Walking Away in FL - Recourse State

[Enough Already]

Rim,
That is so sad. I'm in the Tampa Bay area. Is that where you're from? The property values here are way down, not as down as in AZ, but down. We haven't hit the point in my area yet where everyone is in mortgage trouble, but in my subdivision of 60 houses 5 are preforeclosure.

[RimToRimHiker]

Yes. Largo. I still manage/lease an office building the Tampa Bay area. I fly back to FL once or twice a month. I received an email from our old neighbor last night. They are going to try for a short sale. Sign went up a couple days ago. That had to have just about killed my friend. She has put so much of herself into the house especially the yard. She loved working in the garden. She would spend hours and hours out there. Yes very, very sad.

[SlammyR]

hi enough et al,

just an update on the main topic: we started receiving "courtesy" calls & a letter reminder about a week BEFORE our first payment was even late (not the 30 day late, the 15 day late!). since then, it's averaged about 2 or 3 calls a week (including weekends) for the past 2 weeks.

i sent them both a regular and certified return receipt letter (to the payment reminder address, "default adminstration" dept.) telling them i am aware of my payment terms, and that i could not pay due to my "emergency medical situation." i also reminded them we had tried to work with them 3 times before, and quoted their "60 day rule" before they'd be able to "talk". told them, if and when we reached the 60 day point, we'd talk to a qualified human being and not a telemarketer. until then, cease and desist with the "courtesy, payment reminder, or any other calls", and all future communication needed to be in writing.

i got my return receipt that was signed on the 26th, and i've already gotten a call yesterday and today (home and cell)! my question: what do i do if they don't comply?!

i also told my boss about the pending situation in case calls came to work (had to tell him the medical news anyway) and he was GREAT. what a relief in more ways than one.

so far, the calls are a minor annoyance and i'm still relieved with my decision. it really felt empowering to send them a certified letter before they sent me one! stick it to the man.....

[Enough Already]

Hi Slammy,
Thanks for the update.

It's amazing to me that they started calling before you were even late, it's like they knew you were thinking about it. As far as the certified letter you sent. I don't think they have to stop calling you, unless you specifically ask them not to contact you by phone, and only by letter and/or email. If you look up the posts by KT in CA she did just that and it worked out for her. She sited the Fair Debt Collection Act in her.

I'm thinking of doing the same thing myself. We decided we'd take their calls once a week, on Saturdays. My husband took the calls the past 2 weekends, but this past week they starting calling first thing on Monday morning anyway, and they called all week long, every single day, 4-5 times per day! The caller ID said JP Morgan Chase, but there were also calls from another number: 800 Service, but we weren't sure what/who that was. Well, first thing this morning, just before 9:00 AM we got a call from "800 Service" and I decided to pick up - it was a collections call from Chase. The lady was nice enough, but she just couldn't understand that we simply won't be making any more payments, we can't afford it etc. She offered to go over our financials to see if there are any other options for us to keep the house. I told her if they reduce our principle by 50% we can work with them. She told me if we come current we would be eligible for the HOPE for Homeowners government program. I let her know we aren't interested, we won't be able to keep the house, that we'll probably sell it (there's no way we can actually sell it, but maybe a short sale would fly, doubt it) and we can't afford it anyway. There's also no way we're giving them our financial info - they would come after us for sure. We can afford the house, but there's no room for anything else, and we just don't want to keep sinking our hard earned money into a black hole each month while barely scrapping by.

Anyway, we'll see how next week goes. If they are going to call 50 times a week we might just send them a certified letter asking them to contact us only via regular mail (I don't want them emailing us to death either). The other thing we might do is retain the foreclosure attorney we're planning to use, and direct the calls to his office. If we tell them to call our attorney I guess they have to leave us alone. The attorney says all he does is ignore their calls anyway, so who knows. I did find it very irritating to be called over and over last week.

Slammy, please continue to keep us posted. I hope you're feeling better too!

[KT in CA]

Yes I did send the letter. It went to the Homeowner's Assistance Department at AmTrust. That is the department all of their info said to contact. I faxed it one evening after the first and only phone call came in to my work. I sent it again the following morning, and then mailed it out certified. To my knowledge we have not received a phone call since that day.

We have gotten plenty of correspondence from them, and they seem to be following CA law. No NOD yet, and we are 3 months late this month. We did get our most recent mortgage statement and our escrow account has a negative balance after they paid the property taxes, but they did pay both the taxes and our homeowner's when it was due.

I hope you guys have the same luck. Maybe it just depends on the lender and how ruthless they are and how closely they follow the debt collection practices for the state.

[The Professor]

KT, I have doubts as to whether they paid your homeowners insurance. Past experience tells me that they likely provided the minimal insurance designed to protect their insurable interest. Please contact your insurance agent to see if the premium was paid on your homeowners insurance policy.

Daniel

[KT in CA]

Professor,

I contacted my insurance office (my mother used to work for a neighboring agent, so the people in this office know me and my family) in February before the premium was due. She said the bill had already gone out and that it would likely be paid out of our escrow since the money was in the account to pay for it. She also flagged to let me know if it wasn't paid by the end of February, and she said we would get a notice from them if it wasn't paid. All has been quiet so I imagine it was paid. And the amount that came out of our escrow on 2/17 matches the billed amount from the insurer that was due by 2/29. I will check on Monday to be sure, but I'm 99.9% positive it's fine. Thank you for your concern.

KT

[baileys dad]

KY,
my Nod was filed 0n 02/20 and I did not receive it in the mail until the last day allowable by law, which was 03/06. However, I had started receiving letters from people wanting to save me from my predicament. So, I called one of the realtors who had sent me a letter and asked what made her think I was needing to sell my home. She said that she had checked the county records and that I had received a NOD. The next day, I went down to the county and found out that was the case. You can also check online. Point being, my lender here in ca., has not wasted a minute in filing and there could be up to a two week lapse between the filing and you learning about it...

[The Professor]

KT, if that turns out to be the case, the day of the foreclosure sale be sure to notify your insurance company that you want the policy converted to a renters policy and to send the premium refund to you.

Daniel

[KT in CA]

Thank Professor. I definitely will put that on my list of things to take care of.

[SlammyR]

hey enough, did you ever send your c&d letter? i'm getting calls several times a day, home and cell, 8:30PM almost consistently. nothing at work so far. in my letter i was specific about "in writing only". now i don't know what to do since they are ignoring it. i'm certain speaking to a telemarketer will accomplish nothing.

[Enough Already]

Hi Slammy,

We haven't sent the letter yet. For some reason the calls pretty much stopped this week. It think we're now almost 90 days behind, so we may have moved from collections into the next department, loss mitigation? We'll see what happens with the calls next week.

After reading a blog post from a FL asset protection attorney, last week, we had a change of plans. The post was by the same attorney we consulted a couple of months ago. It basically said that although he hasn't seen it done a lot, there have been a couple of cases recently where after a few payments have been missed the 2nd mortgage lender is going ahead and suing the debtor on the note, BEFORE the foreclosure! If you want to read the blog I posted it under: Deficiency Judgments!, post #67.

Needless to say, this information scared us a bit, as we're not yet in position to protect our assets. We have 3-4 months before we'll be in the right position. So, in the mean time as a precaution, we've decided to bring our 2nd mortgage current and continue to make the payments until we've got everything in place.

I don't know if this was the right move or not. I think about it two ways - there's another $3000K down the drain on this house, but on the other hand it's sort of like an insurance policy, and paying it will keep our minds at ease for the next few months.

[jcrangel]

We finally decide not to send are payment in this month we put it in a saving account my husband is 74 retired from Gm and also get Social Security and from the State of Arizona total of about $2.500 but there is a but are house payment is $1,445 a month he has had to work at his age but he will be off this summer he is a school bus driver I had a large savings but it has dwindle when he has noted worked I made the differene we made a added what it takes just to pay house Hoa are light bill Gas Car insurance and the City of Goodyear and we will be lefted with about $200 we have about $2,900 of credit cards I have had many sleepless nights I hope we are doing the right thing we have began to do are hardship letter and paper work are loan is with ASC . My husband did not want to do this I had to write it down on paper oh we owe $187,000 and our home is worth about $90,000 at are age when will we see the end . WE are kinden thing of moving South cost of living is way less with what we get we should be able to be okay . But I worry they will come after us what too do I don't know I'am so sared this is all so new to us . My husband served his country we both have worked all are lives

[baileys dad]

Hello jrcangel,
whether or not they can come after you depends on if you used the loan money for purchase or refinance. I, for one, agree with your decision to move to an area where you and you husband can live out the rest of your years without worrying about this mortgage. My advise is to VERY CAREFULLY find a lawyer who can give you some advise. Ask some non-profit agencies for advise. You have plenty of time to make a plan.
Are you both on the loan or is it just your husband??

[baileys dad]

jcrangel,
you should click on "deed in lieu of foreclosure" at the top of this page and then click "Start new thread" so that you will have your own story and people can help you. Put your story in again and then you won't get lost on here

[The Professor]

jcrangel:

I agree with the need to start your own thread. My sense is once we are able to deal with the answers to a few questions I and other forum participants will be asking you will feel much better about your situation and the choices you will make.

Daniel

[Enough Already]

We received a letter today RE: ACCELERATION WARNING. It says if we fail to cure the default within 32 days Chase will accelerate the maturity of the loan....and commence foreclosure proceedings, all without further notice to you....

Is this the same as the NOD? As I understand it Chase will have to send us an official NOD, this is just a warning, but wanted to check to be sure.

I don't like this stuff.

I much prefer to pay all of my bills on time, and stay out of trouble. If only FL was a non-recourse state! I'm still trying to figure out if there's any other way out of this...short sale maybe, but it's such a long shot.

[AZChick]

Enough Already, I got the same letter, 30 days has come and past and still nothing......I'm waiting for Notice of Trustee Sale....

[cactus77727]

Enough Already,

This was a point of confusion for me too.
(See http://www.loansafe.org/forum/43459-post22.html )

I read my Deed of Trust for this Note(loan). In it, under the paragraph “Acceleration; Remedies” it states …upon Borrowers breach… of this Deed of Trust, the Lender prior to acceleration shall give notice to Borrower… specifying (1) the breach; (2) the action required to cure such breach; (3) a date not less than 10 days from the date the notice is mailed to Borrower, by which such breach must be cured; and (4) that failure to cure such breach on or before the date specified in the notice may result in acceleration of the sums secured by this Deed of Trust and sale of the Property.

It goes on to say that if I don’t cure the breach by the date in the letter (in my case 12/21/2008) that: the Lender can declare all sums due and payable… and may invoke the power of sale and any other remedies permitted by law.

So in conclusion, I think the letter dated 11/18/2008 is a notice of default but NOT the notice of trustee sale. It is the notice of breech required in my Deed of Trust document. So if I don’t pay up by 12/21/2008, then they may choose to invoke power of sale, and then record a Notice of Trustee Sale with the county.

The "Notice of Default and Notice of Intent to Foreclose" for me was the servicers going through the motions of the requirements outlined in my loan documents. Not any process required by state law. Note I'm in AZ, not FL. But you may be experiencing the same process.

In other words, they are going through the paper work motions, before they move on to legally filing foreclosure proceedings with the county or state.

Check your loan docs under: Default, Acceleration; Remedies or similar language. Hope this helps.

[Enough Already]

Thanks for the replies, AZChick & Cactus. To be sure we called our foreclosure attorney, and Cactus has it right. It's basically a sign that Chase is going through the motions and preparing to start the foreclosure if we don't bring the mortgage current. We've got no plans to do that, so we'll see what happens in 32 days (or 32 days from the date of the letter which was 4/4/09). I'll keep everyone posted.

Thanks, again!

[SlammyR]

hold fast, enough. we got a letter telling us if we wanted to secure the equity in our home, and didn't want a hit to my credit, we needed to come current with payment right away. got a chuckle on that one! my lender is ignoring my c&d letter. i answered one call, to remind them of the letter and that i will not communicate unless in writing only. they stated they knew nothing of the letter. i can ignore the calls easy enough, it's just the principle of it! i'm going to review the fair debt collection practices rules again.

i also got a notice on my credit from the lender, but only a new acct. nothing negative on it at all. guess they are getting ready to "update" and refresh it as needed. whoopeedeee-do.

anyway, i am committed to my path. once my credit starts to go south, i can't get it back by making a payment or doing a short sale, so i will let this process take it's full course. credit is the least of my worries. and after a few doses of chemo, a mortgage lender can't do much worse to me! haha! makes it real easy to not give a crap about them, in the grand scheme of things.

they have to follow a procedure. if they throw in some scare tactics and strong language, you have to realize that's all it is. good thing you have an attny. to pass everything by. mine reminds me it's all a set procedure and nothing the lender can do above and beyond the foreclosure (and no real need for an attny for it in our state to let it happen). if a dj comes down the road, i'll deal with it then. frankly, i'm hoping i'll be here to see it!

i feel better for you that you came current on your 2nd. that's one less thing complicating my decision. it seems those can be worse to tango with than the firsts.

be in touch and thanks for your updates!

[BinAZ]

Enough Already, I'll be curious to see if the 2nd will try to settle with you after the 1st forecloses.

[Enough Already]

Hi Slammy,
Nice to hear from you. I'm so sorry to hear about everything you're going through. It really puts things into the proper prospective. Like you said - who gives a crap about the mortgage in the grand scheme of things!?

I realized, after I'd already made the payment to catch the 2nd mortgage up, that I should have contacted our foreclosure attorney first. I made a dumb move, a move in fear, and I didn't think it through properly.

A few days later we called the attorney about the Acceleration Warning letter, and we asked him about paying the 2nd current too. He said not to pay them, and not to worry or lose sleep over it. He said it would take the lender at least 6 months to get a judgment against us, and he can defend it. In our case if they sue us on the note it will amount to about the same thing as suing us for the deficiency. Once we've moved back into our other house we'll be able to protect our assets/cash with FL homestead laws, and there won't be much to worry about. We'll be trying to settle the debt at that point. So, back to plan A. Unfortunately, we blew $1000 on that, but lesson learned.

About the c&d letter - did you send it certified? That's what another forum member, KT in CA did and it seemed to work for her.

BinAZ, I'm interested to see how this goes too. I'll keep everyone posted.

Slammy, Wishing you all the best. Check in again when you can.

[Enough Already]

UPDATE:

We are now 90 days late on the payments. We got a nice mortgage statement letting us know we'll need to pay about $10K to bring it current - not going to happen.

We have not received the NOD yet. I'm hoping it will be delivered soon. I (like everyone else) would really like to get this behind us, but it seems I will have to be patient. It took time to get into this mess, so I guess it will take some time to get out.

We also received a collections call on my husbands business line last night. Until now they have only been calling our home number. I'm expecting calls to start coming to my work now as well.

Our foreclosure attorney told us to call when we get the NOD, pay the retainer and he'll take over. But, he said if the collections calls become too bothersome we can pay the retainer ahead of the NOD and direct all of the calls to his office. I think that's what we'll go ahead and do. I do not want them calling my work, my family, or my neighbors.

Other than that there's not much to report (which is a good thing).

[Enough Already]

Update:

Well, we've officially paid the foreclosure attorney's retainer, and can start sending the collections calls his office. I was trying to hold out for the NOD, but the calls are getting to be too much.

The attorney says we can tell anyone to calls that we are represented by an attorney, give his name and number, and from there on they are supposed to contact him, not us.

He says to keep a log of any calls that come in after that, get the person name, number etc because if the continue to call it's something he can hold over the lenders head when negotiations start.

Or plan right now is to move out at the end of July or so. As soon as we do that the attorney will go to work to get us through the foreclosure and negotiate a settlement, or forgiveness of the debt. We will also list the house for short sale once we've moved out in case selling it is possible.

I'll keep posting for anyone who's interested. There seems to be a shortage of info for people in recourse states.

Thank you!