank (lender) agrees to, I have to verbally "accept" the PMI offer. I'm going to do that over the phone in a dislclosed effort to hear what the bank wants. If we can get out for $25k, we may just do it.

Will update as things happen. If anyone has more specific questions, just reply.

Thanks and good luck!

[Enough Already]

Hi Gettingthere,

Thanks for the update. I hope they'll come up with an amount that is workable for you. Please do continue keep us posted.

Good luck!

[Enough Already]

UPDATE:

Good news from our realtor today, the short sale has been approved by the 1st lender!! This is great news and gives us hope that the end may be in sight.

Now, all we have to do is get the 2nd lender to agree to the short sale, and to let us off the hook with reasonable terms. We are willing to bring some money to closing, but we are not willing to carry a soft note for years.

I guess negotiations with the 2nd lender are more than half the battle, so we're not there yet, but we are getting closer.

EA

[NewDad]

Good to hear, EA!! Fine print, fine print, fine print ... don't let 'em pull any fast ones on ya!

[Enough Already]

Thanks NewDad. Yes, we will certainly be going through the paperwork with a fine tooth comb before signing anything!

[jdgin]

Hi Enough Already,

I will be starting this whole process soon and I've read your entire thread here starting back in January. Congratulations on getting the 1st lender approval!

Did you end up using an attorney at all? Or did you just use your realtor in the negotiations?

Thanks again for posting your progress! It's certainly encouraging!

[Enough Already]

Hi jdgin,

Thanks for your post! The biggest hurdle seems to be negotiations with the 2nd lender. That is still ahead of us, so we've got our fingers crossed.

We did consult with both an asset protection attorney, and a real estate attorney (paid consultations with each). If we had decided to go the foreclosure route we would definitely have retained the RE attorney.

Things changed once we decided to try for the short sale. It became evident that we didn't really need to hire an attorney. What we needed was a realtor with plenty of short sale experience, and success with getting them negotiated and closed. through. The realtor we hired also works with a title company, and has a negotiation team. We were also lucky enough to have been referred to him by some friends.

One of the perks of going with a realtor is the bank pays their commission, so if they don't negotiate a deal that you and bank find acceptable, and the house does not sell as a result they don't make a dime. That being the case the realtor has plenty of incentive to make it happen.

It's very important though, that you get someone who has successfully negotiated and closed these types of sales (not just one or two, but several). Find out how many they've done. Do they seem confident etc. This short sale thing is new ball game and not everyone knows how to play yet.

It seems that a lot of attorneys have suddenly gone into the real estate business. They see there's money to be made, so why not? An attorney gets a retainer from you, and (if successful) also gets a commission from the bank at the close of the short sale.

I saw your thread in the short sale forum regarding using a RE agent vs. an Attorney, so I'll post this response there too.

Good luck, and please keep me posted.

EA

[jdgin]

Thanks EA!
It sounds like you've found a good realtor. My property is located in Tampa Bay - are you located nearby and if so, would you be able to provide a reference?

[we're_still_reviewing]

Enough,

How did you have a buyer that waited all this time to settle ? You must have lucked out. Most buyers I don't think would have been as patient.

Glad the end seems to be in sight

[QuayzyCrazy]

Guys,
Do any of you happen to know or have a good attorney in the South Florida area that you could recommend to me? I really need a good advise here. I'm located in Miami and I want a good referral. I'm just like you in a very difficult position between a hard wall and a rock and I don't know what else to do. If anyone has read my other thread, here is my previous info in this forum: $%$^$%. CW/BofA/Fannie Mae Loan - HAMP request Denied because too much credit card debt????!!!!
I need someone to guide and help me thru this process and carefully confirm our chances and our options if quiting this american dream. I'm still not 100% convinced but according to what I hear I don't have a way out with this property besides walking away. I just cannot believe it. Our property is underwater and we put all our savings in it and now after 2 years of struggling moments, I just realized that I just cannot go on like this anymore.
I really don't know if I should stop paying my credit cards as well-like right away. I'm a week behind in my mortgage and no savings left at all. My computer broke down, my car broke down, my savings are 0, my property is about 125K and I owe 152K. I make just enough to cover with only $25 buck after paying everything. If anything happens, no chance to pay for any type of problems. My piggy bank is long way gone. I don't have any other assets and my HOA fees are impossible to pay. I tried to apply for a HAMP but Countrywide/BofA/Fannie have declined my request because according to them I make too much. My payment is under the 31% -but my HOA fees are $1225 a month- and that's what is killing me, according to them. Yes, I know how dumb I was to have bought this property... Yes, Miami condo communities are crazy in that sense. But now, I just want to save something if possible. I'm thinking that if I don't pay my credit cards as of this month then I need to get that computer and fix my car before the s()&$^# hits the fan. In order to continue in my condo until I'm kicked out I'm going to need continue paying the HOA fees for a while, right? How long after that I may get a NOD? Thank you.

[Enough Already]

jdgin:
I would like to give you the our realtors information, but because this is the internet I have reservations about doing that. The best advice I can give is to do some Google searches for short sale realtors in your area, and then do phone interviews with the ones you contact. The most important thing is that they have experience with short sales, dealing with the banks, and have been successful in closing short sales, and negotiating deficiencies. I'm sorry I can't be more help on this, but I hope you understand.

we're still reviewing:
We have been lucky the buyers have hung in there all this time. The house is priced well, so our realtor feels that if the buyers did decide to walk away he could get another offer in right away. If the house is priced right you will get an offer or many offers. Some SS realtors take multiple offers to have back ups just in case someone gets fed up walks away.

QuazyCrazy:
You will want to continue to pay the HOA until the condo is either sold or foreclosed. Otherwise the HOA can come after you for unpaid fees. To find an attorney do a Google search in your area for real estate attorneys. As far as the NOD, I have not made a payment since Dec 2008 and they have not yet filed the NOD. Even once they do file the NOD you've got about 6-9 months before they actually foreclose. Definitely talk to an attorney, or try to locate a realtor experienced in short sales in your area.

Good luck everyone!
EA