To Pay Or Not To Pay - Loan Modification Forum

river22 · 08-24-2009, 08:40 PM

Im a little confused about the 3 month trial payment. I am scheduled to start my 3 months of payments on September 1st. I have been offered a 3 month forbearence. I have not been able to find anyone who has completed the plan and then received a permenent modification. I think that this is just another way for the banks to take what little bit of money that we have. I am looking for a solution to my crises and not to put me further in debt than i already am in. My home is worth about 50% less than what i owe Chase. It dose not make any sense to go any further with chase until they reduse the rate on my loan. I am at 8.9 % thanks to the preditory actions of my lender. The only tru solution to my problem would be for Chase Bank to lower my interest to 3%, extend the term of my loan to 40 years and I would be able to make the payments. But even doing that it doesnt change the value of the home. I dont know if im being stupid to try and hold on to our home or if i should just walk. I have been fighting with these incompotant people that work at chase for over 1 1/2 years and still have not come to a conclusion. What is the answer?? What are we all doing??? I think we all as Citzens of the United States of America need to fight back and take control of this situation and stop fighting as an individual. We are stronger in numbers. Chase Bank is not playing fair. If everyone on this forum showed up at the door step of the c e os office of Chase and demanded a fair modification. We could win this battle. But as individuals, We are not being heard.

Note to all :
I have just seen a modification that was completed by US Bank. The interest rate was droped to 3% for 5 years with a 1 point increase at the end of 5 years and a cap of 5.22%.L oan terms were extened to 40 years.
Here is a bank that is willing to work with its customers and is playing on the same team. I have not seen anything like this with Chase Bank. If we are all looking for the same thing then we should be fighting together. I am willing to stand up against Chase. Are you???

The only way things will change is if we make the changes.

snapple candy · 08-24-2009, 11:28 PM

River, have you been offered the HAMP trial modification payment plan? That is different from a forbearance.
I just finished my 3 mth trial payment and waiting to see final terms. Someone did post some good terms (like the ones yu mention above) given by Chase this past week but it was a verbal and nothing received in writing.
WHen I see it in writing for me, I will believe it. Im 100k underwater so if it is no good, I walk away. If your payments are close to what you would pay for rent anyways, it justifies somewhat the case for making the 3 trial payments.

river22 · 08-25-2009, 12:05 AM

Hi Snapple, My trial plan is called a Forbearance Plan Agreement. starting on september 1st 2009. Pay 5200.00 per month for the next 3 months. It also states that the forbearance will not bring my account current. After the forbearance plan final payment is made, regular monthly payments will be due in addition to any delinqent payments, feesand or charges. If my account is not current once the forbearance period has ended, collection and or forecloser activity will resume. During the forbearance period my file may be reviewed for other work out options. This forbearance does not gaurantee a loan modification and at any time chase may withdraw this agreement. To me I am just going to give more money with out any proof of a modification. What would you do? I may need this money to find a new place to live. This is not a trial plan that i am comfortable with.

fe826 · 08-25-2009, 12:29 AM

River,

I find myself in the same dilema but even worse because I was offered a 3 month trial period plus I have to put down 10k. At the end of the trial period my application would be reviewed. This is a rental therefore I do have the 10k from the rent that I've collected but I am very hessitant in accepting their offer because I have a feeling they will deny my modification at the end of the 3months and by this time I would have given up the 10k + the pmt for 3 months. Aside from the rent that I collect I still have to put $1000 per month out of my pocket to pay mortgage. Not to mention the 20% that I put down for the property. I would like to save the rental house but if I don't get a lower interest rate or if they don't extend my loan to 40yrs then I see no point in turning over the 10k to find out that my pmt will not be reduced because when they place you on the "trial" there are no guarantees of what the final modification will be.

I am a person with a lot of faith but with most of the stories I've read on here, the bank are not trustworthy and frankly I don't know if I should take one more leap of faith. By the way my lender is also chase. They made this trial offer today and said I would get docs in 7-10 days. Now that I think about it, If they really wanted to modify loans to make homes affordable they would give you something in concrete up front and make it effective when you complete your trial period.

I wonder if anyone has turned their trial offer down and were able to work something else out?

Thank you for your post.

river22 · 08-25-2009, 12:47 AM

I am going to call chase in the morning and decline the trial offer and demand the hamp program. Its a long shot but it wont cost me any money. I looked through all the paperwork and it does not say hamp programe anywhere. All it says is forebearance plan agreement.

snapple candy · 08-25-2009, 12:59 AM

fe, I did turn down the first loan mod Chase offered me but I also was fannie mae backed and knew about the HAMP program. I was firm in my resolve to get it and eventually did. I was ready to walk away if I didnt get it but also I was 1 year behind in my payments. I really had nothing to lose. I think you have to weigh alot of things that pertain to your own situation. Like how much underwater you are, if it is fannie or freddie to start. I had the govt. guidelines to quote and back up my demands.
This business about putting money down is bs. They tried that on me too and I said I cant do it. I held my ground for a lower payment and they tacked the delinquent amount on the back end of the loan. Keep in mind they will try and get all they can out of you. If they know you have rental income in the bank, they will try and get you to use it. Personally, I wouldnt have any large sums in the bank like that. It is like a target with a bullseye on it. There is no incentive for them to modify if they know you have large cash reserve. If it was me, I would just say no and see what happens next. Chase even went so far as to file Notice of Sale on me and I still would not back down. Again, remember I had nothing to lose. Besides if I didnt get the lower payment, I couldnt stay anyways. They initially offered me a mod that really wasnt a long term solution. It sounds like both of you are being handed the same. If you dont like what they are offering, write reject on it and send it back.
I was and still am ready to walk away. Your mind set at least has to be there to negotiate what you want. Also you cant care about your credit score either.

River, what is your current payment set at? or How much has it been reduced per month?

jakelabry · 08-25-2009, 03:12 AM

river22, by all means apply for the HAMP program but please check the requirements here: Making Home Affordable - Home

With a payment of $5200 a month sounds like you having a pretty substantial loan and the HAMP program only covers first loans of up to 729K.

fe826 · 08-25-2009, 08:08 AM

Snapple,
Thank you so much for your input. I don't mind putting the 10k down but I will not do it if they don't give me something in writing and concrete as far as what my modification will be after the trial period. I will wait to get the docs in the mail write reject and send them an explanation of what I want. If they are not willing to budge which I'm sure they wont I will request a short sale. Putting 1000 out our pocket for a rental makes no sense in the economy that we are in right now. It's just been a tough decision to make since we've made so many sacrifices to reach for an ideal.

As far as rental income is concerned, you mentioned not having that amt in the bank but where do i stash it and how? Call me naive or plain stupid but I am oblivious to this twisted, absurd modification game.

After we stopped making the payments because it was impossible to come up with 1k out of pocket when my husband was out of work for 6 wks no pay, we never touched the rental income and just left it in the bank hoping that one day we will be able to used it to negotiate a mod.

Plus in my mind I couldn't be using this money if wasn't mine. I'll though we did face some very tough months & borrowed from it so we can eat but replaced it as soon as we could.

I still cant put my mind around the fact that you get punished for being honest.

Please bare with my stupidity but how would i justify collecting rent not making pmt and no money in the bank?

Can anyone please reply to this. I need to get savvy and fast! It might be too late. so much for having values...

How would I justify withdrawing such a big chunk of $ after I submitted all my paperwork?

Does anyone know if I would qualify for the HAMP program if its a rental?

Need to learn to play their game PRONTO!

fe826 · 08-25-2009, 08:19 AM

I just answered my own question. I went to the link provided on this thread and I don't qualify its a rental. Thanks for the link jakelabry!

SwillerAlesbane · 08-25-2009, 04:02 PM

There have been a very few people who have gotten the modification after the 3 month trial plan...I am one. Read my post.

Every situation is different, for me, I was willing to risk losing my home if I didn't get a modification, but then again, I don't have "rental" properties, and I wasn't able to play the Real Estate Casino with anyone else's money.

Personally, I think if it's not the home your living in, it should go back to the bank...no mod. People who bought 2nd 3rd 4th homes with the Casino's money, should not be "bailed out". For that matter, NONE of our loans (including mine) should be re-worked with US Government dollars. The whole thing should have just been left alone and the market would have crashed and corrected itself. If the bank wasn't willing to "deal" with me, fine, take this house that is worth $100,000 less than what I owe. Can't have that though...bankers suffering loss?

Rental living is looking pretty darn good about now.

fe826 · 08-25-2009, 07:24 PM

Swiller,

I have to say I do agree with your thoughts of the whole house market should of just been left alone instead of putting so many people through so much aggravation to find out that the majority of us will end up in foreclosure but as far as gambling with someone else money... well...the 10k is not even a fraction of the 20% that I put down plus the $1000 a month out of pocket that I have been paying for two years.

Again I was responsible enough as far as not using that money and I am willing to pay it back to the bank if they just give me a lower interest rate so that I can afford the pmt.

Thank you for your reply.

Marie T · 08-25-2009, 08:57 PM

Swiller - I agree with you to a point...if someone worked at McDonalds and bought a McMansion on a stated income loan with 0 Down on an 80/20 (first and second), used an ARM to start with so they could afford payments initially and now that the loan has adjusted, they can't afford it, that is different than some of us who were well qualified and put 20% of our own money down and invested much more money into the house while living there several years.

I have friends, who, when they were selling their home, the best offer they got at the time was "only" $23,000 more than what their payoff was (first and second and refi in the mix). They owned the home less than three years, had bought it on an 80/20 - no money down, and had taken another $50,000 out later in a refi to buy a car and start a business. They had never put a penny into making the home better...did not even put any landscaping in or finish basement.

Luckily (for them) they bought another house before they got behind on payments on the first house and were later foreclosed. And, no ...I do not think that other people should have paid for their mistake but now that their house has (eventually) sold for $120,000 less at auction, all of their neighbors are paying for it when they sell their homes and some people have no choice but to sell if they are transferred or whatever.

So, I think each homeowner has a unique situation and it is very wrong for the lenders to throw us all in the computer and use one formula. My loan is not government backed, so I am at the mercy of what my lender, Washington Mutual, wants to do. I am sure that they will not look at my loan and say ....we have already collected four or five hundred thousand in interest on this loan - let's give her a break!!

caldwellb02 · 08-29-2009, 02:03 PM

Marie T - you are always a voice of reason. There are many different stories here. Quite frankly, following all of them makes my head spin. I am trying to tear myself away from this on a sunny Saturday to go take a walk and I just have to after this post! My house is my home. It's not a rental. I was given what I know now to be a predatory loan (they inflated my income), but at the time I wasn't worried about the payments because my son was paying half, the market would keep going up, we'd refi in a few years, and all would be well. But the market tanked, my son's income tanked and he can't help, I can't sell cuz I'm underwater, and I am getting the runaround of all runarounds from Chase and now even from Naca. I am in default for the first time this month. Either I'll lose the home or I'll get Chase to finally work with me. I've written congressmen and senators, complained to the OCC..... I'm trying to wrap my head around not being here in this home that I painted with colors I love, etc., etc., while still fighting for it. It is incredibly stressful. I agree they should look at each of us uniquely - For god's sake, those are people like us at the other end of the phone. What must they be thinking???????

Hard Times · 08-29-2009, 06:20 PM

River----I just happened to read all these posts tonight (Sat 8/29). Looks like you have a fairly large mortgage. One post from "Jakel.." may have been wrong. If your property is actually a 2 or 4 unit condo/apartment, with renters in it, I think the upper limit is around 1.5 million. So, I wasnt clear if you owned a home and also had another rental property which was seperate, or if it was attached. If the property you are trying to get a mod on is actually a seperate structure, not a part of your primary residence, then I do not think the HAP mod will apply. I have to agree with others comments that only a primary residence should be considered under the HAP program. It seems those with the luxury of having rental properties could sell them if they are having trouble paying the mortgage on their primary residence. Just my honest opinion.

At any rate, I personally would not accept that forbearance offer.

SwillerAlesbane · 08-30-2009, 03:31 PM

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a jerk. There are some out here in California who played the market and now are getting "modification" and treated the same as those of us who put 20% down of our own money.

Believe me, I feel the pain and every single story is different. To go one step higher, I think this whole bubble was planned or at least fueled knowingly from the top down, and now those of us who just happened to be caught buying in the pre-bubble/bubble market have to bear the brunt....or walk and ruin our credit as well as lose out homes we have worked to improve.

I have no answers and found that getting angry wasn't helping. Best of luck and if I can help through posting...I will.

caldwellb02 · 08-30-2009, 05:43 PM

Swiller - I understand. But even those of us who didn't put money down, but would have if we could, and have no stocks or 401K's or whatever in our pockets, need help. I have to admit I have the most compassion for people who are worried about their own homes, and not rentals. I selfishly think that if the mod is for the home you live in, it should be considered first.

river22 · 09-02-2009, 10:31 AM

I need advice!!! I declined the forbearance Agreement. I sent a letter to executive resolution. They have responded to me today and said, once the forbearance has been put in place on the the account the file is closed in EGR. I dont know what that means. I stated in my letter an amicaple solution that would benifit Chase and make the home affordable for me. Executive Resolution responded that they do not take suggestions from customers nor can the modification be neogotiated. He did say that Chase Bank is just a servicer on my loan and that The Bank Of New York is the investor. I am going to call back today to see what I need to do. I am not going to sign the forbearance agreement. I would only be throwing another $15000.00 away. The forbearance does not garantee a loan modification. and as far as I can tell it will go over 3 months into 4 or even 5 which would be $25000.00 If anyone has any advice on this please let me know what you think.

faith · 09-02-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by river22

I need advice!!! I declined the forbearance Agreement. I sent a letter to executive resolution. They have responded to me today and said, once the forbearance has been put in place on the the account the file is closed in EGR. I dont know what that means. I stated in my letter an amicaple solution that would benifit Chase and make the home affordable for me. Executive Resolution responded that they do not take suggestions from customers nor can the modification be neogotiated. He did say that Chase Bank is just a servicer on my loan and that The Bank Of New York is the investor. I am going to call back today to see what I need to do. I am not going to sign the forbearance agreement. I would only be throwing another $15000.00 away. The forbearance does not garantee a loan modification. and as far as I can tell it will go over 3 months into 4 or even 5 which would be $25000.00 If anyone has any advice on this please let me know what you think.

Hello,
I think $15,000 or $25,000 is a lot of money and throwing good money after bad is not a good idea. You have to weigh the pros and cons.

I don’t think that Lender's will hardly ever negotiate a true loan modification. What they do is to offer a forbearance and new payment schedule to those who are in financial hardship and unable to make mortgage payments. You have to be careful when doing forbearance because all fees, interest and late payments are added to the balance and will be due at some later date or upon payoff. Servicing company’s sometimes misrepresent one for the other - a modification & forbearance. But there’s a difference between the two. A [permanent] modification is for all intents and a purpose is a new loan that renders the deed voidable. The prior loan is completely removed from the record.

A forbearance agreement will always require some method of recovering the interest accrued to date whereby it is added to the already unaffordable payment. The promise to lower your payments later, is no commitment but a "maybe" upon the bank receiving all back due payments. It's a new highly deceptive practices or tool in a lender servicing agent’s arsenal of larceny.

You have to negotiate with your lender and maybe use a scare tactic that if you don't get the loan modification then you will be forced to file for bankruptcy. You can also ask to talk to the President, CEO or the supervisor of the lender and ask for their help.

I pray that God will give you favor from your lender and that you get a loan modification with affordable and lower interest instead.

God bless and take care.

FYI only.

snapple candy · 09-02-2009, 01:41 PM

River,
I dont know how much your original payments were but I can only assume that the forbearance payment isnt much of a help to you. Personally, i stuck to my guns and eventually got what I wanted...at least so far. You have a different investor and I suggest you research them. You might even want to try and contact them directly. Maybe consult an attorney cuz it sound like you are gonna have to play hard ball.

I have heard by an investor recently that some have suggested OK lets talk about short sale options and that puts a scare into them to negotiate. Of course BK also can do that. File a complaint with the OTC and BBB.
Also might want to send them a QWR asking for the original loan docs,etc. That seems to be having some sucess.

Is Chase saying that your investor doesnt participate in the HAMP program?
I turned down a loan mod (didnt write them) and then waited to see what they would do. They eventually started foreclosure proceedings. Good luck and hang in there. Just keep fighting until you can fight no more.

GonnaMakeIt · 09-02-2009, 02:28 PM

[quote=snapple candy;119456]
Also might want to send them a QWR asking for the original loan docs,etc. That seems to be having some sucess.

What is QWR?

Hard Times · 09-02-2009, 02:46 PM

River......:You never answered prior posts.......It was unclear if this mod was on your primary residence or a second rental property you own, or if you owned a 2-4 unit apartment and was trying to get a mod on that.

Is this an attempt to change terms on a secondary property? If so, I have to say that I think a forbearance is all you will get.....the HAMP mods are only for those living in a primary residence, with no other homes and assets. It would not be fair to allow wealthier americans with more than one home to qualify for these mods.

Clarify this so we can respond accurately.
thanks.

river22 · 09-03-2009, 12:08 AM

Hardtimes,

This was my permenet home until I couldnt afford the payments anymore. I have had to move out of the area to keep working. I am renting the home out but with the work slow and the rate adjustments on the loan I will not be able to keep the home unless the loan is modified. The home is worth much less than what I bought it for. I can not even get enough rent to cover the mortgage payment. I am a residential contractor and with the housing market in the toilet my industry has been hit hard. I have to go where the work is. My credit is ruined and I am only trying to hold on to what I have left for 22 years of hard work. I dont come from a wealthy family and only have what I have worked for. This home was going to be my retirement. But the way it is looking I may end up in a low income apt. Things need to change with the banks. The way I see it is the banks were given help from the government to help the people but no help has been passed on to us. Chase bank has only offerd false hopes to modification. I have to say, if I ran my business the way chase runs theirs, I would have no clients. It is a disrespect to all the the hard working Citizens of the United States Of America to be treated the way Chase Bank has done. I am not asking for any favors. I am only asking the bank to lower the interest rate on my loan to make the payment affordable. At least then I can rent the home out until work picks up and eventually move back into the house. I talked with law firm that represents Chase in the forecloser process and they told me today that our home is scheduled for sale on september 9th. I was never sent any notification that this was taking place. When I spoke with executive resolution today they never mentioned this to me. This is the bs that Chase Bank is doing. So if I were to agree to the forbearance I would be throwing my money away. I think with all the efforts they put into creating caos, they could channel these efforts and modify some homes.

faith · 09-03-2009, 01:12 AM

[quote=GonnaMakeIt;119486]

Quote:

Originally Posted by snapple candy

Also might want to send them a QWR asking for the original loan docs,etc. That seems to be having some sucess.

What is QWR?

Hello and welcome to this forum,
QWR is a Qualified Written Request Letter to send to your lender to put them on notice that you are concerned about your mortgage, and that you believe there may have been, or may be some discrepancies or violations in the origination, closing, terms or servicing of your home loan. If they have filed foreclosure they may have violated some laws in how they are going about that also. So a QWR is you asking the bank and/or their servicer to address your concerns and for a copy of your file.

Once the bank has it they have 20 banking days to acknowledge they have received it and then 60 banking days to address and satisfy your assertions. During this time they are prohibited by law to report any derogatory filings to the credit bureaus. Some people use this as a time to go late on their payments to attempt to give the bank further incentive to negotiate.

If a lender does not address your concerns they may be liable for up to $1,000 for every incidence. They should be sent out monthly to the servicer and lender until you get a response. But it's not just for stalling. This is something that can really help a case if violations are found.

So if you "suspect there may be violations in your loan ranging from origination, funding and/or servicing" you have every right to write them a QWR letter and ask for proof of their being compliant with state and federal laws and that you would like a complete copy of your file with them.

The link below may help you understand QWR.

http://www.ababj.com/briefing/scare-mail-beware-of-qwr-s.html

God bless you and take care

Source: LM Co., aba journal

GonnaMakeIt · 09-03-2009, 03:05 AM

River,
Wow...I feel the same way! Chase has also NOT informed me of sale dates, etc! I thought they were to post the letter to your door as well as mail a copy?
One thing I can say though, I faxed and refaxed documents required for my modification, Chase continually said I was missing this or that....In the 2 days prior to the scheduled sale, I called several times, got names and faxed information FOUR times. I called the morning of the sale date and got a supervisor to postpone it 1 hour before the sale!
Being persistent can at least buy you time...if you need it.

Do not want to lose it · 09-03-2009, 04:17 AM

Faith,
Thank you for that info!
It could be just the thing to help a lot of us here.

08-24-2009, 08:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
river22 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 30 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	To Pay Or Not To Pay Im a little confused about the 3 month trial payment. I am scheduled to start my 3 months of payments on September 1st. I have been offered a 3 month forbearence. I have not been able to find anyone who has completed the plan and then received a permenent modification. I think that this is just another way for the banks to take what little bit of money that we have. I am looking for a solution to my crises and not to put me further in debt than i already am in. My home is worth about 50% less than what i owe Chase. It dose not make any sense to go any further with chase until they reduse the rate on my loan. I am at 8.9 % thanks to the preditory actions of my lender. The only tru solution to my problem would be for Chase Bank to lower my interest to 3%, extend the term of my loan to 40 years and I would be able to make the payments. But even doing that it doesnt change the value of the home. I dont know if im being stupid to try and hold on to our home or if i should just walk. I have been fighting with these incompotant people that work at chase for over 1 1/2 years and still have not come to a conclusion. What is the answer?? What are we all doing??? I think we all as Citzens of the United States of America need to fight back and take control of this situation and stop fighting as an individual. We are stronger in numbers. Chase Bank is not playing fair. If everyone on this forum showed up at the door step of the c e os office of Chase and demanded a fair modification. We could win this battle. But as individuals, We are not being heard. Note to all : I have just seen a modification that was completed by US Bank. The interest rate was droped to 3% for 5 years with a 1 point increase at the end of 5 years and a cap of 5.22%.L oan terms were extened to 40 years. Here is a bank that is willing to work with its customers and is playing on the same team. I have not seen anything like this with Chase Bank. If we are all looking for the same thing then we should be fighting together. I am willing to stand up against Chase. Are you??? The only way things will change is if we make the changes.

08-24-2009, 11:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
snapple candy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,300 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay River, have you been offered the HAMP trial modification payment plan? That is different from a forbearance. I just finished my 3 mth trial payment and waiting to see final terms. Someone did post some good terms (like the ones yu mention above) given by Chase this past week but it was a verbal and nothing received in writing. WHen I see it in writing for me, I will believe it. Im 100k underwater so if it is no good, I walk away. If your payments are close to what you would pay for rent anyways, it justifies somewhat the case for making the 3 trial payments.

08-25-2009, 12:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
river22 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 30 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Hi Snapple, My trial plan is called a Forbearance Plan Agreement. starting on september 1st 2009. Pay 5200.00 per month for the next 3 months. It also states that the forbearance will not bring my account current. After the forbearance plan final payment is made, regular monthly payments will be due in addition to any delinqent payments, feesand or charges. If my account is not current once the forbearance period has ended, collection and or forecloser activity will resume. During the forbearance period my file may be reviewed for other work out options. This forbearance does not gaurantee a loan modification and at any time chase may withdraw this agreement. To me I am just going to give more money with out any proof of a modification. What would you do? I may need this money to find a new place to live. This is not a trial plan that i am comfortable with.

08-25-2009, 12:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
fe826 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay River, I find myself in the same dilema but even worse because I was offered a 3 month trial period plus I have to put down 10k. At the end of the trial period my application would be reviewed. This is a rental therefore I do have the 10k from the rent that I've collected but I am very hessitant in accepting their offer because I have a feeling they will deny my modification at the end of the 3months and by this time I would have given up the 10k + the pmt for 3 months. Aside from the rent that I collect I still have to put $1000 per month out of my pocket to pay mortgage. Not to mention the 20% that I put down for the property. I would like to save the rental house but if I don't get a lower interest rate or if they don't extend my loan to 40yrs then I see no point in turning over the 10k to find out that my pmt will not be reduced because when they place you on the "trial" there are no guarantees of what the final modification will be. I am a person with a lot of faith but with most of the stories I've read on here, the bank are not trustworthy and frankly I don't know if I should take one more leap of faith. By the way my lender is also chase. They made this trial offer today and said I would get docs in 7-10 days. Now that I think about it, If they really wanted to modify loans to make homes affordable they would give you something in concrete up front and make it effective when you complete your trial period. I wonder if anyone has turned their trial offer down and were able to work something else out? Thank you for your post.

08-25-2009, 12:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
river22 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 30 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay I am going to call chase in the morning and decline the trial offer and demand the hamp program. Its a long shot but it wont cost me any money. I looked through all the paperwork and it does not say hamp programe anywhere. All it says is forebearance plan agreement.

08-25-2009, 12:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
snapple candy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,300 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay fe, I did turn down the first loan mod Chase offered me but I also was fannie mae backed and knew about the HAMP program. I was firm in my resolve to get it and eventually did. I was ready to walk away if I didnt get it but also I was 1 year behind in my payments. I really had nothing to lose. I think you have to weigh alot of things that pertain to your own situation. Like how much underwater you are, if it is fannie or freddie to start. I had the govt. guidelines to quote and back up my demands. This business about putting money down is bs. They tried that on me too and I said I cant do it. I held my ground for a lower payment and they tacked the delinquent amount on the back end of the loan. Keep in mind they will try and get all they can out of you. If they know you have rental income in the bank, they will try and get you to use it. Personally, I wouldnt have any large sums in the bank like that. It is like a target with a bullseye on it. There is no incentive for them to modify if they know you have large cash reserve. If it was me, I would just say no and see what happens next. Chase even went so far as to file Notice of Sale on me and I still would not back down. Again, remember I had nothing to lose. Besides if I didnt get the lower payment, I couldnt stay anyways. They initially offered me a mod that really wasnt a long term solution. It sounds like both of you are being handed the same. If you dont like what they are offering, write reject on it and send it back. I was and still am ready to walk away. Your mind set at least has to be there to negotiate what you want. Also you cant care about your credit score either. River, what is your current payment set at? or How much has it been reduced per month?

08-25-2009, 03:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
jakelabry Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 200 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay river22, by all means apply for the HAMP program but please check the requirements here: Making Home Affordable - Home With a payment of $5200 a month sounds like you having a pretty substantial loan and the HAMP program only covers first loans of up to 729K.

08-25-2009, 08:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
fe826 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Snapple, Thank you so much for your input. I don't mind putting the 10k down but I will not do it if they don't give me something in writing and concrete as far as what my modification will be after the trial period. I will wait to get the docs in the mail write reject and send them an explanation of what I want. If they are not willing to budge which I'm sure they wont I will request a short sale. Putting 1000 out our pocket for a rental makes no sense in the economy that we are in right now. It's just been a tough decision to make since we've made so many sacrifices to reach for an ideal. As far as rental income is concerned, you mentioned not having that amt in the bank but where do i stash it and how? Call me naive or plain stupid but I am oblivious to this twisted, absurd modification game. After we stopped making the payments because it was impossible to come up with 1k out of pocket when my husband was out of work for 6 wks no pay, we never touched the rental income and just left it in the bank hoping that one day we will be able to used it to negotiate a mod. Plus in my mind I couldn't be using this money if wasn't mine. I'll though we did face some very tough months & borrowed from it so we can eat but replaced it as soon as we could. I still cant put my mind around the fact that you get punished for being honest. Please bare with my stupidity but how would i justify collecting rent not making pmt and no money in the bank? Can anyone please reply to this. I need to get savvy and fast! It might be too late. so much for having values... How would I justify withdrawing such a big chunk of $ after I submitted all my paperwork? Does anyone know if I would qualify for the HAMP program if its a rental? Need to learn to play their game PRONTO!

08-25-2009, 08:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
fe826 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay I just answered my own question. I went to the link provided on this thread and I don't qualify its a rental. Thanks for the link jakelabry!

08-25-2009, 04:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
SwillerAlesbane Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 124 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay There have been a very few people who have gotten the modification after the 3 month trial plan...I am one. Read my post. Every situation is different, for me, I was willing to risk losing my home if I didn't get a modification, but then again, I don't have "rental" properties, and I wasn't able to play the Real Estate Casino with anyone else's money. Personally, I think if it's not the home your living in, it should go back to the bank...no mod. People who bought 2nd 3rd 4th homes with the Casino's money, should not be "bailed out". For that matter, NONE of our loans (including mine) should be re-worked with US Government dollars. The whole thing should have just been left alone and the market would have crashed and corrected itself. If the bank wasn't willing to "deal" with me, fine, take this house that is worth $100,000 less than what I owe. Can't have that though...bankers suffering loss? Rental living is looking pretty darn good about now.

08-25-2009, 07:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
fe826 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Swiller, I have to say I do agree with your thoughts of the whole house market should of just been left alone instead of putting so many people through so much aggravation to find out that the majority of us will end up in foreclosure but as far as gambling with someone else money... well...the 10k is not even a fraction of the 20% that I put down plus the $1000 a month out of pocket that I have been paying for two years. Again I was responsible enough as far as not using that money and I am willing to pay it back to the bank if they just give me a lower interest rate so that I can afford the pmt. Thank you for your reply.

08-25-2009, 08:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
Marie T Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 478 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Swiller - I agree with you to a point...if someone worked at McDonalds and bought a McMansion on a stated income loan with 0 Down on an 80/20 (first and second), used an ARM to start with so they could afford payments initially and now that the loan has adjusted, they can't afford it, that is different than some of us who were well qualified and put 20% of our own money down and invested much more money into the house while living there several years. I have friends, who, when they were selling their home, the best offer they got at the time was "only" $23,000 more than what their payoff was (first and second and refi in the mix). They owned the home less than three years, had bought it on an 80/20 - no money down, and had taken another $50,000 out later in a refi to buy a car and start a business. They had never put a penny into making the home better...did not even put any landscaping in or finish basement. Luckily (for them) they bought another house before they got behind on payments on the first house and were later foreclosed. And, no ...I do not think that other people should have paid for their mistake but now that their house has (eventually) sold for $120,000 less at auction, all of their neighbors are paying for it when they sell their homes and some people have no choice but to sell if they are transferred or whatever. So, I think each homeowner has a unique situation and it is very wrong for the lenders to throw us all in the computer and use one formula. My loan is not government backed, so I am at the mercy of what my lender, Washington Mutual, wants to do. I am sure that they will not look at my loan and say ....we have already collected four or five hundred thousand in interest on this loan - let's give her a break!!

08-29-2009, 02:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
caldwellb02 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 1,764 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Marie T - you are always a voice of reason. There are many different stories here. Quite frankly, following all of them makes my head spin. I am trying to tear myself away from this on a sunny Saturday to go take a walk and I just have to after this post! My house is my home. It's not a rental. I was given what I know now to be a predatory loan (they inflated my income), but at the time I wasn't worried about the payments because my son was paying half, the market would keep going up, we'd refi in a few years, and all would be well. But the market tanked, my son's income tanked and he can't help, I can't sell cuz I'm underwater, and I am getting the runaround of all runarounds from Chase and now even from Naca. I am in default for the first time this month. Either I'll lose the home or I'll get Chase to finally work with me. I've written congressmen and senators, complained to the OCC..... I'm trying to wrap my head around not being here in this home that I painted with colors I love, etc., etc., while still fighting for it. It is incredibly stressful. I agree they should look at each of us uniquely - For god's sake, those are people like us at the other end of the phone. What must they be thinking???????

08-29-2009, 06:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
Hard Times Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 162 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay River----I just happened to read all these posts tonight (Sat 8/29). Looks like you have a fairly large mortgage. One post from "Jakel.." may have been wrong. If your property is actually a 2 or 4 unit condo/apartment, with renters in it, I think the upper limit is around 1.5 million. So, I wasnt clear if you owned a home and also had another rental property which was seperate, or if it was attached. If the property you are trying to get a mod on is actually a seperate structure, not a part of your primary residence, then I do not think the HAP mod will apply. I have to agree with others comments that only a primary residence should be considered under the HAP program. It seems those with the luxury of having rental properties could sell them if they are having trouble paying the mortgage on their primary residence. Just my honest opinion. At any rate, I personally would not accept that forbearance offer.

08-30-2009, 03:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
SwillerAlesbane Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 124 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a jerk. There are some out here in California who played the market and now are getting "modification" and treated the same as those of us who put 20% down of our own money. Believe me, I feel the pain and every single story is different. To go one step higher, I think this whole bubble was planned or at least fueled knowingly from the top down, and now those of us who just happened to be caught buying in the pre-bubble/bubble market have to bear the brunt....or walk and ruin our credit as well as lose out homes we have worked to improve. I have no answers and found that getting angry wasn't helping. Best of luck and if I can help through posting...I will.

08-30-2009, 05:43 PM	#16 (permalink)
caldwellb02 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 1,764 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Swiller - I understand. But even those of us who didn't put money down, but would have if we could, and have no stocks or 401K's or whatever in our pockets, need help. I have to admit I have the most compassion for people who are worried about their own homes, and not rentals. I selfishly think that if the mod is for the home you live in, it should be considered first.

09-02-2009, 10:31 AM	#17 (permalink)
river22 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 30 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay I need advice!!! I declined the forbearance Agreement. I sent a letter to executive resolution. They have responded to me today and said, once the forbearance has been put in place on the the account the file is closed in EGR. I dont know what that means. I stated in my letter an amicaple solution that would benifit Chase and make the home affordable for me. Executive Resolution responded that they do not take suggestions from customers nor can the modification be neogotiated. He did say that Chase Bank is just a servicer on my loan and that The Bank Of New York is the investor. I am going to call back today to see what I need to do. I am not going to sign the forbearance agreement. I would only be throwing another $15000.00 away. The forbearance does not garantee a loan modification. and as far as I can tell it will go over 3 months into 4 or even 5 which would be $25000.00 If anyone has any advice on this please let me know what you think.

09-02-2009, 01:41 PM	#19 (permalink)
snapple candy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,300 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay River, I dont know how much your original payments were but I can only assume that the forbearance payment isnt much of a help to you. Personally, i stuck to my guns and eventually got what I wanted...at least so far. You have a different investor and I suggest you research them. You might even want to try and contact them directly. Maybe consult an attorney cuz it sound like you are gonna have to play hard ball. I have heard by an investor recently that some have suggested OK lets talk about short sale options and that puts a scare into them to negotiate. Of course BK also can do that. File a complaint with the OTC and BBB. Also might want to send them a QWR asking for the original loan docs,etc. That seems to be having some sucess. Is Chase saying that your investor doesnt participate in the HAMP program? I turned down a loan mod (didnt write them) and then waited to see what they would do. They eventually started foreclosure proceedings. Good luck and hang in there. Just keep fighting until you can fight no more.

09-02-2009, 02:28 PM	#20 (permalink)
GonnaMakeIt Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 25 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay [quote=snapple candy;119456] Also might want to send them a QWR asking for the original loan docs,etc. That seems to be having some sucess. What is QWR?

09-02-2009, 02:46 PM	#21 (permalink)
Hard Times Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 162 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay River......:You never answered prior posts.......It was unclear if this mod was on your primary residence or a second rental property you own, or if you owned a 2-4 unit apartment and was trying to get a mod on that. Is this an attempt to change terms on a secondary property? If so, I have to say that I think a forbearance is all you will get.....the HAMP mods are only for those living in a primary residence, with no other homes and assets. It would not be fair to allow wealthier americans with more than one home to qualify for these mods. Clarify this so we can respond accurately. thanks.

09-03-2009, 12:08 AM	#22 (permalink)
river22 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 30 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Hardtimes, This was my permenet home until I couldnt afford the payments anymore. I have had to move out of the area to keep working. I am renting the home out but with the work slow and the rate adjustments on the loan I will not be able to keep the home unless the loan is modified. The home is worth much less than what I bought it for. I can not even get enough rent to cover the mortgage payment. I am a residential contractor and with the housing market in the toilet my industry has been hit hard. I have to go where the work is. My credit is ruined and I am only trying to hold on to what I have left for 22 years of hard work. I dont come from a wealthy family and only have what I have worked for. This home was going to be my retirement. But the way it is looking I may end up in a low income apt. Things need to change with the banks. The way I see it is the banks were given help from the government to help the people but no help has been passed on to us. Chase bank has only offerd false hopes to modification. I have to say, if I ran my business the way chase runs theirs, I would have no clients. It is a disrespect to all the the hard working Citizens of the United States Of America to be treated the way Chase Bank has done. I am not asking for any favors. I am only asking the bank to lower the interest rate on my loan to make the payment affordable. At least then I can rent the home out until work picks up and eventually move back into the house. I talked with law firm that represents Chase in the forecloser process and they told me today that our home is scheduled for sale on september 9th. I was never sent any notification that this was taking place. When I spoke with executive resolution today they never mentioned this to me. This is the bs that Chase Bank is doing. So if I were to agree to the forbearance I would be throwing my money away. I think with all the efforts they put into creating caos, they could channel these efforts and modify some homes.

09-03-2009, 03:05 AM	#24 (permalink)
GonnaMakeIt Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 25 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay River, Wow...I feel the same way! Chase has also NOT informed me of sale dates, etc! I thought they were to post the letter to your door as well as mail a copy? One thing I can say though, I faxed and refaxed documents required for my modification, Chase continually said I was missing this or that....In the 2 days prior to the scheduled sale, I called several times, got names and faxed information FOUR times. I called the morning of the sale date and got a supervisor to postpone it 1 hour before the sale! Being persistent can at least buy you time...if you need it.

09-03-2009, 04:17 AM	#25 (permalink)
Do not want to lose it Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Americas Hometown Posts: 65 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Re: To Pay Or Not To Pay Faith, Thank you for that info! It could be just the thing to help a lot of us here.

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