Emc chase denied load mod after 9 months of waiting!!!

[Stressed_EMC_Customer]

We received a phone call from EMC today and were notified that we were denied due to insufficient income. This is the reason why we applied for this isn't it??? When we received the mortgage 2 years ago, our income was even less than it is now. I asked the supervisor how we were originally approved for the loan (of course he couldn't answer that). Anyway, we were never late with a payment and have been living on credit cards for the past 2 years. We cannot make this month's payment so now what??? We have started the process with NACA 2 weeks ago and haven't even got entered into the system yet. Are we wasting our time???

[MAXIE19]

Stressed:

Did they provide you with any specifics for the denial....how much surplus/deficit did you show with your budget.....what is your plan B? Found out that I was also denied last week Thursday for the same reason, insufficient income. I have since contacted the ET to request a reconsideration and updated my financial information form to show that I paid off some accounts and now showing a surplus of $516.00 as compared to the $138.00 I originally submitted. Don't know if this enough though. I am also following the NACA route and scheduled for my first phone interview tomorrow. Will see how all this plays out. Also, praying hard....when all else fails...God will surely see us through.

[AACPA]

I did the same and I am now showing $700 in surplus where before I was in the hole by about $500 per month. We'll have to keep track of each other's re-submittal's to see how Chase handles this. Personally, I think this "insufficient income" BS is just that BS. Just another way for the mortgage company's to deny as many people as possible for the HAMP program.

[Stressed_EMC_Customer]

MAXIE19 - He would not provide specifics, just that the income was not enough to support the payment. He said they also tried to extend to 40 years and that still wasn't going to work. Of course, they didn't try to forgive principle. We have a DTI of 57% currently (that's without living expenses, etc). He also said we cannot dispute the denial and that there was nothing to dispute since there is not enough income. What gets me is that we were approved for this mortgage when we making less money.

We are totally exhausted with this entire ordeal. We will stand to lose $120,000 if we give up the house plus will owe them money since we can't sell for what we owe. It's a total disaster. We also need to know if there is a good lawyer to handle this in New Jersey? If anybody knows of one in NJ with a good reputation, please advise.

[MAXIE19]

AACPA:

Did you resubmit through the regular channels or through the ET. I resubmitted through the ET and also emailed her a letter of contribution from my husband itemizing his monthly contributions to the household as reflected in our joint checking account dating back to August 2008. Then I averaged the total over 12 months and it is actually showing an increase of $1555 more than the conservative figure I was using. My expenses did go up though, because I went back and added my monthly average business expense of about $2200. The new figures with the paid off accounts resulted in a surplus of $516.00. I may be able to show additional surplus after they rework our escrow based on the reduced property taxes.

One concern that I have about the new numbers is that no one knows exactly what Chase is looking for, if anything. Don't want to manipulate the numbers too much and then have to deal with the opposite end of the spectrum......there determination that we can now afford our mortgage based on the new numbers.

[MAXIE19]

Stressed:

But how much is your income to your expenses.....do you have a surplus....if they tried to extend to 40 years at what rate....did they tell you....did they try 2% at 40 years......do you mind posting the specifics to give us a better understanding of each individual situation.....I have been playing with the numbers and believe that if they really tried 2% at 40 years that I should qualify or even 2% at 31 years.

[Stressed_EMC_Customer]

Our net income per month is $4,600 and the mortgage payment is $4,100. They gave us an interest only loan in the amount of $417,000 and a second mortgage in the amount of $81,000 2 years ago. We were making less at the time the mortgage was written.

Our monthly expenses are $2,400 without the mortgage therefore we are in the negative by at least $2,000 per month (which is the total debt we incur each month on the credit cards for the past 2 years). We were praying that we were going to be modified then were going to file bankruptcy on the credit cards.

He didn't say what rate he was trying to reduce to.

[MAXIE19]

Chase Home Finance LLC

4/13/2009

$3,552,000,000

79,304

20%

Based on the stats released today, Chase has received over $ 3.5 bil in taxpayer funds. They have over 79000 borrowers on a trial modification since they started modifying loans on 4/13 which represents about 20% of eligible delinquent loans. Sounds like the imminent default loans are being forgotten in this process.

[AACPA]

I also read an article online today that said that the majority of people who apply for for the HAMP mods won't qualify due to not having enough income. I'll have to see if I can find the article and post a link to it. What is the point of this program if it doesn't help the people who need it most?

[jakelabry]

Originally Posted by Stressed_EMC_Customer

Our net income per month is $4,600 and the mortgage payment is $4,100. They gave us an interest only loan in the amount of $417,000 and a second mortgage in the amount of $81,000 2 years ago. We were making less at the time the mortgage was written.

Our monthly expenses are $2,400 without the mortgage therefore we are in the negative by at least $2,000 per month (which is the total debt we incur each month on the credit cards for the past 2 years). We were praying that we were going to be modified then were going to file bankruptcy on the credit cards.

He didn't say what rate he was trying to reduce to.

Stressed - the lowest they can go on the gov't program is 2% amortized over 40 years. If they were to do that your payment on first loan would be $1262 P & I only. You must add to this taxes, insurance, and any homeowners association fees - these could bump that payment easily up to $1700 to $2000. Add to this your 2400 in other expenses every month, then it is cutting it really close. Also does any of this include the payments on the second mortgage? The other thing you have to remember - they are not giving these 2% rate for the life of the loan. That interest will go up in 5 years to current market rates. The decision to deny may be based on sustainability - yeah you can do it at this rate, but what happens when it goes back up? Then you are back in the same situation you are in with the current loan.

Why did they approve you with your current income for this loan to begin with? Because that's what they were doing and everybody was making money. You said yourself it was an interest only loan, making the initial payments artificially low to fit your income. They (you) expected one of two things to happen: your income would increase before the reset or you would sell at a substantial profit before that payment became principal and interest. It's the way business was done during the housing boom and a lot of people made money off of that - including homeowners. BUT ... it was not sustainable in the long run, led to lots of abuses, and has left all of us worse off.

[NohelpfromEMC]

After reading some of the stories of denials due to insuffiient income I am getting confused.

I thought that if the backend DTI was over 55% that you must agree to obtain credit counseling. The MHA guidelines say nothing about disqualification due to the backend DTI being too high. The main concern was the frontend DTI being 31% to 36%.

[jakelabry]

Originally Posted by NohelpfromEMC

After reading some of the stories of denials due to insuffiient income I am getting confused.

I thought that if the backend DTI was over 55% that you must agree to obtain credit counseling. The MHA guidelines say nothing about disqualification due to the backend DTI being too high. The main concern was the frontend DTI being 31% to 36%.

They key to all of this is that participation is voluntary on the part of lenders/investors. IF they choose to participate, then they use those guidelines. They can also make decisions based on the perceived success/feasibility of modifications. If they decide it is in their best interests to go ahead and foreclose, then they will do so.

[NohelpfromEMC]

The point is that they have chosen to participate..(Chase)

Some of the denials are going to current customers and they CANNOT forclose on someone who is current.

[shade]

Originally Posted by jakelabry

They key to all of this is that participation is voluntary on the part of lenders/investors. IF they choose to participate, then they use those guidelines. They can also make decisions based on the perceived success/feasibility of modifications. If they decide it is in their best interests to go ahead and foreclose, then they will do so.

Sorry jake I dont agree -

The rules clearly state they must bring your payment down to 31% of income called the front end DTI.
Then they add that new payment to yoru existing debt and come up with the back end DTI. If that backend is over 55% you have to agree to get counseling. There is NOTHING that states you can be denied for being over 55%. I bet 75% of the members trying to get load mods have over a 75% back end DTI. Most are close to 100% but again no where in the rules does it state that you have to be X percent. And your line of thinking of perceived success is moot. Thats not for them to decide thats why there are guidelines.
What about this - would the banks have survived without my tax money? I perceive not so lets close up the banks...That line of thinking IMO doesnt work.

Also the 31% payment is to include taxes, HOA fees etc so the payment will not go from 1200 to 1700 or 2000.

[babbles]

Originally Posted by AACPA

I did the same and I am now showing $700 in surplus where before I was in the hole by about $500 per month. We'll have to keep track of each other's re-submittal's to see how Chase handles this. Personally, I think this "insufficient income" BS is just that BS. Just another way for the mortgage company's to deny as many people as possible for the HAMP program.

I think I read on one of your previous posts that someone recommended you try going 30 days late on your payment and it has not worked for you thus far? I will not intentionally go late if I don't have to and I think that is horrible advice!

[AACPA]

I think I read on one of your previous posts that someone recommended you try going 30 days late on your payment and it has not worked for you thus far? I will not intentionally go late if I don't have to and I think that is horrible advice!

Yes it was the advice BUT at the time no one knew if that was what it took to get Chase's attention although we all did strongly suspect that it was at that time. I did go intentionally 30 days late and it did not get Chase to move any faster on my file. Doesn't really matter at this point anyway since Chase denied my request for a mod. On Friday of last week I was denied for "insufficient income" and when I called today I was told I was denied due to "no hardship" which is complete bull. My PTI is over 40% of my gross monthly income so how can they say there is no hardship? I was told today that because I am self-employed I need to reduce my business expenses by firing a few employees and do more of the work myself. I explained to them that since my business is service based, firing employees will cause me to make even less money since I can't possibly do all the work myself especially since I am already working 60-80 hrs per week. When one BS excuse didn't work Chase found another and another. IMHO, they are looking for any reason to deny a loan mod under HAMP and if you're self employed they use it against you to find a reason to deny the mod.

[peggyinfl]

This is exactly why everyone needs to write their Congressman, president etc etc etc.

[peppy]

Stressed:
I don't understand why you are surprised that you were denied due to "insufficient income". You said yourself that you have had to live off of your credit cards for the past two years, since the loan began. So, that tells me that you have "insufficient income".

Shade:
IMO, I believe the banks/gov't have the right to deny some people for "insufficient income". I also think some of us have bought houses that we could have never afforded. If you could not afford your payment the first month of your mortgage, why should the banks/gov't bail you out now? If a mod was completed, it seems very, very likely to end in default in the near future.

[AACPA]

Originally Posted by peppy

Stressed:
I don't understand why you are surprised that you were denied due to "insufficient income". You said yourself that you have had to live off of your credit cards for the past two years, since the loan began. So, that tells me that you have "insufficient income".

Shade:
IMO, I believe the banks/gov't have the right to deny some people for "insufficient income". I also think some of us have bought houses that we could have never afforded. If you could not afford your payment the first month of your mortgage, why should the banks/gov't bail you out now? If a mod was completed, it seems very, very likely to end in default in the near future.

uummmm.....those who post here try to be supportive and non-judgemental of each other. No one knows exactly what is going on with each others circumstances, and no one has the right to judge. Posts like that are a good way to get yourself banned from the forum.

[peppy]

Sorry, it was not my intention to be judgemental, just realistic.


I am on this board, b/c I am in need of a modification, as well.

[Jillian118]

A lot of us didnt buy outside of our means, but had those means diminished. Unfortunately (well atleast in my case) my house is so far underwater that I cannot sell it. So, im stuck. Im working two jobs and killing myself to make sure wamu gets paid, while they have been giving me the runaround as to whether they can help me for almost 8 months now. So eventually something is going to have to give.

This process has been very very enlightening. Its frustrating when big companies like AIG and all these banks get government bail out money when they are in trouble...yet it seems that most of us on this end cannot even get a return phone call.

[chasepmt2hot-firefighter]

This process has been very very enlightening. Its frustrating when big companies like AIG and all these banks get government bail out money when they are in trouble...yet it seems that most of us on this end cannot even get a return phone call.

Amen...

[Bert C]

Very well put Jillian. I couldn't agree more!