Old 04-28-2009, 10:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Looking for guidance - where to begin - Upside down in Corona, CA

I'm looking for some advice on where to begin.

Bought home 2.5 years ago for $520K. Home is now worth $270K at best. 1st and 2nd were used strictly for purchase of the home. Countrywide is the lender. Property values continue to decline in our area. We have never made a late payment, but are coming up to the 30 day mark in the next few days. We have not experienced a serious financial hardship, but I can not see the reasoning to continue throwing every penny we make into it. We are not able to put any money into savings and at this point we are so upside down in our loan it could take 10+ years before we begin to touch the principal.

We have been considering a short sale, but I'm confused if we could get approved. As previously stated we are coming up on the 30 day late mark and are not sure if we should continue making our payments.

The home was purchased between two siblings. My husband (the brother) and I have been living in the home and the sister has been renting an apartment closer to her office. Long story short sister needs relief in her monthly financial commitments. My husband and I can not afford or get approved for the home on our own, so our other consideration is to try to get the loan modified, so that we can rent the house out. I know any sort of modification is still going to leave us with a hefty portion of mortgage to cover outside of the rent. With the upside down loan this does not seem to be a smart decision.

Can anyone please give me any insight, guidance, advice anything on where to start. We all feel completely overwhelmed and uneducated on the situation.

Please help.

Thank you.


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Old 04-28-2009, 01:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Looking for guidance - where to begin - Upside down in Corona, CA

Hi sarajoy,

Welcome to the hotel california, just kidding. You're not the alone in this, some have it worse. You'll get faster service if you list your key points:
(State - CA no doubt / current value / purchase price / lender(s) / loan terms & amount / re-fi? cash out? / primary residence since purchase...)

BTW, for me it helped when I assigned a price tag on subjective things, e.g. ruined credit. I decided 3 years of our potential savings from work is the worth of ruined FICO score, which can be repaired in 5 years. It helps to make decisions later. Stuff like that.

-kent
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Talking Re: Looking for guidance - where to begin - Upside down in Corona, CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarajoy View Post
We have not experienced a serious financial hardship, but I can not see the reasoning to continue throwing every penny we make into it. We are not able to put any money into savings and at this point we are so upside down in our loan it could take 10+ years before we begin to touch the principal.
You should read through some of the other threads to determine if your lender can sue you for non-deficiency. If the house resides on 2.5 acres or less, is your primary residence and the loan was used to purchase the home then I believe you are safe from a deficiency judgment. The professor will probably chime in and clarify those points.

I was in your shoes for quite some time but finally took the plunge last month. I owed $160k on a house worth $70k. Chase terminated my HELOC during major renovations leaving me with no kitchen, a partial living room, missing plumbing/electrical and no flooring. I did not have a 'hardship' (plenty of income) but my primary residence was worth so little that it would take a dozen years to recover (if it ever recovers). If I invested another $15k for a kitchen then I would owe close to $180,000. I contacted my first and second, made it clear that we needed to negotiate a principal reduction or 2% interest loan but neither would come to the negotiation table. In fact Chase threatened to raise my interest rates. I stopped making payments this month.

If you are planning to try for a loan modification then I can only tell you what I went through with Citi and Chase. Citi (primary - nonrecourse) told me they would not even discuss a loan modification unless I was more than 3 months behind. They also said I make too much money to qualify for their loan modification program. When I explained that the house was worth only 50% of the loan balance and did not have some basic necessities (like a kitchen and flooring) they said it was my problem and not theirs. If I failed to make my payments they they would foreclose.

Chase (2nd - recourse loan) told me they would not negotiate a settlement until after Citi foreclosed and auctioned off the property. Once we have both lost everything in their scortched-earth policy.. then we can talk about a settlement.

You should read the 'Buy & Bail' thread. I bought a foreclosure a couple of months ago. I made this decision while my credit was still worth something and ended up with a $75000 house that was worth $220,000 in 2006. My plan was to rent out the house and use the income as a hedge against a job loss. At the time I just could not believe that the bank would prefer to foreclose rather than negotiate an equitable settlement. If the banks won't settle then I will have to move into the rental. I won't have much of a choice.

I will say that I feel a huge weight being lifted off my shoulders. I may not owe $520,000 but I can only imagine the stress that kind of mortgage payment creates. My suggestion is to sit down with your wife / kids, figure out how much you have, figure out how much you can save if you stop making payments, start looking at the local housing/rental market to decide what is right for you, lean on friends/family that can help, talk to an attorney, find out what the legal ramnifications are for your decision then make a decision.

Don't feel strained to make your payments right away. Most banks will not report a late payment until 29-31 days after your payment is due. This means if your next payment is due on 5/1 then you have until 5/30 to decide. Take the time to make the right decision. Don't let them bully, con or threaten you into making a payment. Thankfully I had a good attorney who clarified this point for me.

If you need to vent or have any other questions then there are plenty of people who frequent these forums who are in your shoes. We'll give you all the help we can..

Good luck!
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Question Re: Looking for guidance - where to begin - Upside down in Corona, CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarajoy View Post
We have been considering a short sale, but I'm confused if we could get approved. As previously stated we are coming up on the 30 day late mark and are not sure if we should continue making our payments.
I also contemplated a short-sale but decided against it. If there is no chance of a deficiency then the nominal differenice in FICO damage between a foreclosure, DIL and short sale was not worth the hassle. I have read articles about people who have been trying to short-sale their houses for over a year while the banks drag them (and their realtors) through the mud and eventually foreclose anyway. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule but if the bank is going to take several months to foreclose then why make selling their house for them your problem? I could see if you walked away with no FICO damage but from what I understand the point drop is still in the hundreds.

Hopefully if I am wrong then someone can correct me.
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Old 04-29-2009, 12:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Looking for guidance - where to begin - Upside down in Corona, CA

I read in a recent report that Short Sale vs. Foreclosure has very little difference regarding FICO scores but the main difference being when you can jump back into the housing market. Short Sale, 2 years and Foreclosure 5 years.

I'm going to attempt to Short Sale only to extend my "rent free" status. I'll be 2 months late in the next couple days and will request the consideration days prior to the 3rd month. Hopefully it will buy me a couple extra months to say a few more chips.

And really, i dont see any problem with Short Sale as long as you have stopped paying. There is no way in H** i would continue to pay my mortgage and attempt to Short Sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogatemy View Post
I also contemplated a short-sale but decided against it. If there is no chance of a deficiency then the nominal differenice in FICO damage between a foreclosure, DIL and short sale was not worth the hassle. I have read articles about people who have been trying to short-sale their houses for over a year while the banks drag them (and their realtors) through the mud and eventually foreclose anyway. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule but if the bank is going to take several months to foreclose then why make selling their house for them your problem? I could see if you walked away with no FICO damage but from what I understand the point drop is still in the hundreds.

Hopefully if I am wrong then someone can correct me.
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Old 04-29-2009, 12:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Looking for guidance - where to begin - Upside down in Corona, CA

"You should read through some of the other threads to determine if your lender can sue you for non-deficiency. If the house resides on 2.5 acres or less, is your primary residence and the loan was used to purchase the home then I believe you are safe from a deficiency judgment. The professor will probably chime in and clarify those points."

Just have to correct this one point, in CA less then 2.5 acre rule doesn't apply.
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Looking for guidance - where to begin - Upside down in Corona, CA

Corona looks like it has been hit hard... so many places here in California have been. Fresno, Modesto areas... Palm Springs too.

An additional headache is that many of these foreclosed homes now are being picked up by investors of all sorts, who get them at fire sale prices, put renters in (anyone with a pulse) and the neighborhoods continue their value descent into darkness.

I feel for you sarajoy.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Looking for guidance - where to begin - Upside down in Corona, CA

I read that in a short-sale the lender could come after you for deficiency or sell it to collectors to come for you later on; even in non-recourse states like AZ. I think you need to have a real estate attorney read the short-sale agreement to make sure the bank doesn't try to screw you over. Hopefully the Professor can confirm or correct. I would like the short-sale to be able to re-buy sooner than 5 years but not sure if it is worth the headaches I hear about.
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