Home Affordable Modification on 40 yr mortgage and navigating Chase

[azdmsmith]

Maybe my letters got some attention because people are at least calling me now instead of the other way around. I got a call Thursday asking for updated bank statements because back when I originally applied my statements were from February. I’m just a bit concerned because the original guidelines indicated that a homeowner could qualify with a “cash reserve” of up to 3Xs the borrower’s monthly debt payments. The latest FannieMae guidelines allow for a cash reserve of up to 3xs the current mortgage (vs. total debt) payments AND a debt coverage ratio of <1.2. I am ok on the debt coverage ratio, but my cash reserve was slightly high because I hadn’t made my June payment. So, since it appeared I was making some headway without being 31 days late, I would have incurred late fees beginning today, and I needed to use some cash, I went ahead and made my June payment over the weekend. I hope I don’t regret that.
Wouldn’t you know that after faxing my bank statements within an hour of receiving the voice mail last week, when I called to follow up the person that called me was out of the office beginning Friday through tomorrow. Here we go again with the stalling and delays. The only good thing is that my contact from executive resolutions called me to follow up for a change so I told him about the latest delay.

[azdmsmith]

I received a call today indicating that my paperwork was ready to send to underwriting and they just needed to complete a "drive by value" of my home. She said I should hear something by Thursday or Friday of this week. Still very cautiously optimistic, but it's really nice to have my phone calls returned and to talk to people that seem to know what they are talking about since that was never the case with the home retention group.

[lqb75lo]

you forgot send letter to first lady office. that works.

[azdmsmith]

Of course I didn’t hear anything last week so I left a message on Friday (6/19). My call was returned within a few minutes. I was told that the “underwriters just completed training” and my file is “at the top of the list” so they would be reviewing my file today or tomorrow, but the person I am working with is out of the office today so would call me tomorrow.

So the program was announce in March and nearly 4 months later the underwriters are completing training? Granted they are few and far between, but at least one person in this forum who was current on payments was place in a trial period, so SOMEBODY is trained.

In other news the Better Business Bureau was starting to sound like Chase for a while. I filed a complaint against Chase on line. I received an email back saying I filed with the wrong office and my complaint was being forwarded to another location. I received a second email from where it was forwarded and it said they were the wrong office and forwarded my compliant to a third location. I was notified last week that the complaint had been accepted and forwarded to Chase. FYI, the correct BBB to file complaints against Chase Home Mortgage is:
The Better Business Bureau Serving Metropolitan New York
257 Park Avenue South
New York, NY 10010
Phone: 212-533-7500 | Fax: 212-477-4912
complaints@newyork.bbb.org
I also received a rather lengthy response from the Congressional Oversight Panel. It may have been a form letter, but at least they took the time to read my letter and respond. This is an excerpt:
Thank you for taking the time to write to the Congressional Oversight Panel regarding the foreclosure crisis and foreclosure mitigation programs implemented under the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP). ffice:office" />
The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act that created the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) and the Congressional Oversight Panel explicitly directs the Panel to review the effectiveness of foreclosure mitigation efforts undertaken by Treasury. In accordance with this mandate, the Panel has taken a number of steps to oversee the development and implementation of foreclosure mitigation programs under the TARP, including holding two hearings to focus on the foreclosure crisis and using our March report, entitled “Foreclosure Crisis: Working Toward a Solution,” to concentrate on foreclosure mitigation efforts under the TARP and to discuss ongoing challenges to implementing an effective foreclosure mitigation program. The full text of this Panel report is available at http://cop.senate.gov/documents/cop-030609-report.pdf.
While Congress did not provide the Panel with the authority to address directly the problems of individual citizens, we are very much aware of the pain and hardship that so many Americans are enduring during these difficult times. We genuinely appreciate your sharing your thoughts, your stories, and your thoughtful questions with us. You can rest assured that we will take them into account as we continue to work to ensure that efforts undertaken by Treasury are effective not only in stabilizing the financial system but also in addressing the foreclosure crisis at the root of the economic downturn.

[Bert C]

I made a call to the modification department this afternoon and was told by someone there that my mod thru the Obama plan didnt look like it would go thru. He did say that the underwriters notes indicated I did maybe fit in under one of their many other plans. The gentleman also stated that their system was being worked on and wouldnt be available to run my numbers until possibly the end of the week. I dont know if I beilive him, yet what benefit would be to out right lie like that. He sisnt collecting any money.

I called the Exec. team and spoke to the same gentleman there that advised me last week I would be receiving a call from someone. I explained to him no one had called and he checked and found I had been assigned someone and gave me her name. He said he would have her call me soon. Do you know if this person will be able to look into my file and give me the true info? Has anyone ran into a similar situation as this? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks. Oh, I am currently 3 months late and really don't know if this will help the process or actually not help. Please, any insight by one of you is greatly appreciated.

BC

[cliffdweller]

Hi Bert,
When I called the Exec Team I was really happy with the response...I felt I got the true information. Interesting that they are saying it won't go through....is your debt to income ratio REALLY high, or have you had a restructure before?

I think it is good to plan your exit strategy, even if the mod comes through, because it will help you "relax into" whatever outcome there is. We will go live at my mom's..fortunately she has a cabin where we can stay for free until we get back on our feet...don't want that, believe me, and will fight till the end, but good to have a plan just in case.

[Bert C]

If I factor in my insurance and taxes Im at about 44% DTI. I'm just wondering if the person I spoke to at the Mod Department gave me good info or just wanted to give me anything to move on to the next call? Just doesnt seem right. Wondering if I should make a payment at this point and see what move they make next..hmmm.

[azdmsmith]

I am so disgusted, frustrated, angry, you name it! I applied for a modification on 3/5/09 and remain current on my payments (FannieMae backed mortgage serviced by Chase). I FINALLY got my file to underwriting where my modification was DENIED. “Russ” from executive resolutions called to tell me it was denied, but seems clueless about the home affordable modification program and could not even provide me a reason for denial. All he wanted to talk about was that he would respond in writing to my Better Business Bureau complaint.
Here is the response that was sent to the BBB by Chase:
The loan is less than a year old and is a 40 year loan at 5.8% interest. Based on the financial information given to Chase these payments should be able to continue....In the future you can apply again by contacting Homeowners Assistance Department at 800 446 8939
That’s all I get after almost 4 months of waiting! The guidelines require that the loan originated on or before January 1, 2009 (NOT that it needs to be more than one year old) and that the mortgage payment is more than 31% of gross income (regardless of the interest rate and length of loan). My loan originated before Jan 1 and my payment is 43% of my income because my pay has been reduced due to mandatory furloughs.
I’m absolutely at wits end. Chase did not properly apply the home affordable modification guidelines and refuses to return my calls (I’ve left 4 messages for an exec resolution supervisor). I don’t even know who else to contact to require them to apply the guidelines correctly.

[chasepmt2hot-firefighter]

Who is the supervisor you are calling? Maybe you have the wrong supervisor...

[chasepmt2hot-firefighter]

I'm amazed at how they treat people...

[azdmsmith]

Kevin Cook who I am told is a supervisor in exec resolutions

[Calli09]

Azdsmith, I am so sorry to hear this for you. Stay on them, demand something else. Ask them for a regular mod or something. If you qualify, then you qualify, but if they say no, they NEED to be able to tell you why. Ask for the reason in writing. Go to the top! I am STILL waiting to hear, they posted my 3rd payment on June 12, still NOTHING!!

[Stuart C]

Azdmsmith , I know I just got signed a 1 month forbearance agreement so I can be more than 31 days late. I'm told they can't run me through the computer to even to see if I qualify to start the 3 month trial. I know those aren't the Obama rules, but they seem to be Home Retention's rules. My person at the Executive Board handed me back over to them. I've made my 1 forbearance payment and now wait to see if I go the 3 month trial. You did say you were current, right?

[snapple candy]

Az,
Get ready for another round with Chase. There is nothing in the guidelines that state the loan has to be more than a year old. I turned down a bs mod back in March and demanded Chase revisit the mod under the MHA program. I contacted my senators, I filed a complaint with the OCC, and I contacted an attorney whom wrote to Chase's attorney for our state and called numerous times to the Exec resolution. It took me a good 2 mths of raising holy hell. The supervisor whom told me I wasnt gonna get a better deal before all of a sudden changed her tune.
You might want to have an attorney submit a demand letter and Qualified Written request for a detailed accounting of your account as well as documents showing ownership of the loan. I was served a Notice of Sale where it states within the Notice if I disagree with the amount owed on the loan listed in it, I have 30 days to inform them in writing by certified mail. I did so and I believe the day or within a day of him receiving my request to cough it up, I was suddenly approved for the MHA trial Mod program. I really dont know what worked to be honest with you but I just kept demanding and answer in writing, they would not, I always cc'd everything to the OCC and would call the OCC up and then fax them updates constantly. In general I became a real pain in the arsh.

[shade]

AZDMSMITH -

I have spoken to Kevin many times his boss is Chris Nunez.
So they are denying it based on your loan being less than a yr old?

[azdmsmith]

Thanks to all for your support. My loan is current and yes, one of the original reasons for my denial (and what Chase reported to the BBB) is that my loan is less than 1 year old. What is OCC? I really want to avoid the expense of an attorney if it is at all possible and may use NACA if I have to start all over.


I did get a call back and the latest reasons I was given for my HAMP denial are that I have too much money in the bank and my existing mortgage is a 40 yr mortgage.


The original guidelines indicated that an individual could not have more than 3 months of total debt payments available as "emergency funds". The latest FannieMae guidelines now indicate that an individual cannot have the equivalent of more than three months mortgage payments available. I had planned to NOT pay my June mortgage payment because it appeared I was not getting assistance since I was current on my mortgage. When it looked like I was making headway I went ahead and made my payment on June 14 to avoid late fees. Well wouldn't you know that payment didn't clear before my bank statement closed so I had that "extra" money that cleared my account the day after I sent my bank statement to Chase. That, coupled with accounts that are in my kids names and SS#s but appear on my statements put me just over the equivalent of 3 months mortgage payments in the bank. So, I would strongly caution anyone thinking about not making a payment just to try to get the process moving along to think carefully about ALL the impacts of that. While it looks like I have money if you take a snapshot of my accounts on payday, within a couple days as automatic payments hit for utilities, car loan, HOA, etc., the picture changes very quickly. My divorce agreement addresses the kids bank accounts as theirs (vs. liquid assets available to me) but I don’t even want to get into that with Chase. Now that my mortgage payment cleared I am well below the maximum "emergency fund" allowance even with the kids accounts.

The 40 year issue is what really worries me. I have a 40 year mortgage because I knew from day 1 that would be the only way I could afford to keep my home. I was told that part of the reason for the denial was that my mortgage is “already at 40 years”. It is my understanding that the guidelines require FIRST reducing the interest rate to as low as 2%, and if the payment is still more than 31% of gross income THEN extending the mortgage terms. While it appears the guidelines are silent on addressing an existing 40 mortgage, they certainly don’t exclude 40 year mortgages. I would think that common sense would tell them that since reducing the interest gets me to the 31% payment without having to go as low as 2%, they should be able to do that and stop there. I guess that makes to much sense!
I vented my frustration at the denial and was told I could fax in my current bank account info and they would submit it to underwriting "a third time" (I think only because they know I’ll continue to complain to whoever will listen). I'm not sure I believe that it was sent twice and denied because the guidelines require that financial info be no more than 90 days old (mine is 120 days+ old since they took so long to process my app), and I have not completed the revised application that is now required and is on the Chase website. I'll get everything together and fax it again to see what happens next.

All I am asking is that Chase follow the guidelines. I will keep pushing and use whatever resources I can to try and make that happen.

[shade]

I would question the guidelines that say you cant have more than 3 months. If I am not mistaking I remember *** answering this question and the guidelines dont require you to have less than X in the bank.

[MAXIE19]

The guidelines do actually state that you cannot have more than three months of cash reserves. See HAMP supplemental Directive 09-01 (April 6, 2009)

"The borrower documents a financial hardship and represents that (s)he does not have sufficient liquid assets to make the monthly mortgage payments by completing a Home Affordable Modification Program Hardship Affidavit and provides the required income documentation. The documentation supporting income may not be more than 90 days old (as of the date the servicer is determining HAMP eligibility).

"Underwriting

Hardship Affidavit.......

Every borrower and co-borrower seeking a modification, whether in default or not, must sign a Hardship Affidavit that attests to and describes one or more of the following types of hardship:

................

5. A lack of sufficient cash reserves to maintain payment on the mortgage and cover basic living expenses at the same time. Cash reserves include assets such as cash, savings, money market funds, marketable stocks or bonds (excluding retirement accounts and assets that serve as emergency fund - generally equal to three times the borrower's monthly debt payments).

[onachase43]

I think everyone has had major issues with Chase. I am currently 4 months behind on my mortgage. But called them before I was ever even late. I have had nothing but run around. Now I am afraid thT i WILL BE DENIED FOR "THE OTHER programs" and be left with no house to call home. I will continue to pray for all of us.

[azdmsmith]

So the original reason my HAMP was denied according to the response the executive resolution person gave to the BBB was that my loan was less than a year old, was a 40 year loan, and according to my financial info I should be able to make the payments.

His boss then returned my call and after I told him the guidelines say nothing about a loan having to be more than a year old, he said it was because it was a 40 year mortgage and I have too much money in the bank. I told him nothing in the guidelines indicate that a 40 mortgage does not qualify for assistance. Doesn’t it seem like something is wrong with the fact that 4 months into this I have to explain the guidelines to them?

My analyst then returned my call and she said the only reason for the denial was that I had too much money in the bank.

The guidelines (FannieMae Announcement 09-05R) indicate that the imminent default screen must be applied to borrowers who are current, appear eligible for a mod, and have suffered a hardship. The imminent default screen includes the requirement that the borrower’s cash reserves are less than three times the current monthly mortgage payment, including tax and insurance payments.

Although executive resolutions included other reasons for my denial that are contrary to the HAMP, at least it appears the analyst knows what she is talking about (3 people, 3 different answers, only one of which is accurate according to the guidleines). I met the cash reserve requirement the day after my last bank statement closed (even if they insist on including accounts in my kid’s names and SS#s). She told me to fax in updated financial info and she will resubmit. My statement cycle closes next week so as soon as I can access updated statements I will give it a shot again. I am encouraged that they seem to have gotten past the fact that my mortgage is already a 40 year loan. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[snapple candy]

Good luck AZ. Those homeowners whom are educated on the process it seems have to educate these people at Chase and just keep hammering away at them to get what they have a right to be considered for. I never even gave them my kids bank accounts...they have little in them anyways.
As you know this is a process that takes months and you have to be willing to keep going even though they tell you no. Give it your best, that is all you can do. I wish you the strength, energy, and patience to pull this off. God knows you gotta have it to deal with Chase circus. It truly is a roller coaster ride. I always liken to Mr. Toads Wild Ride at Disneyland.

[MAXIE19]

This is why this forum is so invaluable. Snapple is right. Staying educated is the key. Read.....read....read......over and over again all pertinent governmental guidelines, stay informed.......read up on the experiences of others.....find out what worked for them.......when in doubt ask questions....even if not in doubt, keep us informed of all significant developments, it will help others who are similarly situated but unsure of the process.....revise your submissions if need be, incorporate the winning formulas.....be persistent and patient.....above all, advocate as strongly as you can for yourself but be respectful at all times.

[gordilox86]

Azdmsmith,

Thank you for posting this information. My third Trial Payment occurs August 1st and like you I was current when I entered the Trial Period.

No where in the Freddie Mac guidelines is there mention that a previous 40yrs mortgage term, or a mortgage of less than one year, is cause for denial under HMP. Just as we knocked down the barriers of Chase coveted Trial Period Plan I can bet the actual modification will be a heavily guarded fortress.

All the information you've received, except the "cash on hand" are simply smokescreens setup by Chase to confuse. Chase has paid back the Tarp and has made public statements they will be playing hardball with the invasive provisions of the U.S. government programs (front page WSJ 07.15.09).

Was your denial made in writting?

If so, I strongly advise retaining an attorney to submit a demand letter and Qualified Written request for a detailed accounting of your account as well as documents showing ownership of the loan.

If not, keep calling, sending letters and complaining to your investor (Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae), Chase is misapplying investor guidelines. Also, if the last word is a denial, demand that it be put in writing.

Please keep your progress posted. Thank you

[snapple candy]

gordi,
Nice to see you still around. How is life since you got your trial mod? Was curious if you got your trial mod contract back from Chase?
I asked for mine and they said they are "on hold". I talked to very active HUD counselor in my state and he said he has never heard of that before. Just curious if you have experienced this.

[azdmsmith]

Thanks everyone for your support. I did not get the denial in writing directly from Chase, but they did respond in writing to my BBB complaint saying I was denied because my loan was less than 1 year old and was a 40 year mortgage and according to my financial info I should be able to make the payments. The payment is way more than 31% of my gross income so I have to assume they meant cash reserves when they said financial info. I replied back to BBB referencing the HAMP guidelines but I think at this point the complaint goes on record as unresolved.

I should have my bank statement tomorrow that will show my cash reserves at less than 3 times my current mortgage payment. Also, the guidelines state that income documentation cannot be more than 90 days old. Since it has been more than 4 months since my original application was filed and Chase has made some changes and additions to the application form, I completed the new forms and put together updated documentation so that it is all current (I was careful to reference my original application of March 5 and that this was simply an update since my documentation was out of date according to the guidelines). I will fax it tomorrow and see what happens.

Last Friday my kids saw someone taking pictures of the outside of the house and got a little freaked out. Funny that Chase told me my application was denied yet weeks later someone is taking pictures? I can't think of any other reason why someone would take pictures.

Lastly, I did get an email back from SIGTARP. It reads, "...The information you have provided is important to us.
However, we do not have any jurisdiction over the issues that you have
presented in your email.
Chase Bank USA is regulated by the Office of the Comptroller of the
Currency (OCC). Please contact the OCC's Customer Assistance Group via
phone 1-800-613-6743 or via email at customer.assistance@occ.treas.gov
or via mail at the following address:
Comptroller of the Currency
Customer Assistance Group
1301 McKinney Street
Suite 3450
Houston, TX 77010..."

I'll give my resubmission a little time then follow up with OCC.