Can Citi do this to us?

[mzpdoff]

Hi everybody! I have been reading through this forum and see that some are in the same boat as us. I am hoping someone can help us or guide us to some help - we seriously need it.

About 8 months ago we contacted Citi regarding a loan mod and after a long back and forth we agreed to the 3 month trial payments under a new interest rate and lower payment. The 3 month trial period turned into a 6 month trial period. All that time we were told and promised that our interest rate would stay at this new rate and that our monthly payment would be the same as our monthly trial payment in this trail period.
Last week Wednesday we called in to make yet another payment and were told that our modification was approved and that we should receive the paperwork in a couple days and to sign asap and return. We were told that our new monthly payment would be 1073.73 and interest rate would be 3.5%
Well when we got the paperwork it was a complete 180 turn and our new modified payments are now higher than our original monthly payment! Now they are wanting 1473.67 with an interest rate of 7%
We called tonight and were told that ( all of a sudden ) we don't qualify because my husband makes over 31% which is total crap! The monthly payment is over half of his monthly paycheck and they even said he was 900$ in the hole on a monthly basis and that he did qualify ...back when we started this whole fiasco! My husband even took a pay loss in order to keep his current job and they knew that and saw his pay stubs! How can they do this and is there anything we can do? We called and they just totally blew us off, told us to sign and not worry. WTH? We did everything we were told to do, send in all required paperwork and what...we were lied to this whole time?
Help? Anyone? Please!

[Evan Bedard]

Hi mzpdoff welcome and thank you for joining.

My husband even took a pay loss in order to keep his current job and they knew that and saw his pay stubs! How can they do this and is there anything we can do? We called and they just totally blew us off, told us to sign and not worry. WTH? We did everything we were told to do, send in all required paperwork and what...we were lied to this whole time?
Help? Anyone? Please!

Do not listen to them and sign the agreement because if you do you will be stuck with the 7% interest rate.. Try contacting this number and let them know what happened:

you can contact CitiMortgage at the number for LoanSafe members to begin the process of the modification...........
1-866-255-3901

[Big Booger]

Hi everybody! I have been reading through this forum and see that some are in the same boat as us. I am hoping someone can help us or guide us to some help - we seriously need it.

About 8 months ago we contacted Citi regarding a loan mod and after a long back and forth we agreed to the 3 month trial payments under a new interest rate and lower payment. The 3 month trial period turned into a 6 month trial period. All that time we were told and promised that our interest rate would stay at this new rate and that our monthly payment would be the same as our monthly trial payment in this trail period.
Last week Wednesday we called in to make yet another payment and were told that our modification was approved and that we should receive the paperwork in a couple days and to sign asap and return. We were told that our new monthly payment would be 1073.73 and interest rate would be 3.5%
Well when we got the paperwork it was a complete 180 turn and our new modified payments are now higher than our original monthly payment! Now they are wanting 1473.67 with an interest rate of 7%
We called tonight and were told that ( all of a sudden ) we don't qualify because my husband makes over 31% which is total crap! The monthly payment is over half of his monthly paycheck and they even said he was 900$ in the hole on a monthly basis and that he did qualify ...back when we started this whole fiasco! My husband even took a pay loss in order to keep his current job and they knew that and saw his pay stubs! How can they do this and is there anything we can do? We called and they just totally blew us off, told us to sign and not worry. WTH? We did everything we were told to do, send in all required paperwork and what...we were lied to this whole time?
Help? Anyone? Please!

Mz: First, welcome to the forum, you will find loads of information here and many willing to help you in your journey -

Unfortunately the way it stands now, the guidelines for the HAMP program have been set, but lenders are complying with bits and pieces of it. Since the program in and of it's self is voluntary, they can pretty much do as they see fit.

Now, that being said, you need to continue to call Citi in regards to your situation. If one rep tells you something different than what you were told to begin with, ask for a supervisor. Continue to call. Do not take what you have been told at face value. You may very well go thru 15 people before you get someone who is able to help you.

If the paperwork that you have recieved is not what you were quoted, do not sign, do not send payment. The object of the game is to continue to pursue them and not just take what has been given verbally. The right hand does not always know what the left is doing.

It is a very trying process, but if you continue with persistance your outcome may very well be a sucessful one.

Best wishes,
Booger

[mzpdoff]

Thank you so much, guys! My husband and I will call them again tomorrow. We are ready to fight. This just isn't right 'ya know! Shame on them!

[TIGERWOODSBUDDY]

Mz, don't give up. These forums were the best way for us to get our modification taken care of. I posted a story here on Success, success, success with Citi on our mod. If you go to that forum you will see the lengths we had to go to but finally accomplished our goal. See my reference to Donna West, loss mitigation specialist at Citi. She was the one person out of many that actually helped us. She did what she said she would do, always very helpful on the phone, and got our paperwork squared away in a timely, efficient, correct manner. Good luck. It is a struggle, but hopefully yours will turn out the right way.

[mzpdoff]

We did all of everything you did and up until we got the paperwork - were convinced that everything was going to work out. We were told we completed the trial period successfully and that our loan mod was approved and that we'd receive our paperwork in a couple of days. When we did receive the paperwork - everything went to hell! Everything in those papers is different from what they told us on the phone.
we're gonna call again tonight - sadly I cannot call because I am not on the mortgage and they refuse to talk to me! Even after my husband signed a release!

I'm happy things worked out for you however! )

[Evan Bedard]

sadly I cannot call because I am not on the mortgage and they refuse to talk to me! Even after my husband signed a release!

Thats strange because usually when the borrower signs a release for someone else to negotiate on the loan it works...

Good luck and keep us posted!

[mzpdoff]

yeah there is a lot of strange going on with Citi...and truth be told...it's probably better that I don't get to talk to them because I am at the point of no return

I'll update as soon as he gets home and talks to someone. Thank you!

[mzpdoff]

Ok so after a week of playing phone tag we just got off the phone with Terence Cochran and he basically told us there is NOTHING they can do!
I am beyond livid!
I think it's complete bs what they are doing.
So they are telling us we are current with our loan BUT we have to make the high payments. NOTHING they can do!

Any suggestions? Is getting a lawyer involved worth it? I just don't get how they can promise us a lower payment for months only to jack it up to where it's actual more than our original payment was. Plus the PMI has been cancelled and now we're getting calls from the PMI Insurance Company, too! How can the payment be higher when they cancelled the PMI?

[caldwell02]

mzpdoff - so you have never been in default? I don't work with Citi, but what would happen if you stopped paying? Are you willing to do that?

I thought the PMI is for the lender's sake - to secure them against a default. I don't think it does anything for the lender but raise your payments, but I could be wrong.

This one is a puzzle. And you need the experts - Evan? Moe?

[Sunbeam]

I would suggest writing directly to your congressperson about this. Also, contact the lender. Are you Freddie or Fannie? And of course NACA. Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome.

[SillyWorld]

I never been late with Citi....YET Turned down an offer with a balloon payment and thats the last I had contact with any of them...NACA or Citi everytime I call get nothing about whats going on Sick of waititng and waiting They want you to feel dont matter if you been up to date or been late they still gonna just ignore ya

[mzpdoff]

Ok after numerous attempts to get somewhere with this bs with citi we were again told that there is nothing they can do. The new payment is 50% of my husbands take home pay. No way can we make it!
So, what to do now? We contacted Diane west who just brushed us off and said our contact person is Terence Cochran who brushed us off as well stating - in a very snippy tone of voice I might add - that there is NOTHING they can do and to just sign the mod agreement and have it back to him asap.

I am at my wits end.

[agutter17]

I learned from my own mix up with Citi, they do not care about take home pay! It all has to do with your gross income!

[mzpdoff]

Well, we are not signing this loan mod agreement. Nothing in it is as we were told by Citi. PMI insurance company keeps calling stating they may be able to help us with a package? Don't know what that is all about. When we call back no one is ever around.

[Needanewjob]

I learned from my own mix up with Citi, they do not care about take home pay! It all has to do with your gross income!

Your exactly right. I work there and when applying someone for a loan mod I don't even enter the net income... 31 percent of a families gross income is considered an affordale mortgage..

I know that the trial period payment agreement is subject to change, it states that on the paperwork. When your qualified for a trial period your basically approved for a further look into your specific financial situation..

As far as the OP i haven't seen them change that drastically. Was the gross income provided correct?? I'm willing to bet your new higher payment includes and escrow account where they will pay taxes and insurance where you had to pay your own before. As far as the interest rate goes, they will drop it just enough to get to that 31 percent level..

If it really is an error in calculation then you would want to submit your request for a review via fax to the correspondance research dept. I believe it's 301-696-5431.

[mzpdoff]

Your exactly right. I work there and when applying someone for a loan mod I don't even enter the net income... 31 percent of a families gross income is considered an affordale mortgage..

I know that the trial period payment agreement is subject to change, it states that on the paperwork. When your qualified for a trial period your basically approved for a further look into your specific financial situation..

As far as the OP i haven't seen them change that drastically. Was the gross income provided correct?? I'm willing to bet your new higher payment includes and escrow account where they will pay taxes and insurance where you had to pay your own before. As far as the interest rate goes, they will drop it just enough to get to that 31 percent level..

If it really is an error in calculation then you would want to submit your request for a review via fax to the correspondance research dept. I believe it's 301-696-5431.

Ok I get all that but here is he deal...

1. never got any paperwork pertaining to our trial payment arrangement. Everything was done via phone - verbally. We were told that the new payment would be $1073.72 - no one ever said to us that it would go up. We were told by some guy by the name Armondo that it would be that exact amount if we make it through the trail period - which we did and they then jacked up he payments. Never got any paperwork pertaining to he trial payments from citi - we send in paperwork as requested to them.

2. No, we did no have to pay taxes and insurance on our own before his - it has always been included in our mortgage payment.

3. Yes, we provided all info correctly - they got all the paystubs, bank statements and other requested paperwork from us!

[davephx]

Likewise all by phone verbally but also had sent tons of stuff in before and after, but verbal putting on trial person didn't have. The initial Trail Agreement no longer needed just the big package after maybe 3 trials.

With the big package you have to reconfirm your income. If it changes more than may have to redo trial (if up) if down re-qualify NPV test as I recall.

31% of GROSS household income should be about 1073 which includes tax and insurance escrow.

Depending on your mortgage amount the 1073 minus taxes and insurance has to be enough to amortize at 2%/40 yrs. Sadly many folks don't have enough income to qualify to get to that point. Unless they do forbearances which are rare won't work under HAMP if your in that situation.

[Needanewjob]

Likewise all by phone verbally but also had sent tons of stuff in before and after, but verbal putting on trial person didn't have. The initial Trail Agreement no longer needed just the big package after maybe 3 trials.

With the big package you have to reconfirm your income. If it changes more than may have to redo trial (if up) if down re-qualify NPV test as I recall.

31% of GROSS household income should be about 1073 which includes tax and insurance escrow.

Depending on your mortgage amount the 1073 minus taxes and insurance has to be enough to amortize at 2%/40 yrs. Sadly many folks don't have enough income to qualify to get to that point. Unless they do forbearances which are rare won't work under HAMP if your in that situation.

That verbal will all be changing, which I find ashame, I thought it was great to get people started immediately on a lower payment.. For citi serviced loans which are also owned by citi we will be requiring income verification prior to starting the trial. We will actually do the underwriting first..

First step will be verbal acceptance based on income and expenses you provide. Then you will get a package to verify income. That will take 7 days to receive package. After income is verified another package will go out asking you to agree to the trial period.. Only after all of that will the trial period begin... After the trial period of 3 months only then will will it be submitted for final approval.. The whole process is going to get longer and more difficult.. Too many people being turned down based on verbally stated income..

For OP. I recommend the research fax number I gave you. You'll want it reviewed. The negotiators are for the most part former collection agents turned loan modifiers. THey don't have finance degrees, they make mistakes all the time. Make sure it's reviewed for accuracy. Doesn't sound right at all. Agent made an error saying that would be the exact payment, he doesn't know what he is doing. Was this new payment given to you after an escrow analysis?? I can't tell without looking at your account anyway. Good luck.

[davephx]

Needanewjob - Are you sure Citi is actually now sending the trail payment modification agreements initially? It was discontinued as a requirement early October per a HAMP directive but don't have the number in front of me. It was made optional not required.

Of course if verification was demanded earlier would be less of a problem with changes from the verbal trials given.

I'm on trial 3 and never received the initial letter after it was requested and re-requested about 12 times by mod folks in July, Aug, Sept. But I am clearly in the trial for HAMP without the agreement.

I assume the problem with the verbal trial amounts is it is not backed up by the final docs where it has to be verified. I assume if the verbal = verified the payment would stay "about" the same. mod folks have told me it can vary slightly but not by much if verbal = verified.

[Sunbeam]

Needanewjob, thanks for your posts, they are truly appreciated. Your insight is really valuable. I was put on a modified payment program w/o even knowing it! I had a applied for mod thru Citi in Feb and was denied and approved and denied and approved several times. I was finally assigned a negotiator after contacting my congressperson and Freddie Mac directly. My negotiator moved two of my payments out and put them into a special account w/o me knowing. Then the calls from collections started. But now, my negotiator has stopped those calls, the late fees are gone and she tells me I should be modified at around 4% (from 5.65% ARM). This is not a HAMP mod. Our 2nd and some unavoidable, unexpected expenses put us into danger.

Does this sound right? Thanks so much!

[davephx]

Needanewjob - Opps I missed you were talking about Citi inhouse mods requiring income verification first... My too fast reading....

[Needanewjob]

Needanewjob, thanks for your posts, they are truly appreciated. Your insight is really valuable. I was put on a modified payment program w/o even knowing it! I had a applied for mod thru Citi in Feb and was denied and approved and denied and approved several times. I was finally assigned a negotiator after contacting my congressperson and Freddie Mac directly. My negotiator moved two of my payments out and put them into a special account w/o me knowing. Then the calls from collections started. But now, my negotiator has stopped those calls, the late fees are gone and she tells me I should be modified at around 4% (from 5.65% ARM). This is not a HAMP mod. Our 2nd and some unavoidable, unexpected expenses put us into danger.

Does this sound right? Thanks so much!

Hi, sunbeam, sorry for the delay... It sounds good, as long as you aren't in anything with a balloon payment. Must be a traditional modification. Make sure that it's a fixed rate interest rate loan.. When you have an actual negotiator or Loss mitt specialist 3 you are in pretty good hands.. Good job getting your congressman involved and freddie mac, you will probably get assistance. My problem is that there are a lot of people that aren't going to get help because they are not as resourceful as yourself.. The special account you are speaking about is just "unapplied funds" it's where all funds go that aren't your normal mortgage payment. Please let me know how it goes? Investor Fannie??

[Needanewjob]

Needanewjob - Opps I missed you were talking about Citi inhouse mods requiring income verification first... My too fast reading....

Hi Dave,

Yes, just Citi loans at this point. Will be a pain... But it's actually a good idea, we have a lot of people giving false income.. Messes things up for the honest people... How are things going for you Dave?

[Sunbeam]

Hi, sunbeam, sorry for the delay... It sounds good, as long as you aren't in anything with a balloon payment. Must be a traditional modification. Make sure that it's a fixed rate interest rate loan.. When you have an actual negotiator or Loss mitt specialist 3 you are in pretty good hands.. Good job getting your congressman involved and freddie mac, you will probably get assistance. My problem is that there are a lot of people that aren't going to get help because they are not as resourceful as yourself.. The special account you are speaking about is just "unapplied funds" it's where all funds go that aren't your normal mortgage payment. Please let me know how it goes? Investor Fannie??

Thanks Need! I got the mod. 4.5% fixed...extended to 40 years. This drops my mortgage payment by $600 per month. I have to set up an escrow account for tax/insurance which I can pay out over 5 years, but since my mortgage has now dropped I will pay sooner. I am so very happy with this arrangement. I can now work down my other debt and get to a place where I have breathing room and no unsecured debt. I was upside down on my home by about 20K, but I am going nowhere. We have put so much into our home; bought it 11 yrs ago and it was a wreck, but now is getting to be a lovely home, 100 years old, historic neighborhood we want to stay for years and years and this will make it affordable. My loan negotiator is a wonderful person. I can't say enough good things about her. Getting through to the point where I could work with her and get straight answers and have this go through was the biggest trial of all. Yes, unless you keep pushing you will get pushed out. Too many people give up at the first denial. I couldn't bear to not get a modification...I would have refinanced if I had equity, but there was none...investor is Freddie and I got them involved too...that was a big help.

[concernedva]

Needanewjob question. We have received our paperwork. The only thing we received was for us to send in 2008 tax return, copy of last two checks,copy of insurance declaration page, sign the trial period plan and send back. We did not receive a hardship affidavit form or 4506 form to fill out. No bank statement was requested. The heading of the plan is AFFORDABLE MODIFICATION TRIAL PERIOD PLAN (STEP ONE OF TWO-STEP DOCUMENTATION PROCESS), do you know if this is an inhouse modification? Can you give me input on this. Do i need to write a hardship letter before I submit.

[Needanewjob]

Wow, just typed a long message and it was deleted.. I'm very happy for you.. Maybe you can help other people get modified... Sounds like you got a traditional mod, have to be Freddie or fannie for that. Every other investor and were done. Congrats..

[Needanewjob]

Needanewjob question. We have received our paperwork. The only thing we received was for us to send in 2008 tax return, copy of last two checks,copy of insurance declaration page, sign the trial period plan and send back. We did not receive a hardship affidavit form or 4506 form to fill out. No bank statement was requested. The heading of the plan is AFFORDABLE MODIFICATION TRIAL PERIOD PLAN (STEP ONE OF TWO-STEP DOCUMENTATION PROCESS), do you know if this is an inhouse modification? Can you give me input on this. Do i need to write a hardship letter before I submit.

No that isn't an inhouse mod. That's the Hamp program... You will need to provide the 4506t as well as the hardship affidavit. If it wasn't in the paperwork then you will get new paperwork or it can be faxed to you.. 866-423-4560. MOS dept. They will collect all the docs. You definitely will need to send hardship and 4506t, two of the easier things.

[concernedva]

What is step 2 of the documentation process.
We are making the trial payments of 1200.00 our original payment was $1575.00 and we are behind 3 payments what happens if you don't get approved. Would we have to come up with the difference plus the past due amount after the trial period ends.

[Needanewjob]

What is step 2 of the documentation process.
We are making the trial payments of 1200.00 our original payment was $1575.00 and we are behind 3 payments what happens if you don't get approved. Would we have to come up with the difference plus the past due amount after the trial period ends.

That is a good question, depneds on why you don't get the final mod.. Was it because your income was stated wrong? Yes, you would owe the difference. However, for the most part if you don't get approved then something else will be worked out for you... I must advise though that the 3 payments will most likely be 5 or 6... before you get the final paperwork. The final paperwork is step 2.....

[concernedva]

You have been a great help to me. Another question 31%. Example 3500.00 gross income muliply by 31% is the 31% how much you have left or is what your expenses should be. 3500.00 x 31% = 1085

[concernedva]

I am not sure if i was ask for the gross or the net income. Do you think the difference will be made to be paid in a lump sum? And the other question what other options could be worked out?

[Needanewjob]

If you are on the modification program then alternatives can be offered, whether that be a traditional or customized modification or a repayment plan where what you owe is spread out over 12 months, something will be worked out...

According to the guidelines 31 percent of your gross income is an affordable mortgage. Target is to get to that 31 percent number.. Expenses have no bearing.. The only thing high expenses do is to get people denied because there mortgage is still unaffordable.

You are correct. if you make 3500 dollars they consider 1085 an affordable mortgage.. Net means nothing

[concernedva]

So they won't start foreclosure until an agreeable 12 month plan is worked out, correct.
I really think i was ask my net income and not gross, it will not be approved. In my hardship do i need to list my previous expenses and my present/future expenses maybe a budget.

[Needanewjob]

F/c proceedings usually will start after 120 days late.. Takes a long time to actually have the house sold... They can and will start proceedings until something is actually worked out. If you get on a repayment plan or a partial payment plan all f/c proceedings will cease. If your behind and just need to get caught up you can get an HSA or a partial claim depending on investor. What's going on with you? Let me know your situation.. Who is investor?? Are you below the 31 percent on gross? talk to me

[concernedva]

Got behind with medical, loss of income which is overtime, wages froze.
I am due for aug,sept oct.
set up on trial beginning on dec. 1.
payment for dec set up to be taken out in nov.
payment for jan will be set up to be taken out in dec
payment for feb will be set up to be taken out in jan.
What is a HSA?
I have not been assigned an investor.
I think it be below 31% if it is based on gross.

[Needanewjob]

Got behind with medical, loss of income which is overtime, wages froze.
I am due for aug,sept oct.
set up on trial beginning on dec. 1.
payment for dec set up to be taken out in nov.
payment for jan will be set up to be taken out in dec
payment for feb will be set up to be taken out in jan.
What is a HSA?
I have not been assigned an investor.
I think it be below 31% if it is based on gross.

Ok your on trial period so submit the income as they wish.. You will be assinged an counselor at the end of the trial.
Citi mortgage is only the servicer of the loan about 80 percent of the time. Your investor is someone, it's either Fannie mae, freddie mak, citi mortgage, wells fargo or numerous others.
HSA is an acronym for Home Savers advance , it's a loan to get you caught up with a low interest rate and no payments for 6 months.
Partial claim is if you have an FHA loan and need to get caught up, they can advance the funds and they are only payable when you dont own the property.. A lot depends on the investor, call citi and ask who your investor is..

[concernedva]

How do you get a HSA advance?
Will the investor be listed on my orignal documents we signed at the beginning of the loan?
Can I make more than the trial period amount of payment?

[Needanewjob]

How do you get a HSA advance?
Will the investor be listed on my orignal documents we signed at the beginning of the loan?
Can I make more than the trial period amount of payment?

You can make all 3 of your trial periods at once if you want to..

No your docs won't show who your investor is. Call 866-272-4749, they will tell you in an instant. If your investor is a fannie mae loan, ask about a Home savers advance, they will take down your income and expenses. If it looks like you only need to get caught up and you can make your normal monthly payment then you can get funds advanced on your account. HSA is no payments for 6 months with a 5 percent interest rate. If you have an FHA then the partial claim is similiar but better.. Just call and ask, it would help a lot. Each investor has different plans that they offer

[concernedva]

Thank you for the advice. I will do that. I am just a worry wart. If it is not Fannie Mae what do you suggest. Send in my paperwork and see what happens. Continue making the trial payments until I hear something. Thanks so much. I think you need to publish your work # and extension.haha