My Strategic Default in Olympia Washington (1st BOA, 2nd Green Tree)

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Hey Zach, welcome to LoanSafe and my journey. Its good to see my posts are helpful. Sometimes it gets lonely during the walk, which is why you will find great information, confirmation and comfort in visiting here often.

I'm pretty sure it was TomEason's advice originally inspired me. The way I see it is this...If you do NOT want to stay long term in your house and keep it, but just milk the free rent as long as possible, I totally subscribe to the "zero contact" strategy. That means that the phone rings off the hook, they send you piles of letters and you file them all and talk to nobody.

I'm 4 months down the road and I haven't talked to anyone and I'm going to keep it that way. Once the foreclosure is complete and its time to consider settling the 2nd, I will probably talk with GT.

Start your walk and start saving.

Hope that helps!

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Figured it was time for an update. All is quiet at the moment. Not much mail, only a few calls in the last two weeks. I'm expecting a formal NOD at some point, but who knows when. I've received a couple letters from someone supposedly working on behalf of Fannie Mae (Real Time Resolutions) urging me to take their offer of FREE mortgage assistance. They urge me to "Take Control of your financial situation". What in the heck do they think I'm doing? Letting them run the show? The irony of it all.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Only exciting thing that's happened recently is that we received another visit from a "bank representative" to see if anyone was living in the house. They came to the door and my wife said, yes. So they said thanks, and left. Wow, this is progress! Sheeeesh!

Anyway, other than that, just receiving montly statements, letters from organizations that claim they can help us modify our loan. A few calls here and there from GreenTree. BOA sends letters to urge us to attend a seminar for homeowners to help avoid foreclosure.

Oh, and I'm stockpiling cash and paying off my debts. What would I have done differently if I coudl start this all over....nothing. Staying the course in Olympia!

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Forgot to post my timeline update. Still haven't received a phone call from BOA. I'm wondering if I will get a call before they send the NOD?

Last pmt on BOA 1st: 3/14/2012 (160 days)
# of Calls thusfar: ZERO
Last pmt on GT 2nd: 4/11/2012 (132 days)
# of Calls thusfar: lots, but dwindling

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Pretty quiet still. I started getting about a call per day from the same GreenTree collector a few weeks back, so I added those phone#s to my blocked voice # list on Sprint (its a beautiful thing). So I probably wont hear from them for a while. Socking cash into savings so I can pay off debts come year end. Still no calls from BOA. Not sure when NOD will come, but right now I'm into the sweet spot of my timeline. If we received NOD today, we would still be into 2013 before we would have to move. Hoping for a Sprint 2013 move out, but anything longer than that is gravy!

[vantuckian]

I wonder if BOA is waiting for the market to recover a bit more so they can break even when they resell after foreclosure.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Don't tease me....I can only dream of a scenario like that. Because that would mean 5-10 years of rent free living here! Anyway, seriously, I hope that is the case.

[SnoqualmieDream]

Please give me advice on my thread: Divorce in WA

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Received a bill from BOA today. Uh oh....I'm way behind on my payment!!!! Oh wait, I don't care.

[Celticwalker]

Heya Strategic.

We started our walk back in March as well...and I was honestly getting a bit concerned that BoA hadn't been more aggressive in contacting us our pursuing the foreclosure procedures. It sounds like you and I are in the same boat with communications, socking away savings and waiting for them to finally come at take the darn house back. I'm just tickled that I have enough money saved up at this point that I'll be able to pay first, last, deposit, pay for movers and pay off a few bills. If BoA wants to continue to drag their feet...I won't complain. Rent free living is great!

[katwalker]

I wonder if BOA is waiting for the market to recover a bit more so they can break even when they resell after foreclosure.

ugh I hope not. I don't want to pay utilities or insurance any longer than I have to.

[DoneWithBS-WA]

StrategicDefaultInWA
First and foremost, thank you for posting up such an elaborate story with consistent updates on your situation.

Second, I too have a 2nd mortgage with GreenTree ($62k - part of an 80/20 purchase) so it's great to have an exact reference to my potential situation with this lender in WA State. I have been considering walking away for about 2 years now and, each time I think I'm ready to pull the trigger, I basically chicken out because I fear retaliation (being sued) by GreenTree on my 2nd, as I'm aware that they could come after me if they chose to do so. Also, I've always had stellar credit that I've utilized to do and buy many things, and letting that go to crap is just a hard pill to swallow. However, I've exhausted all of my options, and I'm tired of my first mortgage payment increasing by 7.5% every year (Wells Fargo pay option ARM ) and the fact that I owe $330k on a home that's currently worth $180-200k...

Long story short, your story has inspired me to just pull the trigger. If you have any additional advice you could share that you haven't already shared in this thread, please do send it my way. I want out of this 6 year nightmare!

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

DoneWithBS-WA, first of all, good for you! There is an old saying for boat buyers that goes like this....Do you know the 2 happiest days in a boat owners life? Answer: They day you buy it and the day you sell it. Its a lot of fun in between, but its so true. I say that because I think its safe to coin a new adage...Do you know the two best days in an underwater homeowners life? Answer: They day you bought it and the day you walked away! So true.

I share that because really, we were overjoyed when we had our house built and could never think of a time when that would change, never imagined selling it, let alone letting the bank have it back. Lots of stress with bills piling up and debt, etc. The single most relieving financial decision I've ever made was realizing that I could walk away (strategically default). The day I finally met with a lawyer for a reality check, I offically never made another payment and the weight off my back was imeasurable. Now we have a stockpile of cash and I'm finally on track to be completely out of debt by the end of the year where there was no clear timetable for that when I was chained to the underwater home.

I don't want to preach at you, but just want you to feel the relief that is truly just around the corner. From what I've learned, and this is not "legal advice"...the worst that could happen is GreenTree could sue you at some point. Very, very unlikely. Even if they did, they would likely settle for pennies on the dollar and way before that they would try to settle ahead of time. Do you know why they are unlikely to sue in most cases? Because most of the time they get nothing and lose money in the process! If you are insolvent, and its easy to find out here, there is little they can do.

I know this because its so consistently chronicled here.

One other tip I learned from the gurus here...if you've made up your mind to walk, don't talk to the banks. Just stop paying and ingore their collection calls. Block their numbers or better yet send a Cease and Desist letter like other here. Very simple and the phone stops ringing. Live rent free for as long as possible and stockpile the cash.

Trust me, the best plan is savings over credit. I had great credit as well, heck, they loved me! Because I was maxed out most of the time and always paid on time! Gave me more and more.

Anyway, best of fortune in your walk. Hope this helped.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Interesting development. After a long silence, BOA finally called today. Didn't leave a message, but I did a reverse lookup on the 800 number.

[roxygirl]

I am a little further than you ( a lot further) in the process. you will prob have several more months of those notices before the NOD. I stopped paying in Oct. 2011. i just got my NOS 2 days ago. sale date isn't until mid january 2013. this initially freaked me out because i thought about if the mortgage debt relief doesn't pass for next year! - i just read in WSJ that if we are in a non-recourse state, then it doesn't matter weather or not this bill passes...IRS cannot tax the forgiven debt as income. thank goodness! - i had several certified mail pieces that i had to sign for. (3 copies of the same thing) so you will def know what is happening make no mistake. i just think you still have a while. so enjoy!

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Roxygirl, thanks for the update. I skipped my first payment in April 2012 and hadn't received a call from BOA until two days ago. I got another call yesterday and a human left a message. I'm hearing news that banks like BOA are starting to process the backlog of foreclosures on the books. I'm curious, did you get the same silent treatment from BOA during your walk?

[roxygirl]

Roxygirl, thanks for the update. I skipped my first payment in April 2012 and hadn't received a call from BOA until two days ago. I got another call yesterday and a human left a message. I'm hearing news that banks like BOA are starting to process the backlog of foreclosures on the books. I'm curious, did you get the same silent treatment from BOA during your walk?

just plan on it taking a year. it doesn't matter if you call, or don't call. there is nothing you can do to hurry it along....only to play the hampster wheel if you want to delay it, which i had no interest in doing. The process is what it is, and washington is catching up now and plan on about a year or less now. good luck with everything. I am staying put until December. Sale is Jan 2013. just feel very fortunate that in our state it matters not if the mortgage debt relief is passed. that was a big burden and stress lifted.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Right, call, don't call, got it. All that I know. I just wanted to ask a basic question about your walk....Did you receive routine calls from BOA during your walk and if so, when did they start? Thanks in advance.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Incredible news today!!!! BOA sent me a really cool package. I wondered if I would be so lucky and receive this opportunity. Check it....

Trial Period Plan Offer

It works like this....I agree to make three payments for approximately $2,400 a month for three months. If I do this and continue to meet all of the elegibility requimrents, my mortgage will become permanently modified. Yippeeee!!!! I'm so lucky.....uhhh, oh, wait a second....My current payment is about $2,300 a month. Duh, guess my math isn't so good. They want me to pay more than my regular payment, so they can get $7,200 out of me, then stick it to me by denying my modification request, getting my fanancials and suing my butt?

Yah, I'll pass. What a joke.

Anyway, I have untl 11/1/2012 to make my first trial payment otherwise bad stuff happens. That's the good news. Bring on the bad stuff!

I journey on.....

[vantuckian]

lol, what a great offer! you have to wonder if any human reviewed the numbers in the package before sending it out. what a waste of (taxpayer!) money to send these laughable packages out.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

I seriously doubt it. I guess its not uncommon to have BOA offer a trial period where the payments are more than your regular payment on the current mortgage. Well, at least I know someone else that had the same offer. His was done face to face while working with a bank rep that was trying to help him get a modification to stay in the house. He wanted to stay, but couldn't afford the payments anymore. So they ask him to pay more for 3+ months on a trial....get real!!!

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

I checked my credit score today. I registered with IdentityGuard which I've used in the past and CreditKarma. According to IdentityGuard, my TransUnion score has plumeted from its once lofty position to 568 (oh, boo hoo). Unfortunately, I can't say exactly what my score was at its peak because I'm not sure. It was excellent though like in the upport 700's. CreditKarma has my "TransRisk" score at 664. I recently ditched LifeLock because their score monitoring and updates were like once a year. My opinion is that CreditKarma is way inflated...probably because they want you to feel "happy" and click on the sales offerings. Words like "happy" and "credit score" are not likely to intersect in my vocabulary in a complimentary way anytime soon. So I will stick with IdentityGuard. I will say that CreditKarma's user interface is far superior for presenting information and also being the most accurate and current on my account balances.

Other than that, not much to report. Daily calls from BOA and/or GreenTree. BOA said I had until October 11th to take their trial offer otherwise things would happen. Its the 15th and I'm still waiting.....

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Got a surprise visit today from a secret admirer? Got a cheap yellow door hanger today, just had a 1-800 number and a message to call someone named _ _ _. Turns out its just a BOA phone number. So its a collection attempt. I have to give them props for the sneaky attempt, but my wife was quick to Google it and find several postings that identified it as a BOA collection arm. I searched my missed calls and it was one of the many I've allowed to go to voicemail.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Got a call today, thought it was from someone else so I answered....CRAP!!!! It was GreenTree. You never heard a debt collector so excited and talk so fast. I interrupted and said, I will be sending a C&D letter today and that they will need to make all future communcations via mail. They tried to weasel in a "so where are you at with....." and I hung up. Lesson learned, don't answer the phone and send the C&D. Oh well, it was just a teensy bit fun to cut them off.

[katwalker]

Starting in September real humans starting calling me.... They must have found my business contact info that is publicly available and called from a new toll free # that I had not yet blocked. I have to answer the phone, my income/business depends on getting new work from strangers. I just decline to give enough info to verify my identity & we don't have anything else to talk about.

[NewShoes]

1st missed pmt on BOA 1st: 10/1/11
1st missed pmt on GT 2nd: 7/1/11

Received certified mail this week expecting it to be the NOD. NOPE. It was a letter from GT warning of possible litigation. It caught me off guard since we haven't received a NOD yet and it is a little scary, but I am going to ignore it and hope it is just a scare tactic.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Hey NewShoes, its good to hear from you as we are both with the same lenders. I reacquainted myself with your walk. I guess I'm surprised that you haven't received a NOD yet. Well that's good news for you and me! That means that I could be looking at a similar timeline as you (I hope). I hear what you are saying about GT. Its easy for me to talk tough until I get served a notice to show up in court and I'm getting sued. Well, that hasn't happended, so I will just keep talking tough. Seriously though, I'm guessing your letter is a scare tactic. I haven't heard of the 2nd's suing in WA before settling the first. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it seems rare at best.

I don't know if you read my recent post, but I accidently answered the phone for a GT collection call. Man sakes alive, you've never heard a more anxious collector. So that prompted me to send out my Cease & Desist letters to BOA and GT using delivery confirmation. They should have received it today.

Just did a little trip down memory lane....I looked in my folder with all the correspondence. Its pretty fat now. The first thing in the folder is a receipt for the $100 I paid the attorney for a 1st time consultation. I actually chuckled when I saw it. Best $100 I've ever spent by far in my financial journey. I walked out of that office and never made another mortgage payment (1st or 2nd). I also remember something he told me...If the 2nd sues, you can settle and if you settle, it will be for pennies on the dollar. I figure worst case, I owe them the full $95k left on my 2nd...which is pretty unlikely. More likely is that I hold out, they threaten me and I stand my ground and say, sue me and if they do, I will file bankruptcy and they get nothing! However, if they are smart they would say, hey how about you pay us $5k and we call it even. I would do that. So I'm in it for the duration.

Stand strong NewShoes and please keep me updated on your walk. Thanks!

[Washington Walkers]

1st missed pmt on BOA 1st: 10/1/11
1st missed pmt on GT 2nd: 7/1/11

Received certified mail this week expecting it to be the NOD. NOPE. It was a letter from GT warning of possible litigation. It caught me off guard since we haven't received a NOD yet and it is a little scary, but I am going to ignore it and hope it is just a scare tactic.

Fascinating. I am about 6 months into our walk, and we have the same lenders (BofA 1st and GT 2nd). Before reading your post I was expecting our NOD any day, but now I am starting to wonder if it might be quite some time before that happens. I assume it's highly variable from property to property. NewShoes, is there anything unique about your situation that might be causing more delay?

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Washington Walkers...I find this fascinating as well. All 3 of us have the same 1st/2nd lenders. I'm hoping others will chime in here as well. If NewShoes is a basis for a pattern, then we may be looking at 18-24 months from end-to-end. I'm certainly willing to hang out here as long as they allow. Since none of us have received a formal NOD, we are at least 150 days out worst case.

[Washington Walkers]

Washington Walkers...I find this fascinating as well. All 3 of us have the same 1st/2nd lenders. I'm hoping others will chime in here as well. If NewShoes is a basis for a pattern, then we may be looking at 18-24 months from end-to-end. I'm certainly willing to hang out here as long as they allow. Since none of us have received a formal NOD, we are at least 150 days out worst case.

BofA/GT defaulters unite! Hey, how do you reach the 150-day calculation? I'm sure you're right, I just don't know how you got there.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

its probably more like 120 at least. here is a link for timelines.... Washington Foreclosure Laws and Statutes | WA

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Its been a couple weeks since I sent out the Cease and Desist letters to BOA and GT. Its been pretty much silent with no calls from them in the last week. So that was worth the time. We sent them certified with return receipt and I received one of them back (from GT). So I can stick that in my file.

[NewShoes]

In my case, when I said BoA (1st) and GT (2nd) it was because my loans are serviced by them. I received a letter this week that a new company will be servicing my 1st. The investor on my 1st is the Bank of New York Mellon (originally CountryWide) and the servicing has been transferred from BoA to Bayview Loan Servicing. Has anyone heard of them or had any experience with them in WA state?

Bayview sent a debt validation letter letting me know I have the right to dispute the debt otherwise it will be assumed valid. In WA, does anyone know if there is any benefit to obtaining debt verification? I am no longer living in the house and have no desire to postpone foreclosure.


1st missed pmt on 1st: 10/1/11
1st missed pmt on 2nd: 7/1/11 (Investor, BoA; Servicer, GT)

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Hey NewShoes, did you get an answer/opinion on your question? I'm not up on this, but I would assume that if you wanted to stretch things out that requesting proof that Bayview has the right to collect on the debt could prolong things. So if you are wanting to draw this to closure, then it seems counterproductive to make that request. However, I will say this....I've heard stories (okay maybe myth, legend, etc.) of folks making such requests and not hearing back from the lender. Its as if the chain of actual loan documents has been broken and the lender actually can't prove they own the loan and have the right to collect.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

Okay, its been over 2 weeks since I sent out the Cease & Desist letters to BOA and GT. Both were sent Certified with Return Receipt. I received both of the return receipts from BOA and GT. I haven't received a call since. Rent free living without the annoying phone calls.....nice!!!

[LadyWalker]

SDIW - Thank you for writing about your journey. You have inspired me to take the walk. I, too, am with BOA. I will see an attorney, but my main question is about financial stuff. I have an IRA, college accounts for my kids, and a small savings. They are all with BOA. I read about an 'offset'; if your mortgage is also where you have your financial affairs, the bank can take your funds. Many posts discuss squirreling away funds...is this placing the money in a shoe box under your bed, or creating other bank accounts? I don't want to sacrifice my kids', or my, future. Thank you so much.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

LW, I'm glad that my journey has been of value to someone. BOA only holds my mortgage and my other finances are held elsewere. When folks talk about squirreling away funds, they are talking about saving it up at a bank. I would assume that from other comments I've seen that strategic defaulters are trying to separate their assets from the mortgage holder if they keep all of their money there. I don't know of anyone that is tucking away their cash under the bed so to speak. I'm not familiar with the "offset" concept. I would run all of this past your attorney. Regarding your "small savings", trust me, it will grow if you stop paying your mortgage and keep socking it away. By the way, do you live in Washington?

[LadyWalker]

Thank you so much, SDIW. I am still pretty naive, and scared, of all of this. I will see the attorney next week, and you have helped put my mind at ease. From research, I have learned that BOA has the right to access any funds held in their institution if a mortgage is defaulted on. Right now, I have everything there. So my first step is to change banks. Please keep posting, you have helped me more than you know. I live in Lacey. I will post, too, once I get going.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

LW, thanks for the info on your situation. Its a great help to all here to have so many scenarios documented. Clearly you want to move your assets to another bank ASAP. Denfiintely meet with an attorney. I met with one in Olympia for a one-time consult and it was well worth the $100 I spent for the information and peace of mind. Question...are you saying that you have an "Offset Mortgage" or are you just referring in general to the term "offset"?

[stephanies]

Thank you so much, SDIW. I am still pretty naive, and scared, of all of this. I will see the attorney next week, and you have helped put my mind at ease. From research, I have learned that BOA has the right to access any funds held in their institution if a mortgage is defaulted on. Right now, I have everything there. So my first step is to change banks. Please keep posting, you have helped me more than you know. I live in Lacey. I will post, too, once I get going.

Lady Walker, I would definitely move your other assets from the bank as soon as possible, at least any savings in your name.. I do not believe that they can access your IRA, but for now, before you see the attorney, I would open an account elsewhere, perhaps somewhere like BECU or a local bank.

I too am in washington state, and it appears that BOA is dumping the servicing on all of its non performing loans to other 'subservicers' that are basically just acting as collection agencies. Also educate yourself on the new foreclosure laws of our state, you can access that through the Attorney general's website.