Yet Another Probable Walk-Away in AZ..

[darlyj]

First of all THANK YOU, THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU to those of you who started this forum and for those of you who have posted your stories already. We NEVER would have been able to find this kind of information borne of experience anywhere else, let alone discovered the reality of what's going on in the sham world of loan mods from Chase. Ugh, Chase.

We purchased our home in January of 2005 for right around 180K on a very good fixed rate. We were responsible (or so we thought) and had enough to cover the mortgage, CC's, food, etc and still be able to go out every now and again. We refied and obtained a HELOC through Chase in 2006 I believe, again at a good fixed rate, etc. It boggles my mind now how quickly Chase approved that stuff....today you would be hard-pressed to get a straight answer about how many pennies make up a dollar inside of a month.

Last spring/summer my husband's hours were cut substantially due to the tanking economy and our monthly income was cut by as much as 2K, depending upon the month. He barely escaped being laid off in June/July. Needless to say it put us behind. I think our first skipped payment was April or May and we had barely been able to make the previous payment. My husband tried working with Chase but it was all but pointless.

We were essentially told (like many others here) to fall behind, and then we would should qualify for some kind of mod. OK, great....we couldn't afford the payment anyway. Fast forward to the middle of August when he was told over the phone that we pre-qualified for a mod.

We were relived....that was several weeks before I found this forum.

Then Chase called back and got DH to agree to some other kind of plan (I'm thinking forebearance) where we were to pay MORE than our original payment for a few months and it was set up through collections. My response: You did WHAT?!?!? And now you want me to take over the entire family financial juggling act? Thanks, honey. So we made September's payment.....again, that was before I found this forum.

Two weeks later he tried calling back to find someone to work with because there is no way that we could come up with the October payment - not unless we just don't feed our three small kids for a month, which ain't gonna happen. Anyway, the loss mitigation person tells DH that our paperwork that we had been pre-qualifed for had never even been sent out - no kidding, we could have told you that one Captain Obvious - we haven't seen hide nor hair of a FedEx person at our door for a loooooong time.

He also found out that there was nothing else they could do for us until after the 1st of the month and, you guessed it, the next payment is due. Yeah right, like THAT is gonna happen. So we've decided that Chase is not going to see one more red cent on the mortgage until we get an acceptable mod, signed by them too, on our front doorstep. Period. My guess is that they are not going to be bothered with us....we owe 168K on the first and according to my friend in real estate they might see 145K next spring or summer, but certainly not now.

If they refuse to work with someone who is 100K or more underwater why would they work with us? And why in the name of my dear grandmother would or should we continue to sacrafice our health to stress while trying to pay a lender who refuses to work WITH and HELP us, for a home that has cracks in the walls?!?!? And no, the cracks in the walls are not a result of the kids.

It is soooo frustrating because we do not want anything for free...turn the 20 year note to a 30 year note and drop the interest a couple of points for two or three years, that's all that we would need to make a go of this. What about that is so bloody difficult to comprehend?

So that is our story in a nutshell. We've decided to cash paychecks, get caught up on other bills (CC's and the HELOC included because they HAVE worked with us extensively over the past year and we have too much to lose through BK) and put what we can away for deposits and rent elsewhere. Even though he took a huge hit on hours and almost got laid off in June/July, DH still has a very good job (knock on wood) and the company needs his skillset so we are OK there for now. I guess that my reasoning for joining and starting a thread is to document our journey towards what we are expecting will be foreclosure, and maybe help someone like we have been helped here in the process. The information here is priceless. We have discovered how to take a stand, that we are not alone, and most importantly that these crooked institutions do not have the power to spook us unless we allow them to. Bring it Chase.

[Moe Bedard]

Darlyj, welcome, welcome! My kinda fighter and one we love to join us here in the fun Glad to see you have seen the light.

OK, so now you realize that this can be like a game of poker and for a time, they were bluffing you left and right. They had you in their palms, but not so much now. This is good because you have to come to that point.

Their job is really just a a debt collector and you are the debtor. This game has been played for many a moons and the ways they work and do not work with borrowers really haven't changed much.

If you pay, you get no absolutely no play. If you don't pay, all of a sudden they start to play. But in the end, if you truly deserve a loan modification and you fight your bottom off, you will get that help you need.

You're among good company and this forum may help you through the long fight you have ahead. I wish you the best!

[darlyj]

Thanks Moe. We're just sick (literally at several points) of the stress from playing their games and refuse to do so anymore. It's just not worth it anymore, financially or mentally. That in and of itself is beyond liberating. The only thing that really is of any concern to us has to do with dragging the kids through this and making sure that we can find a safe place in a timely fashion. At the same time we know that we are far from the only family in this position and many have done just fine after going through what we are right now.

[briknope]

Originally Posted by darlyj

Thanks Moe. We're just sick (literally at several points) of the stress from playing their games and refuse to do so anymore. It's just not worth it anymore, financially or mentally. That in and of itself is beyond liberating. The only thing that really is of any concern to us has to do with dragging the kids through this and making sure that we can find a safe place in a timely fashion. At the same time we know that we are far from the only family in this position and many have done just fine after going through what we are right now.

I'm in AZ also and pretty much in the same situation as you. I lost job, hours cut and all that and really can't afford my house anymore with what new job pays. I decided to not pay and see what happens. I will take it down till the end and not short sale which is what they will want you to do sooner or later. Its been 5 months missed payments coming up on 6. If I get a foreclosure notice then the sale date is 3 months from that. Then I get another month or so to move out so in the meantime, banking money that should be going towards the house so I can save my a** if and when the day comes.

[darlyj]

briknope...

By law would we have another month to move out after the sale date? I know that it's no less than 90 days from the NOS but am not sure beyond that. If it were just DH and I we would park our a**es here for as long as possible to grow the mattress fund, but the responsibility of three kids under six kinda changes that for us. I'm thinking about a month or so to find a new place should be enough time. If anyone has any experience on a timeframe I'd love to hear it, northern AZ especially, but I won't discriminate.

[darlyj]

BTW, may I ask who your lender is? DH says that we are certainly three, possibly four months behind depending on who you ask. Just trying to get some kind of idea on a timeframe although I know it can be vastly different.

[briknope]

Originally Posted by darlyj

BTW, may I ask who your lender is? DH says that we are certainly three, possibly four months behind depending on who you ask. Just trying to get some kind of idea on a timeframe although I know it can be vastly different.

My lender is Chase. Who is DH may I ask? Anyhow, yes I believe 30 days after sale date, and then or during that time I would start hitting them up for "cash for keys" I'm in the Phoenix area, so there are ALOT of rentals available, not sure about northern AZ (Flag or Prescott?)

If you're already 4 or 5 months behind, you might as well stay put, and don't fall for their forebearance scam 3 month trial plan deal. Its just a way to milk money out of you during the downhill slide. Wait for something more concrete, or a foreclosure notice...and even then they may do something last minute. Who knows. Keep watch on the chapter 13 cramdown legislation that may get its 2nd round soon.

Another idea would be to hit them with a BK at the last minute if you're really behind on other debts also. That will keep you there for a while longer also and give you more time to stash money. Credit is shot anyhow....

Something WILL happen that is for sure. I decided to play it out. If I get anything to sign or some type of agreement, I will spend a few bucks and have a lawyer read it and give his opinion.

[darlyj]

Originally Posted by briknope

My lender is Chase. Who is DH may I ask? Anyhow, yes I believe 30 days after sale date, and then or during that time I would start hitting them up for "cash for keys" I'm in the Phoenix area, so there are ALOT of rentals available, not sure about northern AZ (Flag or Prescott?)

If you're already 4 or 5 months behind, you might as well stay put, and don't fall for their forebearance scam 3 month trial plan deal. Its just a way to milk money out of you during the downhill slide. Wait for something more concrete, or a foreclosure notice...and even then they may do something last minute. Who knows. Keep watch on the chapter 13 cramdown legislation that may get its 2nd round soon.

Another idea would be to hit them with a BK at the last minute if you're really behind on other debts also. That will keep you there for a while longer also and give you more time to stash money. Credit is shot anyhow....

Something WILL happen that is for sure. I decided to play it out. If I get anything to sign or some type of agreement, I will spend a few bucks and have a lawyer read it and give his opinion.

Amen to that. We have zero faith in anything Chase tells us over the phone anymore...wouldn't put it past them to try and pull a fast one with the paperwork, either. We're not going to pay them another dime until we get an agreement that works for us too. We're waiting to get the NOS before we seriously start looking for a rental, and if Chase is going to come through with something they had better get their s*** in one sock and do it before we put money down on another place. At that point it's game over and good riddance. I'm sick of having virtually nothing to buy food for my family with...thank God I stocked the pantry last fall and winter. DH is short for dear husband, whose name is Dave. We are in the Prescott area. I've been keeping a close eye on craigslist and the paper and if you drive around the area there are a lot of places that have signs in the yard. We also have several property management places in town and I know my dad would co-sign if they required it. Quite honestly, even if we won the lottery tomorrow and could get all of our CC debt paid off we'd probably still tell Chase to shove it - they've pushed us to that point.

[darlyj]

Quick question to those of you who have turned to NACA...

They are having one of their Save the Dream workshops in Phoenix this weekend and we are toying with the idea of signing up - it's only about a two hour drive and I honestly believe that we have nothing to lose except a day and a tank of gas.

What should we expect? Is NACA having any better luck with Chase than John Q. Public? I just don't want to waste their time if Chase is going to continue to blow us off when NACA could be helping someone else who actually has half a chance at a mod. Thanks..

[briknope]

Originally Posted by darlyj

Amen to that. We have zero faith in anything Chase tells us over the phone anymore...wouldn't put it past them to try and pull a fast one with the paperwork, either. We're not going to pay them another dime until we get an agreement that works for us too. We're waiting to get the NOS before we seriously start looking for a rental, and if Chase is going to come through with something they had better get their s*** in one sock and do it before we put money down on another place. At that point it's game over and good riddance. I'm sick of having virtually nothing to buy food for my family with...thank God I stocked the pantry last fall and winter. DH is short for dear husband, whose name is Dave. We are in the Prescott area. I've been keeping a close eye on craigslist and the paper and if you drive around the area there are a lot of places that have signs in the yard. We also have several property management places in town and I know my dad would co-sign if they required it. Quite honestly, even if we won the lottery tomorrow and could get all of our CC debt paid off we'd probably still tell Chase to shove it - they've pushed us to that point.

I recently learned that Chase actually bought my loan and it is still an FHA loan. Before this they were the servicer only. Who really knows what the truth is becasue the letter stated it would be recorded in my county and I see NOTHING on the County Recorder's website to confirm this. I really don't want to mess around with trial plans or whatnot. I want CONCRETE mod or I'm out of here. It is possible and don't let them fool you.

[darlyj]

Yeah, us too. That is why DH is heading to Phoenix to see if NACA can get something done this weekend. We have a 20 year note at 6.875% and I've read on the forum that Chase has done a 40 year 3% fixed at these Save the Dream events. That would be all that we would need - even a 4% fixed would probably get us where we need to be. We're hopeful but not expectant. Either it is a PERMANENT, concrete mod this weekend or we walk. We've seen how they have screwed over other people with the "trial" mod BS. Equity is a joke anymore, so we're basically paying rent to the bank at a minimum of 30-40 percent above market right now which we simply cannot afford. Who in their right mind would continue to do that?

The funny part is that we're more relieved than anything at the prospect of walking away. We're not stressed about "losing" the house, even though it is a little bit of a kick to the nether regions. The only stress that I feel is that which comes with an anticipated move (finding a decent rental, packing, etc) and it is drastically less than what we have been through the last year.

[briknope]

I woudn't waste the gas to Phoenix.

[azdmsmith]

The local news showed people already lined up around the block at 6AM today

[darlyj]

Originally Posted by azdmsmith

The local news showed people already lined up around the block at 6AM today

DH has decided to go and will probably wind up leaving here around 2 or 3 in the morning which will put him there between 4 and 5. We're hoping that way maybe he will be able to get in before noon, although with as many people who are having big problems right now we're not holding our breath. This is pretty much the last time we are going to try this stuff...if something can happen tomorrow then great. Otherwise it's back to Plan A and the mattress fund. I'm excited that after all of the BS back and forth and stress we SHOULD actually know which path we will be taking.

[Enough Already]

Hi Darylj,

I'm currently trying for a short sale, but if that doesn't work out we'll be walking away. Funny you mention that you're mostly stressed about the moving part of things. I feel the exact same way. When we first started this journey I was sick with worry about the whole thing. Once we made our decision to get out of this house I felt fine. Now I'm mainly just worried about getting moved, finding a good place to live/rent, and making the transition as easy a possible for our 2 small children. I guess that's just the nature of we moms.

Good luck to you!

[darlyj]

Enough..

Yeah, my husband was having panic attacks at one point he was so stressed out over all of this. And you can count on one hand the number of good night's sleeps he's had the last year. But strangely enough he's been sleeping better since we've decided that it's not worth playing Chase's games anymore. Go figure. I was never really that stressed about the house itself...we're very blessed to have "family" in the area and there is no way that they would let us go without a roof, if for some reason we couldn't find one of our own. Seeing what all of this has done to my husband over the last year is what really gets me pi$$ed off....bigtime. Again like you said, the mom and wife thing.

He left about 5AM for the Save the Dream event this morning and called a few minutes ago to say that he was in the convention center and about to watch their presentation. Not sure what that is all about but at least he is in the building, which tells me that they should get around to him today.

He took his pay stubs, mortgage statements and other bill statements so they can see in black and white what we having going out and hopefully come up with a budget.

I'm just hoping that Chase figures out that it's worth working with us. We don't want a principal decrease -just kick the note out and lower the interest....DH has a good job where he is badly needed, Chase gets all of their principal in the end and still makes money instead of losing their a$$es in a foreclosure. But if they don't then we'll happily tell them that it is not worth it, pi$$ off, we'll be anxiously waiting to see just how much money they lose, and go find a better place to live. My only hang-up at this point is that I hate moving. The last time we moved we only had one toddler....since then we've had two more which I'm sure will prove to complicate things.

[darlyj]

Well, we didn't get much help yesterday....some but not much at all. I'll believe what little help we did get when we see the actual paperwork though.

Found out that DH is still taking the maximum deduction for taxes out of his paycheck which is going to abruptly come to an end. After running the numbers he should be able to completely stop taking tax deductions and still be able to get a decent chunk of change back after the first of the year. A word of advice to those of you out there regarding taxes: run the numbers, add a little more to make sure and DON'T PAY MORE THAN YOU NEED TO! We wouldn't be as deep in this whole mess otherwise. That extra money every week, even after we start paying the taxes again in January/February should make all the difference in the world. I'm still about ready to walk and find a rental in town, but DH has decided that he wants to stay in the house at least until our daughter finishes kindergarten next spring. Guess we'll see what happens in the meantime. And if the NACA thing actually materializes.

[briknope]

Originally Posted by darlyj

Well, we didn't get much help yesterday....some but not much at all. I'll believe what little help we did get when we see the actual paperwork though.

Found out that DH is still taking the maximum deduction for taxes out of his paycheck which is going to abruptly come to an end. After running the numbers he should be able to completely stop taking tax deductions and still be able to get a decent chunk of change back after the first of the year. A word of advice to those of you out there regarding taxes: run the numbers, add a little more to make sure and DON'T PAY MORE THAN YOU NEED TO! We wouldn't be as deep in this whole mess otherwise. That extra money every week, even after we start paying the taxes again in January/February should make all the difference in the world. I'm still about ready to walk and find a rental in town, but DH has decided that he wants to stay in the house at least until our daughter finishes kindergarten next spring. Guess we'll see what happens in the meantime. And if the NACA thing actually materializes.

Sure, what will materialize is them giving you a trial payment for 3 months, and then deny the application in the end. They will try and suck a few thousand out of you before you wind up in foreclosure.

[darlyj]

Yeah, I know. At least we can say that we gave it a shot I guess. DH has to fax three papers to the NACA reps he worked with tomorrow, and they said we should hear something within 10 days afterwards. Great. Here we go. I'm not stressing though....still not going to pay anyone a red bloody cent until we get signed paperwork and go over it with a fine-tooth comb. I think they have to give you at least 30 days to make the first permanent mod payment, right? At least it had better be permanent mod....even DH says he won't play the temporary mod game. The presentation at NACA said they did permanent mods only. If they try to send us a temporary mod not only will they get it back with a fax of a tersely worded denial, but also a copy of the latest tax assessment value to remind them that yes they WILL lose money on the deal. Not that anyone at Chase seems to care about that thus far.

I guess it's easy to NOT care when the only consequence for crappy business decisions and subsequently trying to screw over large numbers of people is billions of dollars in bailout money to save your a$$ and prop the books up. Sorry about that rant....I'm still pissed over that whole deal. The real kicker is how they calculate the mods by gross pay. The hard-earned tax money that they get their greedy, undeserving hands on suddenly doesn't count. *Rant complete, thank you for your patience*

Even DH says Chase will not get any more $$$ until the permanent mod paperwork is done. I'm usually a pretty even tempered person, but his paying on a temporary mod would have been grounds for reception of a Grade A sh!t fit courtesy of yours truly. The difference is that the NACA mod is acceptable and doable. Throwing more money to Chase without said paperwork is not.

[darlyj]

Update: The timeframe from NACA has come and gone with no papers (surprise, surprise), and not a peep otherwise. *Sigh* Guess it's time to start bugging the Hell out of someone while we continue with "Plan A." I had made the mistake of being somewhat hopeful and optimistic that this would work out the way that everyone stated it would at the Save the Dream event, Chase reps included. You would think my sarcastic a$$ would know better by now.

Chase called last week and wouldn't tell me whether the call was regarding the 1st or the 2nd. He wouldn't even disclose what department he was calling from. I finally explained to the guy that we were working for a mod with NACA and he quit bugging. DH has explained to them on several occasions that I am the one dealing with household finances at this point and they need to speak with me if they want to get paid. Yet they still insist on speaking with only him...guess I must be more of a hardass to deal with??? Either that or the guy was trying to get info out of me to pursue the 1st....btw, they start to get kinda pissy when you won't answer the questions that pop up on the screen. Hehehe. You won't even tell me what department you are calling from and you want me to give you all this info?? Um, no. Anyway, no more calls since so I'm back to expecting an NOD at some point. Oh and DH was informed that his hours are to be cut yet again, so he's back to being worried about being laid off at some point. Great. At least the boss hasn't mentioned it.....yet.

Hmmmmm...aren't we supposed to fax updated wage info to NACA if it changes? And can't they stop a sale date? Guess that means the numbers need to be re-worked again, which I'm sure will take another couple weeks....maybe if they drag this out long enough and DH's hours keep getting cut (and not laid off) we'll actually get a good mod. What a blue-flaming pain in the derrier.

[darlyj]

Update 10/29:

Still no word (or paperwork) from NACA and the only thing Chase sends us regarding the 1st is a billing statement, the latest of which was in today's mail. I head somewhere on this forum that NACA was about 30 days behind so we're going to hold off on bugging and being a general pain in the a$$ for another week or so. There is no status update on the site other than they received the paperwork DH faxed in three weeks ago. Ah well, at least we don't have to repeat the same story over and over again to different clueless Chase reps anymore. Thank you, NACA! Although it was fun to listen to the different reactions when I asked whomever was calling where they preferred me to leave the keys.

Chase was kind enough to enclose a payment envelope for us to mail our well over $8000 payment in. Awwwww, how thoughtful....or shall we say hopeful...or better yet pointless? We are soon to be six months behind so we're expecting a certified letter any day with our 90 day NOS. Even if NACA can't stop it, at this point I'm just glad that we should be able to stay put until after the chaos of the holidays.

May a FedEx truck bearing good news be in all of your near futures!

[AZOwner]

darylj -- I am so sorry for your fight. We are pretty fortunate in AZ, non-recourse . . .

I didn't struggle too long with the decision to walk away if that is what the bank wants me to do. We purchased at the wrong time -- that was our mistake.

I hope they choke on the bonuses.



I said that out loud. eek

[darlyj]

AZ - thank you for the kind words and I sincerely appreciate the sentiment. Don't be too sorry though....we're not....anymore. This may work out for the best for our family over the course of the next few months. Worst case scenario - we walk away from what has turned out to be a horrible investment that we wound up with due to national fraud on a massive scale, and have been able to get caught up on other bills in the process. If NACA cannot negotiate a permanent mod with Chase (which is realistically pretty slim in our case), at least it should postpone the inevitable long enough for us to get a decent cushion going.

You are so right about AZ...the non-recourse on purchase money is a blessing, as is the 90 day NOS. Quick question on duration - do you know how long a resident has to vacate a property after the sale? Does it just depend upon the purchaser or is there a set timeframe? Just wondering how long I would have to save and secure a rental. We do have a HELOC and other debt, however we plan on using part of that to manipulate DH's credit score back up over a couple years before paying it off....we should be able to by that point (fingers crossed).

If I felt like wasting the money to do so, I'd send the board members of Chase personalized shovels. They would say something like, "The BS so deep at our house that I figured you must be about buried by now." Truth be told though, I could really care less whether they choke on it or not.

Moi, jaded and bitter.....nah.....

[tricia88]

Originally Posted by darlyj

If I felt like wasting the money to do so, I'd send the board members of Chase personalized shovels. They would say something like, "The BS so deep at our house that I figured you must be about buried by now." Truth be told though, I could really care less whether they choke on it or not.

This made me laugh

[AZOwner]

daryl -- at last count they give you 2 weeks notice to vacate the property after foreclosure.

I'm not clear on how cash for keys works -- something to the effect of someone shows up at your house with a check and you get the check if you give the keys and walk away at that moment.

We are coming up on 3 months behind on our payments. We are packing. I have stated my bottom line for modifying our loan, and will accept nothing short of; reduction of pricipal, foregiveness of 1st and 2nd, and 30 year fixed mortgage at current market value, and to finish it off, they need to remove bad marks from my credit. You guessed it! They'll foreclose, I am sure. And I don't give a rip!!!!

In December we will move the non-essentials to a storage unit, so after foreclosure we just back up a truck and take beds, couch, TV, and kitchen stuff . . . meanwhile, saving every dime I can.

My sister (also AZ) has a foreclosure sale date of 11/27. She has short sale offer on the table. They plan to leave in the next couple of weeks to move into their rental. I am waiting until the last possible moment to pay rent. . .

Onward!!!