My Countrywide escapade and Hi!

[scbrvt]

Hey everybody. I wanted to introduce myself and give you my (long) story.

I bought my home in 1998 just after I graduated from college for $240K. It was a probate buy. While I was in escrow, I found out that my dad had put my money (ALL of the money I inherited when my mom died when I was 13) in a risky investment and it was lost. (Dad left when I was 2. We were never close. I guess that’s why he didn’t really look out for my best interest with the estate. Who knows. And you know what, I’d rather have a mom than a college education, a house, or any of this, but that’s not the point.) Anyway, my mortgage broker is the dad of a college friend, and was able to work the system to close the loan despite this finding. I got a neg-am ARM, but I already planned to re-fi in a year or two, so it didn’t matter, and it was cheap.
The house needed a lot of work, so I took a second and did the work, mostly on my own and with friends, but there was some stuff I needed a contractor for. I re-financed to consolidate the first and second. Another neg-am ARM, but the house was gaining equity like wildfire, so it was not really a concern. (Uh-huh…) And life was great-I was with a terrific guy; we were planning to marry. I had a fun-if-not-so-high-paying job at a vet hospital and volunteered at the zoo. The fiancé was paying WAY MORE than his share of the home loan. Why worry, right?
So, in late 2004, I got the feeling my fiancé was backing out of the relationship, so I had to find a way to afford the mortgage. Mortgage broker suggested re-fi for equity to buy an apartment building, which I did. The house had been appraised for $1.5 million! I was in great shape, per him! No worries! So the home loan went up to $900K (“Countrywide Conventional Jumbo PayOption *ie:neg-am* ARM” at 3.575% Margin and ~ 8% interest rate with deferred interest of about $4K per month if I only make the minimum payment option.) The apartment loan was ~$700K (also neg-am, but less of a monthly loss at 7.5% interest with WaMu and only about $750-$1000 deferred interest per month on a minimum payment.) So the fiancé split, which was totally depressing, but at least I'd be financially OK, as I had “planned for the future by investing in real estate”…Blah blah blah.
Let’s do some math:
I make about $3K per month as a veterinary technician. My income from the apartment building rents is about $7K. My minimum payment on the house is $3K/mo. On the apartment building, it is $3760/mo. (That’s already leaving me behind.) Not to mention that over the years, I had a lot of things I had to fix on this rental property, and very little income to make it happen, let alone eat, pay for utilities, etc... With my exceptionally good credit and sneaky mortgage broker, I qualified for 4 equity loans for total of $225K. These were as of Monday basically used, with only about $30,000 remaining.
When I started getting notices over the summer that my home loan was going to reset to over $7,000/mo MINIMUM PAYMENT, I started to evaluate my options. I considered selling the rental, as it has also built up quite a bit of equity (Appraisal last month was $1.5M and I bought it for $950K in 2005) and went over the options with a realtor. He said I could likely sell it for $1.4M) But we found that with capital gains, closing costs, etc., that if I put the projected profit back into my home, it still wouldn’t get me a fixed on the house I could afford on my salary alone. My mortgage broker suggested that we look into a re-fi on the apartment building and asked me for a check to show intent and funds. I wrote WaMu a check for $12,000 that was just supposed to be “held and not cashed until we decided to proceed,” and when I decided NOT to proceed, they said it was too late to get my “lock in deposit” back which they hadn’t cashed yet, but as soon as I asked for it, they did. (Seriously within minutes of asking for it back.) So I signed loan docs for this new 5 year fixed at 6.35% on $1M at $6222/mo. I used the cashout to pay down my equity loans, so that I don’t have to pay $1500/month on those, but the payment is still $800/mo more than I was paying last month. I also have a vacant apartment that I’m trying to fill, which is costing me $1400/mo for the past 2 mo. (I have an open house this Sunday, so hopefully a new tenant will bridge that gap for me, at least.)
I have a “new” boyfriend who just moved here after a year and 7 mo long-distance relationship. He had a hard time finding a good job, but now he’s contributing $500/mo to the home mortgage. However, I don’t want to rely on that money after the last guy. (Especially now that I’m so stressed out and *****y all of the time because of all of this. I swear it won’t be long until he can’t take me anymore and goes back to New York.)
So anyway, I contacted the Workout Team at Countrywide to see what I could do about trying to prevent my home loan from going up to over $7K/mo in 4-6 months. I was told to fax a letter of hardship, 2 months bank statements and pay stubs to them, and that I’d hear from someone within 7-10 business days. I did that on 12/17. I called them back two weeks later to check the progress, and was told that my file was closed due to “lack of funds.” Now, let me get this straight: Isn’t the “Workout Team” there to help people who are experiencing a “lack of funds???”
They said they would re-open the file and “escalate” it if I faxed my most current pay stubs and a revised letter saying exactly what I was looking for. (Previously I had merely asked for their opinion on what I should do, and any suggestions were much appreciated.) I also found out that my “negotiator” is named Gina Williams at ext. 4858, but that negotiators are not allowed to talk to clients on the phone, as they “spend too much time on each call.” So I faxed the requested information to her attention and *begged* for her to respond in some way, and not to just toss my file in the garbage bin. That was on 1/14. I haven’t heard from her (or anyone else fro Countrywide) yet.
And let me just say that aside from the frustration of all of this, their phone system is built to make a person want to end it all swiftly. The voice recognition customer service lady is so infuriating and I have the hold music permanently stuck in my subconscious. I dream about calling them every time I lay my tired head down for a moment. I love this:
HER: “Thanks for Calling Countrywide. Your call is very important to us. Please tell me what you’re calling about. You can say something like, “I’d like to make a payment,”… or “insurance information.”
ME: “Verify receipt of a fax.”
HER: “I think you said “Tax information.” Is that right?”
ME: “NO.”
HER: “I’m sorry. I didn’t catch that. Please tell me what you’re calling about. You can say something like, “I’d like to make a payment,”…or “insurance information.”
ME: “Talk to a representative.”
HER: “I think you want to talk to a representative. Unfortunately, I need to know what you’re calling about before I transfer you to one of our agents. You can say something like, “I’d like to make a payment,”…or “insurance information.”
ME: “Extension 4858”
HER: “I think you said your payment is going to be a little late. Is that right?”
ME: NO. GRRR. [silence]
HER: “Your call is very important to us. Please tell me what you’re calling about. You can say something like, “I’d like to make a payment,”…or “insurance information.”
ME: [silence]
HER: “Please let me know how I can help you today.”
HER: “Say something like “I’d like to make a payment,”…or “insurance information.”
HER: “You can say something like “Year end tax information,”…or “recent payment information.”
HER: “In order to help you, you need to give me some idea of why you’re calling.”
HER: “Let me see if I can find someone to help you.”
ME: [HOLDING FOR 40 MINUTES. CRYING AND LOSING MY MIND]
REP: “Thanks for calling Countrywide. How can I help you today?”
ME: “Is this the Home Retention Department?”
REP: “No. This is the Department for Dealing with Morons Who Can’t Navigate our Phone System. I can transfer you to Home Retention. Please hold.”
ME: “NO! WAIT!!”
HER: “Thanks for Calling Countrywide. Your call is very important to us. Please tell me what you’re calling about. You can say something like, “I’d like to make a payment,”… or “insurance information.”

Thanks for being here. I love this forum. A lurker no more.
-Stephanie

[scbrvt]

Oh. I almost forgot- Before contacting the realtor to look at selling the apartment building, I tried to refinance the house. The appraisal came in at $950,000, which is $20,000 LESS than what I currently owe Countrywide on my home loan. So that won't work.

There is a site called www.gethuman.com, they may have the formula for getting around that obnoxious recorded voice. It is a very handy site for git arounds on automated phone systems. Put together and added to by all of us very frustrated humans on the other side of the phone.

If they do not.....try my favorite series of 0's any combination, 3, 4, 5 - whatever until you do get through to a human.

I loved your post, it is great, exactly to a tee.

Yep checked the site, they got the git around for Countrywide.

[pbbobkanobi]

When the stupid voice prompts asks you what you want to do just say "custormer service" over and over and it will connect you to a human.

Works like a charm!

[scbrvt]

I've tried all of of those things (pressing 0 repeatedly, or asking for an agent repeatedly, or just not saying anything until it transfers- although sometimes it will disconnect me instead of transferring to an agent.) However, I have always ended up getting transferred to a bottom level agent in collections, usually, who then will try and transfer me to Home Retention, where the voice recognition system takes over again. How does one get to the point where you have one real contact person with an email, a voice mailbox or direct line and fax? It is so hard to get anywhere when you have to fax everything multiple times to nobody in particular, you can't call to verify receipt of the faxes, and you have to explain your case over and over to each different person every time you call. I know that the agents make notes in the computer file when they speak to someone, so why can't I ask to speak to someone I spoke to before? I spoke to someone named Michella (sp?) on 1/14. She was nice, intelligent, compassionate, and helpful (although in the wrong department...maybe that's why she was helpful- she's not jaded yet.) But, of course, we got disconnected. I called back and asked to speak to her again; they saw her notes in the computer, but said she had no extension. That just can't be possible.

Thanks to a perfectly good obscure listing system here are some Countrywide Numbers:

818.225.3000 Calabassas

818.304.4428 Pasadena

These are numbers that are provided to the SEC for filing purposes, please feel free to use them, I would certainly embarrass whomever at the other end of the line to provide you with a number that you can actually get through on and get a human being for real time assistance. I think that Andrew also has some numbers as well.

[scbrvt]

Sweet! I will try these numbers when I start up calling again on Monday morning. Thanks!

Hope they work, if some of my mortgage buddies are at work on Monday (holiday) I will try to get a few more choice and certainly embarrassing numbers.

[scbrvt]

That's so funny. If you ever need veterinary advice, you're welcome to ask me. And darnit I forgot it was a holiday. The hospital where I work never really closes, so I always forget about holidays. I'm off on Mondays, but I guess I won't get too far this week. Bummer. Another week down the tube and another week closer to crisis time.

I just finished reading the thread "It’s Not All Subprime. Pay Option ARM’s - California’s Billion Pound Gorilla" and it looks like I'm in even more trouble than I thought. Not only do I have one of the most (if not THE most) difficult to negotiate with lenders, but I have the same crappy type of loan that they've pretty much said they're not willing to modify. I don't know if my "friend" the loan broker was working in what he thought to be my best interest, but I do know that he has the same loan that I do on multiple properties of his own. He actually asked me to look into modification not only for myself, but to learn and teach him about the process, too. He's sh*tting himself, too. I would like to think that he would not have intentionally set out to screw me for his gain, but I'm going to pull out all of my loan docs from the beginning of time and try to see if he did.

Due to just having refinanced the apartment building, I can afford to make the fully amoritized payments on my house for a few months. Would that be advisable, or is that just stupid. After reading more and more on this site, it really looks like I am not going to get anywhere. The neg-am ARM, Countrywide, making minimum payments for the history of this loan, dropping value on my home, and a HUGE debt make it seem like even if they gave me a 40 year fixed at 6.5% or less, I still couldn't afford the payments. (Like Moe predicts in the above referenced thread.) Should I resign myself to a short sale and move in to my 2 bedroom vacancy at my apartment building?

At this point you need to send CountryWide a QWR (Qualified Written Request) for everything, Life of Loan History, ALL documents, Copies of Original Notes and Deeds of Trust, TIL, Right to Cancel, all Riders to the Note, copy of the original application signed at closing, everything in your file with them. They must provide them, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Send 3 of these requests by Certified Return Receipt Mail. Make them run around for awhile. While you are at it fax a few too.

Get out your original documents, from the origination of this loan through to the closing. Arrange them chronologically and check for certain documents at the time of closing. TIL, Right to Cancel (2 copies), HUD-1. Review your final application in the package - how was income treated, was it inflated, do you have a copy of your original appraisal, was it inflated. From what you have said they must have treated this as a Stated or No Doc type of submission, were there irregularities in that documentation.

If things do not appear to be proper in the stack of closing documents, then you very well might want to proceed to the Document Review stage. You must fight fire with fire, you need to be proactive and on the offensive.

[scbrvt]

OK Poppy. I'm on this for Monday. Thanks for the plan of attack. Should I get all of these docs together for each of the loans, from when I first bought the house and each refinancing including the current, or just the current loan?

I was thinking about it last night, and I'm pretty certain that there were papers I signed on the first loan that I did not sign for subsequent refinances. These may have been forged by my broker to "expedite" the closing, as I work long, strange hours. Also, sometimes there was a notary, and sometimes not. The more I read about these option ARM's the more it all makes so much more sense now then it ever did before. It's funny how this happens to a lot of people- we just sign and let people make thse horrible decisions on our behalf, thinking that's just how it's done. Nobody takes the time to explain anything, and you feel like you don't even know the questions to ask and don't want to feel like a tool for asking "dumb" questions. I remember the transition from me being freaked out by spending $20, to just thinking of hundreds of thousands of dollars going in and out of my bank account as Monopoly money. Now my lost inheiritance seems like chump change compared to the wheelings and dealings of the past 10 years. It all seems so fake, and I guess it really is. Except now I have to account for it.
-Stephanie

A purchase transaction has some significantly different documentation in the package than that of a refinance transaction. T'were it me I would get all of the transactions out, however focus on the one that you are presently dealing with, that is the one in jeopardy, it is the wolf at your door. I am always curious to see the prior transaction data preceding the one that I am underwriting as it has some telling implications for the new one. However, that is a front end curiousity and is not necessarily a function of this process.

However, what I would be curious about is.....was the old lender that you refinanced from, the same as the lender that you refinanced to. Was there a prepayment penalty, what was the time elapsed from one refinance to the other if they were indeed the same lender and was a prepayment penalty charged paying off the old loan from the present loan (refinance).

These are relevant issues, where there are multiple refinances, within the same lender shop, that should be addressed.

Thanks to Moe - the following numbers and address as well as names of the guilty. Enjoy.........

No problem. Make sure you send it certified mail to at least 3 people below.

Mailing address: (Send all your certified complaint letters, etc. here.)

Contrywide Mortgage
400 Countrywide Way SV-HRD
Simi Valley, CA 93065

[Andrew]

Check out my success thread I also had other numbers besides the ones poppy listed. Look at my letter and you will see a direct number to the Preisdents office. I obtained those numbers listed above from the BBB website.

SCVRBT said, "Oh. I almost forgot- Before contacting the realtor to look at selling the apartment building, I tried to refinance the house. The appraisal came in at $950,000, which is $20,000 LESS than what I currently owe Countrywide on my home loan. So that won't work."

The focus on your efforts should be on what I'll characterize as a salvage effort. Things don't look good for the house, particularly when you add the costs of selling (I approximate 10% of the sales price or an additional $95,000).

The practical solution relative to it may be to stop making payments, enjoy the "rent free" six months it will take for CW to complete the foreclosure, and move on as another victim of the crash of 2007-20XX.

The apartments may be another story depending on your equity position. That may include being a tenant in your own apartment building. SCVRBT, having lived through two of these downturns as what I'll characterize as an expert on the transactional side, and as a tenured faculty member having no vested interest in this downturn, I can afford to be blunt and honest in my response (if you are a California taxpayer, thanks for paying my salary). I hope you don't take my response as being too harsh. You need to look carefully at your options and recognize that this is a falling (and perhaps failing) market. Do what is best to protect income streams and not assets that are in reality liabilities because they are "underwater" in terms of equity.

Take care,

Daniel

How did it go today? Any headway - I personally chased one of the blinkty blankity dogs around for over 3 hours, she is a small Terrier and thinks this is fun game in 20 degree weather. Wonder if they freeze in mid flight over a period of time, would make the little devil easier to catch

Since you are in the Vet business though you would get a chuckle out of that.

However, to the more serious and certainly more important task at hand - did you make any headway with the folks at Country Wide..... Do not give up hope, keep fighting, if you believe in something it is worth the good fight.

Let me know.

[scbrvt]

Hi Poppy. I had to work today, so I couldn't call anybody. I can totally relate to your dog story. We have 4 dogs, 5 cats and a bird. I know it's nuts, but when you work at a vet hospital, you tend to bring work home with you, and sometimes, it stays.
Yesterday, I pulled out all the documents I could find. I have closing statements and titles for each loan I've ever had since I bought the house in 1998. I have the second appraisal. I do not have applications. It seems as though my loan broker charged me 1% of the principal balance as a broker's fee on my home loan. On my apartment building, he charged 3%. Is that normal, mean, or nice? There are a few other questionable fees, but not the YSP that some here have mentioned. Or at least it's not called that. (Is there another name they might call it?) I can scan and post the closing statements later for whomever might have interest in looking at them, but not now. My boyfriend is getting irritated at how consumed I am with this, and I need to pay attention to him, too, sometimes.
Also, yesterday I wrote my QWR. I posted it in another thread, but I'll put it here, too. I also recalculated my mortgage and I don't think it's going to reset in 4-6 months, but rather closer to 12-15. So at least that looks like it will give me more time to fight. So I guess that's good.
Should I make more than the minimum payment while I have the money to do it, or is that just a waste of money at this point?
Thanks for all of the support.
-Stephanie


OK. Here it is. Feedbck welcome.



Attention Customer Service:

Subject: Loan number xxxxxxxxxx
Stephanie xxxxx

xxxx xxxxxxxx xxx
Los Angeles, CA xxxxx


This is a "Qualified Written Request" under Section 6 of the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act (RESPA).

I am writing to request:

(1) Copies of all documents pertaining to the origination of my mortgage including my loan application, Right to Cancel, Deed of Trust, note, adjustable rate note, addendum to the note for the interest only payment period, Truth in Lending statements, Good Faith Estimate (GFE), HUD 1, appraisal, and all required disclosures and rate sheets associated with this transaction for the above referenced loan. The copies should be legible and all documents shall be copied in their entirety.
(2) A copy of the loan history including all payments made, all fees incurred, what has been paid out of the escrow account, and how all payments were applied. This information should cover the entire life of the loan.

I have reason to believe that the loan terms were misrepresented to me at the time of application and further obscured and/or modified prior to signing. I believe that my income was inflated on the application, and that the property appraisal was similarly falsely inflated. I also have reason to believe that certain statements were not provided for my approval prior to closing, and that signatures may have been forged on various documents. Additionally, I believe that a notary was not present to witness my signatures on several pertinent documents.

I started the process of trying to renegotiate this loan on 12/11/07 when I spoke with Andrew in your Home Retention department. On 12/18/07, I faxed a letter of hardship, along with bank statements and pay stubs as he recommended. I was advised that someone would contact me within 7-10 working days. On 1/14/08, I called back, as I hadn’t heard from anyone. I was told that my claim was denied due to lack of funds. I was instructed to fax a revised letter of hardship and new pay stubs, and I was told that my negotiator was named Gina Williams at extension 4858. I faxed those documents to her attention on 1/14/08.

I have been given the runaround by the voice recognition call routing system on numerous occasions. I have talked to various agents with different versions of what the loan modification process really entails. I have been re-routed to the wrong department or individual at least 7 times. I have been disconnected from helpful individuals, such as a nice woman named Michella on 1/14/08 who, I was told, “has no extension” when I unsuccessfully tried to call her back. I have been told that the negotiator handling my loan is unavailable to speak to anyone via telephone. All of these calls are documented in your records, as they are in mine. The customer service provided to me has been less than adequate. Let this letter serve to document my request to have my communications responded to in a timely manner.

As well as keeping extensive personal records, I am documenting this process on a watchdog website called loansafe.org.

I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx whenever a customer service representative wishes to contact me. My email address is xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx, and is the best way to contact me.

I understand that under Section 6 of RESPA you are required to acknowledge my request within 20 business days and must try to resolve the issue within 60 business days.

Sincerely,



Stephanie x. xxxx

Good letter - great in fact. I do not know what to advise you on the payment front, I am always reluctant to do that, I do advise legal advice, and also it has been my opinion to make the payment, and make the demands i.e. QWR and Modification.

The payment issue is something that I tend to defer to Moe and Andrew on as they have far more experience in these matters as an ongoing relationship with the "problems" that they have assisted and been through.

So....Moe or Andrew in your court.

1% what I charge for origination....normal, usual and customary on residential real estate. There may be hidden fees, the YSP was sometimes buried...

3% on Commercial Real Estate - not exorbitant for commercial - harder to place, harder to whatever......so they do have some reasons there, they work hard, HAH, the underwriter at the other end does reprocessing the file does. Don't I know.

Without review I can not tell you if there were hidden fees and if this guy/gal was a banker.....well SRP does not have to show on the final HUD-1 - only the Brokers have to disclose the YSP - SRP and YSP are related but not the same thing....well yes and no. It is all money that you pay in one fashion or another to obtain that "great" rate and product you got.

[evel1999]

These negitive arms are sure not a good loan. It is very hard to get them to modify them and it is very hard for the homeowner to be able to afford the payment even if they can modify them.

Maybe if you have your loan documents reviewed and you have TIL and RESPA violations you could use some pressure and get them to reduce your principal balance and interest so that you can afford your payment when you get a loan modificaiton. It has been done and is not impossible.

You have a lot of decisions to make coming up in the future. Decide what is best for you and work on that.

I know the stress of how much time and energy this will take. I was under so much stress and like you, my husband was ready to just give up and move before I finally was able to get the loan modificaiton.

Weigh all areas and decide which way you want to go.

The RESPA Letter Request does work. I mentioned in mine that I had RESPA, TIL, Inflated appraisal and fraud when I received my loan. I seemed not to be able to get any where with ASC till I did write this letter. Then I got a response from them.

How are you doing? Just checking in the little rascal is now on a lead when I take her out to the back yard, I am to damn old to chase the little bugger for hours and hours......funny to the doggy world, not funny to the human world. I had a horse like that had to rope the toad to catch her every once in a while, great endurance mare, made her damn hard to catch......

[scbrvt]

Hi Poppy.
A lead is a good idea. They can be so obstinate sometimes, especially when it is most inconvenient for their humans.

I have had a rough couple of days. I posted this thread this morning. Toxic loan broker is a "friend." What to do?
And I can see this is not going to be good.

I am really at a loss about what to do. I also had an argument with one of my co-workers today, who is sort of my supervisor. She doesn't like one of the doctors at work, and is trying to put me in the middle of their bickering, which I don't want to be a part of.

And my car wouldn't start this morning, which sucks. I'm sure it's just rain in my engine. (Darn old air-cooled beetle.)

I just feel there isn't anyone to trust right now. Thanks for being there.
-Stephanie

Hair dryers, beetles respond well to hair dryers on damp, moist AM's, take it from an ol' 60's soul.

Agree with ***, wait. He is freaking because most likely there is most likely more the story than meets the eye......don't you love it when they show their hand. Like a daughter, excuse me but.....oops they do not have a gag smilie, damn. Better add one Moe. Here is what is possible, the Final HUD-1 that you have will not match what is at the Lender, not unheard of. Also could be the same, but there are cases, particularly with this Lender and their Broker relationships that the Final HUD-1 the borrower got and the "real" HUD-1 that the Lender has reflects the YSP differently. Additionally other documentation may have "differences" for want of better verbiage.

So, do not make a deal with the devil until you determine just what level that particular devil is on. First circle of hell or the seventh circle. I am a Lender, pure and simple have been one for over 30 years, regretfully I have seen things over the last 10 years that I could and would never have imagined in the industry. I am so embarrassed and angry, ergo, pseudonym and help where I can. Lend my observations to what is reported by folks and apply what I have seen done and hopefully solve some problems.

As for your co-worker sounds like she forgot her prerequisite meds a while back.

How are you doing.....please you all at the Country Wide debacle have you own forum thread now and section. Please let me know how you are faring.

[workinlossmit]

another tip.. is to hit "0" and then the # sign..

and some if you just hit 5 repeatedly that will help ya out.. sometimes its 9.... it all depends on what the dialer is programmed as a default to go to the next rep.... there is always a way.. just play with the phone...