Walking Away in Maryland - My Journey - starting July 1, 2011

[Cathy34]

I am starting one last thread about my Maryland "walk" because I want to journal it all from the start.

Current Mortgage: 216,000
Monthly Payments (including tax and insurance): $1437
Current Property Value: $145,000 (in perfect condition - this one is in big trouble with septic & foundation)
First Missed Payment: July 1, 2011


WE ARE ON OUR WAY.

Today is July 14. My first house payment will be late after tomorrow. But I finally got in to see the attorney today. I called two attorneys - a real estate guy and a BK guy. Real estate guy said he didn't even want to take my money because he couldn't help me and it would be throwing good money after bad.

The BK guy made me feel SO much better. Very nice man and very knowledgeable. He basically said that if he were in our shoes he would not only walk but also include the CC debt and file BK. Unfortunately, we have filed BK before and it is only once every 8 years now (I thought it was 7 years) so we still have 15 months before we can file again. He said that the way all the FCs around here have been going with BofA, if he were in our shoes, he would stop paying the mortgage NOW and the CCs. Makes me a bit nervous because what if they came after us in 6 months. He was totally nonpressure, though, which I really appreciated.

Tonight my husband and I are going out to eat and will sit and talk about this and make our final decision. As far as walking away - that WILL happen. As far as BK for our CC debts - that WILL happen. The only hesitation on our part now is whether or not we stop paying NOW or wait a few months. I wish things were easier, ya know?

Cathy

[Cathy34]

Information I forgot to add:

Things wrong with the house: Septic failing, plumbing failing, downstairs bathroom doesn't work, kitchen needs a complete overhauling (really bad), back steps crumbling, sidewalk crumbling, house sinking, walls cracking, doors sticking (because of house sinking), basement flooding...you get the picture, I'm sure.

Our attorney said that he didn't think that we would ever gain equity in this house in our lifetime. He also said that he felt doing a BK was the way to go since it will protect us from a deficiency judgment here in Maryland. He didn't make me feel guilty that this would be Bk #2 (for two very separate but valid reasons, he said). He also said that he felt that 20 years from now we would probably be in a very bad position should we still be living here, and then retirement would be very difficult for us because we would just be starting our "walk away". He also thought that purchasing a vehicle like we did last week was a very smart move.

I'm trying to remember everything he said but I'm sure I've forgotten some things. Just ask if you have a question. Sailordude inspired me to journal my experience. His has helped me so much. I hope this helps someone as well.

[incognito]

Hi Cathy34,

I'm so glad that you talked to the attorney and that it helped you to make your decision. I know you've been very conflicted and scared in working your way up to your decision. I hope it will give you some peace of mind!

It really does sound like you are making the right decision for your family. The issues with your house are not going to go away and going deeper into debt to try to fix a house that you will never see a dime from is a losing battle. Look to the future and keep your chin up. I am convinced that this will get easier once the first missed payment is behind us

[Cathy34]

Today is 7/16/11 and I am officially late now. It's a Saturday, so I'm thinking I probably won't get any calls until Monday, at the earliest. I had, however, gone to the BofA website a month ago and changed all of my contact information to bogus phone numbers so I may have a little bit longer before I hear from them. Or they may hunt down my husband a little bit faster because of it. Who knows. I have the C&D letter written but don't know where I should send it, so I haven't done that part of it yet.

In the mean time, as I said yesterday, I did see a lawyer, which was a deal sealer for me. He felt we were doing the right thing, right down to filing BK when we can - which will be 15 months from now. Sounds like a long time, but it's really not. However, it makes me a little nervous stopping payments now and not knowing when the FC might happen or the deficiency complaint, for that matter. Of course, we have NO assets so there is nothing for them to come after. We just can't file BK until October of 2012 due to a previous BK (I feel like a serial BK'er but the attorney said these are totally different circumstances and to not worry about that).

One thing that the attorney said on Thursday was to stop paying all cc bills. After I got home and started doing some research online I came to the conclusion that we could have our wages garnished within 4-6 months if we didn't pay the CCs. That made me a little nervous. I emailed my attorney and he said for the CCs, it is possible, so if we want to pay the minimum payments until BK time, that might be a good idea. On the mortgage, though, he said to stick with the plan and don't pay. We have him on retainer until then anyways, so if he has to he will go to bat for us.

So back to the CCs. I'd actually like some opinions here. Our minimum payments on the CCs every month is $1132. Nothing to sneeze at, for sure. But, I'm pretty sure that my husband is the primary card holder on only one of those CCs, with a minimum payment of $22. The rest are me. I did some research last night and it is my understanding that they can only garnish the wages of the primary cardholder. Anyone know if that is correct? I've emailed my poor attorney again, but haven't heard back, yet. I do work, but don't make near the money my husband does. The only actualy wages I make via check with taxes taken out, etc. is under $600 per month. The other money I make is through consulting and the amounts vary, but are still under $600 more per month. If I were to have my wages garnished, they can't take the whole paycheck, I don't think. And would they even be able to garnish consulting fees from different entities? I'm trying to figure out whether to just pay the minimum on my husbands card and let the others all go. I'd still be saving over $1000 per month. And if they garnished my entire paycheck it would still be a savings to me. Some embarrassment would be added to that, but I can live with embarrassment if I'm saving substantial money. KWIM?

My other idea is to just s.u.c.k. it up and pay the $1132 minimum payments for the next 10 or 11 months and then, at that point, default on the CCs about 4 months before I file BK. As you can see, I'm doing a lot of thinking.

In the mean time, we are planning on living in this house for about another year. We aren't going to fix anything up except to make our lives a bit easier (downstairs bathroom doesn't work at all except the bathtub and my youngest dd doesn't have a bedroom and is sleeping in the playroom which looks like the inside of a hoarder's house because it's being used for storage right now). We will downsize as much as we possibly can, which I think will be significant. We won't even worry about cash-for-keys because we have a very old house. The stairs were built in much later, cut out of the ceiling, and getting furniture up and down is nigh unto impossible. We usually have to go over the balcony from our bedroom. We don't have much of value up there that we'd want to keep. We won't trash the place, but there will be furniture left behind - couches, beds, dressers, etc. Definitely not worth anything that we could get for C4K, I'm sure. We'll take our stove, frig, desk, tvs (even though they are ancient, they work), computers, and maybe the girls' beds.

We are still worried that we won't have an easy time finding a decent rental around here, as things are getting harder and harder to find, I think, as more and more people are renting. We, at this point, always have the choice to move in to my dad's house next door. However, we really don't want to do that. One bathroom, in bad repair, etc. But the option is there so we won't be out on the street unless is loan mod fails and he walks, too!

For now, we're trying to plan ahead while at the same time taking one day at a time.

Onward and forward.

Cathy

[CRM7514]

Hi Cathy,
I am also from md and have bofa as a lender.We have been trying to get a loan mod since 4/10 and have not made a payment on first or second mtg since. We did file bk in july of last year on cc and the house but then decided to try and stay. Since then we have decided to move on because we came across a rental in our area and could'nt pass it up. Dont worry about bofa they wont come after you for at least 2 yrs.They are the worst and our laywer even told us that. Enjoy the extra money while you can pay bills and put some away for the rental,we had to pay a double deposit due to our situation,but we were up front and most people understand how things are. Good Luck!

[Cathy34]

Thanks for the note, CRM - I know when we saw our lawyer and I told him Bofa was our lender, he just laughed and said, "Enjoy the free rent as long as you can stand to stay in the area (don't like it here but I do like the free rent). Originally he told us to stop paying the cc, too. But now we're not doing that since we're not filing for bk for 15 months. I don't want to chance my husband's paycheck being garnished. Sigh. We're taking $1000 of our first missed mortgage payment this month and sending it to the attorney as a retainer. Yay! :-)

Yay on your rental property, too. I was looking hard for a rental place until I realized the free rent here is very important for us right now since we're in such a financial hole. Now, every once in a while I drive by a place and take a good look and then remember I've got probably a good stretch of time in front of me that I need to concentrate on SAVING SAVING SAVING!

Enjoy your new home!

Hi Cathy,
I am also from md and have bofa as a lender.We have been trying to get a loan mod since 4/10 and have not made a payment on first or second mtg since. We did file bk in july of last year on cc and the house but then decided to try and stay. Since then we have decided to move on because we came across a rental in our area and could'nt pass it up. Dont worry about bofa they wont come after you for at least 2 yrs.They are the worst and our laywer even told us that. Enjoy the extra money while you can pay bills and put some away for the rental,we had to pay a double deposit due to our situation,but we were up front and most people understand how things are. Good Luck!

[Cathy34]

Current Mortgage: 216,000
Monthly Payments (including tax and insurance): $1437
Current Property Value: $145,000 (in perfect condition - this one is in big trouble with septic & foundation)
First Missed Payment: July 1, 2011

Today is July 17. I thought I was late yesterday but it is late AFTER the 16th not ON the 16th. So I am now officially late. The phone calls have started. The first one was at 10:00 a.m. and all it said on the caller ID was "Loan Administration." There was another phone call about an hour later with no info on it. I ignored both and neither one left a message.

I still haven't sent a C&D letter and am debating whether to do that or not. I suppose if they start calling my husband's work # then I will have to do that. He's gone this week burying his mother. Then next week we go on vacation for a week, so if they are leaving him messages at work, he should know by the time he gets back at the beginning of August.

I'd actually forgotten about being stressed about this journey. After that first phone call today, it all came flooding back, reminding me to get my retainer fee for my attorney in the mail today! (Attorney is to help with any deficiency judgment and to file bk in a little over a year).

[soabucks]

I stopped paying on my house in Maryland in July of 2010. What a complete boondoggle it was. Not only was it in the dump of PG county I came to despise, but the house had a catastrophic septic line failure, furnace failure, was nearly hit by a huge aged tree, roofing failure, water tank failure, flooding, foundation and structural problems, and generally lame construction to begin with (leaky vinyl/gypsum.) All this shit was missed by the fraud of an inspector who looked at the place, who was of course recommended by the fraud of a realtor who also recommended the fraud of an appraiser.

I made more than enough money to pay the mortgage. It just ****ed. It was a really really bad investment and I felt I was victimized by predatory encouragement. When I was initially unable to afford the house, they found "creative" ways to enable me to buy it. As of today, my 400+k house is worth about 200k, having lost roughly 51% of its value. Attempts to rent it out resulted in ridiculously large financial losses even after rental loss tax relief, and so I just stopped paying. I can't imagine how long it would even take to be able to move, especially if I got a job elsewhere--I was already commuting an hour to work, one way.

The primary lender, BOFA, has not done much of anything in a year. Sent me bills and late notices, and then in May of 2011 or so, sent me a letter of intent to foreclose. Wells Fargo charged off my 20% loan in January of 2011, and then filed a court complaint in April or so.

These banks are already in a lot of trouble for the unscrupulous tactics they used to put people into way too much home, at way too high prices. Hell, if my house had cost me even 300k, if the price hadn't been run up due to bad lending and appraisal, I might have even ****ed it up and stayed, or rented it out. But I was paying 50% of my income to live somewhere I hated. It was killing me inside.

I've talked to a BK attorney and have the plan of filing BK13 and wiping out Wells if they push the issue, but they have already scheduled me on a docket for a proposed lawsuit once, and then rescheduled. I am not communicating with them and am willing to let them waste their time pursuing deficiency and garnishment if they like, because I despise usurious American banks like Wells Fargo, and am willing to sacrifice my credit score, some legal fees, and a bit of my time for the cause of making them pay for what they did to our housing market and our lives.

You know, high markups are for furniture stores and used car lots, not people's HOMES. They knew what they were doing and they posed a serious threat to America's future security by allowing all this to happen for the sake of greed. And I am going to enjoy watching them collapse.

The thing about your BK is that even if you file it after a deficiency judgment, I am pretty sure you can still apply the BK retroactively to that judgment when you get around to filing it. Filing it late only means that you will have to pay at the rate the circuit court decides for the bank until the BK court decides through the mediator. Your attorney will know more about that. I doubt they will even be awarded a garnishment by October of 2012.

If you intend to rope the CC into your BK, you are better served giving that $1132 to an attorney to come up with a definitive answer to your special garnishment questions, rather than just making needless payments out of fear or worry, when you intend to default on the debt anyway.

As far as phone calls, I only carry a cell and I have long since routed any bank phone numbers to voice mail, and my voice mail isn't even set up on my phone. Too bad, so sad. I live for myself, not their worries. My phone is for me, and not them.

[KerryES]

Hi Cathy - Thanks for sharing your story. I am in MD as well and just starting my journey. Would you recommend your BK attorney? If so, would you mind passing on his information?
Thank you!

[Cathy34]

Oh, I would definitely recommend my attorney. He definitely is an understanding, knowledgeable guy. His name is John C. Hanrahan. He's in Frederick. You can find him in the phone book. :-)

Hi Cathy - Thanks for sharing your story. I am in MD as well and just starting my journey. Would you recommend your BK attorney? If so, would you mind passing on his information?
Thank you!

[Cathy34]

soabucks:

Thank you for your telling your story. It sounds a lot like ours - especially with all the things wrong with the house and so many of them should have been revealed with the inspection. We now live in a quaint little town (as in about 200-300 people living here) that use to be so full of history and nice people. Now it's full of history, lower class individuals, drugs, empty houses due to foreclosure, and houses for sale due to the oldsters of the town also dying off. My dad lives next door and we pretty much stay to ourselves around here. My dad is in the middle of trial mod payments. I think, eventually, he'll have to leave. In fact, we plan on trying to take him with us when we leave! Until then, we'll sit tight and SAVE, SAVE, SAVE. Though our first payment went to the lawyer. Our second payment will go to my girls' school, third payment will go to the lawyer. THEN we'll start saving! We also used one of our credit cards this month because our window air conditioner in our bedroom went out and our room is 110+ degrees by late afternoon. So we'll continue cc payments for a while. We don't want to be accused of cc fraud!

Good luck with your walk! Tomorrow is my one month anniversary so I will update then! :-)

[Cathy34]

Today is August 1 and I have officially missed my second payment. I've been gone for a week and I turned off my answering machine before I left. I see on my caller ID that I was receiving 1 to 2 calls from "Loan Admin" per day, just like before. One in the morning and one in the evening. I've received no calls on either of our cells. My husband hasn't received any calls at work, either. There are also a lot of "unknown" calls and 800 calls. I'm guessing some or BofA.

Today I got a letter from BofA telling me that my payment is late for July and they are charging me a late fee of $54.89. They send a convenient payment coupon and envelope for me to send that in to them.

I also got a letter of insurance cancellation today which kind of scared me. I've been with this insurance company for 13 years and NEVER made a claim. Found out that I've been paying 3 times more than normal for a house like mine. Almost $1400 per year! I was already working with another insurance company to get out from under the other one. However, they may find the same things wrong and deny me, too. I'm not sure what to do about it all. I don't want to put any more money into this place so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the new company doesn't turn me down. My back steps are still solid but they are starting to crumble a little bit. My sidewalk out front is not in good shape but here in this podunk, unincorporated town, I don't have to have a sidewalk. We're free to do whatever we want with it. So we'll see. I don't know what to do should insurance refuse me. Any takers on that one?

So as far as the phone calls and non-payment, I'm not stressed out, yet. But now I'm a little stressed on the insurance issue and hope someone knows more than me and can ease my mind on this.

As far as my credit cards, I am still using two of them so I'm still keeping up with my payments. We had some settling in that we needed to do to get prepared for this journey.

My husband told me today that while he was at his mom's funeral (in another state) a couple of weeks ago he was approached by an acquaintance to do some computer work for this guy's company. My husband is very excited at the possibility. However, he also told me that it requires security clearance. I hate to disappoint him, but if we are FC and BK, he's probably not going to get security clearance any time soon. Ugh. Why couldn't this opportunity have come at some other time. Then again, if he were to make a lot more money, we'd have problems with BK'ing, which I really want as an option here in case of deficiency judgment.

Complications are arising, but we're still good. Still good. Hoping to start saving $$ after this month.

[KnitterGal]

We are in a similar situation to yours, but in FL. We met with an attorney last week, and she advised us to go ahead and stop paying cc's and the mortgage. We are going to continue paying the cars as we intend to reaffirm them. So, today is our first time missing a payment on anything in years and I am seriously freaking out! Good luck to you and I will be following your story!

[Cathy34]

My Phone is for me, not them....

I love this quote and am taking it to heart!

I stopped paying on my house in Maryland in July of 2010. What a complete boondoggle it was. Not only was it in the dump of PG county I came to despise, but the house had a catastrophic septic line failure, furnace failure, was nearly hit by a huge aged tree, roofing failure, water tank failure, flooding, foundation and structural problems, and generally lame construction to begin with (leaky vinyl/gypsum.) All this shit was missed by the fraud of an inspector who looked at the place, who was of course recommended by the fraud of a realtor who also recommended the fraud of an appraiser.

I made more than enough money to pay the mortgage. It just ****ed. It was a really really bad investment and I felt I was victimized by predatory encouragement. When I was initially unable to afford the house, they found "creative" ways to enable me to buy it. As of today, my 400+k house is worth about 200k, having lost roughly 51% of its value. Attempts to rent it out resulted in ridiculously large financial losses even after rental loss tax relief, and so I just stopped paying. I can't imagine how long it would even take to be able to move, especially if I got a job elsewhere--I was already commuting an hour to work, one way.

The primary lender, BOFA, has not done much of anything in a year. Sent me bills and late notices, and then in May of 2011 or so, sent me a letter of intent to foreclose. Wells Fargo charged off my 20% loan in January of 2011, and then filed a court complaint in April or so.

These banks are already in a lot of trouble for the unscrupulous tactics they used to put people into way too much home, at way too high prices. Hell, if my house had cost me even 300k, if the price hadn't been run up due to bad lending and appraisal, I might have even ****ed it up and stayed, or rented it out. But I was paying 50% of my income to live somewhere I hated. It was killing me inside.

I've talked to a BK attorney and have the plan of filing BK13 and wiping out Wells if they push the issue, but they have already scheduled me on a docket for a proposed lawsuit once, and then rescheduled. I am not communicating with them and am willing to let them waste their time pursuing deficiency and garnishment if they like, because I despise usurious American banks like Wells Fargo, and am willing to sacrifice my credit score, some legal fees, and a bit of my time for the cause of making them pay for what they did to our housing market and our lives.

You know, high markups are for furniture stores and used car lots, not people's HOMES. They knew what they were doing and they posed a serious threat to America's future security by allowing all this to happen for the sake of greed. And I am going to enjoy watching them collapse.

The thing about your BK is that even if you file it after a deficiency judgment, I am pretty sure you can still apply the BK retroactively to that judgment when you get around to filing it. Filing it late only means that you will have to pay at the rate the circuit court decides for the bank until the BK court decides through the mediator. Your attorney will know more about that. I doubt they will even be awarded a garnishment by October of 2012.

If you intend to rope the CC into your BK, you are better served giving that $1132 to an attorney to come up with a definitive answer to your special garnishment questions, rather than just making needless payments out of fear or worry, when you intend to default on the debt anyway.

As far as phone calls, I only carry a cell and I have long since routed any bank phone numbers to voice mail, and my voice mail isn't even set up on my phone. Too bad, so sad. I live for myself, not their worries. My phone is for me, and not them.

[Cathy34]

KnitterGal ~ Thanks for the note. When do you plan on filing bk? I'm still up in the air as to when to stop paying cc payments since my bk filing is 14 months away. I just paid all my payments yesterday (leaving us with nothing in the bank at all). I'm now going to methodically go through and take my husbands name off as an added card. I'm the primary cardholder on almost all the cards. I've discovered he has two of them. His other 3 I'd paid off already. The minimum payments for those two cards are $47. The other $1000+ is all me, I think.

So how are the "freak outs" going today? Are you feeling at all better about your decision? I have moments when I think, "What am I doing? They are going to come and get me. I'm going to end up homeless. I'm screwing up my kids...." You get the picture. Today I looked outside and was watching my 7-year-old and her friend swinging on the vine/branches of the weeping willow tree, knowing that she wouldn't be doing that by next year, probably. I just hope we can find a place enough outside the city that the kids can still enjoy the outside like they do now. And I worry constantly about finding a place to live where we can have our animals - that is a huge issue! So my "freak outs" come and go. I know at this point I could still pay the late payment and catch up. Once I get beyond that point, I should calm down a little bit. LOL!

We are in a similar situation to yours, but in FL. We met with an attorney last week, and she advised us to go ahead and stop paying cc's and the mortgage. We are going to continue paying the cars as we intend to reaffirm them. So, today is our first time missing a payment on anything in years and I am seriously freaking out! Good luck to you and I will be following your story!

[Cathy34]

Today is August 3. I've missed two payments now. I got three phone calls today instead of the normal two. My husband got a phone call at work today from an 855 number. Obviously he didn't answer it and the caller ID gave no info on it. He also got an 888 call on his cell phone. That's a first. I offered to send in the C&D letter to stop that but he said to wait to see if it gets too much worse. This, we can handle. I've had one bill sent for $54.89 for my late fee for July. That's it so far.

I'm looking at some of the posts and seeing people getting through to their sale date within 5-7 months. Wow! If that happens to us, we'll be scrambling to get out of here. Guess we should start decluttering and downsizing frequently so we're ready when we need to be. There are lots of examples of BofA but not a lot from Maryland so I guess we'll just wait and see.

[SusieDerk]

Hi Cathy, don't know if you remember me but I am with BoA and in Delaware and our first missed payment was also 7/1. We have had a bunch of robo calls, too, but I don't mind. My two year olds always say, "uh oh, phone!" haha they must have got that from me! I am also worried about this moving quicker than I would like. When I looked in the "timeline" thread, they get quicker at the end- not good!! I am planning on trying to stall them, but I don't think stall tactics work like they used to, especially since mod apps get processed so much quicker than before! My first app took a year, my second app took a few weeks, tops! Also not good! I would stay until the last second but I have 3 tiny kids and this stalling business is not for the faint of heart!!!

[KnitterGal]

We are planning on filing in about six months. Our attorney said that we could possibly be in the house for a year or so. I do freak occasionally, all for the same reasons as you, our kids and pets, but I know logically that this is our best move at this point, it's just difficult not to be emotional about it. I am trying not too worry too much about the timeline. Our goal right now is to save enough money for the attorney, then to sock away enough for our "escape money." it has been a challenge trying to decide how much we should save because we can't have a bunch of money in the bank when we file, so hopefully, we will have a few months in the house after we file to save a bit more.

KnitterGal ~ Thanks for the note. When do you plan on filing bk? I'm still up in the air as to when to stop paying cc payments since my bk filing is 14 months away. I just paid all my payments yesterday (leaving us with nothing in the bank at all). I'm now going to methodically go through and take my husbands name off as an added card. I'm the primary cardholder on almost all the cards. I've discovered he has two of them. His other 3 I'd paid off already. The minimum payments for those two cards are $47. The other $1000+ is all me, I think.So how are the "freak outs" going today? Are you feeling at all better about your decision? I have moments when I think, "What am I doing? They are going to come and get me. I'm going to end up homeless. I'm screwing up my kids...." You get the picture. Today I looked outside and was watching my 7-year-old and her friend swinging on the vine/branches of the weeping willow tree, knowing that she wouldn't be doing that by next year, probably. I just hope we can find a place enough outside the city that the kids can still enjoy the outside like they do now. And I worry constantly about finding a place to live where we can have our animals - that is a huge issue! So my "freak outs" come and go. I know at this point I could still pay the late payment and catch up. Once I get beyond that point, I should calm down a little bit. LOL!

[Daysi2]

My eldest son "came home to mother" in NM after he was laid off 3yrs ago and for the past year has been working through an agency, fairly steadily. That may or may not continue. My house is his home base.

Two years ago I had a fractured ankle and couldn't walk for 6 mos. so my son took care of me and the house. Now he's working downstate and I am on my own at present.

My second son was killed in an accident a year ago and I went to his funeral overseas, having to borrow money to get there. I had sold my previous house at a loss and bought one in the City near to my orthopod whom I saw frequently for a year. I can walk but not far and getting groceries/keeping appointments is a problem as I sold my car to help pay for the remodel debt I had incurred, increased by the travel expenses.

Some more work needs to be done on my house and I have neither the heart nor the money to do it. I will have my credit card debt [incurred by funeral] paid down/off by Christmas. My house is probably underwater. If I listed it with a Realtor for the price of the mortgage [with BoA] plus commission I would not make enough if I only got an offer for less than that. I know the current price must be less than what I paid for it.

I have an annuity which will run out in 4 years, and then only SS which would not cover the mortgage. I can see myself living under a bridge with my small dogs. Or in my son's truck if he's not working. Cannot count on help from him as he has needed it from me.

I have been in touch with a Short-Sale specialist and he says:

"The way I present my short sale offers to the bank is that they accept the short sale offer as full satisfaction of the loan – meaning that they will not go after the seller for the deficiency. Now the bank may counter the offer and ask the seller to contribute but we have been very successful in not having the seller be liable for any deficiency."

Which isn't exactly what I read on this forum. Someone said if the short sale offer is less than 85% of what is owed, then they will want repayment. And only "very" successful, not "always successful".

Specialist said I would have to arrange my own Deed in Lieu. Strategic Default doesn't seem an option because of BoA aggressive pursuit.

I have been profoundly depressed over my son's death and really don't want the effort required to have the house for sale, but doubt I could tolerate the stress of Strategic Default;getting sued. Ican pay the mortgage for the next few years, so it would be "easier" to remain where I am, but still very difficult to survive without a car. Nieghbors all go to work. Am alone during the day. And night.

The bank will get the house back sooner or later, in one way or another. Maybe the Grim Reaper will solve the problems as I am in my 70's. I would like to get out from under and buy another house for half the value of my current mortgage, and pay it down hard so I would have something manageable to leave to my son.

[Cathy34]

Daysi,

It sounds like you've had a rough time of it. What state are you in?

My eldest son "came home to mother" in NM after he was laid off 3yrs ago and for the past year has been working through an agency, fairly steadily. That may or may not continue. My house is his home base.

Two years ago I had a fractured ankle and couldn't walk for 6 mos. so my son took care of me and the house. Now he's working downstate and I am on my own at present.

My second son was killed in an accident a year ago and I went to his funeral overseas, having to borrow money to get there. I had sold my previous house at a loss and bought one in the City near to my orthopod whom I saw frequently for a year. I can walk but not far and getting groceries/keeping appointments is a problem as I sold my car to help pay for the remodel debt I had incurred, increased by the travel expenses.

Some more work needs to be done on my house and I have neither the heart nor the money to do it. I will have my credit card debt [incurred by funeral] paid down/off by Christmas. My house is probably underwater. If I listed it with a Realtor for the price of the mortgage [with BoA] plus commission I would not make enough if I only got an offer for less than that. I know the current price must be less than what I paid for it.

I have an annuity which will run out in 4 years, and then only SS which would not cover the mortgage. I can see myself living under a bridge with my small dogs. Or in my son's truck if he's not working. Cannot count on help from him as he has needed it from me.

I have been in touch with a Short-Sale specialist and he says:

"The way I present my short sale offers to the bank is that they accept the short sale offer as full satisfaction of the loan – meaning that they will not go after the seller for the deficiency. Now the bank may counter the offer and ask the seller to contribute but we have been very successful in not having the seller be liable for any deficiency."

Which isn't exactly what I read on this forum. Someone said if the short sale offer is less than 85% of what is owed, then they will want repayment. And only "very" successful, not "always successful".

Specialist said I would have to arrange my own Deed in Lieu. Strategic Default doesn't seem an option because of BoA aggressive pursuit.

I have been profoundly depressed over my son's death and really don't want the effort required to have the house for sale, but doubt I could tolerate the stress of Strategic Default;getting sued. Ican pay the mortgage for the next few years, so it would be "easier" to remain where I am, but still very difficult to survive without a car. Nieghbors all go to work. Am alone during the day. And night.

The bank will get the house back sooner or later, in one way or another. Maybe the Grim Reaper will solve the problems as I am in my 70's. I would like to get out from under and buy another house for half the value of my current mortgage, and pay it down hard so I would have something manageable to leave to my son.

[Cathy34]

Susie,

I made out my timeline today based on Sailordude and December 15 could see us out on the road. Sailordude has been in his home for almost a year now, but he's not with BofA. I'm not trying to stall, at least I wasn't, because I definitely wanted this to happen before the Debt Relief Act expires at the end of next year. But I could stand a few more months. Definitely need to finish paying off the attorney and setting aside some $$ for the rental. Keep me posted on your progress!

Hi Cathy, don't know if you remember me but I am with BoA and in Delaware and our first missed payment was also 7/1. We have had a bunch of robo calls, too, but I don't mind. My two year olds always say, "uh oh, phone!" haha they must have got that from me! I am also worried about this moving quicker than I would like. When I looked in the "timeline" thread, they get quicker at the end- not good!! I am planning on trying to stall them, but I don't think stall tactics work like they used to, especially since mod apps get processed so much quicker than before! My first app took a year, my second app took a few weeks, tops! Also not good! I would stay until the last second but I have 3 tiny kids and this stalling business is not for the faint of heart!!!

[Cathy34]

We aren't socking away money in the bank for exactly the reason you stated below. Of course, the first 2 months are already spoken for, for the attorney. They we start trying to literally sock away money for our "escape" as you so succintly put it. It's going to be ok. It just has to be, right? :-) Three cats, 2 dogs, 2 kids...Can't imagine giving any of the animals away. My kids would be absolutely devastated. They sleep with them, play with them, do all the feeding and cleaning up. They are their babies. What a journey this is becoming!

We are planning on filing in about six months. Our attorney said that we could possibly be in the house for a year or so. I do freak occasionally, all for the same reasons as you, our kids and pets, but I know logically that this is our best move at this point, it's just difficult not to be emotional about it. I am trying not too worry too much about the timeline. Our goal right now is to save enough money for the attorney, then to sock away enough for our "escape money." it has been a challenge trying to decide how much we should save because we can't have a bunch of money in the bank when we file, so hopefully, we will have a few months in the house after we file to save a bit more.

[Daysi2]

Daysi,

It sounds like you've had a rough time of it. What state are you in?

I live in NM. A recourse state. Have read everything and have gotten myself confused as to what I should do. List it? And pay commission? Walk away and get sued? Short sale and find that BoA will not accept the offers I may get? Buy a place and move out? Buy a car before my credit tanks? Stay here and deposit the unpaid mortgage payments, increasing my "savings"? Attempt a short sale but have BoA refuse it because I can pay for the next 4 years? Stay here and default in 4 years time? There have been many days when I wouldn't have gotten out of bed if it hadn't been that I needed to care for my doglets. Nothing to do and all day to do it in.

[Cathy34]

Current Mortgage: 216,000
Monthly Payments (including tax and insurance): $1437
Current Property Value: $145,000 (in perfect condition - this one is in big trouble with septic & foundation)
First Missed Payment: July 1, 2011

On August 8 I got three letters in the mail from BofA. This is the first snail mail correspondence I've received. Also, the phone calls have taken a change: Instead of 2-3 calls per day, we got 1 call on Friday and then none from Loan Admin after that. On Tuesday we got a wireless caller with a 919 area code. That one called twice. Today there was one more call from a wireless caller. No messages at all. DH said he got an 888 number that called him at work once today but didn't leave a message either.

The first one is dated July 28 and is a statement (we don't get statements by snail mail) showing just the normal mortgage payment due. Then in small print it says we're past due. They were even kind enough to send a payment coupon with it. The second page, however, says, Important information about your loan: There has been a payment default or other default on your loan that could result in acceleration of all sums due....etc. Then it goes on to list all of the affiliates that will come after us and gives us a website to go to so we can see all the fees they will assess us.

The second letter is another statement but this one has both late payments due. It goes on to say we need to send the payment in with the attached coupon. However, if we need help, we need to call them. And they also give us information for housing counseling services.

The third letter is begging us to contact them immediately to discuss our mortgage and explore options that may be available to help us bring our loan to a current status. The bottom of it says, "Please be advised that Bank of America Home Loans is a debt collector, we are attempting to collect a debt, and any information Bank of America obtains will be used for that purpose."

So, what do you make of this? Anything I need to do? I'm not trying to prolong anything. I don't want to give them any financials. We will just let the chips fall where they may.

[sailordude]

It sounds like pretty standard stuff. What's kind of funny is of the three ways they can choose to contact you, they chose all three...

Gentle reminder
Offer to help
Threats

OK, the "threats" is pretty benign so far. It will get more serious later.

Can you think of any reason why you should contact the bank? I can't. I'd just file the letters and move on with your life. If you aren't trying to keep your house, or prolong the process, there really isn't anything to talk to them about.

[Cathy34]

Today is August 16. I'm actually expecting some more snail mail from BofA tomorrow or the next day according to my timeline. So far we've got gotten robo calls, no messages, and some bills that say we're late. Oh, and an offer of help.

Yesterday I went and bought my 13-year-old a cell phone - added it to our line. they did a quickie credit check. Made me so nervous. But it came back just fine. Whew! Hopefully in 6-7 years, when my next dd needs a cell phone, it won't be a problem. LOL!

However...today we did some serious decluttering and boy is it nice. The kids' playroom is back. They are SO happy. They sat in there and read books and played the Wii. We're taking the extra big tv up there tomorrow so dh can play too. LOL! Makes me sad. So tonight I asked dh if maybe we shouldn't go through with this. We're not so far behind, yet, that we couldn't probably make it up. They haven't done anything that would keep us from doing this. Is this the right thing? Sheesh. This is so hard! Dh is as wishy-washy as I am so we're really bad for each other. 25 years of marriage and we can finish each other's sentences and talk each other out of something that we just finished talking each other in to! HA!

If you have time, read my first post of this thread and then tell me what you think. Our payments are "only" $1437. Our rent would be about the same. But the other things - well, they are still there. But a lot of them I could live with if I had to. Ugh.

TIA,
Cathy

[incognito]

Hi Cathy,

I sympathize with your conflicting feelings. In looking through your previous posts, you have a lot of concerns about the condition of the property and your ability to make repairs over the long term. Ultimately, only you and your husband can decide what is right for your family.

For me, it came down to where we would be financially in 3-5 years if we go through with our walk versus staying in an underwater house. I love my house and I wish I could stay. However, I feel that we are just putting off the inevitable if we stay. That said, I've waffled a few time too. It would be easy to make my missed payments and avoid going through this right now, but ultimately the financial stress if we stay is going to be much greater than if we walk now.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do. Keep us posted.

[sailordude]

Things wrong with the house: Septic failing, plumbing failing, downstairs bathroom doesn't work, kitchen needs a complete overhauling (really bad), back steps crumbling, sidewalk crumbling, house sinking, walls cracking, doors sticking (because of house sinking), basement flooding...you get the picture, I'm sure.

Our attorney said that he didn't think that we would ever gain equity in this house in our lifetime. He also said that he felt doing a BK was the way to go since it will protect us from a deficiency judgment here in Maryland. He didn't make me feel guilty that this would be Bk #2 (for two very separate but valid reasons, he said). He also said that he felt that 20 years from now we would probably be in a very bad position should we still be living here, and then retirement would be very difficult for us because we would just be starting our "walk away". He also thought that purchasing a vehicle like we did last week was a very smart move.

However...today we did some serious decluttering and boy is it nice. The kids' playroom is back. They are SO happy. They sat in there and read books and played the Wii. We're taking the extra big tv up there tomorrow so dh can play too. LOL! Makes me sad. So tonight I asked dh if maybe we shouldn't go through with this. We're not so far behind, yet, that we couldn't probably make it up. They haven't done anything that would keep us from doing this. Is this the right thing? Sheesh. This is so hard! Dh is as wishy-washy as I am so we're really bad for each other. 25 years of marriage and we can finish each other's sentences and talk each other out of something that we just finished talking each other in to! HA!

It seems like you are emotionally attached to the house. Remember, it is just a house. A thing. A big expensive hunk of wood and plaster. Try to detach yourself emotionally from it, the nice playroom (your kids will quickly grow up), and the big screen TV. Look at your situation from the point of view of where you are (and where you'll end up if you stay), and where you want to be.

Your failing septic and plumbing will need to be dealt with at some point. As your kids grow you are really going to want to get the second bathroom working. Kitchens are very expensive (though, perhaps, this is optional). Sticking doors and cracking walls might not be too big a deal (a plane, sandpaper, spackle and paint might be enough to keep up on these). I might worry about the crumbling steps.

Repairs aside, the most important thing to consider is if you decide to pay now, are you only delaying the inevitable? If in five years the house becomes uninhabitable because of deferred maintenance, will you be forced to vacate (and given the likelihood that equity will not have returned, default at that time)? In ten years when the kids fly the coop, will you still want to keep the house with all its' issues? If you are forced to walk in twenty years, will a bankruptcy or default destroy your retirement? Remember, that you are unlikely to be able to sell the house if you change your mind in the foreseeable future. These questions haven't gone away.

No one knows your situation like you do. No one but you knows what you are willing to live with. No one but you can make the choice. Perhaps it's a philosophical thing. One of the (numerous) reasons that I am going through with my walk is because I look at it as inevitable, and I prefer to deal with the default on my terms, and not have it hanging over my head. Your situation may be different.

If I may make a suggestion... Spend an evening writing down all the reasons you want to stay and all the reasons you want to leave. Post it on the refrigerator or something. Over the next week or two think about each of these items in the context of five or ten years from now. Weigh the pros and cons of staying versus walking as unemotionally as you can. Make a pact with each other to commit to your decision, that once the choice is made, the choice is made. Then put it behind you and move on with your life. Life is too short to let this keep eating at you.

[Daysi2]

Cathy, I am about to default this month and I am having conflicting feelings too, as the effort required will be horrendous, not only dealing with BoA but the move itself. But I have to think about 4 years down the road when my income will drop precipitously. There was a burglary three doors away on Monday, so that helps to decide.

However, I have started packing and yesterday I took down things from off the frig and some things off the wall. The house is becoming anonymous and it is making me feel better. Have you depersonalised your house? I can't take down my son's photo but I packed away the flag from his casket.

And tomorrow I am renting a car to go look at a place about 75 miles from here. I hope both the house and the "village" will prove to be what I am looking for and I can get started on that process with my son's help.

It would be better for your children's health to be elsewhere, wouldn't it? You will reach the right decision, but try not to overthink it.

[KnitterGal]

I know how you feel, I am right here with you! We just missed our first payment this month, so are just now late. We are also in a recourse state and are planning on filing ch. 7, so we are missing cc payments now, too. I have run the gamut this month with all of my questions, doubt, etc., but at the end of the day, when I remove my fear and emotion, for us, this is hands down the right choice. We could even wait a couple of years before we HAD to do this, but for me, I need to get out from under this dark cloud and move on. We have young kids and decided to go ahead and do this now, so that when they are older, we would have more stability and still have plenty of time to prepare for our retirement. I hope that you can achieve some peace in your decision.

[Cathy34]

After reading the great advice on this thread and then re-reading it to my husband, we took a break, sat down and just hashed it all out. We analyzed whether or not we were doing this simply because we didn't like living here. We picked apart every excuse we've used. We went through all of the repairs that HAD to be done and took out of the equation the repairs that NEED to be done but we can still live without them being done (i.e. the downstairs bathroom HAS to be fixed but the kitchen, though very very crappy, does NOT HAVE to be remodeled in the slightest. Yes, the linoleum is breaking, the cabinets are handmade (before our time), etc. but we could live with it.). We even put into the equation the possibility of an easy fix on the septic system. We left no stone unturned. We looked at the effect it will have on our children to leave the only house they've ever known. They don't want to move. We talked about the situation with my dad who lives next door and wants us to move in with him (we don't want to live here!) and how it would be for him if we left (very bad). And if he walked from his home, I don't know that he would qualify for BK because he doesn't have a ton of debt besides the house, but he might. His credit is in the 800s but he'd be willing to leave it, I think.

So anyways, we really just tore ourselves apart. We tore every little bit of excuse we had upside down and really examined our reasonings, our motives, and the possible outcomes all the way around. We used the great advice on this thread over and over again. And in the end, we are staying the course. It is what it is. And what it is, is the right thing for our family to do. We don't have years and years until retirement but we do have probably 20 years - time enough for us to get our act together a little bit (if the economy doesn't completely and utterly tank).

So thank you very much, each of you who responded to my pity party. It was fun!

BTW, I did receive a letter from BofA today. It basically says "We want to help you save your house." Then they enclosed a HUD information sheet about foreclosures and what to do. At the very end it says, "If you do nothing, YOU WILL LOSE YOUR HOME and your good credit rating...Still waiting for a NOI (or is it NOD first?)

[sailordude]

I'm not sure I ever received what would be termed a Notice of Default, at least it wasn't marked as such. I did receive a notice of intent to accelerate, and notice of intent to foreclose. But, then, I seem to have fallen into a foreclosure black hole where nothing much is happening.

[DesertMe]

I can really sympathize. I walked from my former house after 20+ years in it, because due to personal and financial issues at the time, it was the "right" thing to do. Hard emotionally ? Extremely..It still tears me apart and I still won't drive down my old street. But in the end, you are correct, you put on those proverbial "big boy pants" and you do whats best for you and yours. Just try to keep looking at it like the bean counters of today (you know all those wonderful MBA's that are in part responsible for this economic mess we are in) with that type of cold hard logic. It's difficult when it's your home to take the emotion out of it, but you can do it. As many have said here, it's just a bunch of wood, plaster, drywall and tile..

[Cathy34]

Today is August 22. I haven't had a phone call in about a week. My husband had gotten about 800 number calls on his cell but that stopped, too. I've never answered one single call. In fact, for about 2 weeks, I disconnected the answering machine. Once I connected it back up, I got a couple more phone calls but then nothing. There was one robo message in the first couple of weeks but other than that, there has never been a message. I've received a late bill twice and have also been sent "helpful" material to save our credit and home but that's it. I'm totally expecting the NOI any time now, as August 17 was the day they could file it. I've also never checked my BofA account online as I figure those are probably monitored, too, and if I log on, that might start the phone calls back up.

I wonder if there is a way for me to check for NOI or NOD in Maryland. Does anyone know?

So far I haven't saved any money. I've missed two payments and will shortly miss my third payment. We were behind in so much and have now almost gotten caught up. Hopefully most of this next house payment will go under the mattress.

As of next month, we will be without house insurance unless we pour some money into this place. :-(

Still walking with our heads held high!

[Cathy34]

I have an update today. And I want opinions on whether to call them and tell them I don't want a visit or to just not respond at all. I have had absolutely no contact with them since this started.

Update:

Today I got a packet in the mail from BofA. It is dated 8/18/2011. It is not a NOI, which I expected. Instead, it is a packet that says, "We will be sending a representative to meet with you at your home to collect documents that will help us conduct a review of your loan to determine if there are home retention options or foreclosure alternatives available for you. The representative will be from NCCI. When our representative visits you at your home, you can expect the following:

You will be show the representative's identification and, to protect your privacy, our representative will verify your identity by asking to see photo identification such as a driver's license.

You will be provided a copy of this letter without the enclosures.

Our representative will gather the required financial information, as described in the attached checklist.

Please have copies of the required financial information ready for our representative to take with him/her. It is important that you have all the documentation ready when the representative comes to your home.

If you have recently sent information to us, our representative will confirm that we have received it and if it is complete.

Once we have all of your necessary financial documentation, we can evaluate your options and we will contact you to explain those options.

To schedule the visit on a day and at a time that is most convenient for you, please call855-395-6031, Monday - Friday 10am - 10pm EST. If you do not want our representative to visit your home, please let us know by calling that same number. If we do not hear from you, our representative will attempt to visit your home over the next 7-10 days.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Home Loan Team
Bank of America N.A.

This letter came with a slew of forms they want me to fill out.

[incognito]

Omg! That's very bold of them. I would be inclined to ignore this. It sounds like at some point, someone may or may not show up while anyone is home and you could just say "no thanks." But, if you feel like it, then I guess it couldn't hurt to call and tell them that the house is still occupied and that you are unable to make your payment and not interested in applying for a modification. Whatever you're most comfortable with.

That said, I don't care who shows up at my house--there is no way I'm giving my ID or handing out financial info to some yahoo that shows up on my doorstep lol...I can't believe that they are that pushy!

[Cathy34]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty bold. On one hand, it irritates me so much that I don't want to call them and tell them "no thank you" because they can just use their manpower and $$ if they want to. On the other hand, I hate it when people come to my door, plus what if my girls are outside and they something to them. I'd be really, really mad, then. (Girls are 7 and 13). Hmmm....

Omg! That's very bold of them. I would be inclined to ignore this. It sounds like at some point, someone may or may not show up while anyone is home and you could just say "no thanks." But, if you feel like it, then I guess it couldn't hurt to call and tell them that the house is still occupied and that you are unable to make your payment and not interested in applying for a modification. Whatever you're most comfortable with.

That said, I don't care who shows up at my house--there is no way I'm giving my ID or handing out financial info to some yahoo that shows up on my doorstep lol...I can't believe that they are that pushy!

[exodus]

Wow! That is c-r-a-z-y!!!

I wouldn't call back or let anyone in.

Check out these links:

Interesting blog post... looks like the same letter you received

Here is a fellow loansafer's NCCI experience

Read michelle's 800notes.com post from August 23

NCCI ripoff report

[KentWalk]

Wow, that is crazy. I bet people that are not educated and don't have the wealth of knowledge that these forums share would oblige and provide this financial info to BoA. I probably would have, had I not learned that I am *not* required to provide ANY financial information to my lender. I think if I were you, I would send a C&D letter... I'm getting ready to begin my walk on 9/1 !

[foofoo]

Crazy. My wife and I are in a similar position here in MD (I will be starting a thread soon). Where we have 2 mortgages. The first being with BoA and the second with Greentree (ugh.. what a horrible company).

We are going to see a BK lawyer on Monday but speaking with some of them they seem to be pushy and I get the sense they just want you to file for bankruptcy so they can collect their payment and move on. We have two homes (both of us had home before we got married, so neither of us are on one another's mortgages which is nice). She only has 13k in credit card debt and then student loans.

Basically we're just looking to walk away from the house she has as I am the only one working and can't afford to pay for both. We currently have a renter in her home but we have a shortfall every month of about $500-600 and if we tried to sell the house we would probably be looking at 20k out of pocket which we simply don't have.

My question is this - and sorry to come into your thread. I'll be creating my own shortly but wanted to give my support as well here.

Basically - so say we collect the rent while the FC process runs it's course. We would pay down the CC debt - the house would sell in FC and satisfy the first mortgage and probably about 1/2 of the second mortgage leaving between 20-30k on the second. I know maryland is a resource state so Greentree could come after us for a judgement, however my question is related to how the judgement process works. Is it only greentree that can come after us and they only have a certain amount of time? They either write it off and don't come after us, or do?

They cannot sell the debt to a debt collector or something like that can they? If so, isn't the likelyhood of someone coming after us in court that much higher?

Thanks and good luck. Our first month late payment will be next month.