Citimortgage stalling, need help

[Rate2high]

Hi I'm new here and this is my first post, am hoping to get some guidance. Like most others I need help getting a loan modification, my loan is qualified under the Making Home Affordable program, but when I call Citi they are pushing me to do their 3 month deal instead which doesn't make sense, to not pay for 3 months and have those payments added to the principal at a higher rate afterward. I need long term help. My income has dropped significantly so am afraid my debt ratio will be too high, does anyone know what the guidelines are? I can't find that information.

I wanted to sell the house but my mortgage is over $100,000 higher than anything comparable to it on the market. This is the first month I've missed a payment and am stressed out. Any ideas what I can do, what the exact guidelines are and how to avoid getting trapped in the waiting game while they purposely wait for you to go to foreclosure? Does anyone know if it's worth hiring an attorney and how one can go about finding one?? Thanks for any info!!

[davephx]

The HAMP program which most of us are looking to requires 3 trial payments based on your gross employee income x 31%. This will probably be the required trial on your 1st mortgage. There are other hurdles like the NPV test but they will run that before approving the trial.

After you make the 2nd trial payment should be sent documents to verify your income etc. But many times the trials go on to 4, 5 or 6 months before reviewed for final modification

[heidi79]

It's confusing, you say your loan is under the home affordable plan, but they are offering something else? If you won't make payments for 3 months that is only a forebearance plan, they won't foreclose but at the end there will have to be some mod done because obviously you won't have 3 months of payments to send them.

If your income is nonexistant right now, you definitley won't qualify for any of their programs, in that case the forebearance might make sense to buy time.

Many members have done their modifications without attorneys, it depends on your personal choice.

[Rate2high]

Originally Posted by heidi79

It's confusing, you say your loan is under the home affordable plan, but they are offering something else?

What I mean is I went to a website where I entered my address and based on that it said I can qualify for the Making Home Affordable modification (because it's Fannie Mae or something like that). I hate this whole process, instead of looking at my decreased income and all the paperwork and determining that I qualify for the modification (which congress gave them hundreds of billions to cover so they won't suffer a loss) from what I'm reading, first they kind of force you to start missing payments for several months and screw up your credit then if you suffer enough they'll throw some bread crumbs at you. That's why I am wondering if an attorney can help bypass all this BS.

[Rate2high]

Originally Posted by davephx

The HAMP program which most of us are looking to requires 3 trial payments based on your gross employee income x 31%. This will probably be the required trial on your 1st mortgage. There are other hurdles like the NPV test but they will run that before approving the trial.

After you make the 2nd trial payment should be sent documents to verify your income etc. But many times the trials go on to 4, 5 or 6 months before reviewed for final modification

I'm self employed so some months I get paid some months hardly anything so do they take last year's income I filed and divide that by 12? My debt ratio would be like 90% probably. This is just a nightmare trying to figure this whole thing out I'm stressed out. So the HAMP is what that 3 month deal is called where you miss your payments? Sorry for sounding upset I'm just sick of this whole situation how my mortgage is way more than my home value and I feel stuck while at the same time my income has dropped so I've missed a payment for the first time in my life. Where's the help Obama promised? First you have to practically go into foreclosure then beg on your knees and if you're lucky they'll help?

[davephx]

You can be in "immanent danger of default" and current but it is much harder.

HAMP is designed for us with serious financial hardships which have to be justified. Not for those that just want a lower payment because they think they deserve it (Not saying is your case).

I am also self employed with huge net income swings. For trial they wanted me to verbally provide last 3 months average. For final determination require either lastest quarter and year-to-date. Fortunately even with wild flucuations my averages come out close using different periods.

NACA is really bad for self employeds they have the silly circle your business income and expense items on your bank statements for the last six months which I did but was a pain since I have lots of tranactions and all in one acct for personal and business. Doing a P/L using Quicken is very easy which is what I submit under the non NACA way.

Debt ratio makes no difference at least directly- if over 55% have to agree to see credit counselor is all. But also may effect the Net Present Value test they also run.

If as it sounds you are way underwater this helps the NPV test.

But yes you get behind in payments by paying the 31% x in your case NET income from self employment = 1st mortgage "affordable" payment.

For some of us the potential reduction especially if are way behind already is very worth the extreme effort it takes IF we can get approved.

It is not a perfect program especially with serviers not following directives but for what it is intended and for the funds allocated I think it is a very good attempt to help millions in severe hardship. That is if more of the trials get mods but most of that problem seems to be with the servicers being more restrictive than the directives call for.

[Bill_IN]

Rate2High

I have been trying to get a mod from Citi as well (Fannie Mae as investor), and had gotten nowhere for 3 months despite being able to show loss of $25k. income 4 years ago. We finally quit paying them to get their attention.

I agree that the servicers are not following the guidelines, but the guidelines frankly don't make much sense to me. They told me I don't qualify (when I was paying them), and now I qualify. Nothing has changed in our situation - except we quit paying them a few months ago to motivate them. Credit is taking a hit, but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

The HAMP guidelines (their not guidelines, they're "rules") are based on Gross wages. FIRST mortgages can be modified down to 31% of gross. They don't take into account anyone's Fed OR State taxes. And, the guidelines haven't really changed to take into account second mortgages or HELOCs in the calculations from what I can tell, even though common sense says they should. (Our government has NO common sense). And, the new (March-April 2009) directive changes on seconds, is only for seconds at the large mortgage banks that have taken TARP money. Most HELOCS and seconds are taken out at smaller hometown banks.

Calculating on gross would be fine if we didn't have to eat, buy gasoline, get haircuts, go to the doctor, and so on. You know, all the frivolities that we "blow" our money on.

Our problem, like so many, is that we were stupid enough to use a HELOC and credit cards so we could continue paying our mortgage (hoping to sell our home and move into something more affordable).

I have finally contacted NACA to help get a loan mod, in hopes that they have enough "insider" knowledge, and perhaps a report with someone at Citi, to get a loan mod for us based on NET not the ridiculous concept of basing it on Gross.

I wish we'd have contacted NACA sooner, and trying to keep my hopes high that they can achieve what we haven't been able to.

Hope our story has helped you. Good luck!

[Rate2high]

Originally Posted by Bill_IN

The HAMP guidelines (their not guidelines, they're "rules") are based on Gross wages. FIRST mortgages can be modified down to 31% of gross. They don't take into account anyone's Fed OR State taxes. And, the guidelines haven't really changed to take into account second mortgages or HELOCs in the calculations from what I can tell, even though common sense says they should. (Our government has NO common sense). And, the new (March-April 2009) directive changes on seconds, is only for seconds at the large mortgage banks that have taken TARP money. Most HELOCS and seconds are taken out at smaller hometown banks.

Calculating on gross would be fine if we didn't have to eat, buy gasoline, get haircuts, go to the doctor, and so on. You know, all the frivolities that we "blow" our money on.

I have finally contacted NACA to help get a loan mod, ck!

Thanks for sharing your story. It's so upsetting to hear that you had to miss so many payments before they finally helped. I will be missing my second payment so on the one hand one person says I can't qualify for the modification if I'm behind on my payments, the other person when I called again said if I'm not late then I don't need a modification. I can't seem to get a straight answer, with 2 months late now and not moving forward with the application things are getting more and more stressful.

I am also confused about how they calculate income. They took down all my monthly expenses such as credit card payments, car payments and so on and then determined that my income is not enough to cover all my expenses. Well obviously that's why I'm trying to modify my loan.

At the end they declined my application for the reason that my debt is too much for my income. I need to get help from a source to get straight answers because I don't think they weren't explaining things to the point where I understood why exactly I was declined considering a drop in income should qualify someone. They wanted my income to be 2 1/2 times what my current monthly mortgage payment is.

What is NACA?

[Sunbeam]

Originally Posted by Rate2high

I'm self employed so some months I get paid some months hardly anything so do they take last year's income I filed and divide that by 12? My debt ratio would be like 90% probably. This is just a nightmare trying to figure this whole thing out I'm stressed out. So the HAMP is what that 3 month deal is called where you miss your payments? Sorry for sounding upset I'm just sick of this whole situation how my mortgage is way more than my home value and I feel stuck while at the same time my income has dropped so I've missed a payment for the first time in my life. Where's the help Obama promised? First you have to practically go into foreclosure then beg on your knees and if you're lucky they'll help?

I think you may be getting confused on the three month trial period. During this time, you must make the specified payments and on time. If you do, you MAY be eligible for a permanent modification under HAMP. If what you are saying is that you would make NO payments during this time, you are talking about a forebearance which gives you time to pay down some debt, get caught up and then the money you owed would be put to the back end of your loan. Find out the specifics of what is being offered to you. I suggest you go ahead and apply and then follow up a couple of times a week, ask for someone to be assigned to your file so that you have a contact. Get their name and phone number and email address as quickly as possible. Keep in touch with that person. Be polite to that person, but ask questions like the ones you are asking here. What are they going to offer you? What are you eligible for? Are you over 31% of gross income on your mortgage?

Good luck and don't lose heart. It is a difficult, trying process. The front end people you speak w/ with your mortgage co do not always know what they are talking about. Try not to let their confusion drive you too nutty. Document all your contact, calls. Dates, times, who you spoke to and what was stated. Keep a log. And keep reading and posting here. It will give you the courage to keep moving ahead.

[davephx]

I am concerned about what Rate2high is saying about debt ratio.... if it is ALL debt and monthly payments are more than 55% of income ALL that means is you have to agree to credit counseling.

At least if its really HAMP. I think you can only include credit card payments you decide you will pay. They can't force you to pay them all. HAMP is not a plan to first pay your credit cards but to pay an affordable mortgage.

On the 1st set of paperwork there is no budget. I hope they don't toss this at you at the 2nd paperwork final round and have a debt payment other than mortgage problem

[BadBobMo]

3 months can be a number of things make calls and ask questions!