PNC second: No more settlement offers, now breech of agreement

[amtrak23]

My dad was following strategies for settling second and their mailed offers slowly inched down to 20%. Then their letters stopped arriving about a month ago and now a letter from a local collection law firm has shown up. According to the court docs they officially filed on the 25th.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29127095/welt01.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29127095/welt02.jpg

The house is up for Sheriff's sale on June 15th, and we are currently trying to get it delayed. This will be the second auction, as the first last year had no bidders. The second is for 20k and the house is underwater.

What is the appropriate play here now? He was hoping to get down to a 10% settlement offer, but now unsure of what to so.

[Shifty]

You are further along than I am. I cannot even get anyone there to talk about settlements. Do you know if they are even willing to accept the 20 percent at this point?

[amtrak23]

I have always read that it is best to avoid a collection agency, which is what Weltman is, unless absolutely needed so there has been no other contact at this point.

I'm guessing Weltman just wants to get the easy judgement and go for a wage garnishment, unless they would receive a lump sum payment for whatever amount PNC would allow them to agree upon.

I'm also curious if they can even do a garnishment because he is already getting a large portion of check taken away by alimony.

[Shifty]

I agree. I would not make any contact with the collection agency. Make an effort to contact PNC and see what they say. How long hae you guys gone without payment before the first settlement offer?

[KayLake]

I am so very interested in this topic. Please reply with how long it actually took for PNC to respond after your first missed payment?

[amtrak23]

Sorry, for long delay in getting back to this. He is out of town a lot and was trying to roundup all the paperwork.

He stopped paying both first/second in July of 2009. PNC first started calling shortly after first missed payment. They did not call often, maybe every month/month and half. The first settlement letter didn't arrive until November of 2011. It was a 35% offer ($7K) with a "This offer expires on December 1st" notice.

January 2012: Demand for payment in full, nothing less would be accepted or else.

February 2012: 20% settlement offer ($4k), expiration date month later.

April 2012: Another demand for payment in full or else.

May 2012: 15% settlement offer ($3k), expiration date a month later

End of May 2012: Breech of contract complaint seeking default judgement sent by Weltman.

We are still trying to determine a plan of action. The account has been marked of as a charge off on his credit reports for at least a year, so not sure when it was actually charged off.

The auction that was scheduled for mid June was cancelled per plaintiffs attorney. Not sure if it was because he called OOP at Bank of America and told them how he was getting the run around from their people at REDC in regards to the deed in lieu stuff they keep sending and he keeps responding to (yet they always need something else mailed out). The people in the OOP and his CRM with REDC agreed to cancel the auction, they were juts awaiting confirmation from the Sheriff's office that it was pulled.

The odd part was the day of the auction he received a letter from BOA's attorneys addressed to him and PNC that was a motion to withdraw the sale due to "an independent foreclosure review initiated by the borrower, under the Office of the Comptroller of Currency (OCC) consent order with mortgage servicers settlement and therefore cannot proceed to sale until said review is complete."

He did fill out paperwork back in December when he received the Independent Foreclosure Review paperwork from the OOC, so was it coincidence that they delayed the auction because of that, or was it because he was bugging BOA about his DIL paperwork?

I also find it odd that the attorneys for BOA would send anything to PNC in regards to the auction being cancelled. Why do they do this?

[KayLake]

So PNC was actually willing to settle at 15%??? I'm surprised they were even willing to settle at all!!! I was told on another site that I should forget PNC ever willing to settle. I did a chapter 7 a few years ago and have not paid since. I owe probably over $80,000 (now with interest and late fees and whatever else kind of fees) so if I were to contact them to tell them they have the okay to contact me for settlement purposes maybe I might get them that low??? Maybe there is hope since their last offer came in May.

[amtrak23]

So PNC was actually willing to settle at 15%??? I'm surprised they were even willing to settle at all!!! I was told on another site that I should forget PNC ever willing to settle. I did a chapter 7 a few years ago and have not paid since. I owe probably over $80,000 (now with interest and late fees and whatever else kind of fees) so if I were to contact them to tell them they have the okay to contact me for settlement purposes maybe I might get them that low??? Maybe there is hope since their last offer came in May.

It didn't get discharged in bankruptcy?

I know for a fact that Weltman has a settlement authority of 50% on any PNC file they work, so at the very least they will settle for 50% without blinking an eye. And I'm quite certain that Weltman handles 100% of PNC's files.

[KayLake]

amtrak23,

Yes, it did get discharged but what I would like is to have them release the lien. Do you happen to have a fax or address that I could have to send a letter to them? All I have is an email from last year and that was in their short sale department. I was told they only handle settlements in through their short sale department.

[amtrak23]

The address they have on all of these docs is the same as on this page:
https://www.pncpaymentoptions.com/doc/contactUs

The phone is different: 800-729-4810

[Shifty]

Hey guys, I am still chugging along with PNC as well. In fact I called the loss mitigation department two weeks ago and there is a person assigned to my account. He never called back so I just let him another message today. I am in the exact same position as KayLake in that we have been discharged in a Ch7 and did not reaffirm so we just need the lien released. Exactly who or what is Weltman? And is the Recovery Department different than the Loss Mitigation Department?

[KayLake]

amtrak 23, thank you for sharing your experience with PNC as it is most appreciated by me as well as Shifty I'm sure!
Shifty, where are you located? We need to share out experiences with PNC with one another. So far not much luck with them for me. How much do you owe them at this point? Not understanding why they just don't except our offers.

[Shifty]

KayLake, I am located in Texas. My 2nd is just over $28,000. The most frustrating part for me so far is that I cannot get my personal contact at the loss mitigation department to contact me. My guess is that they are completely overloaded...can't imagine why, maybe if they worked with their customers they would have better luck. LOL Where are you located?

[KayLake]

Shifty,
I'm in MI. The one thing I do know about PNC is that they will ask for all of the financials before deciding on a settlement. I made the huge mistake of do that (before I really became knowledgeable from the settling strategies) and although they were pretty quick in the process after all was submitted I did receive a call from the short sale department and spoke with someone and he gave me a very high offer to settle. I cannot remember exactly what it was but I'm thinking around $40,000. I told him I did not have that amount to give. He asked me what was the very most I could come up with and I kept to my 10%. He asked once again if that was all I could do and I said yes. He told me okay and hung up. Haven't heard a thing from them since April of 2011. Never received any denial in the form of a letter. I was told that they only do settlements through their short sale department. If I am able to get their attention with them believe me they will not get anymore financials from me!

[amtrak23]

Hey guys, I am still chugging along with PNC as well. In fact I called the loss mitigation department two weeks ago and there is a person assigned to my account. He never called back so I just let him another message today. I am in the exact same position as KayLake in that we have been discharged in a Ch7 and did not reaffirm so we just need the lien released. Exactly who or what is Weltman? And is the Recovery Department different than the Loss Mitigation Department?

Weltman is the collection law firm in Cleveland (Weltman, Weinberg & Reis) that is suing my dad for for his 2nd.

What are the property values loan amounts for both of you? I have read some speculation that the banks will keep the liens on the property in case the property value rises in the future and they can then proceed to a foreclosure that would make sense with the first not being underwater anymore.

What is the loss mitigation number you have?

[KayLake]

amtrak23,
Here goes: First Mortgage Balance: $180,000
Second Mortgage Balance: $65,000 at discharge (now maybe close to $80,000 if not more with all the lates and fees) with PNC
Value: That remains a bit of a mystery but I will say certainly no more than $235,000...homes in my area are beginning to sell much faster.

[Shifty]

amtrak23, the loss mitigation number is 1-888-224-4702. Also, when starting all this I contacted my BK attorney and she advised not to disclose any information. As she put it, all of your financials were submitted during the BK.

[KayLake]

I want to begin to make contact with PNC again. This time I want to either email or mail them a letter to tell them they can contact me for a settlement only. I just found out the homes in my area are beginning to pick up. The very ( and I do mean EXACT) exact home sold for $240,000 a few weeks ago. Now with my $180,000 first and my $65,000 or so second I'm getting nervous. I'm thinking my time is now to have them make an offer. What department would I mail it to? Please if anyone can tell me I would really appreciate it. Not sure if I should contact them through email though. Also, at this point can they foreclose now with more equity my home has gained? This all makes me mad how hard to deal with they can be.

[TomEason]

I want to begin to make contact with PNC again. This time I want to either email or mail them a letter to tell them they can contact me for a settlement only. I just found out the homes in my area are beginning to pick up. The very ( and I do mean EXACT) exact home sold for $240,000 a few weeks ago. Now with my $180,000 first and my $65,000 or so second I'm getting nervous. I'm thinking my time is now to have them make an offer. What department would I mail it to? Please if anyone can tell me I would really appreciate it. Not sure if I should contact them through email though. Also, at this point can they foreclose now with more equity my home has gained? This all makes me mad how hard to deal with they can be.

Why not just visit their website for their contact info. That will give you an address to which you can send a letter.

[KayLake]

Tom,
I know I've asked this before but here goes again. When a loan doesn't get paid in over 2 years such as mine will they add all the late fees and interest along with the actual payment and come up with that as a balance when it's time to settle or will it just be the amount at which it was a few years ago? How do banks handle this?

[TomEason]

Kaylake

Thanks for your question. Late fees and interest are routinely added to the loan balance, but it matters not at all, since any agreed settlement amount will be in dollars, as opposed to a percentage of the balance.

In answer to your "How do banks handle this?", who cares how they handle it, as you'll settle at your goal settlement amount.

[Shifty]

KayLake, have you made any progress with PNC? I wish they would sell the loans off to someone else. LOL

[KayLake]

Shifty,
I have yet to send the letter to PNC to give them authorization to contact me. Yes, I'm wishing to do it very soon. I'm on another forum and post there as well and have been to told by someone on there to forget about ever hoping to settle with PNC. I come here and post because I feel that there is more support here for someone in my position. Keep us posted on your experience. I will let post when I finally send the authorization letter.

[amtrak23]

UPDATE:
7/2 My dad answered their complaint with a handwritten letter
7/11 Their Attorney filed a motion for judgement on the pleadings.
7/27 Judgement granted for 20k + interest

Now REDC is working with him again for the DIL. And he is going to see an Attorney about how to get rid of the 2nd so the DIL can commence.

There is still no new auction date set, and the court has them listed through 2/15/13. I'm not why he is cooperating with REDC now and all that will accomplish is getting things moving quicker I believe. Can anybody chime in here and give me some info to convince him to leave them alone for now and wait for an auction date at least? Or any other good plan of action?

[landlord in olympia]

My dad was following strategies for settling second and their mailed offers slowly inched down to 20%. Then their letters stopped arriving about a month ago and now a letter from a local collection law firm has shown up. According to the court docs they officially filed on the 25th.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29127095/welt01.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29127095/welt02.jpg

The house is up for Sheriff's sale on June 15th, and we are currently trying to get it delayed. This will be the second auction, as the first last year had no bidders. The second is for 20k and the house is underwater.

What is the appropriate play here now? He was hoping to get down to a 10% settlement offer, but now unsure of what to so.

This is the exact thing I am scared of.

I have 2 seconds on with PNC Bank on different properties. From talking to different people at PNC, my big one ($100k) has a 3rd party or investor that decides how much they can settle for. My smaller one ($15k) is done through people at PNC.

The DR person at PNC told me that as of the 20th of this month, they will no longer be doing any sort of settling, unless in a short sale. I do not know if this is BS, or if it is true, but she did seem to want to get me a dollar amount much closer to my initial offer.

She said they "present" the offer and my circumstances in a meeting to managers to see if they would be willing to accept.

On the big second, I was able to get the offer down to $25k at one time. On the little one, they were more like 50%. I did have to submit my financials to start working on it, but I wish I hadn't done it, and just followed TomEason's instructions.

What does Tom suggest for suit and garnishment threats?

[KayLake]

landlord,

Is PNC saying they are no longer offering settlements altogether? This is not good news for me if it is indeed true.

[TomEason]

landlord in olympia

Thanks for your post.

I don't know for sure about your state, but in my state if PNC were to choose to never settle, and the note is non-recourse, they'd have to sell the paper on the secondary market where they'd be fortunate to get 2 - 4 percent of the balance. Or they could decide to just eat the paper, LOL.

If the debt is recourse, PNC could FC if that loan isn't underwater. In my state, a secured junior can't sue a borrower/property owner. It's called the "security first rule", meaning a secured junior must first FC on the property before suing.

If your PNC 2nd is underwater, they won't FC; I recommend you ignore them. Good luck.

[landlord in olympia]

Kaylake,
That is what the DR negotiator said. She made it seem like the will stop accepting new requests after the 20th.

It could be a ploy to get me working with them, but who knows?

[KayLake]

landlord,
Appreciate the reply! I can only wait and see what they do at this point. I left them a message at THEIR request but so far no response. I cannot believe they will no longer settle. The more I think about it the more I do believe it is just a ploy on their part. Good luck to you and keep us posted!

[bankwhipped]

landlord,
Appreciate the reply! I can only wait and see what they do at this point. I left them a message at THEIR request but so far no response. I cannot believe they will no longer settle. The more I think about it the more I do believe it is just a ploy on their part. Good luck to you and keep us posted!

FWIW I received an unsolicited offer ( via mail) to settle a 2nd from them (recovery dept./consumer loan servicing dept.) several months ago, was able to make pmnts (3) instead of lump sum, no financials requested, I'm still in house although in FC for almost 3 years, made last pmnt a couple of weeks ago, haven't yet received the satisfaction of mort.

It all went very smooth, neg. down to 10 pct. from 15 percent original offer in 1 phone call and I am in a recourse state and amount was over 200k.

I will post more as soon as I rec. my satisfaction.

I never thought they would offer a settlement nor did I try to get one. Almost 3 years delinquent before offer came.

I would try calling back but don't leave a message, just keep trying till you get a live person.

I find it hard to believe that they will not do any more settlements.

[KayLake]

bankwhipped,
Thanks for the advice. I will call again tomorrow and no more messages either. Actually the letter says to contact a certain person and that is who I have been trying to contact. Since this person doesn't return messages maybe I should just ask for anyone who works in the bankruptcy department. Wish me luck! Thanks again for sharing your experience with PNC.

[KayLake]

PNC UPDATE:
I finally was able to speak with a live person today at PNC. They asked of my intentions on the property. I told them I was unsure but would not be making anymore payments to them. I was told they could send out a settlement package in which they would want my financials. I said I would not be sending anything to them. They then said I could fax to them an offer of a lump sum cash settlement and if they approved it I would be notified in writing as to when they would want the funds. They were very firm that it must be in one lump sum payment! I thought of you, bankwhipped and how they allowed you to make payments. It's funny how they never do anything the same with different people and their loans. I told them to fax me an offer first and they said "banks do not work like that"...whatever. I will go ahead and fax to them an offer tomorrow. Wish me luck. Thanks to this site I have so much more power. Now, I don't expect them to accept my offer. I'm quite sure they will come back with something I cannot afford but at the very least the ball is starting to roll. Not sure if it will keep rolling but it's rolling for now. I will keep everyone posted!

[bankwhipped]

PNC UPDATE:
I finally was able to speak with a live person today at PNC. They asked of my intentions on the property. I told them I was unsure but would not be making anymore payments to them. I was told they could send out a settlement package in which they would want my financials. I said I would not be sending anything to them. They then said I could fax to them an offer of a lump sum cash settlement and if they approved it I would be notified in writing as to when they would want the funds. They were very firm that it must be in one lump sum payment! I thought of you, bankwhipped and how they allowed you to make payments. It's funny how they never do anything the same with different people and their loans. I told them to fax me an offer first and they said "banks do not work like that"...whatever. I will go ahead and fax to them an offer tomorrow. Wish me luck. Thanks to this site I have so much more power. Now, I don't expect them to accept my offer. I'm quite sure they will come back with something I cannot afford but at the very least the ball is starting to roll. Not sure if it will keep rolling but it's rolling for now. I will keep everyone posted!

If I were you I would make my offer much less than I am willing to settle for, maybe 2-5 percent.

I would mention something to the effect that the house desperately needs a new roof or something like that ( expensive repairs) and that several realtors have told you they can not take the listing (unless you replace the roof) because no bank would give a loan on the house like that.

In another words, make they think that they don't want to FC as they will not get anything.

Keep in mind that even if they are not underwater, chances are they would not be willing to put more money into it to buy out the 1st. especially if they will have to repair it to sell it.

Good luck and stay firm, The ones that have mastered showing a don't give a D*** attitude are the ones that win.

I would also consider giving them a deadline in which they accept the offer or it would no longer be on the table say 48 to 72 hrs?

[Shifty]

PNC UPDATE:
I finally was able to speak with a live person today at PNC. They asked of my intentions on the property. I told them I was unsure but would not be making anymore payments to them. I was told they could send out a settlement package in which they would want my financials. I said I would not be sending anything to them. They then said I could fax to them an offer of a lump sum cash settlement and if they approved it I would be notified in writing as to when they would want the funds. They were very firm that it must be in one lump sum payment! I thought of you, bankwhipped and how they allowed you to make payments. It's funny how they never do anything the same with different people and their loans. I told them to fax me an offer first and they said "banks do not work like that"...whatever. I will go ahead and fax to them an offer tomorrow. Wish me luck. Thanks to this site I have so much more power. Now, I don't expect them to accept my offer. I'm quite sure they will come back with something I cannot afford but at the very least the ball is starting to roll. Not sure if it will keep rolling but it's rolling for now. I will keep everyone posted!

Dang, that is awesome. I am going to give them another call here in a few minutes, but I don't think I will get a hold of anyone. Did they actually give you a fax number, and if so, would you share it here, as I might go ahead and fax over a settlement offer since I cannot get a hold of anyone. Again, looks like you may be one step closer.

[Shifty]

KayLake, I found the fax number for PNC's loss mitigation and faxed them over a lump sum cash settlement offer. Let's see what happens.

[KayLake]

PNC UPDATE # 2: Well, I did get an offer to settle from PNC verbally over the phone. They asked for roughly 23 percent. I told them I did not have that kind of money. My contact person asked how close to his figure I could come up to. I responded by going up to 10 percent and was told he would have to contact me back. That was a few days ago. Nothing as of yet. I will keep all of you posted! At the very least I can say the person I'm having discussions with is pleasant. I know that means nothing but at least I haven't been speaking with someone who has an attitude.

[Shifty]

PNC UPDATE # 2: Well, I did get an offer to settle from PNC verbally over the phone. They asked for roughly 23 percent. I told them I did not have that kind of money. My contact person asked how close to his figure I could come up to. I responded by going up to 10 percent and was told he would have to contact me back. That was a few days ago. Nothing as of yet. I will keep all of you posted! At the very least I can say the person I'm having discussions with is pleasant. I know that means nothing but at least I haven't been speaking with someone who has an attitude.

That is awesome. Are you speaking with the loss mitigation group? I haven't received anything in the mail yet.

[KayLake]

PNC UPDATE # 3: As I read through my post above about PNC "asking" for roughly 23 percent actually they never "asked" what was actually said was "they need" that amount to release the lien so I felt I should clear that up. Anyway, I was denied the 10 percent offer. Since I am bankrupt I do believe they are very careful for asking for any money. I was told verbally once again that "PNC will not take less than" and then said an amount that is actually about 12.5 percent of the ORIGINAL balance. I once again was told to fax over the offer and he would contact me with the answer. Now, this time I went with the exact figure he said. I also said that was the maximum I was willing to offer as this money is coming from borrowed funds. My last fax was pretty short and I asked to be contacted within 5 business days. It has been a few days and so far no call. Not sure if they are going to take the offer this time or what. Since negotiations have been going on I have always been notified pretty promptly with the NO answer. Any thoughts here on what we might expect from this last offer? I would appreciate anyone's opinion. Bankwhipped? You seemed to have been able to do the impossible here any imput from you? Shifty? How about you?

[TomEason]

KayLake

Thanks for your post.

IMHO, you've been going about the wrong way. I recommend you follow the guide at post #1 of the following thread. Good luck.

Strategy for Settling Your 2nd

[bankwhipped]

PNC UPDATE # 3: As I read through my post above about PNC "asking" for roughly 23 percent actually they never "asked" what was actually said was "they need" that amount to release the lien so I felt I should clear that up. Anyway, I was denied the 10 percent offer. Since I am bankrupt I do believe they are very careful for asking for any money. I was told verbally once again that "PNC will not take less than" and then said an amount that is actually about 12.5 percent of the ORIGINAL balance. I once again was told to fax over the offer and he would contact me with the answer. Now, this time I went with the exact figure he said. I also said that was the maximum I was willing to offer as this money is coming from borrowed funds. My last fax was pretty short and I asked to be contacted within 5 business days. It has been a few days and so far no call. Not sure if they are going to take the offer this time or what. Since negotiations have been going on I have always been notified pretty promptly with the NO answer. Any thoughts here on what we might expect from this last offer? I would appreciate anyone's opinion. Bankwhipped? You seemed to have been able to do the impossible here any imput from you? Shifty? How about you?

They are purposely trying to make you sweat in hopes you will increase your offer.

Best advise I can give you is to not contact them again ( or at least for a long time), as hard as that is going to be, turn the tables and let them sweat, they will come back to you, and when they do, if it is after the deadline you gave them, act like you are not sure you can/want to settle as things have changed, not sure you want to keep house/lost job/needs too many repairs etc.

I can almost guarantee you that they will not buy out the 1st in order to FC on you even if it is in the money, they will not put/risk 180k in order to recoup 65k.

As far as interest and late fees, they stopped charging me after it was charged off, so my settlement was based on the principle and about 1 percent add'l for interest and late fees and since yours was discharged in BK, I doubt they can add any fees or interest.