Old 05-04-2009, 12:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

I was late on my mortgage and the lender called me. I told them that I didn't want to keep the house and they tried to talk me to short sale. Here is my situation:

1. House is in Arizona
2. It is a single family residence located on a lot much less than 2.5 acres.
3. Only first loan, NO second loan
4. Never refinanced
5. All loan is purchase money for the house
6. It is my principle residence where I have been living over for 2 years since I bought it.

My major concern is the tax consequences. For foreclosure, becasue my loan is a non-recourse loan (I think so, a lawyer also mentioned that to me as well), I GUESS there should not be any 1099-C (1099-A maybe). For short sale, I am not sure if the deficiency will incur any tax consequences.

Please help. Thanks in advance!


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Old 05-04-2009, 12:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

byeAZ,
might want to go over to the Deed in Lieu-Walking Away thread. I am not sure this answer but many over there been talking about this issue. good luck.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

Hi ByeAZ!

For me, I didn't see any benefit to short selling. My forclosure was done last week. Short sale? What's in it for you? Nothing as far as i can tell. Little FICO maybe, but what's the advantage once you are below a certain level. FICO will grow back anyway. My advice, if you decide to walk, don't spend one dime on the house, don't live on credit cards, and get out while you still can. Take advantage of the tax debt relief while its still available. You are in Arizona. Get, while the getting is good.

My mistake was making two mortgage payments too many, burning all my savings to pay the mortgages, and living on credit cards last year. Big mistake, because I need that money now.

Follow advice of a good attorney.

BTY-I like your user name. I will be trying to determine where to go from here. I'm a 2nd generation AZ native. It's bad here. No jobs. I'm getting out, if I can find a place to go.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

My understanding is that 1099 is issued regardless of whether it is foreclosure or short sale. But if it is owner occupied property you're protected because of tax debt relief act... you might want to double check with your accountant.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

Thank you cactus and candy. Catus, I really enjoy reading your story, from which I not ony get a lot of usefull information but also the courage and spirit. What a NICE story!
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

ByeAZ,
I've been wondering the same thing myself. Mine loans are recourse (I'm in FL), but I wonder if attempting to short sell is worth all the trouble.



By RUTH SIMON
Financially troubled borrowers may think that foreclosure or a short sale of their home means their mortgage woes are over.

Not necessarily.

Some homeowners are finding that when they sell their homes for less than the outstanding mortgages -- a so-called short sale -- their mortgage companies are going after them for some or all of the difference. Mortgage companies are also sometimes taking legal action to recover unpaid amounts after a foreclosure is completed.

In a growing number of cases, holders of mortgages or home-equity loans are requiring borrowers in short sales to sign a promissory note, which is a written promise to pay back a loan or debt. Real-estate agents and attorneys say they have seen an increase in requests for promissory notes as mortgage companies look to short sales as an alternative to foreclosure.

In many states, lenders have always had the right to pursue former homeowners for unpaid mortgage debt. Yet until recently, most borrowers who ran into trouble were able to refinance or sell their homes and pay off their loans. Now, falling home prices are widening the gap between home values and mortgage balances, and the number of homeowners who can't make their mortgage payments is rising as the economy has weakened. More than 3.8 million homes will be lost in 2009 and 2010 because borrowers can't make their mortgage payments, according to forecasts from Moody's.
Some borrowers are surprised to find themselves on the hook. Jodie Byrd sold her home in the Los Angeles area in a short sale last summer after her husband lost his job and the couple realized they wouldn't be able to make their mortgage payments. The sale price covered the $685,000 mortgage, but their lender, Washington Mutual Co., then began pursuing them for the $21,600 balance on their second mortgage.

Ms. Byrd says a clause in their contract gave Washington Mutual the right to pursue the debt, but adds that her real-estate agent said that wasn't likely to happen. The couple eventually settled the claim for $4,000.

A spokesman for J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., which acquired Washington Mutual last year, says it's the company's policy not to comment on individual cases. Speaking generally, he says, "a short sale may resolve the first mortgage, but the second mortgage ... would be a separate negotiation with the lender or servicer."

Some experts say that mortgage companies may pursue leftover debt, or "deficiencies," in greater numbers as the housing market settles. Lenders are "doing everything possible to work with their borrowers and trying to bring stability back to the lending and real-estate market," says Marc Ben-Ezra, an attorney in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., who represents mortgage companies in foreclosures. "However, the ability to get a deficiency judgment is a valuable right that I think lenders will pursue aggressively in the future as the market stabilizes."

One-Year Moratorium
HSBC Finance, part of the North America unit of HSBC Holdings PLC, has implemented a one-year moratorium on the collection of deficiency balances for short sales and foreclosures that occur after April 1, "given the current economic environment," a company spokeswoman says.

Other mortgage servicers say their actions are often dictated by their contracts with investors or mortgage insurers. Bank of America Corp., for example, will "attempt to seek a promissory note whenever it is feasible" in a short sale "in the interest of protecting investors and shareholders from the losses," a spokeswoman says. In the case of a foreclosure, the investor or insurer "is generally the one who pursues the deficiency, but we do ourselves on some-bank-owned assets," she says.

Not every troubled borrower is hit with such a claim. Often, mortgage companies don't go after borrowers for unpaid amounts either because state laws prohibit or limit such actions or the cost outweighs the potential return. Borrowers subject to a deficiency may also elect to file for bankruptcy in an effort to have the debt discharged.

How a borrower is treated can depend on mortgage company policy, the size of the unpaid debt, whether the borrower has a job or other assets, or whether the home was bought as an investment. "If there isn't a financial hardship ... that's where the investor or mortgage insurer will go after the homeowner for more," says David Knight, a senior vice president at Wells Fargo & Co.'s home-mortgage unit.

A PMI Group Inc. spokesman says the mortgage insurer "primarily target[s] borrowers who are not experiencing hardship -- but those who simply elected to walk away from the property due to its decline in value."

Promissory Notes
Still, the number of short-sale agreements that are made with strings attached is increasing. In the past month and a half, "every short sale I have has had a promissory note or gives the lender the right to collect a deficiency," says Pamela Simmons, an attorney in Soquel, Calif., who represents financially troubled homeowners. Often, the terms are buried in the sale contract, she says.

Regina Rivard, a real-estate consultant in Apollo Beach, Fla., has completed 22 short sales in the past six months. In half of them, the holder of the first or second mortgage required that the borrower sign a promissory note or retained the right to pursue the deficiency. The amounts borrowers were obliged to pay ranged from a few thousand dollars to as much as $100,000, she says.

Some borrowers are balking. Mack Ransom, a mortgage broker in Ashland, Ore., recently brought Countrywide Financial Corp. a short-sale offer for $279,000 -- well below the roughly $415,000 he owes on his two mortgages. Countrywide countered that it would accept a $310,000 bid, provided Mr. Ransom signed a $48,000 promissory note, he says. Mr. Ransom rejected that offer and is pursuing a different short sale.

"I would take the foreclosure and the credit hit over that," he says. A spokeswoman for Bank of America, which acquired Countrywide last year, declined to comment on a specific case, but said: "The company will ask the borrower to sign a promissory note during the short-sale process if dictated by investor guidelines."

Going to Court
Other borrowers who have already gone through foreclosure are being taken to court by mortgage companies for unpaid debt, though such actions are still relatively uncommon. In Lee County, Fla., deficiency actions have increased in the past six months, with most filed by holders of second mortgages, says Charlie Green, clerk of Lee County Circuit Court. "The sale of the property was not enough to cover the total amount that was owed on the note or notes," says Mr. Green, who recently began tracking such filings in response to the increase.

Dunstant King, a cab driver in Boston, refinanced his mortgage in 2007, thinking it would save him money. Instead, his payments increased as the economy slowed. In January, Mr. King, who had a $290,400 mortgage and a $72,600 home-equity loan, lost his home to foreclosure. In February, a lawsuit seeking $92,000 was filed in Suffolk County, Mass., Superior Court on behalf of the loan pool that holds the second mortgage, according to court records.

"I don't have the money to pay them," says Mr. King. "Business is really bad." His attorney, David Dineen of Greater Boston Legal Services, says, "We believe Mr. King has legal defenses" to avoid that debt.

A spokesman for Deutsche Bank AG, the trustee for the loan pool, says that the decision to file the lawsuit was made by the mortgage-servicing company, Franklin Credit Management Corp. Franklin executives did not respond to requests for comment.

Blake Brewer, an attorney in Independence, Ohio, is currently representing a borrower who completed a short sale with the approval of his lender, National City Corp. The following year, Mr. Brewer's client was sued for the $65,000 loan balance, plus accrued interest, on his home-equity line of credit. The borrower "fully believed National City understood they weren't going to get paid," says Mr. Brewer.

A spokesman for PNC Corp., which acquired National City late last year, said the company's policy is not to comment on pending litigation.


















Good luck to you!
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

ByeAZ, I may be late for the first time this month. I too was wondering whether to try for short-sale or foreclosure. The main benefit I heard of doing the short is that Fannie/Freddie will do a loan within 2 years where a foreclosure is 5 years.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

Did some research and it looks like the Mortgage Forgiveness Act only protects the COD for foreclosure. It didn't mention the short sale.
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Old 05-06-2009, 05:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

We checked with our CPA about this last month, and he told us the Mortgage Debt Forgiveness Act applies to debt forgiven to both short sales and foreclosures.

The key seems to be getting the mortgage company to agree to the short sale without adding the right to collect the deficiency into the terms of the sale contrat. There are plenty of examples of the banks trying to slide that into the sales contracts in the Wall Street Journal article I posted above.

I think a short sale is better for the bank and maybe better for the homeowner. But, if we do get a short sale offer accepted I will be sure to have our attorney read through the contract to make sure we're off the hook for the debt.
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

If you live in a no recourse state, I can't see any real benefit of doing a short sale. I guess the only thing is that you might be able to get another mortgage sooner and it might make you feel better to try rather than just walk. Depends on your situation and how mad you are. If I lived in a no recourse state, my keys would be in the mail in no time!

If you live in a recourse state and can get the lender/lenders to agree to payment in full without pursuit of deficiency and release you from the property lien and all personal debts then I think it's totally worth a try. If they won't agree to that, then I won't sign anything, they can just loose more money with another empty foreclosure on their hands.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

HELP!
I am currently at a crossroad and not sure to either sign the paper for short sale or let the house forecloses in AZ due to the issue with BOA's language on short sale paper. It says that I'm responsible for the remaining balance which is around $100,000 and they will not change the language on the paper. The person I talked to in their recovery department said they typically accept 40% of the deficiency as settlement @ 0% financing . But they are not putting that in writing or negotiate before closing (which is after I sign the short sale paper to accept responsibility for the deficiency). This is my HELOC and from what I read, there is 50-50 chance it could still be considered purchase money because I refinanced and took some cash out. SO my problem is should I accept the short sale and try to make install payments on the balance for the next 20 years (about $40K) or let the house goes to foreclosure and gamble with a possibility of lawsuit in the future (with the full balance $100K)? I went to see a few real estate lawyers and none of them can say for sure which way the court will decide in the future whether my loan will be considered recourse of non-recourse..

Please talk some sense into me. I just don't deal with stress very well and thinking about the possibility of getting a lawsuit in the future make me sick in my stomach. At the same time, paying for something I don't own for the next 20 years is also really stressful, especially after divorce and reduced income. But which one is the least of two evils?

Thank you!!
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

Your situation explains why there might be some benefit in hiring a one armed attorney. At least that way you won't get the added response, ..., and on the other hand ....

Have you talked to a bankruptcy attorney? I'd get their input, not so much because you will proceed down that path. More because if it is a viable path, then you can use the threat of bankruptcy to get them to come to the table and suggest a proposal that is more doable.

Daniel
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

Yes, I did meet with a bankruptcy attorney last week and she advised me that if I can settle with BOA before closing then I should (she does not handle short sale negotiations). Due to the fact that my income is above the median level of $43K, I won't be qualified for chapter 7. However, I may be able to file chapter 13 to repay the debts in five years.

BOA is not willing to reduce the 40% settlement or even putting that in writing. They pretty much said take it or leave it and didn't seem to really care if the house goes to foreclosures. I have contacted them over 20 times in the last two weeks. Do you think if an attorney contacts them, they would be more willing to negotiate? Honestly, I have no idea how to find a good short sale attorney in my area to handle this for me....I have consulted with at least 5-6 real estate attorneys and bankruptcy attorneys in AZ. None of them seemed to be confident about how to proceed with my situation.

Thank you for your response.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

If you find a "confident" attorney relative to your situation, then I wouldn't hire them. There really isn't a firm answer relative to applying your facts to the law. This is simply one of those situations where a court decision could go either way. That is probably the best reason for settling it. The risks are just too high either way. Best often times to sort of take a spin at the wheel, meaning that you place them in the position of choosing either to pursue you for a deficiency. It is hard to answer whether or not they do but be sure that they understand about the issue relative to "non-recourse characterization of at least part of the debt."

If they proceed forward, as you get closer to trial, there will become a stronger sense of the uncertainty on both your side and on the lender's side. This uncertainty often leads to settlement. For the lender is at risk that your argument might succeed, and they would rather have this uncertainty continue than face a bad decision that will only result in their losing your case and similar cases.

That is my $0.02 on the matter.

Take care,

Daniel
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

You might want to file for BK and see what they do. You can always withdraw it. It certainly puts you in a better negotiating position. If it was me, I would tell them to eat crow. That tactic doesnt always work but if they know they have you over a barrel, they will take advantage of your desperation.

It seems no attorney will commit to a win. Have you called a few mortgage brokers to see if they have any referrals for short sale specialists?
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Short sale or Foreclosure, NEED ADVICE

I will ask my realtor for referrals on short sale specialists.

So the bottom line is that I should not be signing the paper for short sale (unless BOA agrees to better terms than the 40% settlement) because I may have a better settlement or a chance to win in court if I ride out the process. Is that correct?

Thank you for your words. Your $0.02s do mean alot to me. I just feel so lost most of the time with all these issues.
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