Health Care Bill: Pay $15,000 Premium or Go to Jail!

[Moe Bedard]

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

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“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

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“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016

[ohhhdear]

This doesn't surprise me at all that our lawmakers would do this.

It's all about the money $$$$$$$$$$.

There's an old saying: "If you want to get rich, build a prison".

I couldn't believe that and finally got myself educated about how various corporations get rich when people are incarcerated.

My Sources: The stock market on private prisons.

And a book called:
The Perpetual Prisoner Machine: How America Profits from Crime by Joel Dyer.

[Moe Bedard]

They went from having their tentacles in our home and loans to now having them in our veins. Look what the government has done to help you all with the foreclosure crisis. Then look at Hurricane Katrina. Now, parlay this disservice to health care and you now know where our country and your health care is heading.

States and the feds share in prison profits. Now, it looks like they have a sure fire way to fill up those FEMA camps and or reduce our population involuntarily.

My guess is that we are heading to the darkest times in US history.

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[cleach]

Moe, I totally agree.

What I'd like to know is: if I can't afford health insurance (I can't), how can I afford a penalty of $15,000 which is half my salary.

Guess I'll be in jail, folks - as will my husband. Who is going to take care of my kids?

This is absolutely ridiculous!!! Now that the American public is waking up to what has been done by electing Obama IT'S TOO LATE!

[Garry]

I watched the house health care bill pass on c-span last night, the process was interesting. This is one of the last three steps on passing health care. The senate still has to pass their final bill and then they will take the house and senate bill and combine them as one with the best parts of each bill. After they combine the bills and make it one, it will go to a final vote. If it passes the President will sign it and it's a done deal.

[Garry]

Originally Posted by cleach

Moe, I totally agree.

What I'd like to know is: if I can't afford health insurance (I can't), how can I afford a penalty of $15,000 which is half my salary.

Guess I'll be in jail, folks - as will my husband. Who is going to take care of my kids?

This is absolutely ridiculous!!! Now that the American public is waking up to what has been done by electing Obama IT'S TOO LATE!

What people aren't telling you is that they will put you on the public option if you have no insurance, you won't even have to ask. This makes the fines and penalties irrelevant.

[Garry]

Health care reform is scary, any kind of change usually is. What we have to realize is that it is absolutely necessary and should have been done a long time ago. We can't find full-time jobs because employers can't afford to insure us and still be competative, not to mention the greed factor. This is a big part of the reason a lot of our jobs have gone over-seas. The only way to bring the jobs back is to pass health care reform.

[caldwellb02]

Garry - I agree. And this bill will get changed by the Senate - you can bet. The public option or something like it has got to be included. I'm lucky to have health care at my job, but I pay $800 a year to get my 23 year old son a catastrophic policy that has a $5,000 deductible. We tried to get him on medi-cal and that was a joke. He broke his wrist last year and I'm still paying that bill off.

I really hate scare tactics. Much as I love ya Moe, sometimes it's just too much. I'm stressed enough as it is.

[Moe Bedard]

It is passed Garry (meaning there is no stopping it) and that was one of the big reasons Obama came into power. It is a bail out of the insurance industry, Medicare etc in one fell swoop. Health care would have imploded in the next 3-5 years. This solves that HUGE elephant in the US room.

Now we have the government in health care, our mail, our money with banks, our homes with Fannie Mae rent backs, slavery with our prisons.

The people (all of us) are now almost under 100% complete control.

Next is the Copenhagen Treaty and the US as we know it is now under the New World Order. With the patriot act, this health care bill and the Green Treaty in Copenhagen coming in December, we are now entering the darkest times in the history of our nation.

Here is how our lives on Main Street America will now work in a plain vanilla nut shell. These are my predictions.

1. You will either be on social welfare and get free health care and food. Many will choose this option because they realize that work is just a form slavery and social welfare is freedom. This same group will fill our prisons and join the military.

2. If you are lucky to have a job or business and be on of the few who can live freely, but will be taxed up to 50% of your income to pay for #1. The uber rich will avoid these taxes and the millionaires and those that work for the .Gov will not. If you choose to not pay you will go to jail. After a few examples are made & people sent to prison, people will comply and pay. Many in #2 will move to #1 group by force or depression.

3. Health Care, war, and prison industry will be the #1 economic drivers for the US from here on out. They all work hand and hand.

4. There will be a war on US shores. Either a foreign invasion, nuclear or a revolution to help curtail the US population and dependency on welfare and an economy that is now defunct. There is no other cure but death.

5. This will cause world war III and thus take care of population issues across the world.

[Moe Bedard]

Caldwell, scare tactics? You have got to be kidding me. I am not hear to scare, but make people aware of what they do not know or see on their TVs or their news that they think is news like Fox, CNN or Huffing ton Chase Bank owned blog

Most all your jobs will be gone in the next couple years and there will be no public options left. Obviously the government knows this and more things than they tell us, right? To think that with our economy is imploding at a rapid pace by the second and to think your run of the mill health care policy is going to be just fine or there next year is just plain foolish.

You wil have no option for much anything soon if you keep up that foolish thinking. No home, health care or job.

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Bill Clinton is asked about Concentration camps (clean)

Bill Clinton is asked about Concentration camps... (more)
Added: August 31, 2006
Bill Clinton is asked about Concentration camps in the USA, he doesn't deny them, but laughs and says "we need to work together" etc

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Maybe you can get a job here putting us all in prison?????

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Job Description

[davephx]

I am so sick and tired of the outright lies and distortions about the HC bill. If folks are going to argue for or against it maybe they should at least be honest enough to get the facts right!

I do not agree with some of the House bill which should be corrected in the Senate but lets at least be honest (hard for the Republicans with all the insurance money pouring in to fight it) when discussing it.

The $15,000 or go to jail total nonsense"

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income.

A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

The CBO analysis also says: Although premiums under H.R. 3962 would vary by geographic area to reflect differences in average spending for health care and would also vary by age, the table shows the approximate national average for that lower-cost reference plan-about $5,300 for single policies and about $15,000 for family policies in 2016." Thus, not everyone will have to "buy a $15,000 policy".

There are many exceptions:
Section 501 of the bill provides that an individual must be "covered by acceptable coverage at all times." "Acceptable coverage" includes "qualified health benefits plan coverage," "grandfathered health insurance coverage," "Medicare," "Medicaid," coverage provided to members of the armed forces and their dependants, "coverage under the veteran's health care program," people who receive health care "through the Indian Health Service," or other coverage deemed acceptable by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If a person does not have acceptable health care coverage, Section 501 imposes a tax on that person "not to exceed the applicable national average premium".

"Hardship cases" are exempted from the tax. From Section 501(f):

(f) REGULATIONS.-The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance (developed in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner) which provide-
(2) a waiver of the application of subsection (a) in cases of hardship, including a process for applying for such a waiver.

Go to Jail:
The bill does not impose criminal penalties on people merely for failing to purchase health insurance; rather, people who do not buy health insurance and also willfully refuse to pay the tax imposed on them for such actions can face civil or criminal penalties just like anyone who refuses to pay their taxes.

Sec. 341. Availability through Health Insurance Exchange. Creates affordability credits to ensure that people with incomes up to 400% of federal poverty have affordable health coverage. These credits are phased out according to a schedule defined in the act as individual and family incomes up to 400% of poverty and the credits apply only to Exchange-participating plans. Affordability credits reduce the costs of both premium and annual out-of-pocket spending. Individuals apply through the Commissioner or Health Insurance Exchange for the credits, or through other entities approved by the Commissioner. The Commissioner, through an agreement with the Commissioner of Social Security, must conduct a verification process to confirm citizenship or lawful presence in the United States before any individual is eligible for affordability credits. In the first two years, affordability credits can only be used to purchase a basic plan. After that, the Commissioner establishes a process to allow them to be used for enhanced and premium plans in a way that makes clear the individuals who select those options will be responsible for any difference in costs. [House tri-committee summary, 11/2/09]

[Moe Bedard]

Want Proof Foreign troops here on US shores and that FEMA camps are not for helping us, but imprisoning us. Watch.

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[Moe Bedard]

Dave works for the government......

[Moe Bedard]

Read this document/attachment to this comment called Operation Garden Plot if you want to see the future of the US. It is going to happen sooner or later. If you do not bother reading or educating yourself, than please do not comment about I am using scare tactics, fear mongering etc. and go back to getting involved in the biggest US conspiracy and joke EVER, the loan modification.

I heard the government was gonna help you all by placing you in these nice camps for free.......3 hots and a kot with no worries about a mortgage. This is all made up scare tactics and these documents are fake

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[Garry]

China's role in "the new building of the world"

[Garry]

It's all about world peace Moe, building the perfect world, the problem is our Government sold most of us out trying to achieve it. When they talk to me about the deficit and how much money we're spending, they can shove that shit right up their asses. We are in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan fighting, if it's ok to blow money we don't have on building a perfect world, don't talk to me about the deficit and doing things that would help our people. War is mortgaging our children, not health care.

[Garry]

They pray on our fear to promote building the perfect world, China is investing in Afghanistan while we are over there fighting. If we leave Afghanistan, other Countries are already preparing to step in, they are not going to piss away their investments. We are being played for suckers. The bail-out was never about us, it was about the rest of the worlds economy and building the perfect world, a world of one.

[Garry]

Here is the funny part, the next bail-out may actually be to help us, but we will fight it and screw our people over again. Why? Because we are fools. Our children and grand children are already screwed, it wasn't Obama that did this.

[Garry]

When I hear about us being the gate-keepers of the world, I really have to laugh. We can't even stop drugs from coming into our own country and destroying our people. There is so much corruption going on here it isn't even funny, we have no business even thinking about being the Military of the world.

[Moe Bedard]

Here is a more uplifting a video by a man in Washington who speaks the truth. Only if there were more men like Ron Paul Garry.

We have to promote peace and freedom. We cant let this BS continue and that is why I have started these new forums.

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[lennox]

I agree the health care system needs fixing, but I'm one who thinks it can be fixed without a major overhall.

What really angers me is right now the economy should be the issue first and foremost issue Congress and the administration should be focused on. Why doesn't Congress and this administration focus on the fire in front of the? HAMP was a great idea. But it's not working the way it was planned. If Treasury doesn't have enough staff or whatever to make sure HAMP is running smoothly; why are they even talking about another major program? Before taking on another major major issue....fix the problem we're facing now.

Unemployment is over 10% and the underemployed or people not collecting unemployment is at 17%. That's 1 in 10 people that don't have a job. That means more people will lose their homes. That means the housing market will continue to go down. If the government can help get the housing market turned around; I truly believe jobs will start to rebound. High paying jobs like electricians, plumbers, carpenters would start coming back...and they'd have money to spend and put back into the economy and the upward cycle returns.

The mortgage crisis and employment should be front and center. Skip health care for now. It is just so unfair to the people that are unemployed or the people loosing their homes that the government isn't focusing on this as the primary issue.

And if the government oversees health care as good as they're overseeing HAMP....then God help us all ( :

[Garry]

Congress doesn't live in our world, they live in never-never land. Our lives are being snatched out from under us as they sit on their happy little asses.

[Garry]

When we see their children start to suffer, then we will see them snap into action.

[davephx]

What fix would you not do in overhaul
Denial of claims since costs insurance co too much
Not available for pre-existing conditions.
Not affordable for many and premiums rapidly rising.
Reduce the govt cost per COB numbers and be deficit neutral.
Reduce the cost (this is where govt option so badly needed.

Not sure what you want to not do.

I bet if government RAN HAMP instead of the servicers and investors we would get far more mods.

Just like in Medicare docs almost never turned down for what is needed for the patient, while constant fight with insurance companies.

Insurance companies pay millions to zillions of layers of exces and huge profits for the corporations (to hire all those lobbysits so the Republicans make lies so the big insurance companies will continue to be in control with all their huge costs.

Frankly I trust govenment to control health care far more than insurance companies just like government is TRYING via Treasury to shame servicers by reporting requirements to comply since that is all htey can do.

Big Bad Government does a lot of things for Citizens that makes far more sense that the huge costs of private industry but only when it comes to things related to the common good like Healthcare.

Private insurance has ruined healhcare. WE pay far more than most anywhere in the world and are less healhty than most countries where government provides HC.

Not perfect but far better than the mess insurance companies are responsible for.

Congress (especially Republicans) live in the world of the big corporations especially insurance companies not our world. That is why they are so desperately and despicably by lies and distortions making sure we don't have better health care at a lower cost for All Americans since that hurts the insurance companies.

[Garry]

I agree with most of what you're saying Dave, especially the part about the Gov running HAMP. What pisses me off is that the Dems let the banks run it. That's like saying we want to appear to be helping, but we know the banks will put a stop to this, after all, they did such a righteous job for Bush with H4H.