Another Arizona Walk-Away

[snapple candy]

As usual I get a good laugh on this thread.

Dog, when is the sale supposed to be happening? The weather has been nice here in central oregon but winter is getting ready to bear down upon us. The leaves and the colors are in full change and leaves are dropping. I raked the leaves and pruned the bushes thinking all the time, will I even be here in the spring? Its hard to invest any emotional energy in a place when it is being ripped out from beneath you but I needed the exercise and the warm sun on my face. Gardening is therapy for me I suppose and I am not looking forward to the snow flying by any means.

I can believe Citi is still calling you Dog! I miss being able to lurk around the threads much. I am buried in school work...I am hoping its a means to an end but somehow gotta hang on till summer at this pace. Have fun doing the carpentry work at the old house!

[dogatemy]

Originally Posted by snapple candy

Dog, when is the sale supposed to be happening? The weather has been nice here in central oregon but winter is getting ready to bear down upon us. The leaves and the colors are in full change and leaves are dropping.

The sale is scheduled for November 6th. I received the letter today acknowledging my decision to cancel the homeowners insurance. They indicated failure to re-enstate the policy means they will be paying $2400/year for insurance on the property. My thought is if they delay foreclosure then they are at least doing so on their own dime. I don't have an HOA so i'm lucky in that respect.

The weather here in Phoenix is finally beautiful and it will be this way until June when it gets hot again. The temperature is going to dip into the mid-60s later this week then steadily climb back into the 70s again.

I love this time of year!! The Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas season is my favorite time of the year!

Keep chugging along. Education is the only way to succeed in America!

[dogatemy]

11/5/2009

Update:

Trustee Sale Eve
The trustee sale of my house is scheduled for tomorrow. A couple of friends and I are getting together to celebrate over breakfast! If Citi could attend then I would sing a little tune for their CEO:

So Long! Farewell! I leave and heave a sigh and say good bye!
I'm glad... to go.. I cannot tell a lie!
goodbyyyyyyeeeee!

hehehehehe..

He probably wouldn't find it funny.

Cleaned out..
I visited the old house and removed everything of value. I would joke and say I took the kitchen sink.. but.. well.. I did.. during the renovations

- The ceiling fans were paid for out of my own pocket so I took those. I left "replacements" in the livingroom in case someone wants them.
- I put all the remaining trash into a dozen Contractor Sized bags. Of course I left those in the kitchen. What? Do I look like the Public Sanitation Service to you?
- Removed the padlocks I had on the electrical boxes to prevent someone from tampering with them.
- Removed the coax TV cable because.. well.. that stuff is expensive!
- Took the remaining bookcase out of the shed along with some odds and ends. (An enormous bees nest has taken over the shed. You can feel the warmth and buzzing of their nest radiating through the floors. It is kinda cool! I love nature..)
- I decided not too install a new AC unit. Its winter! They don't need AC.. :-)

I wish them the best of luck trying to sell that place. They really should have found a way of cutting me a deal.

Citi Calls
It has been weeks, if not months, since I heard from Citi. They usually just send the monthly statement saying, "you owe us money - please.. pleeeeaaasssee.. send us money!" A few days ago I finally got a letter that said, "your escrow account is overdrawn - please send us MORE money." Tonight I received a call from a "Private" number. It was a gentleman from Citi's Homeowner Assistance Program. He wanted to know if there was anything he could do to help? "Its not too late!" he tells me.

I told him..

- I am unemployed which makes a loan mod difficult.
- I have no income (which is a lie.. but why offer false hope??)
- The house is missing important things like walls and plumbing
- It would be best for Citi to foreclose as soon as possible.

He said the Trustee Sale was scheduled for tomorrow and there is no indication Citi will delay the sale.

YES!!!! *happy dance*

Money and Weddings
I just thought I put a little blurb in here about how i'm holding up.

My major concern in the past few weeks was something going wrong with the car. Ironically my mechanic called a few days ago and asked if I could do some work on their daughter's computer in exchange for mechanical work on the car. I did 4 hours of work and they gave me a $300 credit at their shop. My mechanic is awesome.

I am collecting unemployment at the rate of $265 per week. Just in case Chase gets creative I am keeping that money under the mattress. When you are living alone and unemployed there are very few expenses so $265/week (minus c-a-t food) becomes liveable. There is still little business in the telecommunications field so everything I am doing now tends to be warranty work for existing clients (which is non-paid work unfortunately).

The girlfriend surprised me with this message tonight on Gtalk:

how would you feel about pie instead of cake for the wedding?
like...pumpkin pie

This was followed with a declaration that our wedding date is officially November 5th, 2010 at around 8pm. When I inquired about my say in the conversation.

This isn't about YOU! It's not ALWAYS about you!

.. she says.

My girlfriend is awesome. Hopefully that concludes my involvement in the wedding preparations.

Happy
Despite everything that has happened.. I am happy. I get up every morning, have my coffee, pet the cats, apply for a job or two (assuming there are any even available to apply for), call my girlfriend and have some breakfast. I am reading a 1350 page book on Java and going through Stanford's Intro to Programming Methodology:

Stanford School of Engineering - Stanford Engineering Everywhere

My next book will be on Python so I can learn to write KDE widgets. How cool is that?!? Okay.. not so cool.. for you. Cool for me because i'm a nerd.

I am contemplating a trip out to see friends on the east coast for a few weeks. They want me to come out and attend some of their lan parties so I may bite the bullet, buy a new gaming laptop and head east for a bit. Of course someone needs to feed these cats while i'm gone.

If anyone is located in the Phoenix metro area and wants to have lunch then let me know. I'm always looking for an excuse for cheesecake..

[AZOwner]

dog - I'm good for lunch. email me at the addy below.

glad your nightmare is almost over!

[jet-a]

Originally Posted by dogatemy

11/5/2009

Update:

Trustee Sale Eve
The trustee sale of my house is scheduled for tomorrow. A couple of friends and I are getting together to celebrate over breakfast! If Citi could attend then I would sing a little tune for their CEO:

So Long! Farewell! I leave and heave a sigh and say good bye!
I'm glad... to go.. I cannot tell a lie!
goodbyyyyyyeeeee!

hehehehehe..

He probably wouldn't find it funny.

Cleaned out..
I visited the old house and removed everything of value. I would joke and say I took the kitchen sink.. but.. well.. I did.. during the renovations

- The ceiling fans were paid for out of my own pocket so I took those. I left "replacements" in the livingroom in case someone wants them.
- I put all the remaining trash into a dozen Contractor Sized bags. Of course I left those in the kitchen. What? Do I look like the Public Sanitation Service to you?
- Removed the padlocks I had on the electrical boxes to prevent someone from tampering with them.
- Removed the coax TV cable because.. well.. that stuff is expensive!
- Took the remaining bookcase out of the shed along with some odds and ends. (An enormous bees nest has taken over the shed. You can feel the warmth and buzzing of their nest radiating through the floors. It is kinda cool! I love nature..)
- I decided not too install a new AC unit. Its winter! They don't need AC.. :-)

I wish them the best of luck trying to sell that place. They really should have found a way of cutting me a deal.

Citi Calls
It has been weeks, if not months, since I heard from Citi. They usually just send the monthly statement saying, "you owe us money - please.. pleeeeaaasssee.. send us money!" A few days ago I finally got a letter that said, "your escrow account is overdrawn - please send us MORE money." Tonight I received a call from a "Private" number. It was a gentleman from Citi's Homeowner Assistance Program. He wanted to know if there was anything he could do to help? "Its not too late!" he tells me.

I told him..

- I am unemployed which makes a loan mod difficult.
- I have no income (which is a lie.. but why offer false hope??)
- The house is missing important things like walls and plumbing
- It would be best for Citi to foreclose as soon as possible.

He said the Trustee Sale was scheduled for tomorrow and there is no indication Citi will delay the sale.

YES!!!! *happy dance*

Money and Weddings
I just thought I put a little blurb in here about how i'm holding up.

My major concern in the past few weeks was something going wrong with the car. Ironically my mechanic called a few days ago and asked if I could do some work on their daughter's computer in exchange for mechanical work on the car. I did 4 hours of work and they gave me a $300 credit at their shop. My mechanic is awesome.

I am collecting unemployment at the rate of $265 per week. Just in case Chase gets creative I am keeping that money under the mattress. When you are living alone and unemployed there are very few expenses so $265/week (minus c-a-t food) becomes liveable. There is still little business in the telecommunications field so everything I am doing now tends to be warranty work for existing clients (which is non-paid work unfortunately).

The girlfriend surprised me with this message tonight on Gtalk:

how would you feel about pie instead of cake for the wedding?
like...pumpkin pie

This was followed with a declaration that our wedding date is officially November 5th, 2010 at around 8pm. When I inquired about my say in the conversation.

This isn't about YOU! It's not ALWAYS about you!

.. she says.

My girlfriend is awesome. Hopefully that concludes my involvement in the wedding preparations.

Happy
Despite everything that has happened.. I am happy. I get up every morning, have my coffee, pet the cats, apply for a job or two (assuming there are any even available to apply for), call my girlfriend and have some breakfast. I am reading a 1350 page book on Java and going through Stanford's Intro to Programming Methodology:

Stanford School of Engineering - Stanford Engineering Everywhere

My next book will be on Python so I can learn to write KDE widgets. How cool is that?!? Okay.. not so cool.. for you. Cool for me because i'm a nerd.

I am contemplating a trip out to see friends on the east coast for a few weeks. They want me to come out and attend some of their lan parties so I may bite the bullet, buy a new gaming laptop and head east for a bit. Of course someone needs to feed these cats while i'm gone.

If anyone is located in the Phoenix metro area and wants to have lunch then let me know. I'm always looking for an excuse for cheesecake..

These stories are so funny & great! You should like you are handling things well. I feel the same way when I was unemployed, my expenses went way down and I lived on a lot less. It was indeed a lesson learned! Good luck with everything!

What part of Phx are you in? I'm in N. Phx

[KFish]

doatemy...your post made me laugh so hard! Love your attitude and humor of it all. I always look forward to reading your posts. I am glad this is almost behind you. I am a little jealous though since I am only starting my journey..November is the first month we stopped payments on our 3 Arizona properties.

Good luck with everything and I will keep my fingers crossed the sale goes through!

[dogatemy]

Originally Posted by AZOwner

dog - I'm good for lunch. email me at the addy below.

glad your nightmare is almost over!

I am probably dense but I don't see your email at the bottom of the post. My email is dogatemycomputer@gmail.com if you wanna drop me a line there. ttys!

[dogatemy]

Originally Posted by jet-a

What part of Phx are you in? I'm in N. Phx

Yeah! I think the reason I am spending so much less is because I can simply say, "i'm unemployed now" which kinda implies you're broke when people ask. Even my girlfriend has began to adjust. She will suggest McDonalds or Arbys instead of Macaroni Grill or Mortons Steakhouse. We also eat at home alot more, take public transportation, think twice before vacationing and look for discounts.

[dogatemy]

Originally Posted by KFish

doatemy...your post made me laugh so hard! Love your attitude and humor of it all. I always look forward to reading your posts. I am glad this is almost behind you. I am a little jealous though since I am only starting my journey..November is the first month we stopped payments on our 3 Arizona properties.

Humor is the best medicine. As you begin your journey through the Valley of Debt; fear not as the homeowner shall pass!

I don't remember reading about your specific circumstances. Do you have something for the banks to garnish like income or bank accounts? Hire dan attorney? Do they have any leverage over you?

[dogatemy]

11/9/2009

Update:

Foreclosure Complete!
I called CitiMortgage this morning. The attorney confirmed the Trustee Sale was completed on 11/6/2009 and the highest bid was $106k. The bank took back the house and it is no longer my responsibility. The rep implied the cancellation of my homeowners policy had some involvement in their decision to go through with the Trustee Sale. I don't know if it was because they realized I abandoned the house or if it was because of the additional expense to cover their own policy? She said they could not provide any additional details regarding the foreclosure. I thanked her for the time.

seven million, seven hundred and twenty thousand, four hundred seventy nine seconds to go
Arizona requires they file a deficiency lawsuit within 90 days. This means I should be served before 2/16/2009. My attorney and a friend who works in real estate both said there was "no way" the banks are going to bother filing a deficiency suit. My attorney is not as optimistic. He says there is "strength in numbers" but believes there is still a chance Citi will file a lawsuit at the last minute. He said I should just cross my fingers and wait.

I drove by the house this morning (3 days after the trustee sale) and nobody has been to the house yet. The old locks are still on the door and my neighbours said nobody has been there.

So.. tick.. tick.. tick.. Citi only has 7,720,479 seconds left!

[snapple candy]

Dog,
As we journey thru the valley of debt, what a crack up. Wow so they finally took it back!
I forgot, how much did you owe on it? Congrats on the upcoming wedding and have a good trip back east. I see the unemployment improves your sense of humor.....

[dogatemy]

Originally Posted by snapple candy

Dog,
As we journey thru the valley of debt, what a crack up. Wow so they finally took it back!
I forgot, how much did you owe on it? Congrats on the upcoming wedding and have a good trip back east. I see the unemployment improves your sense of humor.....

I owed $130k on it. The highest bidder was $106k. That leaves $24k deficiency for the 1st. I also owe Chase about $50k between the HELOC and credit cards as well as Citi and Skanks of America.

A friend of mine who owns a real estate business is not happy. He says I have a "moral obligation" to repay the debt. I tried to explain this is a CONTRACTUAL obligation and not a moral one. I took the time to remind him that if I have a moral obligation to repay the debt then he has a moral obligation to make sure he sells houses at a fair price.

That's Communist!!

Yes. That's correct. As a capitalist I have the right to pay as little as possible within the confines of our contractual agreement and that agreement, which most people do not read, gives me certain rights including the Right to Default. Of course the real reason he is angry is because he's loosing his shirt just like every other predatory lender who did well in 2005-2006.

He decided to change the topic of conversation.

Unemployment is helping cure my negative attitude. I have decided I will wait until April/May to travel. It is already in the 30s in some areas of the northeast which is colder than I would like. I might meet some friends down in South America in March which should be warm and sunny.

[KFish]

Dogatemy...

I wouldn't lose any sleep over the chance of a deficiency judgement. Unless the laws get changed drastically and fast, you are safe. AZ is a non-deficiency state! I have been posting updates from my attorney's blog in the "Foreclosure law" forum. The laws they are hoping to change specifically target homes that were not owner occupied.

As for our situation, it is not so simple. We have three rentals we bought in 04. Seemed like a good idea at the time, the landlord stuff. We sold a couple and made some money, so we figured, why not keep going with a good thing. We are upside down in all three of them, although not by too much. The bigger problem is we have a negative cash flow on them which costs us almost $1k per month between the 3. I seriously dont know what we were thinking when we bought them. But I do remember our realtor calling us, "I found another one for you to buy!" telling us how much money we will make, etc. But then again, my husband and I are strong willed people, and could have and SHOULD HAVE said no more!

We are both government employees with good jobs. We have assets too. But the biggest problem we face is pay cuts...they have been cutting our pay and benefits back the last few years...this year, we took a huge hit and now it is simply too tight to keep up. I am simply not willing to keep borrowing money, working overtime, etc to maintain those properties. I seriously think, the longer I am a landlord, the shorter my life will be! Way too much stress!!

As of now, the laws cover us for anti-deficiency. We are hoping they won't change in the next 6 months to a year it will take our properties to foreclose.

As for now, my only regret is not stopping payments sooner. I feel like a HUGE weight is off my back now that we have made the decision. I feel like we will have a decent Christmas this year. I just sent my daughter money for a plane ticket to come home for Christmas. I am not having trouble sleeping, wondering which tenant will call next about some expensive maintenance issue. I feel like I will get my life back!

[AZchick2]

Congrats Dog, now you can move on with your life!

[dogatemy]

Originally Posted by KFish

I wouldn't lose any sleep over the chance of a deficiency judgement.

I feel like I will get my life back!

Don't worry.. no loss of sleep here.. heck.. it is almost noon and I am just waking up!

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. 3 houses is alot of work! I had trouble taking care of 2 when nobody lived in 1 of them. Are you still collecting rent or are you telling the tenants to start looking now that you have ceased making payments? I wish you the best of luck in your journey! You should start a thread and keep posting. It is not only helpful to other investors but therapeutic. Both you of you can share the account and post!

[we're_still_reviewing]

dog,

Glad you're almost free and clear. Tick tock tick tock..... I don't think the bank will be coming after you for the deficiency. Keeping our fingers crossed for you.

Congratulations on your wedding.

[Enough Already]

Congratulations Dog! I hope it's all behind you now. Keep us posted!

[KFish]

We just stopped making payments this month...they arent actually past due utnil the 15th. I figured i have about 5 days or so of peace and quiet...let the harassing phone calls begin! All of my loans are with Bank (Skank) of America. All three 1sts..plus purchase HELOC 2nds on two of them. That aught to give them plenty to call about. I just hope they dont call my work and I definately hope they dont have my cellphone number!

We are going to have our tenants pay rent until we get the notice of default. Only two are occupied. We have very high HOA fees on all three of them...but I am going to continue to pay the HOA so my tenants can use the gym, pool, etc. Then I will tell them they can live rent free from there on out, which they should be pretty happy about.

I am going to start a thread next week, once I am "officially" late. It has been great reading everyone else's...and I think you're right...I could use some of the therapy side of it. My husband is sick of talking about it and doesnt want to hear about it anymore.

[auroraproblem]

If you ask them not to call your employer or cell phone they will have to honor that (more so if they are indeed getting in contact with you). You will find them very receptive to these requests if you at least talk with them 2 times per week. It does not have to be long conversations, would not be rude, just brief about not having money, if you get some, will pay, but until then, nothing has changed. Validate only current contact number and mailing address.

You should have no problems for awhile.

[KFish]

OK Thanks. That is good to know about the phone calls. I know they dont have my current desk number, but I really dont want them calling around looking for me at my old numbers either.

I plan on talking to them when they call. I definately wont be rude..whats the point. The caller is probably only doing it cause its their job. I plan on just telling the sad truth....yep, made the payments for 4 years plus without incident...but now my employer cut my pay...so it's either lose the rentals or give up the house we live in...

Does anyone have any suggestions to speed things up? I know that sounds bad, but really..what is the point of delaying the inevitable? We are getting more pay cuts next year, and short of winning the lottery, cant afford them anymore. I hate to give them too much hope we might be able to catch up...I would rather have them start foreclosure asap and get it over with.

[auroraproblem]

I doubt there is a way to speed it up. I say this because they already have a ton of homes. The news is reporting how 'foreclosures are down', I argue they are down in filings for new ones only. That banks are prolonging it because what is the point. Many they have on the market right now are not selling; we have plenty in our area which are still owned by the bank without buyers.

The only 'fast' way I believe you can dump those rentals, is likely through a chapter 7 discharge and of course anything like that you will want to talk with an attorney about.

[KFish]

We won't qualify for bankruptcy, and have no desire to go that route. We have a couple of other properties as well. We dont have any equity in any of them though. We chose these three to get rid of because they cost us the most. If we get rid of these, we can ride out with the others. But simply cant afford all of them anymore. Sad, but true.

[AZrebound]

I am not sure how to start a new thread on this site so I thought I might just ask my question here. Arizona is a non-deficiency state but if I have PMI and walk away from my underwater mortgage, does the insurance company have the ability to come after me for the deficiency? Thanks

[knownick]

Generally speaking the rights of the PMI company are no more nor less than the holder of the note. If the holder of the note has no right to recourse, then neither will their insurance company.

[dogatemy]

Originally Posted by KFish

Does anyone have any suggestions to speed things up? I know that sounds bad, but really..what is the point of delaying the inevitable? We are getting more pay cuts next year, and short of winning the lottery, cant afford them anymore. I hate to give them too much hope we might be able to catch up...I would rather have them start foreclosure asap and get it over with.

Do not tell them ANYTHING about your finances. Just tell what I told them..

"for personal reasons I would strongly suggest you foreclose as soon as possible."

If you tell them you are having financial problems then they will delay foreclosure as long as possible hoping you decide to start paying again.

For some reason my decision to cancel my homeowners insurance seemed to get their attention. They called 2 days later asking why it was canceled. I simply re-iterated my stance that I canceled it for personal reasons and I would strongly suggest they foreclose as soon as possible.

Of course if you cancel your homeowners insurance and one of the properties are damaged then you could be sued for deficiency so it is a decision you will have to make. You appear to be working so they could technically take 25% of your check assuming they managed to get a judgment.