My walk from Rancho Cordova CA begins...

[Strategic_Default]

So I posted much of this in other threads, but I am going to start a new thread here to document my (and my wife's) story.

Here is my situation:
1. Purchased house in 2007 for 392k with and Countrywide (now BofA) 80/20 all purchase loan. 1st and 2nd are both non-recourse (Gotta love the golden state! )
2. Owe 377k
3. House is valued at approximately 225k
4. Wife is pregnant due in April (that complicates things a little )
5. We can afford the mortgage but since we can rent a similar house for $1200-$1500 less per month it is foolish to stay. This is a strategic default.
6. Credit scores: Mine- 780 Wifes-721
7. Last payment: 10/1/2010. My November payment isn't officially late until 11/15.

Our plan:
Due to all the horror stories and my confidence we would be denied anyways, I am not interested in pursuing a Mod, DIL, or SS. We will stay in the house until we get a sale date and will then decide if we want to press our luck and try for C4K. When the phone calls start, I plan to tell them to only call our house phone. That way they only deal with me and my pregnant wife doesn't have the stress associated with the harassment. If they continue to call our cell phones, I will send a cease and desist letter.

After much thought we have also decided we have no need for a lawyer at this point. CA laws are pretty straight forward and since we are not willing to pursue a mod, etc, I don't think there is any reason we will need one. If that changes I have found a Bankruptcy lawyer in town who specializes in foreclosures whom I will pay hourly if the need arises.

Since we have BofA (and they seem to be the slowest at foreclosing) I figure the earliest we could be out of our house is June 2011 (that would be with a 2 month old baby ), but we might get lucky and be able to spend next Halloween here too. I am not going to do anything to speed up the process but I won't try to delay it either.

Saturday I paid bills and the mortgage was not among them. Missing our first payment was a little unnerving and a little empowering. Set aside the "mortgage" payment into a separate savings account in case we decide to back out a couple months down the road (I don't see that happening though).

[goldie]

So I posted much of this in other threads, but I am going to start a new thread here to document my (and my wife's) story.

Here is my situation:
1. Purchased house in 2007 for 392k with and Countrywide (now BofA) 80/20 all purchase loan. 1st and 2nd are both non-recourse (Gotta love the golden state! )
2. Owe 377k
3. House is valued at approximately 225k
4. Wife is pregnant due in April (that complicates things a little )
5. We can afford the mortgage but since we can rent a similar house for $1200-$1500 less per month it is foolish to stay. This is a strategic default.
6. Credit scores: Mine- 780 Wifes-721
7. Last payment: 10/1/2010. My November payment isn't officially late until 11/15.

Our plan:
Due to all the horror stories and my confidence we would be denied anyways, I am not interested in pursuing a Mod, DIL, or SS. We will stay in the house until we get a sale date and will then decide if we want to press our luck and try for C4K. When the phone calls start, I plan to tell them to only call our house phone. That way they only deal with me and my pregnant wife doesn't have the stress associated with the harassment. If they continue to call our cell phones, I will send a cease and desist letter.

After much thought we have also decided we have no need for a lawyer at this point. CA laws are pretty straight forward and since we are not willing to pursue a mod, etc, I don't think there is any reason we will need one. If that changes I have found a Bankruptcy lawyer in town who specializes in foreclosures whom I will pay hourly if the need arises.

Since we have BofA (and they seem to be the slowest at foreclosing) I figure the earliest we could be out of our house is June 2011 (that would be with a 2 month old baby ), but we might get lucky and be able to spend next Halloween here too. I am not going to do anything to speed up the process but I won't try to delay it either.

Saturday I paid bills and the mortgage was not among them. Missing our first payment was a little unnerving and a little empowering. Set aside the "mortgage" payment into a separate savings account in case we decide to back out a couple months down the road (I don't see that happening though).

Have you thought about finding out what is wrong with the securitization process in your loan and finding the loopholes and hiring an attorney to force a principal reduction to fair market value during settlement talks? Countrywide is LOADED with fraud from the origination. Loans never made it into the trusts by the cut-off date and per IRS rules once past the cut-off date, cannot be put in. Do you have a MERS mortgage? What if you could negotiate your mortgage down to the 1200 to 1500 range? If you win, you could always rent out the home and move elsewhere. And you haven't trashed your credit too badly if you file an interpleader action and make your mortgage payments into an escrow account with the court.

[OnMyWay2theFuture]

Strategic Default -

Sign up for a credit reporting agency and keep constant watch on any deficiencies reported.
Dispute every single one of them.
Pay off all other loans that show up on your credit report in the time that you have.

Good luck!

[Strategic_Default]

Goldie... That would certainly be OK with me if the bank would re-negotiate my principal down to the actual value. Do you know of anyone being able to do that? If it is likely, I'm willing to pursue it but if it's just a shot in the dark and it isn't a regular occurrence, I don't know that I want to pay for a lawyer to pursue it. If I stop paying now, and lots of people start getting the bank to negotiate, I don't think my being behind will really change much. I would think I could still pursue it at that point.

Onmyway... How would disputing all of the deficiencies help? Wouldn't they just show up a month or two later once it is confirmed they are correct?

[kjackson]

Strategic Default -

Sign up for a credit reporting agency and keep constant watch on any deficiencies reported.
Dispute every single one of them.
Pay off all other loans that show up on your credit report in the time that you have.

Good luck!

Are there any recommended credit reporting agencies? It feels like so many of them are scams I don't know which one I should get in order to protect myself!

Thanks in advance,

Ken

[davephx]

Goldie... That would certainly be OK with me if the bank would re-negotiate my principal down to the actual value. Do you know of anyone being able to do that? I

Many have done that... in their dreams.

There have been a few wins but with unusual situations. I don't recall Goldie's expereince but very unlikely to use MERS/ securitization to get the banks to do anything without a long expensive court battle.

10/20/10 Reuters - Thus when that young activist lawyer is telling you and yours to fight a foreclosure — this even though you have not paid the mortgage in more than six months — it is time to start looking for a new place to live. The fact is that despite all of the bad press, MERS (done correctly) eventually wins in most foreclosure hearings that are contested.

Source with other very interesting things but bad related to MERs Everything that Americans should ask about home mortgages | Analysis & Opinion |

[Strategic_Default]

I think she means the standard ones... Experian, Transunion, Equifax. Each one also sells credit monitoring too.

[Strategic_Default]

Davephx - That's what I figured. I also checked for my house on MERS and FHA is listed as the investor. That leads me to believe my mortgage was not securitized. The market was already starting to collapse when we bought our home so I believe fewer hedge funds, etc were willing to buy CDO's at that point.

[goldie]

Davephx - That's what I figured. I also checked for my house on MERS and FHA is listed as the investor. That leads me to believe my mortgage was not securitized. The market was already starting to collapse when we bought our home so I believe fewer hedge funds, etc were willing to buy CDO's at that point.

Plenty of Freddies (FHA) are securitized. It is estimated that 90% of the loans made between 2001 and 2008 are securitized. Forget where I read that fact, but you can Google it. MERS is losing many a battle and has had qui tam and RICO suits filed against it in recent days. Perhaps Dave believes MERS' PR spin, the facts show differently. The major banks have even given MERS the heave-ho and are going back to recording the old fashioned way. Chase stopped using MERS 2 years ago. Yes, it does involve fighting an expensive court battle, but I'd rather do that and pursue the banksters for their wrongdoing, as I have a strong case, than take some crappy modification that expires in 5 years.

Oh, and one more thing, MERS database that is available to the public to "look up" their information is riddled with errors. I wouldn't trust anything MERS or the big banksters tell you. Always verify the information.

[Strategic_Default]

Thanks Goldie. I will keep this in mind as our sitution progresses. MERS is a big mess and while it's possible that the problems could effect our mortgage, I am going to hold off on getting a lawyer for now. Unless the problems would be big enough to allow us to keep our house at market value without providing the bank with our financials, I would rather just foreclose. If it starts to look like there are lots of cases where homeowners are able to do that, I will pursue it then.

I just don't want to invest the money, time and effort into this when it appears to be quite unlikely. The main reason we are avoiding a Mod, DIL, or SS is because we want to make this as easy (less paperwork phone calls and stress) as possible.

[goldie]

Thanks Goldie. I will keep this in mind as our sitution progresses. MERS is a big mess and while it's possible that the problems could effect our mortgage, I am going to hold off on getting a lawyer for now. Unless the problems would be big enough to allow us to keep our house at market value without providing the bank with our financials, I would rather just foreclose. If it starts to look like there are lots of cases where homeowners are able to do that, I will pursue it then.

I just don't want to invest the money, time and effort into this when it appears to be quite unlikely. The main reason we are avoiding a Mod, DIL, or SS is because we want to make this as easy (less paperwork phone calls and stress) as possible.

I don't know where you are getting info from that it is "quite unlikely". Quite a few cases settle before they ever get in front of the judge - during settlement negotiations; my own attorney and several others on livinglies are proof. Unfortunately, the other side usually asks for a confidentiality agreement so you can't discuss the case. That is why you don't hear of many, except second-hand.

[Strategic_Default]

I don't know where you are getting info from that it is "quite unlikely". Quite a few cases settle before they ever get in front of the judge - during settlement negotiations; my own attorney and several others on livinglies are proof. Unfortunately, the other side usually asks for a confidentiality agreement so you can't discuss the case. That is why you don't hear of many, except second-hand.

That's just it I don't have any information. And since I haven't heard about it (despite my extensive research about the foreclosure process) I figure it is unlikely. A confidentiality agreement would definitely explain my lack of information.

I did a quick search at saccourt.com (the Sacramento Country Court system) and found lots of lawsuits against MERS, and Mortgage Electronic Registration Stystems. Most of these were a citizen plantiff v. MERS. So I am convinced there is something to what you are saying.

I have found several lawsuits (none of them in California) where the court ruled a borrower's obligation to repay the mortgage were unaffected by MERS. Can you point to any where a court ruled otherwise? A cofidentiality agreement would only apply to cases settled before a ruling.

If I do pursue this where should I begin? Get a consultation? Have a forensic audit done on my title and loan docs? Should I pay this month while I pursue this or go ahead and fall behind?

[goldie]

That's just it I don't have any information. And since I haven't heard about it (despite my extensive research about the foreclosure process) I figure it is unlikely. A confidentiality agreement would definitely explain my lack of information.

I did a quick search at saccourt.com (the Sacramento Country Court system) and found lots of lawsuits against MERS, and Mortgage Electronic Registration Stystems. Most of these were a citizen plantiff v. MERS. So I am convinced there is something to what you are saying.

I have found several lawsuits (none of them in California) where the court ruled a borrower's obligation to repay the mortgage were unaffected by MERS. Can you point to any where a court ruled otherwise? A cofidentiality agreement would only apply to cases settled before a ruling.

If I do pursue this where should I begin? Get a consultation? Have a forensic audit done on my title and loan docs? Should I pay this month while I pursue this or go ahead and fall behind?

Here's one. California Court Rules: MERS Can Here's another on quiet title (but non-MERS - still demonstrates you can sue your "lender" AND WIN): CALIFORNIA 'QUIET TITLE' VICTORY: PAUL NGUYEN V. CHASE et al

and some commenters who comment on this site (including several attorneys): MERS — Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems « Livinglies's Weblog

These people are pioneers and I'm strongly encouraged. There are many more cases filed in the Fed District courts (including BK court). The BK judges are the ones who are most likely to "get it". A PACER account is free if you don't go over $10 every quarter. Otherwise the charge to view/print is 0.8 per page. I believe more and more people are going to hop on the bandwagon and sue the hell out of their pretender-lenders and MERS.

I cannot advise you to pay or not pay - but my personal opinion is that you probably should continue to pay until you decide on some kind of strategy. Do go see an attorney who "gets it" (one who understands securitization issues, MERS fraud and mortgage servicer fraud) in the meantime just to see what your options are. If the attorney does not specialize in or understand these issues, you are wasting your money. Check the livinglies site for attorney list, NACA (nat'l association of consumer advocate attorneys) or Max Gardner's BK Bootcamp Graduates - you don't have to BK - they just have taken his courses in securitization/servicing. At the very least, find out what your rights and remedies are. You don't have to fight, but you should at least know your options. There are no guarantees, but I feel strongly about my case & I'm willing to take the chance.

Here's another link to a guy who fought MERS successfully and won quiet title, but he's not in CA, and his suit was before all of the MERS fraud TRULY came to light (in the last month or so). Chink in the Armor

[Strategic_Default]

Goldie... I've read a lot of your posts and it appears you have pursued this yourself. How is the fight going? Have you gotten the bank to agree to anything? Does your title appear to have defects? Are you attempting to rescind your loan?

[goldie]

We just filed suit in Sept, so way too early to tell. Bank has not responded to QWRs, nor ever filed a proof of claim. Here are links to a couple attorneys in your area (one is info only - he's not taking new cases): CALIFORNIA Sacramento CA Bankruptcy Lawyer | California Immigration & Criminal Defense Attorney Both of them were involved in the Rickie Walker case.

P.S. Yes, many defects and no not attempting to rescind at this time, although we can always amend the complaint. We are trying to determine lien validity. There also appears to be some BK fraud on the part of the "lenders" who are involved - moving assets around without the permission of the trustee in a lender's Chap 11 case. It will be interesting to see what happens with THAT.

[Strategic_Default]

Thanks! I filled out the form on their site and asked about a consultation.

It still seems a little cloudy to me as to what this all means. Based on my reading of the cases (the one’s I’ve read so far), when the court does rule in favor of the borrower, it rules that MERS and the Servicer do not have the authority to foreclose. It does not rule that no one has the authority. Isn't this just delaying a foreclosure and not stopping one? I guess it could take months or even years to get things straightened out but if only the originator of the title can foreclose without a proper transfer, why can't they just go through the process of manually transferring the title from the originator then begin foreclosure process again? I guess that can be good if I want to extend my rent free stay.

It just doesn't make sense (not that law always makes sense) that because paperwork wasn't filed properly that I could keep my property, never have to pay the loan, and the investor for my loan would be out the 377k I still owe.

There may be fraud involved in all this, but that fraud doesn’t seem to change the basics of this transaction. I took out a loan for my house and that loan is owed to someone and if I don’t pay, someone gets the house. It may take a long time to find out whom that someone is. Predatory lending is where I could see some of this working for the borrower. But I was in no way the victim of predatory lending (maybe I’d be better off if I was).

[goldie]

Thanks! I filled out the form on their site and asked about a consultation.

It still seems a little cloudy to me as to what this all means. Based on my reading of the cases (the one’s I’ve read so far), when the court does rule in favor of the borrower, it rules that MERS and the Servicer do not have the authority to foreclose. It does not rule that no one has the authority. Isn't this just delaying a foreclosure and not stopping one? I guess it could take months or even years to get things straightened out but if only the originator of the title can foreclose without a proper transfer, why can't they just go through the process of manually transferring the title from the originator then begin foreclosure process again? I guess that can be good if I want to extend my rent free stay.

It just doesn't make sense (not that law always makes sense) that because paperwork wasn't filed properly that I could keep my property, never have to pay the loan, and the investor for my loan would be out the 377k I still owe.

There may be fraud involved in all this, but that fraud doesn’t seem to change the basics of this transaction. I took out a loan for my house and that loan is owed to someone and if I don’t pay, someone gets the house. It may take a long time to find out whom that someone is. Predatory lending is where I could see some of this working for the borrower. But I was in no way the victim of predatory lending (maybe I’d be better off if I was).

Yes, we DO owe the money to "someone" - I do agree - it just ISN'T MERS or the "pretender-lender". This is what MERS and Wall Street has done to us - clouded our titles and screwed the investors and homeowners over. What I don't understand are the people "moralizing" that you owe somebody so it might as well be the person who says you owe them. What if I were to come to court and say you owed me for your house? I'd be kicked out of court in a hot second if I held no note and no proof. For some reason, the judges are not examining the banksters claims and are accepting fraudulant manufactured documents. Did you deliberately destroy the note on origination so that you could play accounting and derivative games with our MBS? No problem! Get a new one from DocX for only 14.95 or a whole file "recreated" for 95.00! Only we don't quite have the cerulean blue "wet ink" signature quite right yet.

The true creditor MUST be proven and why should anyone continue to pay someone who says you owe them when they cannot prove it in a court of law? These Wall Street banksters and their pals at MERS have not only SHAFTED the homeowner, they've shafted the investors - our 401K plans and pensions and YET they are NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE. Some of these mortgage backed securities have been paid 3 or more times over through credit default swaps, derivatives and other schemes. Did anyone ask me if I wanted a clouded title? Did anyone ask me if they could gamble with my mortgage? Did anyone bother to read the PSA and find out the rules for REMIC or rules that call out to credit the borrower through the various schemes? No, it was all about greed and bonuses. Now its time to pay. When my true creditor can step forward I am willing to pay - after we have hashed out the PSA and find out what credits I AM DUE in all these fraudulant games that were played without my consent. MERS has also ripped off the county recorders for billions. REMIC rules were broken which should result in IRS taxes and penalities and JAIL.

https://sites.google.com/site/mersfa...alifornia/home

[goldie]

P.S. Most of the originators are out of business. Kind of hard to get a signature from someone who is out of business - although DocX has managed to do it - fraudulantly of course. Also, most of the loans never made it into the trusts by the cut-off date. Once that is past, it cannot be put into the pool. Talk about massive IRS fraud! And if the note is not in the pool, it is unsecured. This was done deliberately of course, so that Wall Steet could keep it off the books and use it 5-6 times over to gamble with. They have their own accounting and balance sheets.

And yes, the true creditor could theoretically step forward - but they would have to prove they are the true creditor and produce the original wet ink note - affidavits and allonges are being called into question due to all the robo signer fraud. What about the folks who never miss a payment and pay for 30 years to some pretender lender that MERS has "transferred interests" to. The homeowners think everything is fine, then one day the true creditor steps forward...then what?

http://livinglies.wordpress.com/2010...-in-the-world/

[luvmyhorse]

Join the protest
in your own state

states that have leaders already
ny
pa
wa
nm
ca

all other states we need leaders

go to my blog to sign up.

This march will be nationwide same day same time

protest the making home affordable scam.....

[Strategic_Default]

Ok... So tomorrow my payment is officially late. No phone calls or anything yet.

Today my mother in-law called my wife and expresses some more concern about the possibility we are ruining our lives by walking away. I have done lots of research and watched Professor Shay's video about deficiencies several times (if you live in CA make sure you watch it Shay's Video Presentation - California Deficiency Judgment Potential). My mother in-law had been talking to a lawyer friend (practices education law - so this is not her field) and she also expressed some concern.

So I want to run this by everyone again and make sure we all agree that there shouldn't be any issues (I am so sure that I don't want to pay $3000 for a lawyer).

I purchased the house with a 100% financing 80/20 loan.
I have read the documents and there is deed of trust language in them.
The builder (it was a new home) paid our closing costs and over paid by $1500.

So after closing, we were given the keys and a check for $1500 (no money out of pocket for this). Now the fact that we got $1500 because the builder overpaid on the closing costs (we had negotiated $10000 prior to closing and they only cost $8500), does that make my loan recourse? I don't think so... As far as I can tell the first and second are still purchase money loans. What is everyone's take on this?

Thanks!

[Strategic_Default]

Update -
So my wife wants the peace of mind that comes with consulting a lawyer. I am 100% sure that our loans are non-recourse (I double checked our loan paperwork and the loans were 100% purchase money), but My wife wants to be able to tell friends and family that we have spoken to a lawyer who confirms our lives will not be ruined by our course of action. So we will be meeting with a lawyer Friday evening for a 1 hour, $295 question and answer session.

Not happy about spending that money to findout something I already know, but if it will make my wife (and inlaws) happy, it will be worth it.

If anyone has a question they want answered regarding CA foreclosures, let me know and I will see if I can get it answered for you!

[Buckus]

If it costs $295 for peace of mind - even if it's not your mind - it's money well spent. Besides, when you stop making the mortgage payment, you'll be able to handily afford that.

[KFish]

Strategic - make sure to bring your loan docs with you to the meeting so he can look them over too

Let us know what he says (even though we know...)

I did the same thing too..cost me $500 but looking back, the peace of mind was well worth it.

[Strategic_Default]

Thanks KFish... I will bring my loan docs with me.

You two are both right I'm sure. It will be worth the peace of mind. And after paying for the lawyer, I'll still have a hell of a lot left since I already missed my November payment.

Proabably silly to be stingey when there is so much money, time and hassle at stake.

[Strategic_Default]

Update:
My wife and I met with a lawyer and surprise surprise he says I am correct that we are not in danger of having any deficiency judgment.

I was definitely worth the $295 to meet with him though. My wife feels much better now and has already passed on the good news to her parents. Of course the good news is not that we can't be sued rather that their son-in-law was once again right! (smile)

I did want to share some information he gave me that might be important to some of you on this board. According to this lawyer all of the protections guaranteed by Civil Codes 580b, 580d, and 726 do not apply if there is any fraud on the part of the borrower. This may be of particular concern for anyone with a "stated income" loan. If your loan paperwork states a higher amount of income than you were actually earning when you took out your loan all bets are off and you may be liable for a deficiency judgment. My wife and I had a conforming loan (not stated income) so we don't have to worry about that.

Also, he believes the risk that some of you are taking by playing hardball with the cash for keys program, is quite high. If you get an unlawful detainer judgment against you it stays on your credit forever. It might not be worth the risk to try and get an extra thousand dollars in the Cash for Keys program.

[TomEason]

Update:
My wife and I met with a lawyer and surprise surprise he says I am correct that we are not in danger of having any deficiency judgment.

I was definitely worth the $295 to meet with him though. My wife feels much better now and has already passed on the good news to her parents. Of course the good news is not that we can't be sued rather that their son-in-law was once again right! (smile)

I did want to share some information he gave me that might be important to some of you on this board. According to this lawyer all of the protections guaranteed by Civil Codes 580b, 580d, and 726 do not apply if there is any fraud on the part of the borrower. This may be of particular concern for anyone with a "stated income" loan. If your loan paperwork states a higher amount of income than you were actually earning when you took out your loan all bets are off and you may be liable for a deficiency judgment. My wife and I had a conforming loan (not stated income) so we don't have to worry about that.

Also, he believes the risk that some of you are taking by playing hardball with the cash for keys program, is quite high. If you get an unlawful detainer judgment against you it stays on your credit forever. It might not be worth the risk to try and get an extra thousand dollars in the Cash for Keys program.

Good news about your not being in danger of deficiency action. But, sounds to me like your lawyers excessive cautions were made to you to justify his fee. Lenders are far from spending their stretched resources to investigate potential borrower fraud. And, I don't agree with his position about unlawful detainers and C4K. Sounds as if he's never been in a contested unlawful detainer case. And, his statement about judgments staying on credit forever is just plain wrong!

[Strategic_Default]

But, sounds to me like your lawyers excessive cautions were made to you to justify his fee. Lenders are far from spending their stretched resources to investigate potential borrower fraud.

That's probably true... anyone with a liars loan will probably be just fine. It was just something I hadn't read on here before so I wanted to pass it on (and increase the value gained from my hour session).

And, his statement about judgments staying on credit forever is just plain wrong!

Are you sure? Do you have a source saying how long they stay on your credit?

I can't find much anything about how long they stay, but I have found multiple sources that say judgments against you (including unlawful detainer judgments) will be on your credit report. That implies to me that they would stay indefinitely unless you can do something to contest it and get it removed (which can be quite difficult).

I certainly understand your position on all this Tomeason, and I expected you would comment on it (I've read your advice about C4K in other threads). I agree that banks will be slow to seek a judgment, and you can probably get the judge to give a stipulated judgment (no judgment if you get out in two weeks for example - I have an acquaintance who did that). But as with anything, it is important to weigh the risks along with the benefits.

I am still going to try for C4K, but I will not push it as much as I think you would.

As a side note... My lawyer has a friend who does the C4K negotiations for a bank (he wouldn't tell me which one) and says a rule of thumb is you should get 1% of the loan for C4K.

Again... I just wanted to pass on the info I paid $295 for. Take it as you wish.

[TomEason]

That's probably true... anyone with a liars loan will probably be just fine. It was just something I hadn't read on here before so I wanted to pass it on (and increase the value gained from my hour session).



Are you sure? Do you have a source saying how long they stay on your credit?

I can't find much anything about how long they stay, but I have found multiple sources that say judgments against you (including unlawful detainer judgments) will be on your credit report. That implies to me that they would stay indefinitely unless you can do something to contest it and get it removed (which can be quite difficult).

I certainly understand your position on all this Tomeason, and I expected you would comment on it (I've read your advice about C4K in other threads). I agree that banks will be slow to seek a judgment, and you can probably get the judge to give a stipulated judgment (no judgment if you get out in two weeks for example - I have an acquaintance who did that). But as with anything, it is important to weigh the risks along with the benefits.

I am still going to try for C4K, but I will not push it as much as I think you would.

As a side note... My lawyer has a friend who does the C4K negotiations for a bank (he wouldn't tell me which one) and says a rule of thumb is you should get 1% of the loan for C4K.

Again... I just wanted to pass on the info I paid $295 for. Take it as you wish.

Strategic_Default, I really do appreciate your sharing your lawyer's opinion on the forum. So, pardon me if I came across as confrontational; that wasn't my intent. I wanted to convey what is realistically likely to happen. I hope no offense was taken, and if so, my apology.

[Strategic_Default]

No worries... I wasn't offended. They weren't my opinions you were attacking anyways (not that attacking my opinions is out of the question - disagreement can help everyone understand more about these complicated issues).

[Strategic_Default]

Update... Today I went to BofA's website to get my Homeowner's Insurance information so I could pay it myself. When I clicked on my mortgage account, I got the following page:


You currently have 1 payment(s) past due for (My account Number) SecondMortgage at (My Address). To prevent further late charges make or schedule a payment today.
Please review your payment options for each of your missed payments. You will need to provide a reason the payments were not received by their due date and you have the opportunity to tell us how you will handle each payment.

• November Payment (Due: 11/01/2010)
• Min Payment: $$$$$

Reason payment not received by due date: *
(Select reason) Illness in Family Income Amount Reduced Oversight Too many other financial obligations Unemployment Decline/Refuse to Answer I would like to: *

Make a payment now 1 Make a payment before 12/22/20102 When will you be able to make your payment? * Method of delivery: * (Select method) Regular US Mail Overnight Mail Priority Mail 2 Day Air Internet / Web Payment MortgagePay on the Phone Western Union Inform you that a payment was already sent When was your payment sent? * Payment amount: * Method of delivery: * (Select method) Regular US Mail Overnight Mail Priority Mail 2 Day Air Internet / Web Payment MortgagePay on the Phone Western Union Inform you that I cannot make a payment at this time Print this page

Footnote ¹ The minimum payment amount includes all past due principal and interest, but does not include any late charges or other fees that may be due on the account; therefore, by paying this amount you will not be paying the total amount due on the account. Footnote ² If you specify a date that is a weekend or holiday, we will use the following business day.

Interestingly this is all in regards to the second mortgage and not the first. Maybe it's because BofA is the investor for the 2nd and Fannie Mae is the investor for the first. They want their money before they worry about other's getting theirs.

I decided not to fill out the form and will wait two more months(when I'm 90 days late) to fill it out. I think at that point I will say that I will pay by the following month. I figure that will help insure we get to say in our house at least until the summer and stall their filing of a NOA or NOD.

[Strategic_Default]

Update:

Today I received two letters from BofA.

The first lets me know that I have missed a payment and that according to my loan documents, they may assess a late charge after 15 days late. I am now 27 days late and if I pay by tomorrow, they will waive the late charge. It is quite nice they are willing to waive the fee, unfortunately, I will not be paying tomorrow or any time after that.

The second letter makes no mention of my missed payment but says "many of our customers are finding it difficult to make their monthly mortgage payments". It goes on to describe some options to avoid foreclosure including Mod, Repayment plans, DIL, SS, and Reinstatement. The letter invites me to call them to discuss my options. I am grateful for the invitation, but I will not be calling.

[Strategic_Default]

Update:
Yesterday I got another letter from BofA. It was one of those perforated sealed letters like the kind that rebate checks often come in. It is a "payment reduction notice."

The top of the form list all of my loan information and under "Loan Modification-Payment Reduction status" it says "Pending Review." The notice asks me to call them to discuss my possible modification. I have not submitted any loan modification paper work and I don't plan to. Has anyone else gotten this notice? Has anyone called on it? It was much more official looking than the last letter I got listing our possible options and inviting us to call.

[luvmyhorse]

They are such crimminals! How dare they solicit people into their evil web with out right lies!

Only prison for the top dogs will stop this!

Update:
Yesterday I got another letter from BofA. It was one of those perforated sealed letters like the kind that rebate checks often come in. It is a "payment reduction notice."

The top of the form list all of my loan information and under "Loan Modification-Payment Reduction status" it says "Pending Review." The notice asks me to call them to discuss my possible modification. I have not submitted any loan modification paper work and I don't plan to. Has anyone else gotten this notice? Has anyone called on it? It was much more official looking than the last letter I got listing our possible options and inviting us to call.

[cmass122]

Update:
Yesterday I got another letter from BofA. It was one of those perforated sealed letters like the kind that rebate checks often come in. It is a "payment reduction notice."

The top of the form list all of my loan information and under "Loan Modification-Payment Reduction status" it says "Pending Review." The notice asks me to call them to discuss my possible modification. I have not submitted any loan modification paper work and I don't plan to. Has anyone else gotten this notice? Has anyone called on it? It was much more official looking than the last letter I got listing our possible options and inviting us to call.

If you are going foreclose, no point responding, it seems they want to know your alive out there or they may want to see financials or something else, sound like a trap

[freedomwon]

Payment reduction notice? Yea right! This just gets my blood boiling. Just another tactic to prey upon the distressed homeowner. BofA is really working the system from both sides. One the one hand, as a loan servicer, they continue to add on interest, late fees, etc etc. In the end the $ will be recovered when they finally foreclose and they know this. Then on the other hand, they give the homeowner false hope a loan workout is in process so homeowners will drain their checking, savings, 401k’s and any other assets they have to try to make good on their loan obligation. BofA will continue to line their pockets any way they can.

[luvmyhorse]

aint this the truth!

Payment reduction notice? Yea right! This just gets my blood boiling. Just another tactic to prey upon the distressed homeowner. BofA is really working the system from both sides. One the one hand, as a loan servicer, they continue to add on interest, late fees, etc etc. In the end the $ will be recovered when they finally foreclose and they know this. Then on the other hand, they give the homeowner false hope a loan workout is in process so homeowners will drain their checking, savings, 401k’s and any other assets they have to try to make good on their loan obligation. BofA will continue to line their pockets any way they can.

[Strategic_Default]

Update...

I fully believed this was from BofA, but I took a look at the notice again, and discovered in very tiny writing at the bottom "We are not an affiliate of, nor endorsed by, nor associated with Bank of America or any government agency."

There is no indication anywhere as to what company actually sent this, but apparently it isn't BofA. Not sure how they got my information since I'm only 30 days past due. I guess it's just the first of many scams I should expect to see in my mail box. And I am sure several of them will actually come from BofA.

I guess I can save my anger for when it is actually them contacting me. Sorry for the false alarm!

[freedomwon]

No worries Strategic, it's happened to most of us here. The latest scam I got recently looks like it's a notice from HUD but then in the tiny print (which requires a magnifying glass) it specifically says: not connected or endorsed by HUD.

So the lesson learned is always have your magnifying glass handy so you don't get fooled!

[misscantbewrong]

How funny, Strategic Default! We missed our first payment November 1 and have gotten the exact same letters. I was really surprised that they were willing to waive the late fee. The softer side of Bank of America I guess. We still have talked to anybody even though they have called several times. I answered once and all I got was, "Please hold. Please hold. Please hold...."

[Strategic_Default]

The softer side of Bank of America I guess.

Right :-)

Lucky for us we haven't gotten any phone calls yet. I am not looking forward to it when those start.