Hi All,
We just got a Cash 4 Keys offer for a measley $500 if we move out in five days.
This really is not worth the hassle.
Anyone know if this is just a 'first offer' and likely to increase, or do you think this really is all they are offering?
Frankly I'd rather stay in the house 'rent free' for another month, than try to rush out of here (plus leave our appliances) for a mere $500.
I asked if the offer was negotiable, and was told "no".
Any thoughts/experience with c4K?
No direct experience, but have read on this forum a range of $1500 - $2500.
You are right, for a mere $500 I would stay the exrta month and not worry about cleaning up.
WFB 1st; PNC 2nd / 20 mths. behind on 2nd. Investor: UBS in an MBS pool.
Mod req. 9/09. 4 mth. S.F.A. granted 01/10 by OOP - paid on time.
BK7 discharged 7/17. R'cvd an inhouse mod 10/10 @ 3.25% for 34 yrs !!!
That is what they offered a friend of mine. She had renters and they get extra time and if they have a lease they usually give them more they offered renters in her house that were renting 1 room $4000.00
Well, since you're still in the house, they have to get an eviction order from a judge, and then the sheriff has to come and kick you out. So, if I was you, I'd tell them they'll have to evict me unless they up their offer. And if they try to change the locks, have the police charge them with breaking and entering. That might change their tune. They're banking on you not having information and just taking whatever they offer.
Everything is negotiable. I got $5,000.
Was this their initial offer? Or did you negotiate this?Originally Posted by knownick
I got the line that Fannie Mae only authorized them (the representative realtor) to offer us $500, and that this value would only go down, not up.
Knownick - Would you say the $5k was approx 1% of the 1st loan balance? How long ago did you get C4K?
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
More like 2%. This was back in Sept. 2009.
It was a Freddie Mac loan, that was their initial offer. $5k/30 days or $3.5k/60 days. I'm sure lots has changed since then and it's highly dependent on your area and how bad the new owners want you out.
Several people on here have successfully negotiated though. They may just say no, and you might have to be willing to play hardball to get them to up the offer... but I guess it doesn't hurt to try.
I'd say you did quite well for yourself. And yes, things have changed. Most banks now require the homeowner sign documents giving up all rights to participate in any future law suit. No signature on those docs = no C4K's.
Also, as I see it, the moment you surrender to C4K's, you have voluntarily agreed to leave the property of your own free will. As much as I would love to have the money, I don't think I will take it, if offered. I want to leave my options open. I also want it legally documented till the end that the bank illegally forced me out. One of us will remain behind until the sheriff ******s us out. I won't subject my child to that though. When we suspect the very end is truly near, we will move 98% of our contents to a new home along with 1 parent.
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
I can't remember the exact contract I had to sign but I wouldn't be surprised if similar language was in it. There was also the matter of providing my SSN so they could report the income - I got a separate 1099 from the law office that handled the foreclosure for the c4k deal.
$5k was definitely a "good deal" - I was quite happy with it. I'm with you though, for a measly 500 bucks I probably wouldn't sign any rights away.
One thing I did that I think may have helped was I never contacted anyone. Never called after the sale to see what happened, never asked a soul about "cash for keys". I just sat tight until they came knocking. It took almost a month - I had given up hope on getting anything and was expecting an eviction notice - not a c4k offer.
That was a really smart move. I plan on doing the same. So here you are 2 years later. You are one of the rare gems that continues to remain connected with Loan Safe. Thank you for that.One thing I did that I think may have helped was I never contacted anyone. Never called after the sale to see what happened, never asked a soul about "cash for keys". I just sat tight until they came knocking. It took almost a month
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
If you do not take the offer they will serve you a notice to quit and then if you do not they will file an unlawful detainer and they will take you to court and get triple monthly damages. I have been served with one and I have filed a Motion to Dismiss for failure to state a claim for relief to be granted, next I will file a contempt of judicial law objection against them.
Hi Jeffrey - I have a plan on paper of what to expect here in California.
1. House sells on ? (reverts back to lender)
2. R.E. agent appears within a few days after sale - asks us to leave / offers cash for keys
3. Say ok to 30 days to vacate - Verbally agree but don’t sign anything
4. After 30 days goes by, agent sees I’m still in the house
5. 3 day notice to vacate is taped to my door (but you don’t move)
6. Sheriff stops by & serves an unlawful detainer
7. I have 5 days to answer the complaint (I must file an answer to the complaint with the court)
8. Hearing date is set & I enter a demur pleading.
Somewhere between step 6 & 8, contents will be moved to a place we will need to rent. 1 adult will remain behind & maintain a presence at the home for appearance sake & to greet the sheriff as we get e s c o r t e d out of the property. I want it on record, along with a paper trail that we were forced out!
Did I understand correctly, my loan servicer will come after me for triple monthly damages? If so, that would be the time I could file a counter suit against BofA for being in contempt of court for not adhering to the countrywide stipulated judgement. They are under court order to do so, but nobody is enforcing it!
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
Just found out today someone I know has court tomorrow in Los Angeles for eviction is it too late to enter a demur? Her husband left her and failed to tell her he stopped making payments when she found out she was 3 months behind. She works long 12hr shifts as a pediatric nurse in the hospital I believe. She qualifies for a mod but Wells Fargo just lies and has been stringing her along.
Any suggestions anyone I know its short notice.
~Estela
Estela - Do you know if she has already been served with the unlawful detainer? It sounds like it. I would suggest she arrive at the courthouse as soon as it opens in the morning & meet with a public defender, explain her circumstances & see if anything can be done. In the meantime, I've got about 15 mins or so to search for a template for a Demur pleading. I encourage others reading this thread to do the same & see if we can help this person out. Sounds like tomorrow is her hearing so I believe the pleading must be entered into the court record effective tomorrow.
Estela, do you know what time the hearing is scheduled for?
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
She was served I don't know the exact time all I know it's in the morning.
§6.01 Demurrer
- Conforms with CCP §1005—served and filed at least 16 court days before the hearing date, with 5 calendar days added if the places of mailing and destination address are both in California; and
- Is not more than 35 days after filing or on the first available date thereafter.
However, for good cause you may order the hearing held on an earlier (or later) date and may prescribe appropriate notice. [See CRC 3.1320(d).]After you rule on the demurrer, the parties have only 5 calendar days, rather than the usual 10 days, to answer or amend. [See CCP §1167.3; CRC 3.1320(g).] The time within which an answer must be filed runs from the date on which notice of the court’s decision on the demurrer is served, unless the defendant waives notice in open court and the waiver is entered in the minutes. [SeeCCP §§472b, 1019.5.] If the defendant fails to answer, you may enter a default. [See CCP §586(a)(2).]
So again, suggest she meet with the public defender first thing in the morning & see if anything can be done.
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
thanks will do
~Estela
Pursuant to your court rules you can only answer one way. You may answer with a cross complaint. You are entitled under the law to answer any way with a cross claim or a motion or just a plain answer. Most unlawful detainers must be answered in three business days. Defenses for complaints are listed under rule 12. Rule 7 is the guide for answering. Read them and GET EM!
Estella13 - What happened with your friend the nurse that had to appear in court last week?
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
Thanks Jeffrey. In Ca. we have 5 days to answer the complaint. I will read up on complaint defenses in Ca.
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
knownick --- Can you please give any advise to rebuilding your credit score after a foreclosuure? I think I am doing all of the right things by paying my other credit cards on time however any advise would be appreciated. Thanks
FICO score based on Creditkarma.com
NOV 2010 = 720
DEC 2010 = 712
JAN 2011 = FIRST MISSED PAYMENT
FEB 2011 = 691
FEB 8, 2011 = 717
MAR 7, 2011 = 680
APR 10, 2011 = 672
APR 19, 2011 = 659
MAY 4, 2011 = 659
JUN 15, 2011 = 659
JUL 8, 2011 = 656 (JUL 11 639 per Equifax)
SEP 16, 2011 = 635
JAN 2, 2011 = 657
JAN 27, 2011 = 669
JUL 14, 2012 = 678
I'm doing the best that I can in that area myself, but it's a bit of a learning process and it's certainly taken some time.
The obvious stuff is to get your free annual credit report every year and check it for accuracy. I and several others have had to dispute post-foreclosure credit recordings with the banks to make sure they were reported accurately. In my case even though both loans eventually showed "foreclosure" with correct dates, etc - the second loan kept reporting a "balance due" for many months after the actual foreclosure. I had to dispute this with all three agencies to eventually get it corrected and changed to zero.
I continue to use the one credit card that didn't cancel on me during the process and recently acquired another one - a gas card with a $700 limit. We live in a rural area now with only one close-by station, and they discount the gas 10 cents a gallon if you use the brand card... so it made sense. We put all the fuel purchases on it and pay it off every month. Not much, but I guess it probably helps somehow.
The only thing I've seen that has had a steady and marked effect on my score is the passage of time. Sign up for a creditkarma.com account (free) and check your score once a month - it will give you an idea of how things are going for you (and in my experience closely matches your actual FICO score). Almost two years out now, my score has risen from a low of ~590 to 676 at the beginning of this month. I haven't done anything above and beyond what I just said above - make sure everything is accurate, continue to be current and pay on-time, and slowly start applying for new credit.
Hope this helps.
My Received Cash for Keys "offer" Hello All, I am posting here in entirety the first offer I received on July 18th. The $1000 is approx. 1% of the amount owed. Foreclosure date was July 1st, reverted to lender. We have a lot of heavy outside machinery to move and need time. I've spoken to the RA, and I've contacted an attorney for advice through NWJustice project, we'll see. Also posting on my original thread, Help in WA Upcoming Trustee's Sale date
Would appreciate advice and this could possibly help someone else going through this. Thanks!
Cash for Keys and Release Agreements
PHH LOAN NUMBER: XXXXX
THIS CASH FOR KEYS/OCCUPANCY TERMINATION AND RELEASE AGREEMENT ("Agreement") entered into as of the date of the latest signature below is between PHH Mortgage Corporation, ("PHH") And all adult occupants ("Occupant") of the premises located at XXXXX ("Property").
PHH is a servicer with respect to the Property on behalf of the Owner of Record ("Property Owner"). In exchange for your agreement to vacate the Property upon the terms and conditions set forth in this Agreement on or before 08/18/11 ("Vacancy Date") PHH is authorized to offer the payment ("Payment") set forth in Section 1 below.
For good and valuable consideration, the receipt of which is hereby acknowledged. PHH and Occupant agree as follows:
1. Payment
Occupant agrees to vacate the Property on or before the Vacancy Date shown above, and to comply with all the terms of this Agreement. If Occupant fulfills all the terms of this Agreement, PHH will pay Occupant sum of ($1000) Dollars as provided under Section 3.
2. Access To The Property
Upon Occupant's execution of this Agreement and at all times thereafter, Occupant agrees to allow PHH and/or its designated agent access to the Property with reasonable notice and at reasonable hours, for the purpose of determining a market value on the Property, to identify the necessity for repairs to the Property, or to show the Property to prospective tenants and/or purchasers. Occupant further agrees to allow PHH and/or its designated agent to place For Sale/For Rent signs at the Property.
3. Vacating Property
Within 5 business days after Occupant notifies PHH that Occupant has moved and PHH has received all keys and garage door remotes to the Property, PHH will have a final inspection made of the Property.
Occupant will receive the full amount of the Payment if and only if the final inspection shows that the Property "Passes Final Inspection" which means:
A. The Property, including all fixtures and appliances, is broom clean, free of any and all interior and exterior
debris, free from damage and destruction and otherwise in a condition acceptable to PHH, ordinary wear and
tear excepted; and
B. All furnishings and personal belongings excluding anything which is a part of or fixture of the premises have
been removed.
If the Property Passes Final Inspection and Occupant is then present, PHH or its designated Real Estate Agent will tender the full amount of the Payment at that time; if Occupant is not present, then the Payment will be mailed to Occupant within 15 business days after final inspection.
If PHH determines that the Property is not in the condition described above (because, for example, Occupant has caused damage to the Property, either intentionally or through negligence), PHH will deduct from the Payment the cost of repairs needed to put the Property into the condition intended by this Agreement, and when such repairs are completed the difference will be paid to Occupant. However, if such cost exceeds the amount of the Payment, Occupant will not be eligible to receive the Payment.
If at the time Occupant returns a signed copy of this Agreement in accordance with Section 4, PHH has commenced an eviction proceeding or taken other legal action against Occupant as it is entitled to by law, PHH reserves its rights to continue those proceedings until Occupant actually vacates the Property in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.
If Occupant does not sign and return this Agreement in accordance with Section 4 and vacate the Property on or before Vacancy Date shown above, Occupant will not be entitled to receive the Payment, and PHH will have the right to begin or continue eviction proceedings against Occupant, as the case may be, and to take any other action it is entitled to by law.
4. Delivery of Signed Agreement to PHH
Occupant must sign this Agreement and deliver it to PHH's Real Estate Agent, or to such other person as PHH may specify in writing, no later than 5:00 P.M. (E.T.) on 07/28/11. If Occupant does not sign and deliver the Agreement to PHH as required within this timeframe, then this agreement shall be null and void at PHH's option.
5. Release
Occupant does hereby release and forever discharge PHH and the Property Owner, and their respective officers, directors, shareholders, partners, attorneys, predecessors, successors, representatives, insurers, assignees, agents, employees and all persons acting by, through or in any way on behalf of PHH and/or the Property Owner (collectively the "PHH Releasees"), of and from any and all claims, debts, defenses, liabilities, costs, attorneys fees, actions, suits at law or equity, demands, contracts, expenses, damages, whether general, specific or punitive, exemplary, contractual or extra-contractual, and causes of action of any kind or nature that Occupant may now have or claim to have against the PHH Releasees, including without limitation all claims or causes of action which in any way, directly or indirectly, or in any other way arise from or are connected with or which could have been asserted in connection with the Property or Occupant's occupancy or use thereof; and Occupant further covenants and agrees that this Agreement may be pleaded or asserted by or on behalf of the PHH Releasees as a defense and complete bar to any action or claim that may be brought against or involving the PHH Releasees by anyone acting or purporting to act on behalf of Occupant with respect to any of the matters within the scope of this Agreement excepting only the obligations of the Parties under this Agreement. This full and final release shall cover and shall include and does cover and does include any and all known or future damages not now known to any of the Parties hereto, but which may later develop or be discovered, including the effects and consequences thereof, and including all causes of action therefore which arise out of any of the matters within the scope of this Agreement excepting only the obligations of the Parties under this Agreement.
6. No Bankruptcy
By executing this Agreement, Occupant represents that Occupant is not a debtor in any voluntary or involuntary bankruptcy proceedings pending at this time.
7. Effective Date and Entire AgreementThis Agreement shall be effective when an original of this Agreement fully executed by Occupant is received and executed by an authorized representative of PHH. This Agreement sets forth the entire agreement and understanding between the parties as to the subject matter hereof and merges and supersedes all prior discussions and agreements with respect thereto. Any changes to this Agreement must be in writing and signed by PHH and Occupant.
8. Waiver of California Civil Code Section 1542
If any Occupant was, is now or at some relevant time in the future a resident of the State of California or this Agreement is enforced in California, then the provisions of this Section 8 apply to the parties and this Agreement. Each party knowingly and intentionally waives any protection afforded to them by California Civil Code section 1542, which provides:
A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his or her favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him or her must have materially affected his or her settlement with the debtor.
Each party agrees that this Agreement is intended to cover all claims or possible claims arising out of or related to those matters referenced or implied covered in the general release reference above, whether the same are known, unknown or hereafter discovered or ascertained and the provisions of Section 1542 of the California Civil Code are hereby expressly waived. The parties expressly acknowledge that they have been advised by their counsel or have chosen to execute this Agreement after having been given the opportunity to consult counsel of their choice for advice concerning the contents and effect of Section 1542 of the California Civil code and hereby waive whatever benefits they may have pursuant to such provisions.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have executed this Agreement as of the date shown below.
dannanFW
Thanks for posting the C4K offer. If I were you, I would not even consider signing such an onerous and one-sided agreement
Instead, if I were you, I'd send them a written counteroffer with the key points of your counter. Bare in mind that a C4K settlement is a negotiated settlement. If PHH isn't amenable to your counteroffer, simply go silent and continue to occupy.
That will force PHH to either reconsider, or to initiate formal unlawful detainer proceedings. Any filing of a complaint in such a proceeding should be answered by you. By so doing, the unlawful detainer can be dragged out possibly for a couple months. Once PHH realizes how much $$ they'll spend on attorney fees and legal costs, they will almost certainly sweeten their C4K offer.
Good luck!
TomEason, in principal, I totally agree with you. When I read the "offer", several utterances of disdain exited my lips, to which I hope the Good Lord forgives me. The NWJustice attorney I spoke to "asked around" and said to go ahead and sign it, because repairs would most likely dwindle the offer money down to zero or beyond zero and at least we'd have a month. We need more time than a month. She said that I could counter for more time, but didn't give me any hints as to how to do that. I don't like the idea of signing such a no win agreement, especially since I've run across a myriad of posts on other blogs about what scum PHH is and the interest in a class action suit. If I signed their agreement, there would be no recourse or protection for me. I don't think they care how much money it takes for a legal action to get us out, or what methods they use for intimidation. So far, I've had a very rude and trying to be intimidating landscaper show up, and another guy at 8:30 AM playing a town crier, yelling Hello, Hello, Hello, I have a delivery for (insert my name here), Hello, then goes out to honk his car horn several times. I didn't answer the door, number one because I had no idea who he was or who sent him, and number two, I've been feeling unwell, thinking about going to the hospital and was in my pj's. I intend to counter offer as you suggest, but don't know exactly what to say or how to say it. What kind of legal format do I use? Is there a template that I can change to suit? I'm very surprised that no one else has responded.
dannanfw
Thanks for your update. As you now realize, when you use the services of a legal aid lawyer, you often get sub-par advice, and that appears to be case here
As far as the "intruders" are concerned, you did right by not answering the door. You might consider putting up No Trespassing sign(s) to intimidate them back.
As far as your counter, you needn't get fancy. Simply write a short letter stating in plain English what you want, both in terms of $$ and date to move. And, you might state that you won't sign an agreement with all the one-sided boilerplate. Oh, and one other important condition. When you vacate, you must insist in meeting the payer in person, and at the same time you surrender possession, you receive either cash or cashier's check for the agreed upon amount.
Don't be fooled that PHH isn't concerned about the expense of having you evicted. Every owner takes those expenses into consideration, not to mention the uncertainty of the length of time for PHH to finally gain legal possession, which could be months.
Good luck!
Thanks again, TomEason,
I have been thinking about how to word a response, looking up negotiation on web, came across one that said to "gestate" for a little while and the words will come to you. I played with the release at one point, was thinking about adding it in, though I'm thinking they might just cancel all negotiations immediately if I did. Here's how it came out:
5. Release
PHH and the Property Owner does hereby release and forever discharge the occupant(s) and all heirs and assigns, now and future, and his/her/their respective officers, directors, shareholders, partners, attorneys, predecessors, successors, representatives, insurers, assignees, agents, employees and all persons acting by, through or in any way on behalf of Occupants and all heirs and assigns, now and future, of and from any and all claims, debts, defenses, liabilities, costs, attorneys fees, actions, suits at law or equity, demands, contracts, expenses, damages, whether general, specific or punitive, exemplary, contractual or extra-contractual, and causes of action of any kind or nature that PHH and the Property Owner may now have or claim to have against the Occupants, including without limitation all claims or causes of action which in any way, directly or indirectly, or in any other way arise from or are connected with or which could have been asserted in connection with the Property or Occupant’s occupancy or use thereof; and PHH further covenants and agrees that this Agreement may be pleaded or asserted by or on behalf of the Occupants as a defense and complete bar to any action or claim that may be brought against or involving the Occupants by anyone acting or purporting to act on behalf of PHH with respect to any of the matters within the scope of this Agreement excepting only the obligations of the Parties under this Agreement. This full and final release shall cover and shall include and does cover and does include any and all known or future damages not now known to any of the Parties hereto, but which may later develop or be discovered, including the effects and consequences thereof, and including all causes of action therefore which arise out of any of the matters within the scope of this Agreement excepting only the obligations of the Parties under this Agreement.
On the no trespassing signs, I did put up 3, including a wood barrier on one drive; both those people went right past them.
Am I correct in that eviction proceedings will not stop unless/until the occupant is out of the home, even if a cash for keys agreement is signed?
dannanfw
Thanks for your question. Here's the way a settlement usually goes down. PHH starts eviction and serve a complaint. You answer the complaint and then, possibly use some legal ploys and tricks to delay the proceedings even more. What are some of these? In my state, motions can be made for the following: motion to strike, demurrer, motion to quash service of summons, etc. Nonetheless, once the complaint is answered, one of the parties will file a trial setting motion or memorandum with the court.
Anyway, let's assume that now PHH approaches you again with the desire to discuss settlement. If you reach an agreement, a stipulated judgment is most often used. That stipulated judgment in favor of the plaintiff PHH, will state the conditions of the settlement, and will only be entered if you fail to perform as agreed. However, if you do perform, the case is dismissed, and there is no judgment.
Cash For Keys is certainly a nice "bonus" on the way out the door following foreclosure, but is it really worth the risk of having an eviction on record (or at a minimum, the report of filing of the motion to evict, which will be part of the public record), given that one will need to rent in the future? Seems the more prudent tack would be to negotiate the best offer one is able to get and take that, rather than pushing things toward the filing of an eviction in order to try and get another thousand bucks (which will be eaten up by one's own attorney fees anyway).
I have stuff outside to move which has taken and will take more than they're giving me under their 'offer'. I've been getting stuff out since I figured out that the mtg. co. wasn't about to do a mod in any way, shape, or form.
The way I'm understanding this whole thing is that if you're not out on the day State foreclosure law says to be (I'm in Washington State where they give one a minimum of 20 days after the sale), then eviction proceedings are automatically begun, and don't stop even if an agreement is signed.....true or false?
Denada
Thanks for your post. We disagree. You make some very poor assumptions. One is that the occupant would use an attorney. All this eviction defense stuff can easily be handled by a defendant in pro per. And secondly, why would an occupant agree to a lousy thousand bucks more? We're talking a lot more $$ plus a lot more time in which to vacate.
A defendant with your mentality would play right into the plaintiff's hands, e.g. you'd be intimidated by the proceedings and cave, which is exactly the result the plaintiff desires.
BTW, in my county, eviction proceedings are confidential proceedings. Unless there is ultimately a judgment entered, nothing else will ever show up on a public record.
dannanfw
I had already provided an answer to your last question. Please see post #30.
TomEason, my apologies, I'm just a bit stressed right now ('ya think?), I did see that you answered, in a nutshell,if I'm seeing that correctly, that no, proceedings do not stop. Hopefully, this won't get to the having to show up in court stage.
dannanfw
Thanks for your post, and you have every right to be stressed!
When settlement is reached, the stipulated judgement is filed with the court. Any pending procedures, like the scheduled trial will be stayed. Unless the occupant does not perform per the agreement, the case is effectively over. When the occupant vacates and receives the cash incentive payment, the case is dismissed, as provided for in the stipulated judgment.
In my state, we even have a judicial council standard stipulated judgment form that can be used.
TomEason, I think I might be ready with a rough draft for my counter offer. Is there a way you can take a look and give me an opinion off of the public forum? I have to respond by July 28th.
It doesn't look like TomEason is logged in at the moment so thought I'd throw in my 2 cents! I've posted many letters on the forum but felt it was very important to protect my identity. So, what I did was made an extra copy & got rid of all the personal identifiers & dates. Then I uploaded it to my post. You need to "go advanced" instead of using the quick reply & attach using the paperclip icon. Might be an option for you!
Oh, looks like TomEason is here but invisible. lol
AS THE HAMPSTER WHEEL TURNS!
Hi dannanfw
Thanks for that post. Unfortunately, there isn't a way for me to review your doc outside the forum, as I really cannot handle fellow forum members sending me stuff. It's unfortunate that Loansafe's private messaging application has been disabled for some time. We used to be able to use it in situations like this.
Please bear in mind, that I'm not a lawyer, and that I don't make $$ for rendering advice here. However, if you are willing to post your draft here, I'll take a look at it and give you my opinion, FWIW LOL.
Thanks Freedomwon, I'm on it :-)
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