Underwater in Minnesota (MN) - My walk away process as it begins Jan 1 2011

[blssed2bme]

After reading so many posts on this site and others, I have officially decided to walk away from my home of 11 years. Why? In a recent refinance attempt with WF, I found that I am $50K underwater (difference between my loan and the value of my house).

Recent articles suggest that the housing market in MN will not return a value for 5 to 15 years. I'm not willing to throw my hard earned money into the black hole to wait for that time.

Current loan is $133K and the Nov 2010 apprasial came in at $88K.

My first missed payment will be on Jan 1st, 2011. Based on some information I've obtained from the following site (MN Home Ownership Center), I will have approximately 11 to 12 months to remain in the house before an eviction will be filed.

Helpful Fact Sheets

Because of Minnesota being a non-recourse state,


“deficiency judgment is

not allowed if a mortgage is foreclosed by advertisement . . . and has a redemption period of six months or five weeks.”

"Since most foreclosure sales in Minnesota are by advertisement, and most homeowners get a six month or five week redemption period, most foreclosed homeowners will not have a deficiency judgment against them."

I'm a little nervous about the whole process but I feel that this is the right thing to do for my family as I am a divorced mother of 4. I need to think of their future at this time.

I'll update info on my strategic default as time goes on. Wish me luck.

[Jackatkc]

Good luck to you! I am doing the same thing in Missouri. Today is the first day I am officially late on anything for the first time in my life. Feels kind of weird, but am happy to get the process going.

Make sure to try and sock away your mortgage payments. I'm sure it will come in handy to pay of other debts and to have a deposit for your new place.

Again, best of luck...

[blssed2bme]

I found this website that list all states that have redemption periods. Redemption

Here is the info listed for Minnesota:
Redemption period 6 months.

Redemption period increases to 12 months if the property size is greater than 10 acres with additional limitation, the mortgage premises exceeds 40 acres, or if the amount due as of the date of the notice of foreclosure sale is less than 2/3 of the original principal amount.

I'm curious about what the last part means "the amount due as of the date of the notice of foreclosure sale is less than 2/3 of the original principal amount." Does this mean if the house sells for 2/3 less than the loan amount, I get 12 months? The loan on the house now is $133K. If it sells for $87K I can stay here for 12 months instead of 6 months after the sheriff's sale?

[Gimpster]

Hello, I'm walking on a Wells Fargo loan too in Iowa.

Its not listed on that site you linked, but Iowa is also a redemption state in certain circumstances. If the bank waives deficiency ... no redemption period and they get the house fast. If they come after you, you can usually expect a 6-12mo delay for redemption on top of everything else. I realize the laws of Iowa have nothing to do with you, but figured I'd post that.

FWIW, I looked for about 3-4 hours on my countys Clerk of Court at Wells Fargo foreclosures over the past 3 years. In not one I could find did they persue deficiency. So I have a feeling you'll be OK too. If your county also has a nice court recording site it might be worth your time looking there too.

PS: Wells Fargo is pretty much relentless about calling after your grace period is up. I would highly reccomend sending in a cease and desist like now. Also changing all of your phone numbers to a Google Voice helped quite a bit too.

[blssed2bme]

Thanks Gimpster for the tip. I'll b searching for a good cease and desist letter today. Great idead!

Hello, I'm walking on a Wells Fargo loan too in Iowa.

Its not listed on that site you linked, but Iowa is also a redemption state in certain circumstances. If the bank waives deficiency ... no redemption period and they get the house fast. If they come after you, you can usually expect a 6-12mo delay for redemption on top of everything else. I realize the laws of Iowa have nothing to do with you, but figured I'd post that.

FWIW, I looked for about 3-4 hours on my countys Clerk of Court at Wells Fargo foreclosures over the past 3 years. In not one I could find did they persue deficiency. So I have a feeling you'll be OK too. If your county also has a nice court recording site it might be worth your time looking there too.

PS: Wells Fargo is pretty much relentless about calling after your grace period is up. I would highly reccomend sending in a cease and desist like now. Also changing all of your phone numbers to a Google Voice helped quite a bit too.

[blssed2bme]

This is related to the property but not about the default.

The main sewer has backed up EVERY year since I've been in the house, however, I have Centerpoint Energy Service Plus that comes and repairs it. This year, however, it has backed up 4x, including 3x between T'giving and Dec 3rd. I paid $300 to have a camera go thru the pipes and they found various offsets in the sewer system. Because of this, Centerpoint canceled the main drain sewer repair plan until its fixed.

The cost is from $5k to $10k and there is no way I'm paying that. However, when the next owner takes over the house, I'd like for them to know the issues with that system.

Is there some way that I can warn any potential buyer about this costly problem? I know I'm a long way off from that but I'd hate to see a new family move in here and not know the potential damages/lost of items stored in the basement.

Any advise?

[Angels]

Regarding the condition of the home, a realtor is required to notify a potential buyer of any issues with the home. So I think you will have to wait until it is foreclosed and put up for sale by the bank, then notify the realtor of the issue and let them know you will also send a letter to the new owner after the sale letting them know about the problem and that you notified the realtor. At least that way the new owner will have some recourse against the realtor if they are not notified before the sale.

[gymboreecloset]

Thanks Gimpster for the tip. I'll b searching for a good cease and desist letter today. Great idead!

Hi! We are also starting the walk away journey January 2011 with Wells Fargo in Minnesota. I am wondering where do you get a cease and desist letter at, and also what Wells Fargo address do you mail it to?

[sclay1983]

I don't know about a prime mortgage but the correspondence address for Wells Fargo Home Equity is

Wells Fargo Home Equity Dept
PO Box 4233
Portland, OR 92708-4233

[blssed2bme]

Thank you Angel. I will definitely do this. I would just hate for someone to walk into this mess unaware like I did.

[blssed2bme]

Hi Gymboree and Sclay1983 ... Looks like we will be the three amigos as we are all doing the walkaway with Wells Fargo in Minnesota.

I found a example of a cease and desist letter at the bottom of the attached link. The address for my primary WF loan is:

Wells Fargo Home Mortgage
Centralized Processing
AU 36331
PO Box 1629
Minneapolis, MN 55440-1629

Debt Defense 101™: The 3 Must Send Letters

Hi! We are also starting the walk away journey January 2011 with Wells Fargo in Minnesota. I am wondering where do you get a cease and desist letter at, and also what Wells Fargo address do you mail it to?

[gymboreecloset]

Thank you blssed2bme

[tri-thunder]

Make that potentially 4 amigos. I thought I had my wife convinced last year, but she wanted to try to work it out. It's not working, but she's not getting the message. We have a crap storm about to hit us with a student loan default and not sure where that will take us, but I'm ready to walk from the house, (sit until they move us out and pay off as much other junk as we can before we do move). Just not sure how long it will take for her to realize our situation. Probably when they start taking payroll deductions and tax returns. I'm not too concerned about finding a new place as long as we have 2-3 months rent in advance to drop down, plus foreclosures being a pervasive as they are now. Best of luck and I'll be checking in occassionally with y'all to see how it's going. Also WF.

[blssed2bme]

Hopefully you and your wife will be able to decide on the best approach for your situation. I will definitely update as my process moves along!!

Make that potentially 4 amigos. I thought I had my wife convinced last year, but she wanted to try to work it out. It's not working, but she's not getting the message. We have a crap storm about to hit us with a student loan default and not sure where that will take us, but I'm ready to walk from the house, (sit until they move us out and pay off as much other junk as we can before we do move). Just not sure how long it will take for her to realize our situation. Probably when they start taking payroll deductions and tax returns. I'm not too concerned about finding a new place as long as we have 2-3 months rent in advance to drop down, plus foreclosures being a pervasive as they are now. Best of luck and I'll be checking in occassionally with y'all to see how it's going. Also WF.

[Angels]

Isn’t there a Minnesota law that prevents eviction during the winter months?

[Gimpster]

Is the student loan government or private? For a while my wife had a private AND Direct Loan in default. The private loan (Nelnet) charged it off, but the Direct Loan they garnished until she could bring it back current this summer.

Like I said in another thread, bad month for Wells Fargo if this forum is any indication.

Hopefully you two can see eye-to-eye soon.

Make that potentially 4 amigos. I thought I had my wife convinced last year, but she wanted to try to work it out. It's not working, but she's not getting the message. We have a crap storm about to hit us with a student loan default and not sure where that will take us, but I'm ready to walk from the house, (sit until they move us out and pay off as much other junk as we can before we do move). Just not sure how long it will take for her to realize our situation. Probably when they start taking payroll deductions and tax returns. I'm not too concerned about finding a new place as long as we have 2-3 months rent in advance to drop down, plus foreclosures being a pervasive as they are now. Best of luck and I'll be checking in occassionally with y'all to see how it's going. Also WF.

[sclay1983]

Isn’t there a Minnesota law that prevents eviction during the winter months?

I know they can't turn your power off in the winter months - not sure about eviction though.

[tri-thunder]

I believe it's Govt thru Great Lakes? Unfortunately we're not quite eye to eye on the reality of our situation, and funny thing is, I'm the eternal optimist of the relationship. If it leads to garnishment, I think she'll come around rather quickly... I hope.

[blssed2bme]

Random thoughts...

...and it starts!! I missed my first mortgage payment this month. It is not officially late until the 15th of the month though. I have to admit, I am a little nervouse about the process even though I've researched enough information for Loansafe.org and others to know that I'm doing the right thing for my family.

I've decided to even have a little fun out of this. I'm planning on taking my family on vacation this summer. Most likely somewhere locally (Wisconsin Dells, Breezy Point) but this was something that we've only done once so hey...why not?

I've taken my Jan. mortgage payment and used it to pay down some credit card debt. I will start saving the funds with my first Jan. paycheck. I'd like to have anywhere from $10K to $15K saved by the time I have to move.

PS -- I've been checking out the house rentals in my same neighborhood and I can not believe how much house I can get with slightly less payment than my mortgage amount. My kids want to move NOW but no way I'm passing up the chance to save some cash. Have a good day!

[Angels]

The Wisconsin Dells bring back some childhood memories. isn’t that the location of the "house on the rocks"?

[blssed2bme]

So today I am officially late on my mortgage since I'm not make my Jan 2011 payment. Nervous but excited about foreclosure process because I get to relief from some debt, increase my savings and retirement accounts and get some of my lost equity back by not paying mortgage.

[sclay1983]

Hi Blessed, I’m about a month ahead of you and no serious consequences at all yet. Phone calls about twice a day from Wells… but they’ve only left one message, and that was over a week ago. I haven’t spoken with them yet. I am 41 days late so far. Hang in there, don’t be nervous (easy for me to say!!!), you have lots of compadres here on this board!
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Also, my husband just successfully rented an apartment in ffice:smarttags" />lace w:st="on">Henderson, NVlace> (starting a new job next week) in a nice area with no problems whatsoever credit wise. They did a credit report and all they said was “it looked good”. I’ll join him this summer after graduation (for my youngest).

[blssed2bme]

Received my 1st call from WF Mortgage on Saturday. I'll string them along and let me call me a bit before I send them my cease and desist letter. Maybe doing it this way will prolong the foreclosure process so I can get 12+ months of rent free living. LOL

[sclay1983]

Received my 1st call from WF Mortgage on Saturday. I'll string them along and let me call me a bit before I send them my cease and desist letter. Maybe doing it this way will prolong the foreclosure process so I can get 12+ months of rent free living. LOL

I did the Google Voice thing -- it's a lifesaver. I don't have it forward to my phone, just to my e-mail. The e-mails tell me who called, if they left a message or not, and if they did, I can listen to it directly from the e-mail. So far the only message is, "Please call us at blah blah blah, again, please call us at..." Nobody actually has my GV number but Wells Fargo, since I signed up specifically for that purpose. The calls are strange... some days 2 or 3, on Sunday there were 5, 4 of them every 30-45 minutes. I'm curious how the robo-call rotation works because there's nothing predictable about the time of day that they're calling. We're approaching 60 days on Feb 7th... I'd like them to just hurry up and get this over with. I'm hoping by not answering that they'll maybe fast track it. I expect to be out by the summer anyway.

[Gimpster]

I've noticed as time has gone on WF calls from different #'s and leaves different messages. I assume this is you moving down the line in severity on the foreclosure process.

For the longest I got called everyday w/VM (robo call) from "Julie" 866-292-3933. Now I'm getting calls with no name from 800-284-4322.

[Angels]

we allways received calls from jessica. i guess they hired a new voice.

[blssed2bme]

Calls have stepped up...getting two or three a day between my cell and my home. Not a problem for me since I just don't answer the phone. But I think I'll have my cease and desist letter ready just in case.

[sclay1983]

Calls have stepped up...getting two or three a day between my cell and my home. Not a problem for me since I just don't answer the phone. But I think I'll have my cease and desist letter ready just in case.

Google voice is wonderful. I don’t even have the number forward to my cell or house, but to my e-mail. So I’m not getting pestered with calls at bad times; the nice thing about Google voice is I have a perfect record of the calls, and when they do leave a message (Lots and lots of missed calls (hang ups) but only about 3 actual voice mails so far, and they’ve only said “call this number yada yada”, there is a recording of the voice mails on my e-mail so I can listen. I haven’t bothered with a cease and desist yet, even though I’m still thinking about it. At first I forwarded the google voice calls to my cell phone, and then that was getting annoying so I went back into my settings and changed it to just send me e-mails. Much better now.
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I am getting calls from 4 different Wells Fargo numbers now, Arizona, Oregon, Iowa and an 877 number… just shy of 60 days past due now.

[andrena]

I'm in Minnesota, recently was foreclosed by Wells Fargo. Beyond the robocalls there were numerous required notices referring me to the various assistance programs plus both phone and mail invites to their cattle call modification events. I didn't much deal with them.

They used LPS to check occupancy. I received notices to return (affirming occupancy) quite often during the first 9 months, then nothing until the end of the redemption period. The one program I spoke with told me it was most important to keep affirming occupancy, so I did that. Also they did at least one door knock check and at least one drive-by that I saw.

I had the sheriff sale postponed, thereby doing the 5 week redemption period rather than the 6 month period. After filing the papers to have the sale postponed I received one notice from the foreclosure law firm of the rescheduled sale date (5 months hence) and then heard not one more word from them or from WF about the sale.

I slightly miscalculated the end of my redemption period so was still in my house beyond that. I received a letter from (I think it was) an Occupancy Services asking me to call. They offered me cash for keys, I declined. They didn't otherwise care about my moving or not, said they were contracted only to do cash for keys signups.

Called the foreclosure law firm to let them know I was still there and moving out (so nobody would change the locks until I was done). They didn't care, they said outside of the initial foreclosure packet and the one notice of each sale date, they weren't paid to do anything else. After I asked, they gave me the number of some WF department... Dislocation Services or some such. So I called them to tell them I was moving out. They had no idea my redemption period was up and tried to argue with me that I could/should stay longer. I told them I would be gone on X day (actually gave myself another extra week at that point) and to please send someone out shortly thereafter due to the cold weather.

After all that, someone came out on an occupancy check and I just said I'm moving out on X day and they said okay thanks.

Finished my move on X day (now a few weeks after the end of redemption period). The next afternoon I was driving by the house when the same truck pulled in. I stopped and confirmed that I'd completed my move and asked if they would like me to unlock the door. They were pleased to not have to drill the lock.

I've since received an offer from WF for a discounted home equity loan (on that same house) and a notice that my insurance has lapsed and they've purchased new insurance for me and I should go buy my own policy and provide them the details.

[sclay1983]

Andrena, thank you - this is fantastic information. I've had the sinking feeling that I will not have a quick foreclosure and will be out long before my 6 months RofR is up, let alone my trustee sale. I'm not counting on cash for keys... Great to know about LPS and the occupancy checks. Not surprised at the fact that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at WF.

Sorry Blessed, hope I'm not hijacking your thread! Just happy to have some MN/WF info!

[blssed2bme]

sclay1983 @ LOL --- You are definitely not hijacking the thread!! Funny....I'm glad that there is a forum for those specifically in Minnesota so please keep it up.

@ andrena -- thanks for sharing your information. I have a question (or two) for you:
How long from 1st missed payment to move out were you in the house?
Are was the advantage of doing the sheriff sales postponement for you being that you still had approx 6months rent free?
Was there a disadvantage to not doing the Cash for Keys?

I am now re-thinking some things because my daughters are in the 7th grade and they want to stay at the same school thru 8th. I'd like to stay in the house for as long as possible since they graduate 8th in June 2012 (but I know the foreclosure will def not last that long.

BTW -- 1st missed payment was Jan 2011.

[andrena]

>> How long from 1st missed payment to move out were you in the house?

15.5 months

>> Are was the advantage of doing the sheriff sales postponement for you being that you still had approx 6months rent free?

I would have had about the same period of time - it's designed that way. For me the advantages were
a) hadn't quite made up my mind about what I wanted to do at the time of first sheriff's sale date
b) didn't want the bank or anyone to be snooping around, bothering me, maybe change my locks even by accident, because they had 'bought' the house while I was still there

What I found out at the end also, was that the vultures really swooped down - real estate and attorney and investor fakers and manipulators - after the sheriff's sale. So I was spared five months of that hassle by postponing.

>> Was there a disadvantage to not doing the Cash for Keys?[/QUOTE]

That I didn't get the money, of course, but nothing else that I'm aware of.

[sclay1983]

>> What I found out at the end also, was that the vultures really swooped down - real estate and attorney and investor fakers and manipulators - after the sheriff's sale. So I was spared five months of that hassle by postponing.

Can you expand on this a little more? What do you mean by investor "fakers"/manipulators and what were they trying to do? How did you know they weren't actually involved with your lender? Thanks for shedding some light on this.

[andrena]

Can you expand on this a little more? What do you mean by investor "fakers"/manipulators and what were they trying to do? How did you know they weren't actually involved with your lender? Thanks for shedding some light on this.

The lenders sent the same mailings before the sale as after. There was never a question what was from them and what was not.

Most sheriff sales have the six month redemption period, so I was suddenly beseiged with calls and letters to help me save my home and/or credit, and reminders that I had six months to do so. Some of them were straightforward (whether letterhead or voicemail) and from legit real estate agents. Many, probably most, weren't though. Some would send whatever they could dig up on me from public records to show they "understood my troubles" and wanted to help - creepy! Some pretended to be neighbors or potential homestead buyers when google showed clearly they were not. We're talking things like sending handwritten letters, (alleged) family photos, and voicemail messages designed to manipulate. Generally they posed as a)angels out to save me because of their kind hearts or b) brilliant insiders who knew the secrets to bail me out for free. Essentially, my snail mail and voicemail were flooded with grammatically correct Nigerian spam.

I received another (forwarded) cash for keys inquiry letter a few days ago. Left hand, right hand...

[sclay1983]

Generally they posed as a)angels out to save me because of their kind hearts or b) brilliant insiders who knew the secrets to bail me out for free. Essentially, my snail mail and voicemail were flooded with grammatically correct Nigerian spam.

Yikes!!! I had no idea that this could happen -- thank you so much. This is great information. Forewarned is forearmed! I love this website!

[blssed2bme]

It's been a while since I've posted so I wanted to give you all an update on my walk

Still getting calls to cell and home from automated collection dialer. I also received communication in the mail from WF with info on how to save my home if your having financial issues yada yada yada. I even got a certified letter that I had to sign which i did to verify that I'm still at the address.

Today I got a call from 877-511-2272 which is the Housing Education Program Agency in San Francisco. Apparently, WF referred me to them to help me during my hardship. This probably stemmed from the fact that I sent WF a hardship letter as a way of keeping the lines of communication open and to postpone the foreclosure as long as I can.

Anyway....I will probably call the group back to see what they have to say. Again...I want to postpone the foreclosure because I feel like I might as well do what I can to get free rent out of this place that I've sent thousands on remodeling.

More to come after I call them back..

[blssed2bme]

Not a whole lot has been happening. Two or three calls a day, I got a certified letter that I signed for at the post office from WF. I even had someone come by the house, attach a letter to the door asking me to call the bank.

Yesterday, I got a letter from WF saying they are referring my file to their attorney to begin foreclosure process. I actually breathed a sigh of relief because I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. My family is ready to move to a better place with a full size basement and 2 full baths lol.

Need to check my credit score since it's been 4 months since I've paid the mortgage.

[blssed2bme]

Just check credit score. Down to 672 from 690 on March 7, 2011. Not too bad but Im sure it will drop more.

[sclay1983]

Hi Blessed,

Mine is a little different than yours, I got a certified letter that was basically notice of default (about 2 weeks ago) and that I had until 4/28 to bring all past due payments/fees current. If not then they will accelerate. I'm going to be out of here in two months so the sooner they get the ball rolling, the sooner I can stop paying homeowner's insurance! I haven't seen any letters from attorneys yet. I'm so glad I did the cease and desist letter -- no calls from them since late February. My credit is still at 674.

State: Minnesota, Dakota County
Lender: WFHE
Last pymt: November 2010
NOD: 4/2/11
NOS: Nothing yet

[blssed2bme]

It looks like it's coming to a head. I received a letter from WF saying that they are forwarding my file to their attorney to begin the foreclosure process. When I received it, I felt a momentary shiver as I thought about how I will be homeless soon. Then I quickly came back to my sense, especially with the 6 month redemption period that Minnesota has and the fact that I have been faithfully saving my "mortgage payments". When I finally move out, I will have a hefty savings account that will defray my moving costs. My plan is to not take a lot of the furniture due to its age --- this will be a new beginning for my family with a more modern house (for rent) with new furniture!! Yeah!!

PS - I was talking with a friend who saves his buddy got to live in their house for 15 months before they had to move. While a longer stay would help to increase the savings account, I'm not sure I could stay that long in the place now because I'm so anxious to start anew.
　
PSS -- Here is a link that I found that you can search on to see if you're home is on the foreclosuring listing with the sheriffs dept. If anyone has another/better site, please let me know

Thanks

http://www4.co.hennepin.mn.us/webforeclosure/search.asp