update on HAM

[crewof5]

Ok so now I am really confused. I finally got the trial modification paperwork. After reading through all of it, they are telling me to return papers by 9/1 and trial starts 10/1.

We originally got approved for the HAM trial on JUne 11th, they told us our payment was due July 11th and not to be late. We made the payment on July 9th ad got a confirmation number.

We called a few days later to confirm payment again and to see when our paperwork would be sent. We were then told that our trial wasn't processed until July 8th and the payment would be due August 1st and they would apply the payment we made on July 9th to the August payment. They told us the July payment we "missed" would be put on the back of the loan.

Fast forward to today. I am reading the papers and it says trial is set for 10/1, 11/1 and 12/1. I am thinking Whaaaat??? So what is going to happen to August and Septemeber's payments? Will they added to the back as well? I am thinking great this is more interest added to the back of my loan. I will NEVER have any equity at this rate. Plus to add insult to injury we were current on payments when we started. It also states in our paperwork that we can be reported late while in trial, we were originally told credit would be frozen, so now I am worried we will look like we were late for six months by the time the trial ends and what will happpen if we don't get the permanant mod? We will owe thousands of dollars in missed payments and our credit will be ruined. I don't get Citi, I feel like they are stringing all of us along and will just end up foreclosing everyone and reaping the benefits from the bailout money they got. We will also have the added enjoyment of trying to mitigate this mess for my husband's security clearance, no clearance= no job! This really sucks!

[Evan Bedard]

Hi crewof5,

It also states in our paperwork that we can be reported late while in trial, we were originally told credit would be frozen, so now I am worried we will look like we were late for six months by the time the trial ends and what will happpen if we don't get the permanant mod? We will owe thousands of dollars in missed payments and our credit will be ruined. I don't get Citi, I feel like they are stringing all of us along and will just end up foreclosing everyone and reaping the benefits from the bailout money they got. We will also have the added enjoyment of trying to mitigate this mess for my husband's security clearance, no clearance= no job! This really sucks!

Do not start any modification until you get it in writing first. I'm not sure as to why they would ask you to send in a payment for the trial period when the paperwork was not even complete...

As of now I have yet to see a borrower who has completed the trial period recieve a permanent modification and also a few cases where the lender did end up reporting late to the credit bureaus. But most of the time you will not be reported late..

I would call Citi to see if no payment will be required until 10/1?

[crewof5]

Thanks for responding Evan.

I got paperwork via UPS today telling us what our trial payments will be and asking for paystubs, hardship affadavit, tax forms etc. I don't know full terms yet, they are telling me they will send that once we have completed trial and they review our paperwork.

The reason we sent the payment in July was because the guy from Citi told us if we didn't send a payment within 30 days of being pre-approved we would be disqualified from the program. We were preapproved on June 11th. Then when we called back and talked to Aubrey she said the trial would start August1 and we would have until September 1 to send in our paperwork and that they would put the July payment at the end of the loan.

We are planning to call when my husband gets home from work, he is the only one on the loan so I can't talk to Citi.

I will let you know what Citi says, what a nightmare!!

[Chun99]

I have the same experience. I was approved HAM trial on 6/22 and I was told my trial payments are due on 7/22, 8/22 and 9/22. I felt uncomfortable about not paying for regular amount, becuase of the stories on this site. I got trial package yesterday, I have the same trail period as you. My payments are due on 10/1, 11/1 and 12/1, which is the same as yours. I just mailed the package back today.

[pdl1995]

Chun99,
My time frame is about two week's, the later, from yours and I also sent in a payment on 7/14. I also had to send in a payment with the package. I am glad I did send the first, as it might have made things go quicker, I got the papers in under 2&1/2 weeks. I hope things go well and smooth for everyone...including me!

[nickiej]

I had the same thing happen as well, although I haven't made a payment and your experience is why I am a little skeptical of doing so without getting it in writing. I was approved on July 15, which made my payments start Aug 15, however I didn't find out about the apporval until I called on July 21st which I thought would make my payment July 21st. When I questioned the rep about it she said let me let you in on a little secret, you really shouldn't make a payment until you get your paperwork becuase those will be the dates you go by, the date that they give you is based on the computer no the actual processing date that they assign when you paperwork goes out. I am inclined to believe her because of what I have been hearing, but I think I will send the payment and hope that it doesn't get lost in the shuffle because I believe that written agreements out weighs verbal anytime and I even called once to verify and both times had to tell them the date.

[crewof5]

Thank you for your input.

I talked to my husband about it last night. He is so swamped with work this week he is telling me he doesn't have time to call until Friday. I can't call because I am not on the loan.

I am thinking since they are telling us that our trial doesn't start until Oct. 1, we should make our regular August and September payments. I just don't want to get so far behind because I am worried if we don't get final approval for some reason, we will owe a ton of money. We are planning to save some during the trial so we will have cash in reserves in case that happens.

You know we were just following directions when we made that first payment back in JUly. The Citi rep was adament about the importance of not missing that first payment whether we had the paperwork or not. He told us we had to make a payment within 30 days of our phone approval. I really want/need this mod to go through and I didn't want to do anything to scew it up. I feel so helpless with this whole thing.

I would be curious to know if anyone had completed their trial yet and what was the outcome. It's almost as if Citi keeps pushing us all off so no one can find out what the end result will be.

So I will have to be patient until Friday when my husband can call.

[Liz Medrano]

We just made the last trial payment, but are now in limbo. We get a different story each time we call Wells Fargo. The last time we called (this morning) the rep told us it could take another four weeks before we get the final mod docs. After reading many posts though, I am now worried that we won't get approved. Before reading here, I though if the bank approved the trial payments and you followed them to the T, you were automatically approved-as long as the initial information provided was accurate.

When speaking with the bank, should I be asking a specific question regarding our MOD?

[flowergirl110]

Much the same here;
1. If you want to be able to talk to Citi yourself, request an authrization form, takes 10 days or so to arrive, your husband signs it and YOU can talk to them (although you will have to tell them one is on file, they may say no, just be persistant).
2. Write down each persons name and ID # when you talk to them & breif notes about what was said.
3. SAME thing happened to many of us, we made 1st payment BEFORE paperwork, they WILL NOT send it although they say they do, until after you make first payment. You received the exact same packet as many of us.
4. Many of us had date changed many times, often mortgage backer will change as well as CIti because they are so back logged. Go by paperwork, not Citi's verbal statements
5. Make sure they credit you for first payment, when you send in paket it says to send first payment. Get a copy of cancelled check or bank image of payment, attach it into package instead of payment.
6. I read on another post they got a credit freeze only after multiple calls and requests. The paperwork you sign says they can report you late, good luck. We are now "6 months" behind because of this process, but to us right now it doen't matter. Current credit score, 550-600! yuk!
7. All money is held, not applied. It goes into "unapplied" funds until after 3 month period is over and papers are signed.

No one seems to have been through 3 months and recieved/returned modification. We are waiting, what happens to the balance is unknown. We are all anxious for answers and outcomes but your experience seems to be the same as many of us. I will be through in Aug., I will post what happens. However, Citi has acknowleged our ins. payments,paid our taxes which was not the case before (we paid our own) and confirmed by letter our first payment (90 days later) Although SLOOOWW, it leads me to hope that they are counting on moving us forward. Yes, the back of our loan may be higher, but along the way, when things improve we plan to make extra payments to bring the total payments down, or someday sell. I am interested to seeing the balance remaining for final modification (is it higher?) vs. lower interest payments offsetting fees & such.
Hang in there!

[flowergirl110]

I went to a credit couselor (HUD approved and free) asking the same question, should I make payments, should I pay "ahead" of scheduled trial dates ( I had saved money in case). He said to save money, not pay more than what they said and use dates to get it there in time but not too early. WHY? Because you are stating you have a hardship and are requesting modification. If you are making current payments and more, you do not really show hardship. You should be honest, of course, but the bank wants full payment and you are either able to give it to them or not.
He said he saw one go through total paper signing, and it was fair. I don't know. just food for thought from an independent couselor.

[crewof5]

Hi Flowergirl,

Thank you so much for all of your advice. I have been keeping phone records since the beginning. That is what is so confusing about all this. When we spoke to Aubrey last week she told us the payment we made on July 9th would be applied to our first trial payment on August1. She told us to call when we received papaerwork which was yesterday.

She told us the missed payment for July would be added to the back of the loan. We were current when we were preapproved on June 11th. Now I am afraid that they will report us late on July, August and Sept. and then again on Oct, Nov and Dec. during the trial. If they don't approve us we are talking thousands we will owe them to "catch up". The reason we are asking for the mod in the first place is two fold, one we have an arm that will reset in 2012 and there is no way we can refinance before then because we are so underwater and second because my husband was out of work for 3 months at the beginning of the year and once he found a job had to take a paycut. So the current payment we have takes half of our bring home pay.

I am also concerned about how this will affect my husband's security clearance, financial problems are the number one reason they deny them. If he loses his clearance he won't have a job.

[oc949]

This thread clearly shows that the lenders computer systems and operational processes have not properly incorporated the intent of MHA trial periods.

According to the MHA website guidelines, you must be current on your payments to qualify for your trial (plus your mortgage amount must be within an allowed amount, and you cannot be more than 125% underwater - see the MHA website for specifics).

Therefore if you are approved for a trial period then it stands to reason that you cannot be late on your current payment amounts until your trial begins.

So if you want to play it safe under MHA rules do the following:

1. Get the trial agreement in writing, and get confirmation from the lender that your signed paperwork has been received
2. Continue to make your regular payments until the trial period begins
3. Do not switch over to trial payments until you have everything confirmed with the lender that it is OK to do so.

I have not heard of anyone who has successfully completed a trial period. In part this is because the program was only announced in March 2009, and lenders have been slow to put it in place. So hopefully we'll start hearing some success stories late this year.

Finally, keep in mind that all of these rules apply as long as you want to stay eligible for MHA assistance. If you are eligible, then I would recommend you try to stay that way. But if you can't avoid missing payments you can't avoid it. My understanding is that the government is reviewing the requirement that says you have to stay current, because they know that many people cannot. But until they announce a policy change, you have to remain current in order to stay eligible for MHA help.

[flowergirl110]

Oc949, not sure we're talking the same HARP program. I know that a Citimortgage backed by Fannie or Freddie is handled differently than if backed by others. I was only ABLE to qualify if I was two months behind, although program has since then been expanded to others who are upside down, lowered income,etc.

crewof5, your situation sounds like mine so I think my advice still holds. Anyone can also get good info from
1. www.hopenow.com, go to homeowner options.
2. www.freddiemac/avoidforclosure/plan.html
I think it's clear that what's available depends on who backs your mortgage, unfortunately!

[langlang]

I was approved over the phone about 2 weeks ago w/ the LoanSafe exec Citi team, and made my first trial payment right over the phone then (I was told it would be for August 1 payment.)

I just received my paperwork yesterday, as others the trail period in the docs are shifted forward. The docs say to send back the completed forms along with my 'first' trial period payment no later than September 1 (at least that sorta makes sense since I've already made a payment for August 1.) On another sheet, it says the 3 trial payments are due on or before 10/2, 11/1, and 12/2.

The other thing is that even though I was told over the phone I was approved or qualified for the HAM program, the paperwork only says that I may qualify for a Home Affordable Modification. All my financial info should be completely straightforward, so we'll see.

I don't really care if a few grand gets rolled into my balance at the end, that's the least of my worries right now. That would be far preferable than having to make some sort of balloon payment in 4 months if this HAM mod doesn't go through...

The bad news is yeah, all these companies are swamped and the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, plus the HAM program is new and still uncharted territory for all of us. The good news is that I don't think Citi or anyone actually wants to take our houses, and be on the hook for our mortgages...

[abcxyz]

Originally Posted by langlang

I was approved over the phone about 2 weeks ago w/ the LoanSafe exec Citi team, and made my first trial payment right over the phone then (I was told it would be for August 1 payment.)

I just received my paperwork yesterday, as others the trail period in the docs are shifted forward. The docs say to send back the completed forms along with my 'first' trial period payment no later than September 1 (at least that sorta makes sense since I've already made a payment for August 1.) On another sheet, it says the 3 trial payments are due on or before 10/2, 11/1, and 12/2.

The other thing is that even though I was told over the phone I was approved or qualified for the HAM program, the paperwork only says that I may qualify for a Home Affordable Modification. All my financial info should be completely straightforward, so we'll see.

I don't really care if a few grand gets rolled into my balance at the end, that's the least of my worries right now. That would be far preferable than having to make some sort of balloon payment in 4 months if this HAM mod doesn't go through...

The bad news is yeah, all these companies are swamped and the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, plus the HAM program is new and still uncharted territory for all of us. The good news is that I don't think Citi or anyone actually wants to take our houses, and be on the hook for our mortgages...

Langlang,
wow, you were approved 2 weeks ago and already got your paperwork??? I was approved on 6/1/09 and still don't have my paperwork.

I see you say you were approved by citi's loansafe exec team. I did NOT go through citi's loansafe exec team, I went through Citi's Homeowner's Assistance Team (HAT). I am wondering of all the people on here that are in their trial payments with their mod paperwork if they got approved by the loansafe exec team, or by some other avenue such as what I did.

If there two different departments working on the same stuff, maybe there will be differing results as well...I don't know...

[crewof5]

Hi abcxyz,

I just wanted to let you know. I didn't go through the Exec. phone number. I called them when I first applied for the Mod in May and they told me I had to call the regular number.

I am not sure why the Exec. team will talk to some and not to others.

I was preapproved on June 11th, made a trial payment July 9th. When I called two weeks ago to check on things, we were told our trial wasn't processed until JUly 8th. We were told our trial would start August 1 and we had to get paperwork in by Sept. 1.

We got paperwork this week. It does say we have to have paperwork in by Sept 1, but it says trial doesn't start until Oct 1.

I just don't get what they are doing. We are calling today with a list of questions ready. I told my husband I think we should call get the questions answered, call back and ask someone else the same questions to see if the answers match. it seems you get a different answer everytime you call.

Good luck, I hope you get your papers soon!

[flowergirl110]

Great strategy Crewof5!
Just to add, I went the regular numbers, many of them were given to me (at least 25 calls in April,May & June) but I ended up usually talking to loss mitigation. I was told 1 out of 10 times would I actually get a specialist. I was never given an extension or rep to work with, I never received a call back, but I did everything I needed to & so far so good. Last trial payment due Sept. 8.

[Bert C]

Hi Crewof5. I am supposed to be starting my trial mod payments this August but am waiting for the Fedex package (maybe arriving Monday). I'm concerned with what you are saying. If I didn't know better it would almost seem they are stretching it to collect as much money even before the trial period starts. Are the payments you've made counting towards the trial??

[jillybean]

Same thing happened to me. I was approved verbally over the phone in early June. Was told by someone (not from executive response team, but from Loss Mit.) that once the verbal approval is made you have 30 days to make the first trial payment which would have been by July 8th (or so this person told me). When I hadn't received paperwork to verify any of this by late June, I called Christian at the exec. response team and he took a payment by phone, this was June 26th. I was under the assumption this was the first trial payment, but then I received the paperwork on July 3rd which said the trial payments were due July 30th, Aug. 30th, and Sept. 30th.

So I called the number listed in the paperwork (not exec. response) and they said, "Technically you'll be making 4 payments, the first one really wasn't part of the modification yet". That kind of irritated me, but either way, it was a payment and applied to my account so whatever. I sent the trial mod paperwork back and they received it July 24th, which included a check for what I assumed was payment #2, but according to the paperwork was probably payment #1. Got a call today from an underwriter who now is processing it, and she said it will be processed within 2-3 days (assuming everything she needs is there) and I should have the permanent mod paperwork within 10-14 days. So I will have to wait and see what date the permanent mod starts when I get the final paperwork to see how many trial payments will have been processed before the mod is finalized.