Congrats to all. Good to start seeing more success stories.
Congrats to all. Good to start seeing more success stories.
Quick question. Is there a phone number you can share for BOA when you finally settled for 15k?
I have had success settling on my second mortgage with Citi. I was lucky enough to find this forum and some very good advice given by Tom Eason on how to settle. I stopped paying my second which was underwater 8 months ago. I actual initiated the settlement by sending my letter based on the samples provided on the forum. I received my first letter response 6 months in. It took 2 months of going back and forth before a settlement was agreed upon. The second mortgage went to LTD Financial and I worked with someone that was very helpful there as well. I actually did not have any rude interactions from Citi or LTD. They treated me like a human being! Thanks again for all of the great information!!!
Congratulations and thanks for posting your story!
I have 80/20 Mortgage and HEL on a house in GA. I refinanced in 2005 in an effort to keep my home after my divorce. I struggled for several years to pay the loans, taxes and condo fees. After seeing the home value drop from $300,000 to around $150,000 I decided to stop paying a move out. The first GMAC has begun foreclosure procedures- which is scheduled for July. The second with Wells Fargo has been charged off. The calls have stopped but I would like to settle the second if I can. I have not had any offers from WF- should I contact them and tell them I want to settle or should I just sit tight and wait? I would rather deal with WF then an outside collection agency.
BTW- this forum has been great and even though I'm going through this alone, I feel I have an invisible cheering squad!
glad it's over
Thanks for joining Loansafe.
FYI, this thread is dedicated to successful settlements, which you don't yet have.
I might recommend you start your own thread. You might also visit this thread and read the guide at post #1.
Strategy for Settling Your 2nd
FYI, a property owner should never work on settling a junior loan until the 1st has been permanently handled. In your case, your GMAC 1st has scheduled a FC date. If the FC occurs, you'll no longer have the 2nd because the condo will be gone.
Good luck to you.
You are the man, and I cannot thank you enough for your kindness in taking your time to help others. Regarding 2nd Mortgages/HELOCs.
I have a PNC Mortgage (400K) and HELOC (210K) originated together by PNC to purchase my home.
I live in IL (recourse state)
PNC HELOC is blocking a DIL I am trying to do with PNC Mortgage b/c the two sides are 50K apart on a settlement and asking me to make up diff. PNC Mortgage is ready to deny the DIL and "close the file" I am ready to let them do it, and let things go to foreclosure on the 1st and perhaps let the 2nd/HELOC go to writeoff and negotiate for pennies on the $ for settlement if at all.
Not sure what if anything I should do to settle the 2nd as it is again blocking the DIL.,
I know you recommend to NOT negotiate with 2nds. Being in a recourse state, the usual fears arise about what happens down the road as I understand 7+ years for the creditor to come back. Thats a long time for things to change in the courts, etc. regarding hearings for tendencies to grant judgements for deficiencies.
Questions regarding the 2nd - Trying to Size Up Liability for Deficiency Suit:
*Since by most definitions my HELOC this is a "purchase money" loan (HELOC originated with mortgage), I assume it is a recourse loan since I live in a recourse state? Could you confirm, and if non-recourse, how can I confirm 100% HELOC is considered a purchase loan?
*If the house if foreclosed upon, does the recourse status change on the 2nd since it would become an SOJL? Again, I am confirming that if in a recourse state, SOJL are recourse eligible too.
*Is there any situation in a recourse state that the mortgage or the HELOC become non-recourse short of BK, or a settlement (i.e. trustee/sheriff sale, etc.)
Thanks for your gracious remark.
FYI, this thread is dedicated to settlement success stories, which you don't yet have.
You might visit the following thread and read post #1. I think you'll find a DIL nigh on impossible. It it were me, I'd let the home to to FC. Good luck.
SS vs DIL vs FC Comparison
Thanks so much for the quick reply. Nigh on the impossible seems about right my friend regarding a DIL when there is a 2nd involved, even if both liens are with the same bank.
I have read the SS vs DIL vs FC Comparison at length and do understand the nuances of each instrument.
I thought my post might belong here as I am NOT having success settling the 2nd and it is blocking the DIL on the 1st. The next logical thoughts are to go into "crisis mode" and evaluate liability possibilities as I do live in IL, a recourse state. I figure most folks want to know "how bad it can get,and if there is anything else they could try" in the event the 2nd cannot be settled and what suggestions you might have when the fantastic advice dispensed on settling a 2nd here does not seem to work (again this is a wonderful forum and I am so thankful to everyone who gives freely of their time to help others!)
I understand that deficiency recourse on the 1st at FC and the 2nd assuming it is charged off, is that both creditors (again in this instance both loans are with PNC Bank) can pursue deficiency for a period of up to approximately 7 years from judgement on the FC and charge off respectively.
Do you have any advice to us poor recourse state residents on what options we might pursue in effecting an outcome to eliminate liability if a DIL/settlement/SS doesn't seem like an option and the 2nd cannot be settled ? Anything strategies to employ regarding we might ask for from the judge during a judicial FC (assume a in rem judgement on the FC is about it?) or from the 2nd during negotiations if things are at am impasse and BK is not an option.
Are we pretty much screwed and have to pray that the banks won't pursue or is there anything else besides BK we can hope or push for from the banks? Running out of options and grasping for a life preserver before potentially drowning in debt! Thanks in advance TomEason!
Why not start your own thread and/or post in a more appropriate forum/thread? You'll likely get much better actionable advice by so doing.
Although I might like to help, I must insist you avoid posting your questions here, lest "how to questions" soon clutter this thread, making it more difficult for other members to access success stories.
Your attempt to justify your posting won't cut it. If everyone who has trouble getting a loan mod/settlement/SS/DIL were to post here, it would be hopelessly cluttered. Members come here specifically to read the details of others' success stories.
Last edited by TomEason; 06-12-2012 at 04:18 PM.
2MP WITH CITI FULLY EXTINGUISHED
In California I filed Chapter 7 which was discharged in Jan 2010.
I didn’t reaffirm either loan.
1st with GMAC $378,000 a7 or 2nd with CITI
In September of 2011 following the
Home Value 386k;
1st 377k GMAC@ 5.75 percent Payment $2451
2nd Citi firstname.lastname@example.org percent Payment $1151
Stopped paying on second…
Sent letter to citi saying they could contact me to settle.
Applied online with GMAC for HAMP
Approved for HAMP.
Completed Trial payments of $2,446 Only $5 difference but was SUPPOSED to INCLUDE PROPERTY TAXES… IT DIDN’T But I digress…
Completed trial payments on HAMP and got a permanent MOD for $2,424…
Continued to ignore the second with CITI.
I received a Dodd Frank Certificate…
Returned it… verified they got it.
Waited about 3 months and then shot Frank.Eliason@Citi.com an email asking for status.
He forwarded my request to a member of the escalation team who contacted me the next business day.
(FYI during the last 6 months home value dropped another 50k)
She resubmitted my application for review for possible extinguishment.
The next day She contacted me again letting me know that the entire amount had had been extinguished.
It has been about a week and now I am holding a letter stating the same…
Anyways this website is a wonderful tool… Try to read as much as you can, it will give you confidence when dealing with the debt collectors.
Thanks again Tom and Cat!!!
My full story is posted at
Chapter 7 completed Jan 2010 Home Value 386k; 1st 377k GMAC; 2nd Citi 136k
My long and arduous Short Sale nightmare and all the ramifications came to an end on June 15th 2012 nearly 5 years after the whole thing started. I settled out the SOJL, a HELOC left over from the sale.
In brief, late in 07 prior to knowing about this sight, anything about a short sale let alone the do’s and don’ts regarding one, my wife and I hit some real hard financial times. Loss of income, loss of rental income from a second house, sickness and medical bills pushed us to the brink. This second house was mine before I got married. After my wife and I got married we rented out my house creating a plus cash flow and we lived together in her house. All was well. In 2006; I owed 210K on a house worth about 325K but it needed a new septic system so we did a HELOC for 50K to put the system in. We were planning on selling the place in the 08 – 09 time frame and we would have to do it then anyway. In 06 that house was increasing in value at over 10 percent a year. Then in 07 all hell broke loose including the housing collapse.
In early 2007; seeing all kinds of financial problems lurking on the horizon we decided to sell the second house. We were horrified to learn that it was worth maybe the 210K; enough to cover the first lien holder (BofA) not counting RE fees. We listed it for 230K, as it was a beautiful house in a perfect location for kid’s huge yard with old growth trees and in a perfect nice rural town with an excellent school system. We got a taker for 230K in days! For the reasons above.
BofA was very good throughout this whole thing but ETRADE who held the second lien that was being serviced by PNC CLC was not. Had PNC CLC quickly signed off on the short sale then, we would have been able to satisfy nearly all the shorts at closing with the exception of about 15K. But they dragged their feet for two more years, appraisals, missed deadlines, lost paper work you all have heard this before. The house value continued to fall, the original buyer bailed out and the race was on.
Finally on September 30th 2010 all the stars lined up and we closed, sold for 190K; 40K less than the first offer. BofA accepted the short sale and released me of any further collections, PNC did not. I brought 7K to closing for ETRADE PNC to release the lien; they did but held me up for the deficiencies, about 43K. Had they accepted the first offer two years earlier they would have received about 25K to 30K at closing.
PNC started right in with collection calls beginning in November 2010, they demanded 20K, Right then and there! This from a “gum smacking old harpy with a Jersey accent “I panicked and found this sight, things immediately got better for me from there. I began “Strategy for settling your” second” as soon as TomEason posted it. Using Strategy, I worked PNC down to 10K but they wanted financials – I refused per Strategy. As punishment PNC sent the debt over to MCB Management (3/2011), a collections outfit where a very somber and morbid sounding stiff by the name of Lou Ditto began to call. He got a carefully crafted cease and desist letter and that was it for them. The debt found its way back back to PNC (year later 4/2012), they sent a 30 days late notice with a demand for 43K, I did nothing. Then in May 2012 this huge collections outfit called NCO Financial Systems began call me, they were collecting on behalf of ETRADE. Wanted me to call them. Initially I ignored them per strategy and that’s when I came home from work to find a message on my answering machine. It was from a very pleasant collections agent name Kia, she said that she had a settlement offer for me and that if I called she would present it to me. I consulted this form as to what I should do and true to form TomEason said that he would never call and settle a SOJL unless there were extenuating circumstances. I have extenuating circumstances so I called. There offer was a 50 percent offer, I said no thanks and offered 5 percent and kindly hung up. Next came an offer for 30 percent to which I politely rejected and countered with 5 percent again. Then kia’s supervisor called and offered 20 percent or about $8732. I said that I would sleep on it per strategy. On June 12th I accepted that offer and mailed the check on June 15th.
One very important caveat here, I could have held out longer and received a much better settle in the 5 to 10 percent range. But for family, career and financial reasons I wanted to lose this debt and the charge off sooner rather than latter and no longer than this year.
Cheers; will stay in touch
Running Deer and Shobam, congrats! I'm going on one year not paying on my 2nd. Other than some spirited conversations, my lender doesn't seem interested in settling. Good to see that others are getting resolution.
I have been following the Strategy for settling 2nd's and made my last payment in DEC 2011. I sent a letter offering %2.5 as I knew this was low, but I wanted to start of negotiation low. Yesterday I received a letter saying they are willing to take 18.95% on $35,000 which would be $6700 and some change, and that the loan would be settled in full after payment. My question is do I need to fill out and turn in any specific paperwork to SPS (my 2nd mortgage holder) other than the agreement with payment to make this transaction correctly happen without them trying to scam or get one over on me? Your help is greatly appreciated, and I am super excited to get rid of this headache. I will post my success after all said and done. Thanks in advance.
Congratulations and thanks for taking the time to post your story here! Your Citi full extinguishment 2MP was an unexpected windfall - you're one of the fortunate few to have received one!
Thanks again for your gracious remarks. It's satisfying to hear that you've gained so much value from this site.
Welcome to Loansafe. Please know this thread is dedicated to final success stories only, which you don't yet have. Please return once you do. In the meantime, I recommend you continue to follow the strategy.
Every conceivable situation has already been addressed on that thread. Good luck.
Last edited by TomEason; 06-19-2012 at 11:53 AM.
Thanks for taking the time to post your story here. I'm glad this ordeal is finally behind you!
Stay in touch. Ciao.
Hello, I have been asked by Tom to post my story though I have not settled with my second yet.
Upon following the strategy for settling our second, we were served with breech of contract suit by our lender.
We are in Ca and have the Security First Rule that says they must foreclose before they sue.
This was initiated in Dec 2011 by our bank and we have been going back and forth with court dates and lawyer meetings since.
During this time the bank only gave us one settlement offer of 33 percent which we countered but did not hear back.
I am happy to report that today we finally had the case dismissed and we are optimistic to be settling soon as their only recourse is foreclosure and we are underwater on our first..
Keep fighting and following the strategy, it works!!
Thanks much for taking the time to post your story here!
@ fellow Loansafe readers
jbutterfly3's story is about how their secured underwater 2nd lender sued her and her husband for breach of contract, despite the existence of the CA "Security First Rule." In her wordsEven though they realize there's no merit in their complaints, we're seeing an increasing number of these lawsuits by lenders. Why? Because they believe they'll enjoy enough success to justify the strategy. If they sue many borrowers, there are a number who won't bother to answer the complaint, thereby providing the lenders with easy default judgments.It sounds like the judge basically said they are a joke, Security First Rule is clear!!!
Don't give up if you get sued by your second, defend yourselves.
I first have to say I want to thank all the LS members, especially Tom Easton, for their knowledge and wisdom through my 3+ year ordeal with chase. In the last 3 years on my 80/20 with chase, I have completed 2 perm mods on the 1st, five CAs on the second, with two offers from chase to settle the second. First offer was little more than 20 percent, the second offer a bit more that 10 percent. Both offers came from chase in the last 7 months, after I have dealt with 4 CAs.
Well now I have to say we are done and done with this process. Just rec'd my release paperwork from the 5th CA doing the final 10 percent settlement from chase. The 110K second was settled for a little under 11K. I was not able to make the payment directly to chase when the 10 percent offer came through Feb '12. So the CA let me pay a small fee the first month to show them that I was trying to get the funds to pay this thing off. I did the 10 percent wire transfer two days ago, and now we over with this long a tiresome process. The CA paperwork shows that the account will show "Settled in Full".
To tell you the truth, I became very good and dealing with all the CAs, I never let them treat me as though I was a child, and to tell you the truth, I knew the laws/rules as well as they did. With help from Tom Easton I felt I hand not only had the upper hand, but what could they really do since the first was underwater, plus chase owned both loans.
I have to say the last CA rep I dealt with, was very professional and just plain nice to talk to. I was very upfront and honest with her, and the transaction went through without a problem.
I feel as though a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders, and now we can move on with our lives.
All I have to say is never stop the fight, many many times I wanted to just walk, but I held on and we did make headway...
Last edited by Chased around and around; 06-22-2012 at 09:11 AM.
We recently started following this process to settle our 2nd mortgage with green tree servicing who services our 2nd mortgage for bofa. We live in CA. Our loan amount is $140,000. They contacted us with an offer to settle for $104,000. We countered their offer at a figure much closer to what they might actually get in a short sale - after all other debts and fees are paid - about 3 percent of the loan balance. Instead of countering, they sent us a letter saying they have referred us to their short sale unit. We did not even mention short sale in our counter. What should be our strategy at this point?
Last edited by ssauburn; 06-22-2012 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Adding information
Ignore them and don't make contact unless they have an offer you like.
Welcome to Loansafe.
FYI, this thread is dedicated to Success Stories in Settling 2nds, which you don't yet have. I recommend you visit the following thread and follow the strategy guide at post #1.
Strategy for Settling Your 2nd
You do have an option. Please know your posts are no longer welcome here.
There's a reason I closed that thread. And it's this.
There have been 3,740 posts, and every conceivable question and situation has already been addressed at least once. There have been no novel questions or new situations in many months. The thread, while still very popular, has become overly long and unwieldy.
Although the thread is closed, all of the posts and information will remain accessible. It’s now an archived reference; the most comprehensive on this topic available anywhere.
Visitors can utilize the thread search tool to find answers, or just browse the pages and posts to learn more about the subject.
Last edited by TomEason; 06-25-2012 at 11:35 AM.
I have been discharged from a chapter 7 since 7/2010 and did not reafirm my first or second mortgage. My first has been paid on time but I have not paid the second since 8/2011. My home value is $109K and my first mortgage balance is $110 and my second mortgage balance is $41K. Today I recieved a letter from WF today stating;
Due to inactivity, continued default and a lack of equity or monetary gain associated with the above loan-referenced loan, the loan was charged off. You may recieve an IRS 1099-C. Until a 1099-C is issued or the loan has a zero balance, payments continue to be accepted and applied as recieved. However due to the loan status, weare unable to offer a formal payment plan or process a modification for the loan.
What does this mean? Will they keep the second lein on the hoan or if I get a 1099-C will they release lein. I live in Georgia.
Sorry, i am trying to find out what this letter means.