Interested in more details of recent denials due to insufficient income

[CHANLY]

I noticed a lot of people have posted recently they were denied due to insufficient income. I am not clear on whether these are denials for the trial period payment plan or denials of people finishing the trial period and waiting on permanent mods. Also, are these loans Fannie or Freddie loans or other investors?? Were you behind on payments. Just trying to get a feel for what is going on lately.

[Marie T]

Hi Chanly...I was actually thinking of starting a similar thread ...I agree...seems like a lot of denials for insufficient income so maybe all of us can post here what we know..I believe that "insufficient income" is just a handy catch-all for CHASE to deny us. If we had sufficient income all of us would be able to pay our mortgage, right?

I started the process originally in February when I found out WAMU had added in over $10,000 in closing fees to my "no closing-fee, streamline" re-fi. I discovered Loan Mods existed when I was researching what to do about my predatory loan because I could not get through to talk to anyone at WAMU about what I thought was "mistake" in math on my loan.

I have since figured out after meeting with a couple of attorneys and showing them my loan documents that it was an intentional "bait and switch" and illegal. While all this was going on , I ended up in the hospital, unable to work and my husbands income was also reduced so ended up missing the first payment in March. Talked to WAMU about loan mod and it took about six weeks to finally get Mod forms in mail!! Noone at WAMU bothered to tell me I could go to website and get forms. I also wasted a lot of time talking to loan mod companies - thank heavens I never gave then any money!

I met with a couple of local homesaver non-profits and was referred to a local Chase Homeownership Center and I think everything was submitted in May. I later met with NACA and they submitted my file last month. I am two months behind on payment and really trying not to be 90 days behind.

When I questioned why I was denied, I was told I was about $2,000 month "short". Since then, I have actually increased our income by about $1,500 a month and I have made the decision to quit paying about $1,200 month in credit card debt (I am putting money aside to do a settlement) and I have cut household expenses by about $300 a month.

I resubmitted everything last week knowing that they will probably still look at our credit report with minimum payments on cc's so that could still kill the mod. I have a couple of things to sway them to do the mod:

* I have a predatory loan
* NACA submitted my file a few weeks ago also
* Our house has some fairly severe structural damage
* I may be able to sign on to some debt settlement company for the cc's if they give me a hard time about the cc payments (although I would rather do it myself and save the 15% fee thay cahrge!)

So...I realize we will probably just squeak by and that is if they look at the whole picture and I do not have a lot of faith that the folks working at CHASE have that capability. I am 100% commission and unless I get another big deal soon, my income average goes down every month and I will be back where we started.

I have done the math and if we can get a 2% for 5 years, then have it set at 5% for the next 25 to 35 years, we can make it work and repair our house over time. It has to make sense to us financially for us to put the money and (a lot of) labor into the house to fix it. The structural damage is not WAMU's fault but not ours either and we have already put all our savings in the house to fix as much as we have.

If CHASE will not work with us, they will end up with a skeleton of a house with structural problems left to try to sell in foreclosure as we will take out everything we have put in and everyone will lose!

[minknmelissa]

I was denied for insufficient funds three times don't understand thought that was the point.
They won't tell me how much over my debt is i have a mortgage for 1850 and car 311 and food and utilities. My income is 4100 gross.. I haven't been able to make my credit card payments. So I don't know how they are going to look at that. I have b of a as servicer but my investor is Citibank. I think they put our names in a bag and pick
I just started with naca and i wrote to office of the president got call back and i am waiting what there going to say now it does say active processing but don't know if that matters

[shade]

Marie - did they base your short amount on yoru credit obligated debt or look at your monthly bank statements and use that?
Such creeps.

[Marie T]

Hi Shade...I was very honest when I originally did the application and filled out all the credit card payments. The only thing I left off was an obligation with the last payment this month ($50) and a payment for something we have listed for sale ($70) a month. I was so nieve that I thought the more it looked like I need a mod, the better chance I had!

So to answer your question, yes, I think they based it on the cc obligations and I am not sure if they will use what I wrote out on expenses - I have decreased that by about $1,500 all together or if they will just look at my credit report and minimum payment guidelines. CHASE Homeownership counselor also did not know which they used and also did not know if they would look at gross or net pay. Really crummy because he even mentioned that now my income could be too much and I might qualify for repayment plan!!!

It would sure help if the people they put in place to "help" us knew what was going on!!!

[a2kman]

For those who have been denied, was the before or after the 3 month trial?

[MAXIE19]

Minknmelissa:

How much was your monthly minimum credit card payments. Did you show a surplus with your financial worksheet if the CC payments were included. I showed a surplus of $138.00 and still got denied for insufficient income. I have since paid off two accounts which would free about $470.00 in my monthly budget. Don't know how much of a difference this would make though. Still waiting for the ET to get back to me with the details of my denial.

[minknmelissa]

Right now without mod I don't have a surplus I am under 400 you mean I have to be over without mod if I was over I wouldn't need it.. If u are over four hundred I can't see them turning you down my sister was over 500 and she just paid her first month trial.

[AACPA]

Found this on another message board by someone who claims to work for a company helping people doing the HAMP mods. He spells out exactly what you need to have income wise to qualify. I don't know if it is accurate or not but figured I'd share. The post is half way down the page. Here is the link:

Can anyone help home loan mod/doc.audit - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net

[Jillian118]

It says that you can only apply once?? I don't like the sound of that especially when you see all of these people getting denied for absolutely no good reason or being denied with no reasons at all.

[Lainy09]

AACPA--Thank you SO much for posting that link! That is the first time I've been able to figure out how Chase was coming up with some particular #'s they were quoting, and why it makes sense that in our particular situation, we don't qualify for the Obama plan. I honestly couldn't move forward until I fully understood why...We are going to go ahead and give the in-house mod a shot, though I can already tell that is not going to be a smooth road either, but we really want to keep the house so at this point, we'll try. Thanks AGAIN. really!

[learning patience]

We were denied PRE- trial agreement being sent.... a couple times in the last 18 months.

Our sitch is different b/c we filed Chp 7 in the meantime, but got legal confirmation today (for a small "insurance" fee...thank you Fransen & Molinaro!!!) that we are cleared to go forward w/ the Trial Modification. Here goes to a leap of faith!

Lainy09....I was told that because of the way we wrote it up in Chp 7...we're so upside down....yadayada.... that we really have the upper hand in our situation. So maybe that's the case for you too?

Been trying to get on this site all afternoon....."server too busy...try again later..." argh! Way to go loansafe! I think you're about to get REALLY busy!

[MaryJune123]

In response to requesting more info on some of the denials. In my case, I applied for a loan mod with Wells Fargo. This is an ALT A interest only jumbo loan of $650k. I applied through a HUD counselor. I have never been late on a payment but things have changed and income has been reduced. I was recently denied for ANY modification because it was outside the investor's guidelines. When I contacted the Executive office, Wells indicated that I was denied because the investor had no guarantee that I could make the "modified" payments, my income was to low. Of course this did not make sense because I have not been late at all on a non-modified loan. They informed that if I walked into a bank today for a loan, I would not qualify for a loan. So, I pressed on and then was told that I had a shortfall of $2,500. And this is where I am totally stumped! It is as if they added a couple of thousand dollars to my debt or only included a portion of my income. I in no way find a $2,500 shortfall. Do they pad the debt? Do they reduce your income?

[shade]

Please see my other post
MHA documentation

[shade]

Also who is the investor?