16 Months trying for MHA, 3 letters to Office of CEO and President, now declined for invalid reason?

[trichert]

I really don't know what to do. I am so depressed about this ! Here is my story I shall try to keep just to the facts.

I filed for MHA in October of 2009 and was at the time told it would take 30 days to get our trial package. After a few dozen phone calls and 4 months roll by with no progress besides "resend your documentation" (which i would resend, call and verify they received then they would mysteriously lose all trace of ever having it again and were baffled by the multiple confirmations I had of them having received it).

Anyway so March of 2010 was the first time I contacted the office of the CEO and President and I was assigned to Felicia Plotkin who never called me, never answered any of my calls, and after a month of trying to reach her a rep tells me my file has been transfered to a Ryland Bowers. Now let me tell you, Ryland is a special kind of rep, in the 2 months he held my file he was off on vacation, sick or bereavement leave for 7 weeks (this is not an exageration).

Finnaly I again write Barbara's office on August 3rd (2010). I finnaly get my FIRST call EVER from someone at Bank of America who listens to my story and starts advocating for me (at least as far as I know, hes nice to me, returns my calls and sounds like hes trying to help me being this is BOA maybe hes just playing solitaire and repeating the same thing he tells everyone but never the less i am reinvigorated to have someone actually to talk to.) [Oh his name is Mark Turay]. So he pushes through my paperwork it is supposedly approved by underwriting then in investors hands everything looks good. Then 4 weeks of no news, then oh it didnt really pass underwriting its still there (and stays there for 4 months). Finnaly come December of 2010 I get frustrated and right Barbara's office for the third time.

The next day I again get a call from Mark that my file has been approved by underwriting and attaches me to another negotiater. This guys is also nice to me and sounds like he wants to help but a long story short another 2 months go by and I am finnaly told yesterday by the negotiator that QC has rejected my mod because they can't verify my hardship and that there is nothing to appeal my only option is apply for a standard mod.

This is BS. I lost two jobs, my income was cut in half and fully documented for them and verified by their underwriting department. No one can tell me what this means or why I can't appeal it. I was told I could submit a new application for MHA app but I can't hold on for another year.

This is beyond crazy. I meet every possible criteria for the program and have been told so by every person I've dealt with at BOA except some mysterious QC person. My mortgage + t/i is $1465 , I make a whopping $3200 / month (Gross) I used to make $92,000/year. I receive no federal/state aid of any kind. My loan is owned by Freddie.

How do I not qualify ? What can I do ? Help !

[Maurice Bedard]

If you pay your tax/ins seperately, they could have miscalculated. This has happened before.

In addition to that, if your monthly income exceeds your expenses, they can say that you can afford the mtg. If you are current, or less than 60 days late, the surplus, or if you have any savings can indicate that your hardship is not enough to qualify. If you reported any retirement accounts, they could have included those, even though they are not suppose to count them under HAMP.

If they erred on your current payment by not including tax/ins, you can appeal. If you were denied for any surplus or any savings, you can reapply. You do have more options than just an inhouse mod. Try calling 888-995-HOPE and ask for their help. They can make a 3 way call with your servicer to try to get an exact reason as to your denial. Tell them that without an exact reason, you can't verify if they have the right info in their files. The reps that HOPE sometimes gets hold of are sometimes able to get better access to your complete file.

If you make the call, and the servicer still doesn't respond, ask HOPE to escalate your case.

[trichert]

Thank you for the comments, I appreciate them !

I pay my t/i at the same time as my p/i. One payment to BoA per month for all of it.

No checking / savings, and definiately in the red as far as my income goes.

I am only 2 months behind and i've heard some people say you need to be 3 but that sounds absurd since BoA starts foreclosing at 3 ?

[Maurice Bedard]

If you were current when you first applied, that is how they judge you. If you have any equity, it is tougher to qualify.

But I suspect, from the comment that they made about verifying your hardship, is that they saw some savings at that point, or they made an error on your income. You do need to call the HOPE number and get a detailed explanation. So people have called that number, and the servicers rep found a simple error, and the person got a trial offer within days. If they have bad info in your file, it is almost impossible to correct it, and sometimes it is easier to start over. If you do start over, you need to tell them to completely close out your current request for help.

I think something went wrong over a year ago, and all the updated docs did nothing because it is hard to change HAMP income info. A lot of people had success just by starting from scratch.

[ginnywilcox]

I was denied twice, not by BofA but by PNC. Anyway, I called them on their B.S. wrote my congressman, and the OCC. Then suddenly they said, oh! let us recheck our numbers and open your file again. I finally got approved 14 months later (and I was not late...it is not a requirement for HAMP). I just think you have to keep pushing even though they say no. I would keep quoting the HAMP info back to them...they would say...you got denied because of blah blah....and I would say no.....that is not correct nor a requirement....another try....they would say..blah blah....and I would quote back...no...not per HAMP...I think once I got my congressman involved it really helped. Good luck! don't give up...I know it is hard...but you most likely qualify and they have no idea what they are doing.

[trichert]

Good Suggestion ! I just sent off a letter and privacy release to my Congresswoman. I don't expect anything but a Hail Mary is what I need so who knows !

[ginnywilcox]

Don't give up! Like I said.....they kept telling me no....and I knew I qualified...and they signed the agreement.....just keep pushing and hopefully it will work.....plus I read that when a congressman or congress woman calls they treat them very different...goes to supervisors immediately.....good luck and keep pushing!!! you know you qualify....there is no reason they can say no without you questioning them....have the rules on hand so you can quote back.

[trichert]

I thought I had heard everything .. I just got clarification on why my mod was denied. I quote (word for word !)

“The IDI Review group determines the hardship standards. Based upon their review it was determined that their hardship must be one of the 3 D’s…Death, Divorce or Disability. They declined the file.”

Are you kidding me? I have to get a divorce or have my wife die to qualify for MHA ? Where did they dig this up? Is this a legitamate reason to decline an otherwise qualified MHA mod? Advice ??

[Maurice Bedard]

If you are current and: have savings, a monthly budget surplus, or both, this could be true, but I thought there were 4 possible reasons, not three. IDI is "Imminent default indicator" and I think freddie mac website defines it. Here is quote from the HAMP handbook( www.hmpadmin.com )

4.4 Reasonably Foreseeable or Imminent Default

A borrower that is current or has only one payment due and unpaid by the end of the month in
which it is due and who contacts the servicer to request HAMP consideration must be evaluated
to determine if he or she is at risk of imminent default. Each servicer must have written standards
for determining imminent default that are consistent with applicable contractual agreements and
accounting standards and must apply the standards equally to all borrowers.
When making an imminent default determination, the servicer must evaluate the borrower’s
hardship as well as the condition of and circumstances affecting the property securing the
mortgage loan. The servicer must consider the borrower’s financial condition, liquid assets,
liabilities, combined monthly income from wages and all other identified sources of income,
monthly obligations (including personal debts, revolving accounts, and installment loans), and a
reasonable allowance for living expenses such as food, utilities, etc. The hardship and financial
condition of the borrower must be verified through documentation.
A servicer must document in its servicing system and/or mortgage file the basis for its
determination that a payment default is imminent and retain all documentation used to reach this

conclusion.

[Maurice Bedard]

I thought there were 4 reasons, but that may be up to the servicers discretion. "IDI" means 'imminent default indicator' and you must pass that test if you are current(less than two payments behind) and: have any savings, or a monthly budget surplus, or some combination of a surplus and savings. If you reported retirement plan savings, they may have erred in using those. Retirement savings are not to be used to determine eligibility for HAMP and you should not have reported them.

Freddie mac used to have a definition of imminent default on their website and a formula, but now they have given the servicer a lot of leeway in determining imminent default. The need to pass this test if you are less than two payments behind is why it is easier to qualify if you are ALREADY two payments behind. If you became 2 payments behind during your trial, or since you applied, you can reapply again. They base qualifying on info from the date you applied, and won't change that info without a new application. Here is a quote from the HAMP handbook ( www.hmpadmin.com )

4.4 Reasonably Foreseeable or Imminent Default
A borrower that is current or has only one payment due and unpaid by the end of the month in
which it is due and who contacts the servicer to request HAMP consideration must be evaluated
to determine if he or she is at risk of imminent default. Each servicer must have written standards
for determining imminent default that are consistent with applicable contractual agreements and
accounting standards and must apply the standards equally to all borrowers.
When making an imminent default determination, the servicer must evaluate the borrower’s
hardship as well as the condition of and circumstances affecting the property securing the
mortgage loan. The servicer must consider the borrower’s financial condition, liquid assets,
liabilities, combined monthly income from wages and all other identified sources of income,
monthly obligations (including personal debts, revolving accounts, and installment loans), and a
reasonable allowance for living expenses such as food, utilities, etc. The hardship and financial
condition of the borrower must be verified through documentation.
A servicer must document in its servicing system and/or mortgage file the basis for its
determination that a payment default is imminent and retain all documentation used to reach this

conclusion.


First post said it wasn't accepted.

[trichert]

I am two payments behind .. and was two payments behind when I filed. At various points since I filed i've been 3-4 payments behind.

The day they declined my file I happened to be 50 days behind (i.e. right now I owe Jan and Feb with payment due dates of the 1st so in one week I will owe 3 payments).

They have my documentation showing I took a 50% paycut, they know I've gone through BK, they have my budget showing I can't afford my current payment (but COULD afford the proposed mod'd payment my negotiator told me about). I would seem to be a shoe in for the program but I'm not late enough ? Really ?

[Maurice Bedard]

At the beginning of HAMP, the late definition was 30 days. But so many people were wiling to go thirty days, that it was extended to at least 60 days. And the thing is, if you are 60 days late when you apply, and you make a payment within another 30 days, you are back to less than 60 days late. You almost have to really be 90 days late, and face the extra fees they can charge, and face foreclosure fees, to avoid the imminent default test.

I had $0 savings, $200 in my checking, and my income was about $900 less than my minimum expenses, but I was current on my mtg, so I passed the imminent default test and qualified for the trial. It is possible to qualify when current, but you really need to be having financial problems.