Old 03-02-2009, 01:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Heloc with CW will not compromise.

I was able to get my 1st to modify to a very nice practical solution but because of it CW will not even lock in a rate or do anything to stabalize my loan. I am now over 30 days late on my heloc and am making payments to an attorney to file BK. I am thinking of just skipping the payments on the 2nd to pay the attorney and start the ch 13. I would like to wait on completing the bk as the rules may change.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Can CW who has no equity in the home as I am upside down even on the 1st, foreclose?

Thanks for any suggestions,
signed,
Almost There.


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Old 03-02-2009, 02:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Is CW the lien holder for the first and second note?
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

The first is by Downey Savings.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Well the modification on the first should be none of CW's business. However depending on to what extreme you want to go. You can always default on the HELOC and eventaully they will cancel the debt and write it off. #1 that hurts your credit, #2 you will get a 1099C in the mail next year for the amount of the ccancelled debt. ie. you have to pay income tax on the amount forgiven. Howver there is away around that by claiming insolvency on your tax return and you would have to pay fed tax on it. You would def want a qualified tax accountant to do your taxes then. Under chapter 13 depending on your income you will be paying back your debts through the courts for up to 5 years. I would consult your attorney on your best options.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

couldn't edit the post above. But if you claim insolvency on your tax return you would NOT have to pay fed tax on it. Above I miss typed and said would.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Thanks for the info Knightfall.

Do you think that CW can foreclose as my ballance on the first is higher than the value of the property? If there is no value for the 2nd to calim I would think they could no foreclose.

The credit score issue is a long past conclusion as I defaulted some time back on cc debt.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

CW wouldn't pay the money to foreclose as they virtually have no interest in the property considering the negative equity. Plus once you file it stops all creditors from pursuing the debt during the bankruptcy proceedings. If you do file chapt 13 make sure that the payment terms are still favorable after your many years of chapt 13 payments.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightfal View Post
If you do file chapt 13 make sure that the payment terms are still favorable after your many years of chapt 13 payments.

This statement threw me off a bit. If I file ch 13 the 2nd would be stripped as part of it because it is an unsecured debt at this point. So what payment after the 13 is completed are you refering?
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Technically it is a secured debt. I doubt any judge would allow it to be discharged off. So the payment I am talking about is the CW one.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Why would it not be charged off as there is no value to claim. Under ch 13 if there is no value it qualifies under its rules. So they would get thier part of the payment to settle the 13 for 3-5 years and be done. At least this is what I have come to know.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

And if since there is no equity and the judge does strip the lien, then why wast the money for chapt 13? You could just default they cancel the debt eventually and lien is gone. and you have not locked into chapt 13 for years. You have to weight all your options, and decide what is financially best for you.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Thats a thought but with the 2nd and CC debt eventually they will garnish wages, sue, etc..., would rather not go through that. I am told that the CC companies usually sue in the 2nd year of default and I am in that year now. The idea is to stabalize the situation and I hope to through the BK. If the rules change I am hoping I can cram down in a ch 7. This way there is no payments as in a ch 13.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

The income rules for chapt7 are pretty tight. My wife stopped paying her unsecured debt back in oct of 07. all unsecured debt has been charged off and sold to collection agencies. Eventually it all just gets written off as bad debt and it passes. Unless your talking about credit cards that were like 20k 30k balances. I doubt the collection agency will sue. and they have no right to collect wage garnishment against you.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhn_plsn View Post
Can CW who has no equity in the home as I am upside down even on the 1st, foreclose?

Thanks for any suggestions,
signed,
Almost There.
Bump my original question.

I am pretty much set on a ch 13 so if anyone has an answer or info for the above question it may take some gray out of my hair and maybe even 50lbs off my butt.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightfal View Post
The income rules for chapt7 are pretty tight. My wife stopped paying her unsecured debt back in oct of 07. all unsecured debt has been charged off and sold to collection agencies. Eventually it all just gets written off as bad debt and it passes. Unless your talking about credit cards that were like 20k 30k balances. I doubt the collection agency will sue. and they have no right to collect wage garnishment against you.
actually that depends on what state you live in and what the statutes are in your state, In florida were I live, credit cards collections accounts can sue for judgments and get them, we had 2 credit cards go to collections in 2002, in 2004 they took me to court, got judgements against me the original balances were $1100 and $1800. we were making payments to them to try and clear it up, but then we had some financial setbacks and they would not take reduced payments, 1 of them actually filed for garnishment against my bank account and the judge approved it, i was able to borrow from my employer and pay it off, then had to take a 2nd 401k loan and pay back my employer. we have since paid them off and they judgements were satisfied however my transunion creidit reports still show them as unpaid, even though we supplied the credit bureau with copies of the satisfaction of judgements, what a mess. AS FOR THE 2ND MORTGAGE, they can and will file foreclosure regardless of equity or not. In 2006, I made a payment arrangement for arrears on my 2nd mortgage with (Greentree bought the 2nd, worse than cw to deal with) well they called me 2 months into the payment arrangement which was 1/4 of 2 payments added to my regular payment and told me the person who made the arrangement was no longer their and they wanted thier 2 payments immediately, I told them I could not do this for at least 6 months when my 401k loan was paid ( I used 401k loans to help pay for son's college) that said no deal hung up on me and within 30 days filed foreclosure, when I called their foreclosure dept and explained the situation with the original arrangement, since I did not have anything in writing from the former employee, oh well and when I asked why would they want to foreclose a $29,000 mortgage to assume a 1st lien with a much higher balance that could wipe them out in a counter foreclosure, they said they didn't care and were going forward with the proceeding, luckily for us my husband was talking to one the other managers with his company and foudn out they did hardship loans for things like this for the managers and executives on a case by case, my husband contacted the VP who got us the funds right away, 4 payments = $1680 quickly became $5000 with all their fees added, we paid and I filed with the court a notice that the past due amounts and all fees were paid in full, in case they tried anything else, eventully took 120 days to get it all dismissed. moral of the long story, never assume anything in regards to owing a bank or anyone else money especially if it is secured dept! good luck
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Thanks bud. Not what I wanted to hear but is food for thought and must be considered sereously. I am 2 months behind on my 2nd and need about 1200 more to file the ch13. I was hoing the rules Obama may end up passing would pass first, but even those sound like they will be considerably watered down.

Again Thank You for the response.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

jhn plsn

good luck, even though we got a subprime high rate 1st mortgage from CW at least we got rid of that nasty 2nd mortgage, like trading 1 evil for another lol! but it is much better now that we got our modifiction thru Naca, fixed rate 6% for the life of the loan, no longer a subprime mortgage, good luck with your journey!
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Just ran across an article that may or may not help clear things a little for me anyway. The author mentions that Heloc lenders cannot initiate a foreclosure. I sent off an e-mail for her to clarify by state if possible.

Is Your Home Equity Line of Credit Next? at SmartMoney.com
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1st modified again=USBank, 3% for 5yrs, 4.95 cap for the life of the loan(no principle write down but a stable solution)
2nd(heloc)=BofA offered three month trial at 1/3 the payment. We'll see.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

jhn plsn
that is an interesting article, we had a straight 2nd mortgage not a heloc, maybe that is why they were able to start foreclosure, I have always been told anyone that holds an interest in your property can foreclose, actually we had a claim of lien filed for homeowners dues in 2005 missed 2 quarterly payments and the association attorney was going to start foreclosure process on about 100 of us that were delinquent, we got cash advance on cc and paid the lien. I woulld check with a real estate attorney in your state and not assume automatically a heloc can't foreclose.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Quote:
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I woulld check with a real estate attorney in your state and not assume automatically a heloc can't foreclose.
I asked her in the e-mail I sent off to explain further. I am in the middle of paying a lawyer for BK so I will get with them after this new law is passed.
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John, Upside down big time.
1st modified again=USBank, 3% for 5yrs, 4.95 cap for the life of the loan(no principle write down but a stable solution)
2nd(heloc)=BofA offered three month trial at 1/3 the payment. We'll see.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

one thing changing in the bill as it passed the house today, you have to attempt to get a reasonable mod thru your servicer first and prove that you tried and the offer to mod was not given or was not within the proposed payment guidelines set by gov, more details will be released when it is passed, but it won't be an easy road to getting principal reduced as we all hoped it would be
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Quote:
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one thing changing in the bill as it passed the house today, you have to attempt to get a reasonable mod thru your servicer first and prove that you tried and the offer to mod was not given or was not within the proposed payment guidelines set by gov, more details will be released when it is passed, but it won't be an easy road to getting principal reduced as we all hoped it would be
Ya, I originaly thought I would be ok here as my 1st gave me a good deal in December 2008, but the 2nd told me to go pound sand. Now I am willing to bet that I will have to start over with both, but thats ok.
Question is will the lenders be given a deadline on each request for those considering BK? We cannot just sit around and wait for them.
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John, Upside down big time.
1st modified again=USBank, 3% for 5yrs, 4.95 cap for the life of the loan(no principle write down but a stable solution)
2nd(heloc)=BofA offered three month trial at 1/3 the payment. We'll see.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

who knows, they way they keep paring down the bill, it will be nothing but a tada we did something, but it isn't really going to help anyone kinda bill. what strikes me as odd is bankruptcy judges have always had the power to modify terms and principal on 2nd home, vacation homes or investment properties, but the lenders and 1/2 the politicians are putting up 1 hell of a fight to stop the bkrupcty judges from having the power to modify primary residences, makes you go hmmmm??
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

Makes you think about who they are protecting. Oh Ya, the wealthy? How many people actually own a second home. Maybe a rental yes but a vacation home. I suppose a motorhome could qualify though.
I figure they are thinking to many people would run and line up at the courthouse without looking for alternatives. I understand this, but there is some oversight for abusive filers.
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1st modified again=USBank, 3% for 5yrs, 4.95 cap for the life of the loan(no principle write down but a stable solution)
2nd(heloc)=BofA offered three month trial at 1/3 the payment. We'll see.
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:01 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Heloc with CW will not compromise.

The reason why the whole country are in deep trouble because of greed from the wealthy and corrupt politicians.
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