Help "Deed of Trust" - how do I read this thing, to determine who owns my loan? - Mortgage Forum

erzulie · 02-09-2010, 08:13 PM

Mercury! Need your help here. I am such a nimrod at these things.

Okay, "Deed of Trust".

Says ""Borrower" is me

"Lender" is "JP MORGAN CHASE BANK NA"

further says "Lender is a Bank, organized and existing under the laws of the USA"

Lender's address is 1111 Polaris Parkway, Columbus, Ohio, 43240

"Lender is the beneficiary under this Security Instrument"

Then goes on, "Trustee is COMMONWEALTH LAND TITLE COMPANY"

What does any or all of this mean? That my loan is owned by Chase? That doesn't help me. Chase is claiming that my loan is an "investor loan", but ... I can't for the life of me figure out any information about any other investor from this Deed of Trust. And there isn't anything on file since the date this was filed, back in April of 2007.

HELP. I meet with the Chase folks in person tomorrow afternoon, I want to make absolutely certain I have the facts in hand before I go to "battle" with them.

Oh, and even more interesting - the footnote on this form says "CALIFORNIA - Single Family - Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac UNIFORM INSTRUMENT"

I think that just pertains to the form though. Boy do I wish my loan was a Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac loan, sigh .....

JoJoJodyJo · 02-09-2010, 08:29 PM

The servicer of your mortgage is the company you make your payments to. The owner of the mortgage is the one who put up the money. Since Chase said it's an investor loan, that tells me that they are servicing it for the investor. That means that they will need to get investor approval on any modifications they make with you. Hope that helps.

erzulie · 02-09-2010, 08:40 PM

JoJoJodyJo - that is exactly what has been happening to me. Thus, I contacted the County to get the most recent copy of my Trust Deed, as I was astutely guided to obtain this document, that from a legal perspective, any investor on my loan is required to be disclosed on this document. I can't find any evidence of any "investor". That's what I have been trying to clarify, once and for all.

JoJoJodyJo · 02-09-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erzulie

JoJoJodyJo - that is exactly what has been happening to me. Thus, I contacted the County to get the most recent copy of my Trust Deed, as I was astutely guided to obtain this document, that from a legal perspective, any investor on my loan is required to be disclosed on this document. I can't find any evidence of any "investor". That's what I have been trying to clarify, once and for all.

The servicer is the one you have to deal with on your loan mod. Think of it this way - the investor is someone who put up the money but doesn't want to deal with collecting the payments. So they pay the servicer (usually a bank) to be the liaison between you and them. Sort of like a property manager is the liaison between you and the property owner if you were a renter. 99% of the time the investor will not speak to you, and probably wouldn't have any information on your loan if they did speak to you.

Having to get investor approval just means they have to compare the terms of your modification to the guidelines the investor has said they will accept. It's very similar to underwriting and approving a loan in the first place - just have to make sure it fits the program.

Does that help?

erzulie · 02-09-2010, 08:58 PM

Thanks, JoJoJodyJo - but I am already aware of all of that. Part of my problem is that I've been trying to get approved on a Mod for over 6 months now. One person at Chase tells me "Your Loan is a Chase Owned Loan", then another person tells me "no, your loan is an Investor Owned Loan", then someone else from another department tells me, "no, they don't know what they are talking about -Chase owns your loan", then someone else tells me the contrary ... rinse and repeat. I've had exactly a dozen different iterations of who owns my loan. No concise info as of yet. Which is why I followed the suggestion of Mercury, to obtain a copy of my Deed of Trust - hoping it would clear up this confusion once and for all. Now, I've gotten the Deed of Trust in my hands, finally - I just have NO idea how to read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Help!

JoJoJodyJo · 02-09-2010, 09:08 PM

Sorry you are having troubles. Just remember it could be worse. My dad has been in the process since April 2009 and still has no resolution. He has been getting the run around for almost a year. During that time, he went permanently disabled, used up all his savings and is now three months behind on his payment. Despite weekly calls - nothing. All he can count on is either a lie or a run around. He even had to send in his entire packet of supporting documentation because "oops" it was accidentally shredded.

Just be thankful your lender is working with you - mine refused to work with me and after five years of perfect payments and perfect credit - they sold my house 7 months and 7 days after I missed my first payment. They refused to work with me because I had no verifiable income. I couldn't get unemployment because I had worked on commission my entire career, the bank wouldn't consider my husband's income because he wasn't on the note with me (I bought the house by myself), and they refused to add him to the loan so his income could be considered. Finally (and to add insult to injury) they wouldn't let him buy the house even though he had perfect credit and was fully qualified because it was a Non-Arms Length Transaction. They ended up selling my home for $50,000 less than we offered them for it. In the shortest possible time allowed in the state of California. Since then, we've been renting and it's turned into a total nightmare because we are now at the mercy of a mentally unstable landlord who literally moved in an accessory building and took over the entire property.

erzulie · 02-09-2010, 09:13 PM

My lender actually ISN'T working with me. They MIGHT work with me, however, if I can clear up who owns my loan.

Does anyone have any insight, help, guidance? I am at a loss. I have been scouring google for terms such as "Trustee", "Beneficiary" on Deeds of Trust ... none of it is clear to me.

Sigh.

JoJoJodyJo · 02-09-2010, 09:19 PM

Erzulie, what I've been trying to explain to you is that it doesn't matter if you find out who your investor is or not. The investor will not speak to you. They will require you to work with your servicer - Chase Bank. Finding out the name of your investor is an exercise in frustration and will get you nowhere.

For all you know, it could be a pool of investors who have put their money together to purchase say $5 Million in mortgage notes. Each investor gets a portion of the payment commiserate with the percentage they invested. There really isn't anyone who you can talk to at the investors' offices, if there even is an office. It could be some rich guy in Dubai, a huge conglomerate of corporations, or some little old lady in Pasadena for all you know.

erzulie · 02-09-2010, 09:44 PM

JoJoJodyJo - I don't think you understand.

The group of folks at Chase who have said that my loan is an INVESTOR loan, are the same folks who are telling me that I am not a candidate for any loan modification.

The group of other folks at Chase, the ones who have said that my loan is OWNED BY CHASE, have instead told me that I am a GREAT candidate for a loan modification.

THAT is why I need this particular component of my situation clarified.

If it IS an INVESTOR LOAN (Which I have ZERO evidence that it is), then ... I understand, I may be sh$t out of luck. BUT, if it is CHASE OWNED instead - which I think it is, but, want to be certain - then the folks at the HOPE Hotline whom I am working with, have a GREAT DEAL of leverage with Chase over. Which is why it is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THAT I DETERMINE WHO OWNS MY LOAN - EITHER CHASE (GOOD) OR SOME PRIVATE INVESTOR (BAD).

I hope that makes sense. And brings me back to my point - does ANYONE know how to help me read this Deed of Trust???????

JoJoJodyJo · 02-09-2010, 09:54 PM

I went back up to your first post and re-read it - it says LENDER - JP Morgan Chase Bank - they are your investor.

erzulie · 02-09-2010, 10:27 PM

So, two more questions, related to that:

If my loan was owned by some private investor - under "Lender", it would say something different than what it says, "JP MORGAN CHASE"?

If the loan was originally owned by Chase, and, Chase later sold the loan to an investor - they are required to file that as public record - and an amended Deed of Trust would be on file, right? (the most recent one on file, was this one - that shows "JP MORGAN CHASE" as the Lender) ....

Thanks, everyone, for your help ....

JoJoJodyJo · 02-09-2010, 10:28 PM

Right - if it was someone other than Chase, it would say. An assignment would be recorded if the loan was sold to another investor.

Mercury213 · 02-10-2010, 02:08 AM

From what you've posted, Chase owns your loan --or did at the time the Deed of Trust was recorded. The Fannie / Freddie thing is a reference only , I think. Not sure.

Are there no other documents, no transfers of beneficiary or anything more current? If not, then my gut says Chase owns your loan. If you can get them to put in writing or on tape that they don't, that might be fun.

Mercury213 · 02-10-2010, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erzulie

So, two more questions, related to that:

If my loan was owned by some private investor - under "Lender", it would say something different than what it says, "JP MORGAN CHASE"?

If the loan was originally owned by Chase, and, Chase later sold the loan to an investor - they are required to file that as public record - and an amended Deed of Trust would be on file, right? (the most recent one on file, was this one - that shows "JP MORGAN CHASE" as the Lender) ....

Thanks, everyone, for your help ....

Right. In some contracts a servicer can be referred to as "Lender" but I don't think that can be the case on the DoT.

persistance · 02-10-2010, 09:11 AM

maybe you can send a QRW to your servicer, asking who your lender is.
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/ramh/res/reslettr.cfm

check this out
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/ramh/res/respamor.cfm
When borrowers apply for a mortgage loan, mortgage brokers and/or lenders must give the borrowers:

a Mortgage Servicing Disclosure Statement, which discloses to the borrower whether the lender intends to service the loan or transfer it to another lender. It also provides information about complaint resolution.
If the borrowers don't get these documents at the time of application, the lender must mail them within three business days of receiving the loan application.

Are you with the same servicer that you were paying at the origination of your loan? If not,check this out
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/ramh/res/reslettr.cfm
Loan Transferred to New Servicer. Your loan servicer is required to notify you in writing at least 15 days before the servicing of your loan is transferred to a new servicer.

A lot to read,but it may be very helpful

good luck, keep up the fight

Jillian118 · 02-10-2010, 10:00 AM

Hi Erzulie, I just got mine as well. I was originally looking for the term "beneficiary" under section C it says "lender is the beneficiary" and has washington mutual as lender.

since Chase now owns them im assuming its a chase loan.

I did have a lady tell me that as well, but it didn't hurt to confirm.

erzulie · 02-10-2010, 10:25 AM

I am jumping for joy at this information. It feels SO good to have something concise for once, to have in hand, when I talk to them.

And yes, Mercury - there is NOTHING on file since the date of this Deed of Trust. I combed the records of the County Clerk - nothing was filed since this one. So, it seems all evidence points to that Chase has NOT sold my loan to anyone.

This is a HUGE help to me, as the excuse they were using for not helping me, was because my loan was an "investor loan", they kept saying. Seems that is not the case. If they try to tell me that again, can I ask them to prove it? Will they back down, if I have the deed in hand (which I do)?

I have an appointment at 4 pm to go meet with the Chase Home Preservation Center in person .....