HAMP denied after 4 trial payments HELP!!

[deepmess]

I have been a follower of your forums for over 6 months now. I have found great help in reading about people in our situation.

I lost my full time job in Oct 2008. My husband lost his job Feb end -2009. I have been working as a consultant since April 2009. I contacted Citibank around the 5th of March and countless phone calls later I was told on 15th May that we should qualify for the modification program. They ordered an appraisal for our property. On 23rd June when I called to find out if they had moved forward they told me we were approved for the trail modification and our payment would go down from 5300 to about 2945 a month based on 9000$ monthly income pretax. We made 4 trail payments - all on time. We sent in paperwork mid September explaining that I was working as a consultant and between my earnings and my husbands unemployment we were bringing in about 9400 before taxes. I had about 24000 last month in my business account since I owe about 10-12000 to the IRS for self employment taxes. October 19th I was informed that the underwriters would review my file and call me. On 29th October I received a letter asking for resubmitting 4506T since the one submitted earlier had expired. We sent that out on the 30th of October.

On Nov 1st I called in to make my November payment - the 5th trail payment and was informed that we were declined the HAMP program since I have 24000 in my bank. Never mind that after paying the IRS and the 5th trial I would be left with 9000 and I would still owe citibank another 12000 if not approved for hamp!!!. We have 1st mortgage of 675,000 and 2nd of 100,000. Our house today is worth 740,000 at best. The appraisal came in around that in June 2009 but prices have fallen since that. We would really like to keep the house we are in but just cannot afford 5300 in payments for the first mortgage. I explained to the citibank person that I needed to speak to a supervisor - but he said that it would not be possible today and I should call back tomorrow. He said we were denied on the 29th of October and we should be receiving the mail regarding that.

Please help me figure out what I need to do now. I am really worried that we will not be able to keep the house. We had put down all our saving to buy this house 4 years ago. We were bringing in 15000 every month between the two of us when we bought the house. We thought of ourselves as savvy home buyers who had bought a small place in a good school district in the NY Metro area (Its a small ranch - nothing over the top) We also had another child 2 years back and then the financial meltdown took away our earnings....

At this point it seems loan safe is our only hope!!

[deepmess]

I was told by citi yesterday that they would contact me today. I tried to reach them and was told that the underwriter would reach me tomorrow. but the weird part is that the name given to me yesterday was different than the one given today. I really need your help....

Anyone had the same experience??

[wiznewrr]

Don't give up on the house, but don't count on HAMP either. Look for one of the nonprofit help groups out there to help you. It sounds like programs are changing constantly still and banks are not so quick to push you out of your house when it gets right down to it.

Hang in there and good luck. I'm in about the same situation.

-Rick

[deepmess]

THANK YOU Rick
I dont know which other programs can help me. I also dont know how long before the bank comes to get my house. I am really confused why the bank will not see that it is my business account. Also I am trying to understand how they will react once I explain the underwriter how much I owe in taxes. This is draining us completely.. dont know how long we can carry on...

what is happenind on your modification?
is there a chance they will review my file again?
what should we be planning for?

thanks

[davephx]

To me it is odd that you got an appraisal vs the automated system which raises question if HAMP. But your not that far underwater compared to many of us and with your high cash you may have failed the NPV test (they should tell you if this is the issue).

The IRS is easy to set up a installment plan for. I have about $22,000 IRS due, got a notice to file levy but was able to set up $343/month payments not starting till January 2010 and not have to worry about liens (which could screw up mod) or levies. The IRS is a lot easy to work with than banks for HAMP!

The general rule seems to be if you have more than 3 months of original payments in cash reserves this can be a problem but you might be able to explain it away when you get a "negotiator" but its odd you never got that far and were flat denied.

But I am betting its the NPV test.

If your self employed you might get rid of some cash and stash the max you can in a Individual 401K the first about $14,000-$16,500 I believe if your over age 50, of earnings dollar for dollar and than profit sharing part. You can also take loans up to $50,000 or half.

Retirement plans are specifically excluded from cash available to pay mortgage.

Overall you are not that far underwater compared to many of us, have tons of cash so I can see why you may be having troubles. You may be able to reapply after getting rid of some cash, it that is the issue. Hopefully they will tell you the problem since I am purely speculating here. But I have found Citi one of the easier ones to work with my experience vs many reports here of other servicers.

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by davephx

But I am betting its the NPV test.

That was my first idea as well when I saw that the balance of the first mortgage is less than the property-value which means equity for the lender since they needn't care about the second lien.

[deepmess]

Thank you Dave and MyHamp.
After reading Dave's comment atleast I feel a bit better about reapplying. But if its NPV then will they approve? In any case I guess we can make lower payments for another 4 months!! I do have a question though.. how do they deal with the fact that because of the reduced payment we are now 3 months behind? Will they send me foreclosure notices?

I am wondering how do I go about reapplying if the underwriter does not call me today. If I can speak with her do you think she will understand or accept that I owe money from my account so really do not have 3 months loan payments. Also any guidance on how to talk to her would be appreciated.

Is there any point in talking to senators etc? We live in Connecticut.

Thank you once again.. Its really nice to see that atleast you guys are listening and responding...

[davephx]

They are not suppose to start any foreclosure action or sale if you can get back on HAMP.

The underwriter is different than the front line mod folks that can get trial approval.

If the underwriter is not helpful would try to restart with the modification/ Loss Mitigation dept folks at 866-272-4749

[tsam9]

Just use the cash in you bussiness account to pay the IRS. Then fax them the new updated BK statement attached with the IRS recipts, simple and easy. Just let the bank know that you no longer have the money, it went to a very legit place.

[deepmess]

My Hamp & Dave and any other reader out in cyberspace,
I have been calling every day on Citi's Loss Mitigation line to find out what I need to do and see if my underwriter will call me. Her name is Teressa Kaylee. I finally spoke to a person on the line who gave me Teressa's number. I am hoping to try and speak with her tomorrow. Please give me any guidance you may feel will help me when I speak with her. As I mentioned before I owe federal as well as state taxes and once those are paid I will be left with less than 2 months loan payments.

On another note, I was told that my file was referred to another person for traditional modification. Any ideas what type of traditional mods are being offered? I am really anxious and nervous.

thank you all... any comments tonight through tomorrow afternoon would help me talk to Teressa.

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by deepmess

My Hamp & Dave and any other reader out in cyberspace,
I have been calling every day on Citi's Loss Mitigation line to find out what I need to do and see if my underwriter will call me. Her name is Teressa Kaylee. I finally spoke to a person on the line who gave me Teressa's number. I am hoping to try and speak with her tomorrow. Please give me any guidance you may feel will help me when I speak with her. As I mentioned before I owe federal as well as state taxes and once those are paid I will be left with less than 2 months loan payments.

On another note, I was told that my file was referred to another person for traditional modification. Any ideas what type of traditional mods are being offered? I am really anxious and nervous.

thank you all... any comments tonight through tomorrow afternoon would help me talk to Teressa.

When on the phone, keep cool and stay polite.

Simply ask where you are right now in the process and if/what documents are needed (that's how we always get engaged in a conversion when calling our lender).

As far as the in-house mods go: Difficult question since there are no regulations or guidelines (which can be agood thing though). Every lender is different. But they already know what you're making every month so they have some kind of idea what a realistic offer would be.

[heidi79]

people, that's a lesson for all of us, NEVER, send the bank a statement showing that much cash reserves in the bank. the banks LIE LIE LIE and they want the same in return.

[davephx]

Originally Posted by deepmess

I mentioned before I owe federal as well as state taxes and once those are paid I will be left with less than 2 months loan payments.

On another note, I was told that my file was referred to another person for traditional modification. Any ideas what type of traditional mods are being offered? I am really anxious and nervous.

Our friendly loss mit guy here said with Citi its basically just HAMP which IMPLIES they don't do traditional, but I think I have seen at least one reports of a Citi traditional.

You SHOULD be able to explain away the high cash for a specific need that it is not available for mortgage payment. But may have to pay it to get rid of it as others have said.

I would think you could ask the loss mit people that question or a couple of them to see if you get same answer. That might give you a clue of the situation before you talk to the underwriter.

I didn't think you can talk to the underwriter but its so confusing. I did reach the Mangers unit a couple times and now Exec Dept called me and have a person assigned to me. But as I understand it doesn't go to "underwriting" till after about the... 6th payment where the review is done.

Do you know who your investor is? If Fannie they have other options, Freddie also but fewer it seems and if GNMA your in bad shape or with most private investors.

[davephx]

The 5 minute edit time got me.. forget about what I said about after 6th payment your after 5 sounds good but I didn't realize you get to talk to an "underwriter" others have referred to that final person as the "negotiator" who is supposedly on your side and he/she is discussing with the underwriter but could be different in your case.

[deepmess]

So here is my update. Tried all afternoon to get in touch with Teressa Kaylee at the number provided .. goes to voicemail !! So finally left her a message at 4pm. Lets hope I hear from someone. I did try to cover all bases.. I will keep on calling her. She is my underwriter and I am wondering if the person who gave me her info did so in error..

I am glad that this forum is available to exchange ideas/thoughts. I am completely exhausted with this process. I cannot even think about going through the process for a traditional or reapplying for HAMP. I am not kidding .. I have started to have migraines..

MY HAMP - I am extremely polite when I talk - but calm I cannot be. Most of the time, I burst into tears and have to excuse myself. I feel like a fish sitting on top of a saran wrapped water bowl. If only I could somehow get around the saran wrap I will be fine.

I am hoping to get my tax paper work in order this weekend and send in the payment. But I know the IRS receipt takes some time

Any information on Citi Traditional Mod will be appreciated.. though I just dont know how I will find the energy to get paperwork for that.

[deepmess]

one more thing.. my investor is not Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae -- its a group of citi investors

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by deepmess

MY HAMP - I am extremely polite when I talk - but calm I cannot be. Most of the time, I burst into tears and have to excuse myself.

By "calm" I meant not to shout at anybody.
Crying can only be an advantage to you unless you're talking to somebody who is a real careless....you know, the a-word..

[deepmess]

ok.. I am panicking now.. few things I left another message for my underwriter.. no news yet!! I called Loss mitigation yesterday and was told I have to wait for one week before they will refer my case to Teressa's supervisor.. I am so disappointed.. I was trusting the system to work... BUT ..
I am also panicking because :

(1) I realized due to partial payments I am now 3 months past due- what happens now? I have not recieved any communications from CITI after the letter that said my HAMP MOD was denied.
(2) If the underwriter is not helpful would try to restart with the modification/ Loss Mitigation dept folks at 866-272-4749Dave could you clarify - is this restarting HAMP or traditional mod.. I am really confused.
(3) Anyone out there who knows what happens now? The uncertainty makes my head pound..

thank you...

[davephx]

Deepmess - "group of citi investors"

I assume this means private investors. If they have not signed participation agreements HAMP may not be an option. But didn't they know this when first put on the trail would be my question.

The too much cash should be easier to rectify (paying IRA etc) but not clear which problem it is or both. Too much cash or private investors.

It seems Citi has done some traditional mods but the inhouse guy (Which we have not heard from for awhile) implied Citi really doesn't have inhouse mods...yet I recall we have seen some.

Assuming your not in foreclosure yet you still have time on your side.

I am totally unclear if you can restart HAMP again if have non participant investors and not the Fannie/Freddie options

[deepmess]

Dave thank you for your response.

I was originally told investor was not participating.. then told they are. So I dont know what to believe.

I have not received any communications from Citi after the HAMP denied letter, So am not sure what is next. But since the 5th Nov I am 3 months past due.. I am not sure how they are handling that now? My account on citi's website says - its under review.. same line as in the last 4 months.

Does anyone know how and when foreclosure notices are served? I am in CT. Does the inhouse guy have any idea??

Also why would citi tell me that they have passed my file for inhouse mod review if they dont have in house mods? Are they just trying to foreclose on me? Connecticut has mandatory mediation right now..what does that mean? how does that work? anyone have any ideas??

thank you once again.

[davephx]

I did hear as I recall of an inhouse mod.

Won't the loss mit folks at least tell you exact status from their computers. They have always tried to be very helpful to me and easy to reach

866-272-4749

I assume in CT you have to be sent foreclosure notice, often its sent both certified and regular mail at the same time. But again I know nothing about CT.

[deepmess]

Dave.. I called the loss mit guys a number of times.. most of them are extremely helpful. One of the women gave me my underwriters number as well. But all they see on my file is that it is referred to another person for possible inhouse mod. They say file is not closed.. but HAMP is denied.

One loss mit person said I should reapply for HAMP. Other 2 said I cannot reapply for HAMP. Two said give it a week and then we will know more.. One said refile on citi's website for Hardship Assistance. One of them also let me speak to a person in Escalation department. He emailed my underwriter.. but I have not heard anything yet.

[davephx]

Yep, the loss mit folks really try to be helpful but they can't do much other than send e-mails and tell you what their computer screens say.

I think Citi unlike some is really trying to do mods... hopefully I will feel the same once my case is solved..... If its Citi investors they may feel more obligation to do a Citi internal mod IF can not get investors to participate. But the info your getting is obviously contradictory.

[BadBobMo]

I am hoping to get my tax paper work in order this weekend and send in the payment.

If it was me I would hold that money for leverage until you gotten a better direction to what is going to happen with your home.
Ca. NOD-After 90 days (they will not let this slide) Now think for a min. (Maybe) O-yes I have that tax money to bring my loan current until we get the payment lower****Ok!
Citi not sure about in-house but should be doing whats in the best interest of the investor's. As far as HAMP Citi is to try and get a wavier from the (investor's)
Hope this helps!

Overall you are not that far underwater

This is true, So they are not going to make money on your home, foreclosure cost the note holder approx. $60,000
So to be realistic they really don't won't your house back.
Also read up on Foreclosure and BK in your state, you might need it.

[deepmess]

Babbobmo thanks for the reply

To be honest...I have been wondering about the sending the IRS check since I have been told they will work with you and create payment plan. Maybe I will wait for few days for some more info.

I am a bit confused by your comment "Ca. NOD - After 90 days... "

Are you saying they start foreclosure proceedings? Is it in my interest to pay and be current with the funds I have?

Also what happens if my husband finds a job?

I also just spoke with citi again.. the loss mit person told me I could only figure something out after speaking with my counselor for possible in house mod. She said she did not see that foreclosure proceedings have started. but there was no way to tell when they might start. She also said she could not take any partial payments. but full 2 months payment.

Really appreciate your help ..