Trust Issues re: Citi HAMP

[ChocChip]

Hi everyone! Brand new here and have been scouring this board for help. I'll try to be concise with my questions but no promises with this crazy mortgage game ya know how it is

1. CitiMortgage and I are at an impasse. I say, "SHOW ME THE DOCUMENTS that will spell out the fine print and terms and conditions on the Obama Home Affordable Mortgage Program (HAMP)." But they say, over several months, "Don't worry the documents are coming, any day now...any day now...(repeat endlessly but no documents EVER arrive" How do other people handle this?

2. In the meantime I have been sending my full amount of my mortgage to the USUAL address rather than sending a reduced amount to the Loss Mitigation folks' special address. How do other people handle this one!?

3. My US Senator's office actually sent a note to CitiMortgage about my complaint. Has anyone else done this--and has it helped?

4. Is it a reasonable assumption to assume nothing but treachery and deceit from CitiMortgage? What is their motivation? Are they truly as twisted as many are saying?

P.S. folks, CitiMortgage has accepted BILLIONS from We the People. See Mike Moore's new *****, "Capitalism, a Love Story," it's entertaining and Citi even plays a role in the *****! !

Thanks everyone
ChocChip

[Evan Bedard]

Hi Chocchip welcome and thank you for joining.

1. CitiMortgage and I are at an impasse. I say, "SHOW ME THE DOCUMENTS that will spell out the fine print and terms and conditions on the Obama Home Affordable Mortgage Program (HAMP)." But they say, over several months, "Don't worry the documents are coming, any day now...any day now...(repeat endlessly but no documents EVER arrive" How do other people handle this?

Never start paying on the trial until you receive the paperwork first. No agreement is valid until you receive the docs, sign them, and send them back to your lender..

2. In the meantime I have been sending my full amount of my mortgage to the USUAL address rather than sending a reduced amount to the Loss Mitigation folks' special address. How do other people handle this one!?

Most borrowers will stop making their monthly payments while waiting for the paperwork. Make sure to not start paying on the lowered amount until you receive the docs.

3. My US Senator's office actually sent a note to CitiMortgage about my complaint. Has anyone else done this--and has it helped?

Yes this can definitely help make Citi push your case along faster.

4. Is it a reasonable assumption to assume nothing but treachery and deceit from CitiMortgage? What is their motivation? Are they truly as twisted as many are saying?

Pretty much every lender is completely overwhlemed with modification requests making the process much more difficult to complete.

[PRandall]

I have been waiting for my documents too. I told dear old Hubert that I was not going to send a payment until I received documentation. My first payment was supposed to be due Oct 31, no paperwork, no payment. So, then he extended due date to mid November...but I told him I didn't want to have to pay til December 1st and ONLY if I have received paperwork. Still waiting... Just talked to him a moment ago and nothing new to report.

I don't trust them either. I haven't done the Senator letter thing. Is there a format for one? I am too tired to come up with one on my own...This whole process is WAY TOO long.

Good Luck.

I am tempted to draft up my own paperwork, with my OWN terms and send it to Hubert to sign

[ChocChip]

Thanks Evan and PRandall!

1) I was suspicious that Citimortgage INSISTED that I cancel my automatic checking account deductions in order for the trial to commence. People, does this make ANY sense if they want to make sure you pay on time? Plus I'm spending $5.80 for certified return receipt now which is crazy.

2) Evan - on my web site account the payments show up, but the latest one does not show as a "payment." It shows as "additional funds received." Should I make them change it all back to "payment" as usual?

I don't understand CitiMortgage's distinction between these two terms for money I've sent them.

[ChocChip]

I have been waiting for my documents too. I told dear old Hubert that I was not going to send a payment until I received documentation. My first payment was supposed to be due Oct 31, no paperwork, no payment. So, then he extended due date to mid November...but I told him I didn't want to have to pay til December 1st and ONLY if I have received paperwork. Still waiting... Just talked to him a moment ago and nothing new to report.

I don't trust them either. I haven't done the Senator letter thing. Is there a format for one? I am too tired to come up with one on my own...This whole process is WAY TOO long.

Good Luck.

I am tempted to draft up my own paperwork, with my OWN terms and send it to Hubert to sign

My advice is to look at your senator's web site first, they have a confidentiality form. You fill out that form and attach it to your letter of complaint. Just write your senator Citi's accepted billions but is not following the guidelines for a federal program. You'll first get a form letter back from your senator and that's the start w/him or her.

Next call the office and ask to speak to one of the assistants about your case. If you are clear about the problem you can get them to contact Citi for you. Can't hurt. Let us know what happens!

btw HOW many months have you been waiting for paperwork on the ham?

[abcxyz]

Hi Chocchip welcome and thank you for joining.



Never start paying on the trial until you receive the paperwork first. No agreement is valid until you receive the docs, sign them, and send them back to your lender..



Most borrowers will stop making their monthly payments while waiting for the paperwork. Make sure to not start paying on the lowered amount until you receive the docs.



Yes this can definitely help make Citi push your case along faster.



Pretty much every lender is completely overwhlemed with modification requests making the process much more difficult to complete.

Never start paying on the trial until you receive the paperwork first. No agreement is valid until you receive the docs, sign them, and send them back to your lender..

Most borrowers will stop making their monthly payments while waiting for the paperwork. Make sure to not start paying on the lowered amount until you receive the docs.

I have to disagree with these two statements. I never received any paperwork from the time I was VERBALLY approved on the phone for 5 months, but i was making my lower trial period payments, of which I made 5 before I received any paperwork.

To me, I followed their rules and did what they asked me to do, not what I wanted them to do (i.e., receive paperwork before making lowe payments). I think if an individual is going to try and fight this according to their own terms and not the lender's terms, they will have more trouble and delays.

What is the harm in paying a lower payment when they've verbally approved you for the lower payment? You're not losing any money or anything. If you continue to make the original payment, they might think you can continue to afford it, so why modify you? Also, being that Chocochip's last payment (even though it was the original higher amount) went to Unapplied funds, means they've started the trial period for him and that payment was the first in his trial period, so i would start making the lower payment if I were him, otherwise like i said, they're going to think he can afford the higher payment, which does not show any 'hardship.'

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. By the way, I have a permanent modification, so I'm just speaking from my own experience. I know there's 3 or 4 others that are permanent now too, so I am curious how they proceeded if it was in the same manner as me, or if they waited for documents before making the lower payment, or something else...

[ChocChip]

Thanks xyz!

Like I told the guy at CitiMortgage "Just because I can make the higher payment by using my Visa card doesn't mean I can truly afford the higher amount!"

I am thinking the best middle ground is to continue to send them the normal payment with a letter of explanation each time? Explaining why I'm sending the higher amount although I cannot afford it?

But this is interesting. Two schools of thought here!

thanks again.

P.S> Hey xyz: did they ruin your credit rating from the lower pmts during the trial period? GTK!

[abcxyz]

Thanks xyz!

Like I told the guy at CitiMortgage "Just because I can make the higher payment by using my Visa card doesn't mean I can truly afford the higher amount!"

I am thinking the best middle ground is to continue to send them the normal payment with a letter of explanation each time? Explaining why I'm sending the higher amount although I cannot afford it?

But this is interesting. Two schools of thought here!

thanks again.

P.S> Hey xyz: did they ruin your credit rating from the lower pmts during the trial period? GTK!

I don't think they are going to 'care' about any letter you send in with your payment. They are already overwhelmed and probably won't even read it. My opinion is if you keep sending your original payment, it looks like you can afford it, whether you're putting it on your visa or not. Up to you though.

Yes, my credit dropped over 100points. It's ok with me though, I'd much rather have the modification and a lower credit score, than a high score and no modification. You can always build back up your score. I think they reported something wrong too, so I'm trying to get that correct now...

[ChocChip]

Thanks abcxyz. It's really a trust issue imho. I simply don't trust them enough to pay lower amounts, mess up my credit rating--all on the verbal, over-the-phone handshake.

For example: CitiMortgage won't do automatic checking deductions during the trial period. That just strikes me as really strange--and it doesn't pass the smell test.

O me of little faith?

[concernedva]

Thanks abcxyz. It's really a trust issue imho. I simply don't trust them enough to pay lower amounts, mess up my credit rating--all on the verbal, over-the-phone handshake.

For example: CitiMortgage won't do automatic checking deductions during the trial period. That just strikes me as really strange--and it doesn't pass the smell test.

O me of little faith?

Yes they do make automatic checking deductions during the trial period.

[ChocChip]

Yes they do make automatic checking deductions during the trial period.

I was told by a supervisor in Loss Mitigation that this was simply not possible...

[nativelasvegan]

abcxyz - I will not make any payment pursuant to a verbal agreement. So I do agree with Evan. If my bank tells me they will "let" me pay an amount different than what is provided for in loan documents, I will need to see that in writing. Either way, partial payments whether sent in pursuant to a verbal or written agreement go into a suspense account. After enough money from a borrower is received, the payment is applied to the payment amount that is in the original loan documents. I chose to make mortgage payments by borrowing from credit cards too. I have read a lot of stories here where people have also borrowed from credit cards to pay mortgage and now they are not qualified for HAMP for one reason or another and not only in default on their mortgage but their credit cards are maxed out.

I am really happy your situation turned out and that you were able to get your permanent modification. Some of us may end up in court before this is all over. I believe it will be difficult to prove we had a "verbal" agreement with the bank. According to the statute of frauds, I would prefer anything between me and the banks to be in writing.

[AZOwner]

I wrote to the state AG office, and my state reps. BofA immediately assigned a "negotiator".

Waited a week before they called, gave them my conditions in order to continue dealing with BofA, and they indicated a Manager would call me back.



I am waiting for my NOF.

Thank you all for posting. We have a larger initiative going on to provide the American Homeowner a voice to get the system in some kind of order.

Please, Please, go to the Huffington article and post a message to the article, link above. We need to bring this fight back to the forefront. If you won't sign the petition, please leave a note at Huffington. Highlight some of your challenges with the issues.

Together we can make a BIG difference, individually we are a drop in the bucket.

Thank you.

Here are links to both.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richar..._b_342665.html

http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2564/petition-to-us-government-from-american-homeowners/

[abcxyz]

abcxyz - I will not make any payment pursuant to a verbal agreement. So I do agree with Evan. If my bank tells me they will "let" me pay an amount different than what is provided for in loan documents, I will need to see that in writing. Either way, partial payments whether sent in pursuant to a verbal or written agreement go into a suspense account. After enough money from a borrower is received, the payment is applied to the payment amount that is in the original loan documents. I chose to make mortgage payments by borrowing from credit cards too. I have read a lot of stories here where people have also borrowed from credit cards to pay mortgage and now they are not qualified for HAMP for one reason or another and not only in default on their mortgage but their credit cards are maxed out.

I am really happy your situation turned out and that you were able to get your permanent modification. Some of us may end up in court before this is all over. I believe it will be difficult to prove we had a "verbal" agreement with the bank. According to the statute of frauds, I would prefer anything between me and the banks to be in writing.

Yeah, that's fine too, to each their own I suppose. In response to your post though, just the fact that Chocochip's 'first' payment (even though it was the original amount) went to unapplied funds, I believe that will already negatively impact his/her credit report. Why? Just the fact that it went to unapplied funds means they're classifying his payment as on the trial period. Even though he didn't 'short pay' this first payment, it's on the trial period which is report to the credit bureaus as "Current but on payment agreement plan" or something to that effect. To my knowledge, that 'derogatory' comment already reduces the score, so it looks like no one will 'win' regarding their credit score. As long as you're trying for a modification, expect your score to go down because it will...

Also, how many people have actually waited to receive the paperwork before making the trial payments, and how long did it take? -- this is a question, i'm curious about. For mine, it took me 5 months to get the first set of paperwork. If I didn't make trial payments during those 5 months, I think my first trial payment would have started when I rec'd the paperwork 5 months later, so I'd have to make at least 3 more months of trial payments to show that I can make those payments on time, and then that would have extended my process out to at least 8 months. Being that I paid the trial payments during those 5 months i waited, even though my documents said that my 1st trial payment begins Nov 1, and last one on Jan 1, they saw I made 5 trial payments earlier, so I didn't have to wait until Jan. They immediately processed my documents.

So...if a person's credit score is already going to go down (assuming I'm correct about the derogatory comment that the lender reports), then why not just go with it and do what they ask... sure it's hard to trust them and they WILL screw up your file more than once during the process, I probably talked to more than 50 different reps throughout my process. They make notes in their computer and I always asked them to read the prior notes and read it to me, so I knew the previous rep entered it correctly. Anyway, that's just what i think...

So what's your case, are you still waiting for paperwork and when did they first 'verbally' approve you?

[davephx]

Also, how many people have actually waited to receive the paperwork before making the trial payments, and how long did it take? -- this is a question, i'm curious about. For mine, it took me 5 months to get the first set of paperwork. If I didn't make trial payments during those 5 months, I think my first trial payment would have started when I rec'd the paperwork 5 months later, so I'd have to make at least 3 more months of trial payments to show that I can make those payments on time, and then that would have extended my process out to at least 8 months. Being that I paid the trial payments during those 5 months i waited, even though my documents said that my 1st trial payment begins Nov 1, and last one on Jan 1, they saw I made 5 trial payments earlier, so I didn't have to wait until Jan. They immediately processed my documents.

So...if a person's credit score is already going to go down (assuming I'm correct about the derogatory comment that the lender reports), then why not just go with it and do what they ask... sure it's hard to trust them and they WILL screw up your file more than once during the process, I probably talked to more than 50 different reps throughout my process. They make notes in their computer and I always asked them to read the prior notes and read it to me, so I knew the previous rep entered it correctly. Anyway, that's just what i think...

So what's your case, are you still waiting for paperwork and when did they first 'verbally' approve you?

And some of us in foreclosure had no choice but to get on the trial.

My case similar, didn't get Trail Mod docs till 3 payments in than reset up on another 3 pay starting Nov 1st. But I was told it was because they are so behind they restarted everyone or most "in process"

Again I was told no final papers the ones you have notarized till after January 3rd (again) payment. But abcxyz got sooner so I am hoping I will also.

[davephx]

3. My US Senator's office actually sent a note to CitiMortgage about my complaint. Has anyone else done this--and has it helped?

4. Is it a reasonable assumption to assume nothing but treachery and deceit from CitiMortgage? What is their motivation? Are they truly as twisted as many are saying?

I contacted in AZ McCain and Kyle. McCain sent short letter refereed to the OO?? The ones that oversee banks but no direct help. Don't think I ever heard from Kyle. In talking by phone to McCain office they had me fax my story to them saying they would forward to Washington office.

Others have reported more direct help by Congress people.

The BOA situation is unique to BOA with the AG settlement.

[ChocChip]

Thanks everyone for all the information. Bottom line: the decision to "trust" the lender on these matters is a personal decision I guess...

One more question: is anyone involved in a trial period/Hamp able to pay automatically via a checking account deduction each month? My lender (Citimortgage the Great Oz Behind the Curtain) said absolutely not.

this creates the fear-of-being-late at my house.
Thanks,
ChocChip

[langlang]

I can't believe it's taking so long for everyone to get their paperwork.

When I was approved, I made my first payment over the phone with Sergio on the Executive Response Team. I went ahead and did it before getting the paperwork, because the Exec Response Team had been really good (as opposed to the regular channels I had tried until then), and I figured there would be a record of my payment in their system, that is was for the trial payment plan, etc.

I ended up getting my paperwork I think a couple of weeks later, so it worked out fine either way. I don't know if making that first trial payment over the phone right there and then could possibly accelerate the process, or if they've just gotten slower since the summer.

I do understand the reasoning behind NOT making a trial payment until you have paperwork. But to be honest, the contract is only 3-4 pages in relatively large print, and is no guarantee anyway that you will get a mod after the trial period. So it's not like you're going to get any sort of ironclad confirmation of anything one way or the other in the paperwork (IIRC).

[langlang]

Thanks everyone for all the information. Bottom line: the decision to "trust" the lender on these matters is a personal decision I guess...

One more question: is anyone involved in a trial period/Hamp able to pay automatically via a checking account deduction each month? My lender (Citimortgage the Great Oz Behind the Curtain) said absolutely not.

this creates the fear-of-being-late at my house.
Thanks,
ChocChip

I don't do that, I just call in sometime around the 25th-26th and make a payment over the phone. To be honest that gives me more security than automated, because I get a confirmation number and know right then that my payment is in their system.

[mogojo13]

Thanks for the post you are smart to not trust them even if they send you the docs and you go through the trial. We were not late on our mortgage until we listened to Citi. Please make sure that you show all of your income as they use a YTD calculation. Do not leave out any one time bonuses.