Trial period and final docs VERY Different

[Lionhart75]

I have been working on a mod with citi for about 6 months now and thought it was almost complete. After all the misdirection and the oh by the way we need more docs that we never requested conversations on the phone i received my final docs in the mail today. To no real suprise it dosent realy add up.
I have been on a trial period for 5+ months now and that payment was for $1707.30. I was happy to work with this amountit lowered my payment by $926 per month. I was happy to work with the system for the reward. My wife has become disabbled and can't work. This caused us to loose 70k per year in income and as it would to most people, made many things difficult reguardless of our 4 kids. anyway the final docs have presented a different story than the trial period by far
First the new payment went to 1544.51 and i thought that was even better but that was just a ploy. as i read further i came across a part of the docs called Section 3C this states the P+I is 1544.51 and they will also be charging an additonal $622.14 for some escrow payment bring the total to $2166.54 there wasnt ever any information about a adittional escrow account on top of the so called adjusted mortage.

Is this the way it works???????? my taxes and insurance were included prior to the modifcation and we had a 30yr fixed loan. with this new total we are once again above the 31% by far. Any help or experiance would be great.

[AZOwner]

The banks can do whatever they want to do, unfortunately. Spend some time reading here.

PETITION TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FROM AMERICAN HOMEOWNERS | Petition2Congress |

[lennox]

Lionhart, were you paying taxes and insurance yourself before the modification? A requirement of all HAMP modifications is that the bank escrows for taxes and insurance versus allowing us to pay them directly.

T

[Lionhart75]

No the taxes and insurance have always been included in my payment

[Debca]

There is a complete posting of the HAMP guidelines on the National Consumer Law Center website the link to the pdf file is here

http://www.consumerlaw.org/fprc/cont...kr-excerpt.pdf

You can copy / paste directly from it and site it in a letter/ email to Chase and their Executive Offices - ask for written explaination as to why your HAMP mod does not comform to the quidelines. (Yes, the guidelines ARE to be 31% P, I, Taxes, Insurance inclusive - you are correct).

I am in the process of doing this now as well to Wells Fargo (Freddie Mac) owned, although I have since learned after an hour on the phone with Freddie Mac, that their have their own guidelines and that then Wells Fargo has their own "unknown" guidelines that they are at liberty to set up on their own on top of this.

In your case though, that is what I would do - keep it simple, direct, and request it in writing.

[Lionhart75]

Mortage insurance as well

[Sunbeam]

Are they telling you the terms, ie interest rate and length of the loan? Is the additional monies to build up your escrow account, wait, no you have an escrow account. This is very odd. I would question it. Call and please update us with the outcome. Something is not right here.

[MyHAMP]

I'd say somebody processed your case who has no idea of the HAMP guidelines.

So if I understand correctly, you were on a trial with about $1700/month. Then, you mentioned a payment of $1500/month as permanent. That would be about right (the usual 10% decline between trial and permanent mod). BUT:

BOTH, trial AND permanent mod at 31% of your gross must include escrow. If not, the trial is useless because showing the ability to pay $1700/month certainly doesn't mean you can easily pay $2200/month. I assume that $2200 is more than 31% of your gross, right? That's another HAMP-violation.

Now if these morons used the $1500 as PI and not PITI, who knows what they entered into the NPV evaluation.....

[Lionhart75]

yes all your assumptions are correct MyHAMP some other things that seem out of place are the when u look at the payment schedule the payments seem strange. It starts out payments 1-60 with a rate of 4.25% and a payment of 1545 and after that it goes from 61-72 at 5.0% with a payment of 1654.54 That seems ok when it comes to a normal loan schedule with a portion going to principal and the bulk going to interest then for no reason it goes to 0.0% with a payment of 1023.13 after payment # 71. I find it very strange that the lender or invster would allow me to have the remanding balance of 255k at a o% for the remander of the term. that is a total of almost 300 payments interest free?????????

[Lionhart75]

The loan payment schedule seems strange as well the rate for the first 60 payments are at 4.25% then for the next 12 it goes to 5.0%. That is when it gets realy strange. the rate goes to 0.0% for the remander of the note. that is according to there tables 256k and almost 290 paments with in interest????? This whole thing stinks.

[Lionhart75]

the 5% isnt the issue the payments also drop by $600 when it goes to 0.0% and the table dont show any alotment to interest only to the principal if it were any other way than that u wouldnt pay it off in time that is the strange part

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by Lionhart75

The loan payment schedule seems strange as well the rate for the first 60 payments are at 4.25% then for the next 12 it goes to 5.0%. That is when it gets realy strange. the rate goes to 0.0% for the remander of the note. that is according to there tables 256k and almost 290 paments with in interest????? This whole thing stinks.

Well, since they "assumed" that the entire $1500 can be used for P&I only rather than for PITI, they figured out that they needn't start out at 2% since you are making enough money to start at 4.25% to pay off your loan. Trust me, that schedule would be different if they would have deducted the escrow from the $1500 rather than adding it to it.

Lower initial APR and maybe a longer term...

I know a "checklist" for HAMP where they are supposed to work with the income-numbers. One step is to deduct the escrow amount from the 31% of your gross and use the remaining funds for the NPV and pay-off schedule. I think they skipped that step. However, I don't know how they could get that through the treasury verification.

If done correctly, the 0.0%-fields would probably filled with real numbers.

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by Lionhart75

the 5% isnt the issue the payments also drop by $600 when it goes to 0.0% and the table dont show any alotment to interest only to the principal if it were any other way than that u wouldnt pay it off in time that is the strange part

A drop by $600? Now what a coincident?! That's the escrow-amount they messed up...

[Lionhart75]

My account has been passed from one stupid person to another the entire time it has taken at least 1 phone call per week the entire time, trying to keep the crap straight. I have come to expect nothing less of this fine institution. I have a call in to the idiot now and plan to blow up her voice mail tomarrow unitill i get some answers.

[Sunbeam]

If I might make a suggestion: when you call, be respectful of the person you are contacting. Of course let him/her know you are frustrated and worried and upset and that you really need some clear answers. But "blowing up her voicemail" is not going to win you any friends and in this game diplomacy does count. Believe me, it really does. Take a deep breath. Be firm, but polite and remember the person you are talking to is a human being and if you treat them like one, they just might reciprocate.

[Needanewjob]

Originally Posted by Sunbeam

If I might make a suggestion: when you call, be respectful of the person you are contacting. Of course let him/her know you are frustrated and worried and upset and that you really need some clear answers. But "blowing up her voicemail" is not going to win you any friends and in this game diplomacy does count. Believe me, it really does. Take a deep breath. Be firm, but polite and remember the person you are talking to is a human being and if you treat them like one, they just might reciprocate.

Great advice!!! I work there as one of the idiots, and I have to agree that with the information that we are given we have to sound like idiots, and also there are a ton of idiots that work there... But if you are nice and polite to that person, they may send that extra email or go that extra mile that could make all the difference.. Good luck being mean, and even better luck talking to a superviser

[Lionhart75]

I have always been very professional with the indiviuals at citi and even though they frustrate the daylights out of me i always keep in mind the "golden rule" Those with the gold make the rules!!! Anyway after talking to 2 different people on friday the second person sounded like thy had some bit of a clue and looked at the docs. He agreed that they didnt look to be in order and verifyed that the mod wasnt in line with the guidelines and that the person handling the account has been and will be notified again and for me to expect some contact reguarding the issue soon. We will see what the result will be but i have found multipule calls will finaly get results with these clowns.

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by Lionhart75

I have always been very professional with the indiviuals at citi and even though they frustrate the daylights out of me i always keep in mind the "golden rule" Those with the gold make the rules!!! Anyway after talking to 2 different people on friday the second person sounded like thy had some bit of a clue and looked at the docs. He agreed that they didnt look to be in order and verifyed that the mod wasnt in line with the guidelines and that the person handling the account has been and will be notified again and for me to expect some contact reguarding the issue soon. We will see what the result will be but i have found multipule calls will finaly get results with these clowns.

Hopefully, they get it straight. Keep on fighting! If you are consistent, you'll get what you want. The most important thing is that you are on this board and have the knowledge to judge for yourself what's right and wrong under HAMP guidelines. I feel sorry for the many - often helpless - homeowners who have to trust their lenders and can't even notice obvious errors like that and might lose their home due to a processing- or data-input error...

[kiranedison]

Could u pl let me know what is the name of the final Modification Documents u received from Citimortgage

[Ragtopgal]

Needanewjob or those who have completed the trial mods and have a permanent one - HAMP - My trial period was 10/1-12/1. I just made the 12/1 payment. Now I'm told they have extended it to 1/1. That in January perhaps I would then be approved for a permanent mod. Exactly who looks at my docs now, anyone? I tried to ask questions, but there is no definitive answer. My Citimortgage account still says 8/13/09, we are reviewing your docs. That was ages ago; I signed the trial docs and they were scanned into the system Sept. 18. Is this longer delay normal?

[mannes123]

I started my mod journey in march and got on the hamp program in June. I made my first "trial payment" July 30. I am now on my fourth payment and only get that I am still under review. I found out last week that my paperwork had been stalled waiting for a follow up form that I sent in two months ago! I call at least twice a week to try and keep things on track. Doesn't always work. I did receive a rqst for the form 4056t, to resign it, so I think things are moving again. I am hopefull that it will be perm modified by years end.

[m_nair]

Ragtopgal,
Call the loss mitigation phone number and find out where you are in the process. If you do not get the right answer, call back again till you get one. I kept calling till, my case was assigned to a counselor and then get there contact information. From then it was just the question of answering emails, sending documents, till I got the final mod paperwork and the changes showed up online.

[Lionhart75]

Ok This is the latest on this so called modification program. After calling at least two times every day for the last week i might have found out what is going on First my loan counc still hasnt called me back after mutiple messages and email sent to her. Second almost every csr that i have talked to in the last week couldnt find the root of the problem and just wanted to push me off to the person in charge of the loan. Finaly somene was kind enough to take the time to read the multiple notes on the account and come to a conclusion about the problems that i am having.

I was told this:
The problem seems to be related to two diffrerent mod programs occuring in my account at the same time. The first is a HAMP Mod and the second is what they called a traditional modification. Now i dont know the detail on the diffrence of a tradional mod and if anyone can educate me on that it would be welcomed.
The trial period that i have gone threw was for the traditional mod and for some reason i wasnt started on a HAMP mod. The traditonal was for $1707 per month and the docks that i got in the mail was for that mod it didnt include the tax and insurace in the trial period. "That is stupid in my view because it dosent state that in any of the docks and what good is a trial if the final payment is $600 higher after the T. I.
So now this is the soulution that the CSR gave me The HAMP payment would be around $1000 and i must go threw the trial payment period and all the paperwork again. He will move the loan to a supervisor to correct the issue with the two diffrent mods and to get back to them in 3 business days. Following the correction on the account we can start the mod processe all over again. I cant wait.
Does anyone know the main dirrences in the two programs??????
any experiance would be greatly apreciated Thanks to all

[MyHAMP]

Originally Posted by Lionhart75

Ok This is the latest on this so called modification program. After calling at least two times every day for the last week i might have found out what is going on First my loan counc still hasnt called me back after mutiple messages and email sent to her. Second almost every csr that i have talked to in the last week couldnt find the root of the problem and just wanted to push me off to the person in charge of the loan. Finaly somene was kind enough to take the time to read the multiple notes on the account and come to a conclusion about the problems that i am having.

I was told this:
The problem seems to be related to two diffrerent mod programs occuring in my account at the same time. The first is a HAMP Mod and the second is what they called a traditional modification. Now i dont know the detail on the diffrence of a tradional mod and if anyone can educate me on that it would be welcomed.
The trial period that i have gone threw was for the traditional mod and for some reason i wasnt started on a HAMP mod. The traditonal was for $1707 per month and the docks that i got in the mail was for that mod it didnt include the tax and insurace in the trial period. "That is stupid in my view because it dosent state that in any of the docks and what good is a trial if the final payment is $600 higher after the T. I.
So now this is the soulution that the CSR gave me The HAMP payment would be around $1000 and i must go threw the trial payment period and all the paperwork again. He will move the loan to a supervisor to correct the issue with the two diffrent mods and to get back to them in 3 business days. Following the correction on the account we can start the mod processe all over again. I cant wait.
Does anyone know the main dirrences in the two programs??????
any experiance would be greatly apreciated Thanks to all

Well, at least they found the problem now.

Now to your question: We don't know the answer. HAMP modifications follow public guidelines (well, at least they should) so you can apply certain formulas like the waterfall or the 31% of your gross.

Traditional or in-home modifications don't have "general" guidelines - in other words, each lender makes them. HAMP isn't always better than a traditional one (although you often get the lower payment) but traditional mods from your lender aren't bount to guidelines as strict as HAMP, so if you don't qualify for HAMP, the in-house mod might still be an option.

So to compare these mods, you would need all numbers and facts about the traditional mod offered.

[Lionhart75]

from the conversation i had i do qualify for HAMP with no problem but they want me to start he trial period all over again that is another 3 to 4 months of bad credit reporting on the note. That Sucks.