What If ???

[mjmrms]

First and foremost, I wanted to thank everyone for this forum! It is both informative and filled with compassion for those who are struggling. Here is a timeline of my story and hopefully someone can help me with my question what if?

Timeline April 2009 Wife and I both receive pay cuts and fall approx 2 months behind on our Chase Fannie backed mortgage. We were paying late for the last 8 months prior June: We spoke to a Chase collections Rep Who tells me that we may qualify for a loan Mod through the Presidents new HAMP program. Some prelim questions about our income, bills Fannie or Freddy backed loan that the rep confirmed and bingo! We are put on a 3 month trial Mod for 1,065 less a month. Paperwork came in the mail within a few days for the perm Modification app we signed and sent back. I asked the rep what happens to us if after the 3 months we are denied and the rep said Chase will work something else out and we would not go into foreclosure. The late fees would be put to the back of the loan and the loan would basically start fresh with the old payment.July 1^st trial mod pmt made on time, August 1^st Pmt made on time Sept 1^st Pmt on time

Mid September I call Chase to see where we are re: the permanent Mod. The ride begins here hold on tight! The rep tells me they are missing almost 50% of the docs I sent via fed x to them months ago, so since I made copies of everything I send it back to them. Late September we get a FedEx in the main missing form 4506T, Itemized monthly bills (which were not asked for in the original paperwork) We resend and confirm that they have everything. We are advised to keep making the trial payments until we here what’s going on. October 1^st make another trial payment, another Fed X comes mid October they need the ss# on the form 4506T form (my mistake) immediately fax it and confirm receipt. Receive trial mod coupons in the Fed X until Jan 2010! November 1^st another trial Mod payment 5^th one made now! Called last week to find out that all Docs’ have been “perfected” and sent to underwriting for final approval. Rep gave me the underwriters name but no contact info available. Was advised to keep make trial payments and wait. I raised the question to this Rep “what if at this point we are denied the perm Mod what happens to all the late fees and the 1,065.00 short pay for the last 5 approaching 6 months approx $10k” She said “it will all be due”

After almost having a heart attack I told her that this was my biggest concern upon agreeing to the trial Mod but the rep that set me up on the Mod said that we would not get hit with a huge bill at the end of this. I explained the rep told me that it would be put at the back of the loan. She replied “I have never heard of that”

So does anyone know what happens if this request for a perm Mod gets denied? I’m being proactive now in seeking a Loan Mod Attorney if Chase can’t do it for free. Can Chase just simply say ok the trial Mod didn’t work and now you owe 10k in late fee’s and short pmts? We would have been in a better position being late every month and stretching money to make the payments. Any advise anyone?

[jennyc]

Hello mjmrms, I am new here and have asked the same question under the modification thread.

Chase is showing my account $7000 behind and last payment received on 9/01/09!! I have made a trial payment every month starting 9/09 and am wondering what they have done with the money? I know they put the money aside until they reach a full "old payment" but they only reduced my payment by $300 so they should have applied at least two payments!!

Also, what happens if we are denied? I have heard that per the trial agreement we signed they can begin the foreclosure process immediately if they so choose.

Has anyone on here had this happen? I mean, what happens once we are denied~do we have to pay all the back owed money as well the old payment? Anyone here know?

[sealag]

The very same thing happened to me. I was put on the HAMP and paid May, June and July. I was told by Chase to keep paying. I paid August and September and received a letter on September 4th stating that I was denied with reason being hardship not permanet nature. I decided to see a real estate attorney and he told me to stop paying and to live there as long as I can. He said the banks are a bunch of crooks and screwing people over. I am moving into a rental the first of December.

[jennyc]

Thanks for the reply sealag, I think it's the not knowing that is killing me!

I am trying to resign myself to the fact that I am going to lose my house. I am now just trying to figure out my timeframe. How will I know when they go ahead with the foreclosure process? Will they send me a letter in the mail at least? Does anyone have a timeline for Washington state?

[mjmrms]

Originally Posted by sealag

The very same thing happened to me. I was put on the HAMP and paid May, June and July. I was told by Chase to keep paying. I paid August and September and received a letter on September 4th stating that I was denied with reason being hardship not permanet nature. I decided to see a real estate attorney and he told me to stop paying and to live there as long as I can. He said the banks are a bunch of crooks and screwing people over. I am moving into a rental the first of December.

This whole thing is crazy with not knowing. I cant beleive that the real estate att gave you that advise! I just have this funny feeling that I will NOT be approved and that I jumped into this trial Mod to quickly. What a mess! On the other hand I know people who have been denied the loan Mod through there bank and hired an attorney and it got done within a few weeks for a price of course

[wonderland]

I think everyone is in the same boat. I was only 1 month behind shen we were offered the trial modification. We were offered it in May and we did not maek our first payment until July 1st. So by the time we made the 1st payment we were two months behind. We have now made 5 trial payments and are effectively 6 months behind. They just sent us a Debt Validation Notice that says we owe $16K in interest and late payments. It is like they wanted everyone to get further behind. It almost seems unfair. They should have put a provision in the HAMP program that says all payments are suspened during the trial and if you aren't approved they can't make you pay it in a lump.

[mjmrms]

Originally Posted by wonderland

I think everyone is in the same boat. I was only 1 month behind shen we were offered the trial modification. We were offered it in May and we did not maek our first payment until July 1st. So by the time we made the 1st payment we were two months behind. We have now made 5 trial payments and are effectively 6 months behind. They just sent us a Debt Validation Notice that says we owe $16K in interest and late payments. It is like they wanted everyone to get further behind. It almost seems unfair. They should have put a provision in the HAMP program that says all payments are suspened during the trial and if you aren't approved they can't make you pay it in a lump.

Im just wondering if your loan is backed by Fannie or Freddy things work more in your favor? I will just have to wait. I just dont know if I should be seeking help from a third party modification attorney? Cant even sleep anymore ya know?

[sealag]

The attorney gave me that advice because home prices have dropped so much and banks are not taking off principal and they are not doing a lot of modifications. Mine is probably upside down by as much as 85K or more. I live in the Central Florida area.

[wonderland]

I can't sleep either. Our loan isn't backed by Fannie or Freddie unfortunately. I think it may help to be Fannie or Freddie but you can never be sure. We live in CA. The whole thing is a bit ridiculous. The bank has to start modifying loans...if they don't there will be millions of people living on the streets!

[jennyc]

I am right there with you mjmrms, I can't sleep, snapping at my husband and kids, totally stressed out. I am wondering is this worth it? No way can I afford this house without the mod and now that I have lost my job, I am not if we will even qualify for the permanent one.

I am trying to take it one day at a time, but it is hard.....

[mjmrms]

I keep reminding myself that Im healthy, my kids are healthy and that other people are losing loved ones to cancer, unfortunate accidents, Iraq and they would do anything to be in our positions right now. I know thats a morbid way of looking at things but it does really put things into perspective dosent it? Thank God for what we do have!

[c150000]

well, i have been asking this burning question for months and months now
i cant get a straight answer from anyone....
i know fannie has work out programs if your not qualified for hamp.
repayment plans, in house mods ect,,
but iis not clear who will qualify for this help if needed,,,
iam sick as well i recived a notice to forclose yeaterday while iam on the trial payment plan so iam sick as can be !!!

there has to be something we all can do about this.. there has to be we must find out... and NOT sit here like sitting ducks if we do not get the perm hamp mod !!!

[mjmrms]

Originally Posted by c150000

well, i have been asking this burning question for months and months now
i cant get a straight answer from anyone....
i know fannie has work out programs if your not qualified for hamp.
repayment plans, in house mods ect,,
but iis not clear who will qualify for this help if needed,,,
iam sick as well i recived a notice to forclose yeaterday while iam on the trial payment plan so iam sick as can be !!!

there has to be something we all can do about this.. there has to be we must find out... and NOT sit here like sitting ducks if we do not get the perm hamp mod !!!

How long have you been on the trial Mod? Its like every month we just dig ourselves deeper and deeper. Like I said being a month or two behind wasnt so bad 6 months ago. Now Im behing like $10k! I will never be able to pay that up front if we dont get the perm Mod. Im going to see if fannie has a back up plan since my loan is owed by them. Im calling 1st thing Monday morning. I hate feeling sick all the time about not knowing and the uncertanty of our home. I dont even have motivation to do any improvements on the house anymore. Crazy stuff!!

[c150000]

I know i feel the same way, yes fannie has options i will see if i can find the link and post it here for you to see
but will chase offer them like there supose to who knows,, i know its not going to be easy

ive been on the trial 3 months now,,,,,have you recived a notice yet?
Like i recived the intent to forclose notice?

Have you put aside any funds in case?

[c150000]

https://www.hmpadmin.com/portal/docs...cer/sd0908.pdf

HERE IT IS: IS THIS WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR?

[davephx]

It is totally against HAMP/Treasury directives to start foreclosure or sell while on the Trial Mod plan. That is a very legitimate reason to complain to Congress person. HampAdmin/ Fannie, etc.

It is very clear in all the directives fro all the agencies not to start or continue foreclosure while on the trial plan. Of course the problem is if denied and the foreclosure notice period is up they can sell the next day with no notice to you. That is the really scary part. If they will depends on how bad the servicer wants the fees for foreclosing.

Fannie has a bunch of alternatives if not qualified for HAMP but details or qualification requirements not published or known

[c150000]

davephx
the letter says acceleration warning { notice of intent to foreclose}

not sure what it is? do you what this notice heading is?

it says i have 32 days to cure default ect ect
it says help is available you must call gives options

i called said it was send out by computer, because iam showing 3 months late
because my 3rd trial payment is in suspense
he said your not 3 months behind your only 2 1/2 payments late not
counting november//// ?????????????

[darkdays]

Originally Posted by davephx

It is totally against HAMP/Treasury directives to start foreclosure or sell while on the Trial Mod plan. That is a very legitimate reason to complain to Congress person. HampAdmin/ Fannie, etc.

It is very clear in all the directives fro all the agencies not to start or continue foreclosure while on the trial plan. Of course the problem is if denied and the foreclosure notice period is up they can sell the next day with no notice to you. That is the really scary part. If they will depends on how bad the servicer wants the fees for foreclosing.

Fannie has a bunch of alternatives if not qualified for HAMP but details or qualification requirements not published or known

The HAMP guidelines strongly encourage lenders not to initiate foreclosure but does not go far enough to require the lenders not to.

[davephx]

c150000 - Procedures vary by State but in AZ the acceleration warning/notice is NOT the same as foreclosure. They have to do that before they can actually send the foreclosure letter as I understand it.

This step may be legitimate under HAMP they just can't actually start the foreclosure (than have so many days to cure before sale - different timing different states)

[mjmrms]

Originally Posted by c150000

I know i feel the same way, yes fannie has options i will see if i can find the link and post it here for you to see
but will chase offer them like there supose to who knows,, i know its not going to be easy

ive been on the trial 3 months now,,,,,have you recived a notice yet?
Like i recived the intent to forclose notice?

Have you put aside any funds in case?

I did receive some Foeclosure letters in about the 2nd month of the trial Mod but when I called Chase about it they said NO I am not in forclosure and they they will not start them. The system just spits them out. There seems to be a total disconnect within the collections dept and Loss Mit dept. They assured me that everything is fine while on the trial Mod. Something tells me that they cant just demand the money up front if your backed by Fannie or Freddie. Thanks for the info! I will be researching "plan B" options with Fannie on Monday!

[mjmrms]

Originally Posted by davephx

It is totally against HAMP/Treasury directives to start foreclosure or sell while on the Trial Mod plan. That is a very legitimate reason to complain to Congress person. HampAdmin/ Fannie, etc.

It is very clear in all the directives fro all the agencies not to start or continue foreclosure while on the trial plan. Of course the problem is if denied and the foreclosure notice period is up they can sell the next day with no notice to you. That is the really scary part. If they will depends on how bad the servicer wants the fees for foreclosing.

Fannie has a bunch of alternatives if not qualified for HAMP but details or qualification requirements not published or known

Check out this link if your loan is owend by Fannie. Looks like Frannie is allowing you stay in your home and pay rent to Fannie?? Now im really confused! They are also requesting more $$ be put toward the HAMP process to get approved for the permanent loan mod.
Fannie Mae offers homeowners new option to stay in home | rgj.com | The Reno Gazette-Journal

[davephx]

Once you get the foreclosure notice the clock to sale is ticking (time varies by State).

Not sure what you mean by demand money up front, can't under Hamp other than want first trial payment. They can on internal mod. And if get denied you in most states can "cure" the foreclosue by paying all the back payments, legal fees, foreclosure fees etc usually up to a day before the sale.

They can not do a sale while on the trial and in fact are "in theory" not suppose to do the foreclosure. But if they do it in error (as they did me against the directives) there is virtually nothing you can do at least I've found.

While on trial they can not sell. But with Citi its a mess since what Citi says vs the Title Company CR Title is very different. I am fighting sales every 30 days set up with CR Title vs Citi saying they can't set a date.

The problem is and its clearly stated in the Trial Agreement, if you are denied a mod, they CAN the next day sell your house with no notice (it has happened as we have seen). That is my huge issue. They determined not qualified for HAMP they take a 5 second look at other alternatives say no and poof house can be sold.

Now, not all servicers will do that. Citi insists they don't. But others have and that ability with no notice is part of the Trial Agreement.

[caldwellb02]

dave - interesting information. Very interesting. so the trial agreement sort of cuts through any state laws about the time to "cure" after a foreclosure notice?

[c150000]

so, was that a foreclosure letter i got ? i never got one before so i dont know what it is?????????
and also in my case if i pay my trail payments early, instead of on the first of the month { i think i read you can pay them early}
they have used my 1st 2 trial payments towards latest month, so that month is gone.
so if i can pay another one early i can keep my self out of the 4 month risk correct?
because iam not going to have it all if denied the late fees ar 2500.00 alone
so even if i could cure most of the default,, they can refuse it because i owe late fees too

under fannie mae loans: if denied for hamp they CAN just sell on you?
without offering repayment plan or anything?????/

[davephx]

Originally Posted by caldwellb02

dave - interesting information. Very interesting. so the trial agreement sort of cuts through any state laws about the time to "cure" after a foreclosure notice?

No, they can not speed up the process but if your already beyond the 30 or 90 day period (depending on State) after Foreclosure notice than they can sell with no further notice.

The clock keeps ticking on the time established by State law as to when the sale will take place. This is in a non judicial State, not sure what happens, I think you can go to Court in a judicial State.