Citimortgage - Complicated - NOD just received

[_SanDiego_]

First and foremost, thank you for providing these forums and, thank you VERY MUCH in advance for any input, guidance and/or suggestions!

Before I begin, let me state this - I am clueless. That pretty much sums up my background on mortgages, loan mods, gov. programs (HAMP) etc.

I am going to list the chain of events leading up to where I am at now, which is 'in receipt of the NOD' (as of last week).

• Mortgage with Citi - it has an investor but I don't know their name. I can get this if needed.

• Defaulted last year and applied for a loan mod myself. Loan mod was approved (4% I/O for 20 months, then 5% P&I - term extended to 40 years) in March of this year, 1st payment was due in April 2009.

• Made first payment on the loan mod in April.

• May - defaulted again and have not paid since. Oct is the 6th month missed on modified loan.

• Last week (1st of Oct), received 3 regular letters and 3 registered letters. It looks like these are all identical copies of what I assume is the NOD. They have a box at the top saying COPY of Document Recorded at San Diego County Recorder. Then it gives us a series of numbers which I assume is the record number and a date of 9/24/2009. The confusing thing on these doc's is that in that box, it goes on to state "has not been compared with original. Original will be returned when process has been completed." This page then goes on to state "Notice of Default and Election to Sell Under Deed of Trust. The back of that notice is signed by a title company, CR Title Services. Again, I assume this is the actual NOD.

• Called Citimortgage yesterday and told the rep (in loss mit) that we had received the NOD and this call was a last effort to see if there was anything they could do to help us out. At the same time, I was also very clear to detail the following;

- We defaulted last year and went through the loan mod process successfully already. The loan mod was approved in April 09, first payment to that mod was due in May, which we paid and then defaulted again. We were in "Loan Mod Signing Remorse." Our fault, we signed, we blew it.

Knowing all of the above, she continued the conversation (better than saying too bad, so sad and hanging up on me I guess).

During my call with her I had an excel spreadsheet in front of me that detailed EXACT Net pay and Expenses for Aug & Sept 09. The rep and I went over these figures. This included NET income (I made that clear.....NET), all household utilities, car payments, insurance payments, credit cards, current 401k loan to self and it's payments (and payoff date) all the way down to dog food expenses. I also gave her a general estimate as to yearly income, GROSS - @ 140k but again reiterated that we had a 401k loan that we were paying back to ourselves. This was reducing our monthly NET income significantly. It is also the reason why we got in to trouble in the first place.

She had me on hold for ages and then came back and said "I just got you pre-approved for 2% P&I for the next 5 years."

I told her that I was under the assumption that Citimortgage wouldn't do a 2nd loan mod within a 12 month period. She then stated that this was Obama's government program, HAMP. She went on to explain that if we agree, she will open a case. She gave me a figure that we would need to pay for a 3 month trail period. She then said that if we successfully completed this 3 month program, they would review our situation again and possibly approve another loan mod that would lock that 2% (P&I) rate in for the next 5 years.

* I was elated but........if it sounds too good to be true......?!

I again mentioned that we were in receipt of the NOD. She said that once she opens a case, the foreclosure process would be put on hold during this 'trial period.'

That's it in a nutshell!

Should I believe that we would be able to get ANOTHER loan mod after we defaulted on the first one?

Should I believe that the foreclosure process would be stopped if we did in fact start making the 'trial period' payments? * This is important * because of the redemption period and our ability to pull a hardship withdrawal from 401k to prevent foreclosure.

Should I believe that we even qualify for the HAMP program? This is a real kicker because I tend to think we do not. HAMP is based on gross income. If we make @ $140k/yr and our recently modified payment was $2170.....I'm thinking we wouldn't qualify. That being said, our net income is heavily impacted by a 401k loan that we are paying back to ourselves and I told her this. She said that the program allows for expenses and considerations such as our 401k loan and based on what she input (including the 401k loan payments), we qualified. Then again, I also realize that I am probably talking to one of the many many employee's manning the phones during this mortgage crisis. One has to wonder exactly how qualified these people really are. I think of them and I think, reading from a script.

I could of course go along with her on this and allow her to "open a case" for this 3 month trial thing but........we have an NOD dated 9/29/09! In California this means (I think) that the Notice of Sale Date could come as early as Jan 2010. If we start payments on the HAMP program, our first payment would be due Dec. 1st and the last would be Feb which is of course, after they could post a sale date and after the redemption period runs out! Also, from what I have already read on these forums, there is no guarantee that they will approve another loan mod even IF we make the payments on time for the trail period.

Or, would it be better to go back and try to negotiate a regular loan mod (again) rather than agreeing to this HAMP thing? That was my original thought. Go back and say, we'd like to keep the house if you'll give us 2% through 2011. Again, 2011 is when our 401k loan is paid back to ourselves in full.

I'm stitting here thinking........do they really want to foreclose? Who really has the leverage here? The loan balance is $522k yet the house value has dropped to low to mid 4's (estimate based on Zillow). Yes, we made a bad budgeting call by taking that 401k loan and not correctly considering it's impact on our future net paychecks. We admit that and are smacking ourselves silly over here. However, we make a decent income and we do want the house. Wouldn't they rather get paid than foreclose? It has a wood shake roof and is in the So. Cal Rice fire zone too (burned right down to our street and then turned back around!). If they take the house, they will more than likely be forced to replace the roof in order to get insured (I am only guessing there but seems logical).

Lastly - IF ALL ELSE FAILS - we can request a hardship withdrawal from 401k to get the funds to pay the total amount needed to stop foreclosure. We would rather do this than lose the house so this redemption period is critical and needs to be considered as we attempt to work this out. If we end up having to do this, we are left with NO income for incidentals.......no money to repair cars, replace tires, fix broken appliances, pay for football leagues, senior pictures, proms etc. This is what we failed to figure when we signed the loan mod back in April. Nobody's fault but our own, we know that.

I am really sorry this post is so lengthy, I am just trying my best to paint an accurate picture of our current situation. I really need advise here.

Thank you so much!

[davephx]

Lots of us are in similar situations at their mercy not to sell homes during the trial period.

The HAMP program was first announced in March 2009 and no one was actually even starting them till a few months later as far as I can tell. It sounds like the March Mod was internal and not a HAMP and if so the one strike your out rule does not apply.

However I doubt if your 401k loan payment will reduce your gross income for the 31% test.

The trials are easy to get on, getting the permanent mod is very hard so far. Many folks have to make six months or 3 months trials etc. And after the sale date they can sell home with no notice at any time. That is what is so terrible about the at least non judicial state processes.

[_SanDiego_]

Hi, Dave,

Yes, our original mod was an internal thing, no government program affiliation.

And, thanks for your thoughts as to the 31% rule and our 401k loan. As soon as she said "the program allows for these considerations," I saw red flags waving.

I find it more likely that the phone reps are just dolling out the HAMP program like Halloween candy, anyone that knocks get's an offer to apply! A convenient way to put us on the back burner and buy more time to clear off the rest of the 6,523.4 files on their desk. Meanwhile, we are sending them payments with no guarantee? I cannot get comfortable with that.

At this point (because we are in receipt of the NOD) I am thinking the HAMP thing may not be the best way to do this.

They have two choices right now. They can have the house (with it's wood shingle roof and decreased value) or, work with us to negotiate a deal that would at least get us past the 2011 401k loan pay-off date which is for us, the root of our problem financially.

Which is the lesser evil? How will Citimortgage see this?

Any suggestions would be appreciated (including specific contacts......people that are known to be able to get things done quickly)!

Sitting here looking at my NOD.

[caldwellb02]

Hi San Diego. I am not with Citi, but even so I can say there is no predicting. Dave is pretty knowledgeable about this so I would definitely heed him as you are.

what you do depends on how hard you want to fight and how willing you are to see that you might not win. The consideration is what's the best way for you to go? For most of us here it makes absolutely no sense that the banks make the choices they do.

If there is an executive team (check the Citi threads) you might want to call them and see what they say.

[_SanDiego_]

Thank you caldwell,

I have seen that list of contacts for Citi customers but it's not clear to me what exactly they do. Are these folks in loss mitigation and can I ask them to work with me or, are they just there to help direct me where to go?

If the latter is the case, can I trust that they will help me find someone that is capable of assisting me rather than just throwing me the HAMP bone?

These forums have been really intersteing to read, I am super thankful this place is made available to us!