Do not call the # on Citi site, and do not try a modification if you are current!

[gdubya]

Here's my story/novel. 2 1/2 yrs ago we bought our home in MN that we had been renting and loved and took an 80/20 fixed at 8.5% which was the only loan that we could get at the time due to a BK/forclosure 5yrs previous when I had lost my job during a real-estate downturn on the loft market in Denver before I was married and had kids. At closing, the note included a 2% prepayment penalty that we didn't know about in advance, but according to our rental agreement we had to purchase or move so, we worked with it. We figured we could just barely make our payments and hold out 3 yrs, and then refinance after some some of the remaining negative credit info came of my credit report (supposed to come off this month!) This summer, our payment went up due to increased taxes and insurance, and all our other expenses have gone up due to the economy, and a second child born in April. At this point we only get by by putting excess expenses on credit cards, and balances have started to swell. We are right on the edge between no equity and being underwater, and can't really afford an appriasal to find out and can't afford our prepay anyway so a refi is out of the question. I called Citi's refi # one time, and the guy told me I could not refi, and I should probably call for a loan modification. I shrugged it off and figured it was probably just the runaround.

Every month, I have made my payment online and seen the Citi advertisement to call 866-272-4749 if "you are concerned about making your payment, or to go to their web form" Finally, after putting more groceries and childrens clothes on my credit card that has been jacked up to 23% interest I decided to fill out the forms online with my income and expenses and called the 866-272-4749 # to "talk to a representative about my options." Big mistake.

10/22/09 I spoke to a Gerome who seemed clueless as to what any of their programs were and seemed like just a basic call center rep. He sent me to Chris Edwards in Refi department in St Louis. He asked what I thought the house was worth, and I said probably just about what I owe on it based on Zillow.com. He told me without significant equity there was nothing he could do, but that they always had to check before they offered a loan modification. Seemed reasonable to me. He transferred me to Vince in Loss Mitigation (that was the 866-272-4749 #).

Vince told me that I qualified for a loan modification, and that they would offer to reduce my interest rate to 7.375% to make my payment 31% of my gross income and leave the term at 27.6 yrs. This would take my payment down from $2251.61 to $2075.41. I told him that I thought that is should be 31% of net since that was how they qualify for front and backend DTI on a mortgage application, but he said they go with gross because it is the only # that doesn't fluctuate. Whatever.

After my experience with a surprise prepay penalty, I asked a lot of questions. What was the prepay with this? None, he said. How long was this agreement for and could I refinance out of it? Can't refinance or modify again for 12 months, he said. I asked how would this affect my credit since it took a long time to rehab my credit after BK/foreclosure and it is still a work in progress. No negative info on credit report he said, he did indicate that it would show a modification, but that they would not show any partial payments, and that Citi would not report any negative info but I should check with the credit bureaus to see what effect the change in terms would have. OK. I told him that this was not the answer to my financial situation, but a reduced payment would certainly help. He got very pushy and said I had to verbally agree to this change in terms or they could not send me the paperwork. I was very reluctant to agree to anything I hadn't seen in writing, so I said I would agree with the stipulation that I would have to verify the effect on my credit report, and of course read the documents. He said that their guarantee date for teh documents was 10/29/09 but that it could take up to 30 days for them to be arrive. I should have been more skeptical, but I could understand they might be busy. He told me that I should continue to pay as normal, and that once I received and signed my documents they were very strict that my payment be made before the 1st of the month, and that they requested I call the loss mitigation # again to pay by phone and they would take a phone payment at no charge. He told me once I saw the documents, or talked to a credit bureau I could always cancel and just call back to loss mit and tell them I was cancelling my loan mod. After I got off the phone, I tried to look for a # to call any credit bureaus but couldn't find any # to talk to a real person. I did some googling, and found several others asking the same question about being current and looking for a loan mod, but none of them had any answers either. That's when I found this site and started reading some of these horror stories and got a bad feeling about things. But they had seemed so straightforward, so I thought maybe they finalyl were getting the process smoothed out. I signed up here, but my account was not approved until today. No big deal, I thought, I had some time until my paperwork arrived to ask questions and start a thread or two here.

Got paid on Friday 10/23. This is the tight part of the month, since this paycheck covers the mortgage + about $85. Today, I want to make my payment online as I have for the last 2 1/2 years and it tells me I cannot make a payment online. I remembered Vince telling me they wanted me to pay by phone via the loss mit # so I called them, and talked to a rep named Shakeen (?) who told me that my mod was showing approved in their system, and I should pay the reduced amount of $2071.41. I got a little frustrated with him, and said that they hadn;t told me I would not be able to pay online, I hadn't received any paperwork, and after reading about the bad reputation they had on loansafe.org there was no way in the world I was going to pay less than my regular payment until I received the paperwork and could look it over and that some loansafe members had waited months without their paperwork arriving. I was getting angry and he asked me to calm down. I got hold of myself, he apologized for them not telling me about the onine payments being disabled, and I resumed being polite. He offered to take my full regular payment if that's what I wanted and took my info and gave me a confirmation #. He them asked if I had any other questions? I again asked about what exactly would be shown on my credit report if I made my regular payments rather than a reduced payment during this trial period if I accepted their modification, and he said that he would put me on hold and check with a team lead. He came back and said he had spoken to his team lead, Ashley, and that she told him that if I chose to make the full payment, they would want me to make that payment AND the reduced payment. I told him that I was trying very hard not to get irate and scream into the phone, but that I was determined not to take it out on him. He said that this info just didn't sound right to him, and he wanted to check with another lead and was going to put me on hold. At this point, somehow he hung up on me.

Incensed, thinking they had just screwed me over and were going to be expecting another payment of the reduced amount in addition to my full payment I just made, I called back immediately. I was conencted to Connor, who I finally asked for an employee ID (#KS87748) and he seemed much more knowledgeable that the previous reps, or at least more confident about his information. I explained the events so far, and he said that the legislation from congress stipulated explicitly that there would be negative credit information submitted with ANY loan modification (I have looked at the government site, and it sure doesn't say that!) and that if I was told otherwise on my first call I was misinformed. He said I had applied for a forebearance and this would show up on my credit. I was upset since Vince had never used the word forebearance, and if he had that would have set off a red flag because I know what that means. He also told me that EVEN JUST APPLYING for a loan mod would place negative information on my credit report. He tried to make me feel like I shouldn't even be trying to work with them because this was only for those who are trying to save their homes (ie; desperate enough to accept anythign they say) and just completely discounted my situation. He also told me that since I made a payment before the 1st when my payment was due, that his experience was that this would be applied to the principal, and that I would still be responsible for my payment once the 1st rolled around. We went back and forth, with me telling him I have paid before the 1st before and that my last payment was on the 27th of the previous month. He said he saw that, but that his experience was that I would have to make another payment after the first. Between this call and the last, this was starting to sound like extortion! I demanded he cancel the Loan Modification and after he confirmed that he had put in the cancel, I asked for his supervisor, and indicated that I felt this whole process was unfair and deceptive business practice and I was ready to report them to the BBB, call my members of congress, and make an appointment to speak to anyone in the media who would listen as well as call into any TV and radio news show I could possibly find and consult a lawyer. He came back after 15 minutes and said that both supervisors on duty were on a call and he could not tell me when either of them would be off the phone, but that I could hold if I wanted for however long it took or I could leave a voicemail. Remembering the thread with the special executive contact info, I agreed to leave a voicemail for Ricky Bush (whose vmail only said Rick, and didn't indicate position of any kind) who of course didn't call back tonight.

Finally, I got back on loansafe.org and found the 866-255-3901 number. I told the woman who answered I was incredibly angry and frustrated by my treatment by their loss mitigation department. She rather brusquely said, "This is the Executive department number! Have you been speaking with someone here?" I said I got this number from loansafe.org and I was ready to file complaints, call and write my congresspersons, and try to talk to the media because I was not being treated fairly. I asked if I could explain what had happened. She said yes. I asked her name and she said her name was Annette, and actually gave me her extension # which I will not put here because she was actually helpful, courteous, and polite at the end. After explaining my situation and everything that had happened she was very helpful and reassuring and looked in their system and found my payment and said that it would apply to the correct month's payment, and actually made notes in the system to that effect and said that she could ensure that this was the case. She also made notes in their system that I no longer wanted a loan modification, and apologized for the bad information I was given. I expressed my concern for the negative information that could be placed on my credit report for being duped by their website into applying for this thing, and indicated I would not leave this alone and wold pursue it. She was very nice and indicated that since I was not accepting this, that she would presonally work with me to have any negative info removed that showed up there. She even let me know that she did not want me to feel like Citi was deceiving me again and told me the Executive Response Unit phone # would be changing this Friday, and although she could not find teh # for me in her email, she would locate it and give me the new # if I could call back tomorrow. I will do so, and hopefully she will be able to give me the new #.

Wow, what a mistake to be proactive with these loss mit people. Just out of spite I wish I could personally stop paying my mortgage and take the mortgage payment every month and put it under the mattress just to keep it out of their hands. In the meantime, I plan to attend a NACA seminar and see what they have to say about all this.

Wow, what a long story and I've been at this less than a week. I can only imaging how some of you feel with your ongoing nightmare sagas. Best of luck to everyone here, and thanks for reading and letting me share my story. Hopefully someone else will be helped by it as well.

[SillyWorld]

Sounds so Familure, been there done that, now the NACA is a long wait, still waiting and waiting, but I denied the first MOD when thery said if I was denied I would have a balloon payment at the end, and yes they refused to send me the paperwork first so I could read what I was agreeing to.. But welcome the the waiting club, I do hope you get it done faster than the many of us still awaiting

[gdubya]

Originally Posted by SillyWorld

Sounds so Familure, been there done that, now the NACA is a long wait, still waiting and waiting, but I denied the first MOD when thery said if I was denied I would have a balloon payment at the end, and yes they refused to send me the paperwork first so I could read what I was agreeing to.. But welcome the the waiting club, I do hope you get it done faster than the many of us still awaiting

Ya, I am still trying to find a story where NACA actually refinanced anyone before I get too excited. If my loan wasn't so crappy that Fannie/Freddie didn't want to touch it I could refi with the MHA.

If these were still the days of drive-by appraisals an FHA refi would be a no-brainer. Sad part is I would still happily refi 100% of what we paid before, and not care what the value of the house was if only I could refi at a market rate.

Instead, they want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

[davephx]

The trial payments are held in suspense and you do show deliquent on credit report. That is why delinquencies are rising on many banks with all the trials. They were right that the only way to not have a late on credit report is to make the full payment and if you also wanted to be on the trial had to make both, since they are handled totally different.

Under HAMP the 31% has to be on gross not net. It is simply the law.

You should if go on trial ask if you pass the Net Present Value test which they are supposed to run first. It is hard to pass if your not a lot underwater it seems but that is not the only factor.

Many servicers try and get you on a forbearance instead of a HAMP mod which is rarely any good since you have to make up all the reduced payments.

[gdubya]

Originally Posted by davephx

The trial payments are held in suspense and you do show deliquent on credit report. That is why delinquencies are rising on many banks with all the trials. They were right that the only way to not have a late on credit report is to make the full payment and if you also wanted to be on the trial had to make both, since they are handled totally different.

Under HAMP the 31% has to be on gross not net. It is simply the law.

You should if go on trial ask if you pass the Net Present Value test which they are supposed to run first. It is hard to pass if your not a lot underwater it seems but that is not the only factor.

Many servicers try and get you on a forbearance instead of a HAMP mod which is rarely any good since you have to make up all the reduced payments.

It's too bad that members here, like you Dave, know more about how citi's programs work than Citi itself.

The dumbest thing to me is that they won't even refinance me or let me out of a prepay when they would do exactly that if my loan was owned by fannie/freddie.

I mean, exactly how does it make sense that they can't refi to a lower payment because of LTV, when they are the investor on the original underwater loan? It's like they are completely retarded when it comes to risk management.

Reminds me of when I tried to short sell my loft in 2002 and the loss mitigation of the bank holding the second wouldn't budge 2K on a 25K HELOC when my attorney called them and told them that if they would settle we had a purchase agreement with a buyer ready and if they didn't he was submitting BK paperwork by the end of the week and they would be last in line. The loss mit person then yelled at him and told him he couldn't threaten her and hung up. The second retaliated and put in foreclosure papers the next day, and my attny filed the day after that. At auction, the property sold for the amount of the first plus 2K. They lost over 20K just because of intransigence.

And they say WE don't know how to manage OUR finances...

[davephx]

Well we know about HAMP at least from reading all the directives. But internal mods like Citi's have no public infor available so we just don't know what the secret ingredients are to success sadly.

[Sunbeam]

I posted somewhere else that I was put on the trial mod program w/o a verbal or written agreement. I am attempting to get a traditional (non-hamp) mod from CITI and my negotiator put me on the trial payments. She pulled my on time payments and put them into a holding account. This spurred collections to add late charges to my account and the phone calls, etc. I was livid. My negotiator did not do this on purpose, it is as she says "her left hand not knowing what her right hand was doing". Anyway, I did get the late charges removed and I have a very nice letter from Citimortgage telling me no adverse info has been reported to credit bureaus. I am guarding that letter closely and will check my credit after this saga has ended. You can see my posts under Wit's End. Good luck to you. Don't give up....write a letter to your congressperson...did you say the loan is owned by Citi? They are crazy not to modify your loan. Oh, yes, we already established that!

[vkovaler2000]

Hello,

can you help me understanding the logic of Citimortgage?
They are saying that for Citi-owned loans, if HAMP fails than
traditional (manual or bank in-house) modification is not available.
My situation is following: 550K first loan with Citimortgage,
190K Citi HELOC. Behind one month on first loan. Appraised at 798K in June.
Working with one of the Executive Response team assistant.
His logic is a mystery to me when he says that if HAMP fails, he can offer only foreclosure. Thank you in advance.

[davephx]

We have seen Citi inhouse deals here.

But you probably do not qualify since you have equity based on appraised value so no Citi mod is available. That is why you may also fail the NPV test for HAMP.

[vkovaler2000]

Thank you so much for reply, davephx! Do you think that Citi can turn me down for both HAMP an in-house modifications just because I have ~50K in equity? Is this legit to force me to foreclosure or short sale or just sale the house? And even to sell the house at appraised value I need to put ~70K of repairs. My impression is that they have to provide some kind of long term solution beneficial for both Citi and owner. Am I wrong? What leverage do I have to fight with them? I have 2 kids to raise and recovering from neck surgery, wich casues me to stay off job for a while. Thank you in advance for your response.

[davephx]

The NPV test seems very hard to pass if you are not substantially underwater. It may make sense to modify but if the magic numbers don't work they use it as an excuse to foreclose..sadly.

[hellony59]

I do not inderstand all the Bashing on Citi. I just went through the hamp and went from 2750 a month to 1127 and they defered 230,000. Best Chritmas gift I ever got. Citi is one of the more pro active banks out there doing the right thing. 5 yrs 2% 6the year fixed at 4.875 40 year amort. If you dont qualify then there is nothing you can do. I guess I was blessed. I do hope to hear some people recieve the same wonderful gift I got. I signed the papers today.

[vkovaler2000]

Congratulations hellony59, good to know Citi does help at least someone. In my case, they do not even want to have a person assigned to even look for some help.

[SillyWorld]

Originally Posted by hellony59

I do not inderstand all the Bashing on Citi. I just went through the hamp and went from 2750 a month to 1127 and they defered 230,000. Best Chritmas gift I ever got. Citi is one of the more pro active banks out there doing the right thing. 5 yrs 2% 6the year fixed at 4.875 40 year amort. If you dont qualify then there is nothing you can do. I guess I was blessed. I do hope to hear some people recieve the same wonderful gift I got. I signed the papers today.

Yea Congrats on your Luck, many others here are starving and Citi looks they other way...

Being so new here you should buy lottery tickets seems to be your lucky times

[Sunbeam]

Originally Posted by vkovaler2000

Hello,

can you help me understanding the logic of Citimortgage?
They are saying that for Citi-owned loans, if HAMP fails than
traditional (manual or bank in-house) modification is not available.
My situation is following: 550K first loan with Citimortgage,
190K Citi HELOC. Behind one month on first loan. Appraised at 798K in June.
Working with one of the Executive Response team assistant.
His logic is a mystery to me when he says that if HAMP fails, he can offer only foreclosure. Thank you in advance.

I suggest you escalate to office of president and keep calling, saying you want to keep your home.

[davephx]

I don't think there is any "office of President" available at City.

Executive Response team I believe is the highest along with the Managers Unit...not sure which higher I've had contact with both.

vkovaler - You mentioned 50k of equity but needs 70k of repairs. Does Citi know this.. or do you know their appraisal came in that high.. the 70K or repairs might also be a good hardship reason... maybe depending on why.