Anyone finalize after the 3rd mod payment w/ Chase?

[learning patience]

famlena, I'm so sorry about what went down for you after waiting so damn long. You persisted though, and there is a LOT to be said for that! You should still be very proud of yourself for staying the course, no matter the outcome! All along, what I've said to myself when my husband "gave up" on the BS that we all have gone through, my mantra has been, "I need to do whatever I can to fight for this....and if, in the long term, it turns sour, I can at least say I did everything I could." And that's all we can do.

So here we are....still waiting...learning patience... getting ready to make our 3rd trial payment Oct. 1st and have been contacted by "Kelly" asking for our most recent paystubs & bank statement, because "by the time the 3rd payment is made, the underwriter should have all of your documents ready for the permanent modification if nothing has changed." If/when the docs do come in, I will be having F & M law firm look them over for us !

snapple....I'm interested in how you got the Dept of Ed to discharge some of your student loans, and wondering if I might qualify for that too? <

Keep on keepin' on everyone!

[snapple candy]

learning patience,
IT is interesting that you have not made your last trial payment yet and that they are calling you asking for updated financials. Many of us on trials have not gotten that. Did you get your trial mod contract back signed by Chase?

As for student loan discharge, it is a very tight criteria that has to be met for hardship for discharge. I am older (0ver 50) and have a chronic medical condition, one in the long term that has affected my ability to work at times and could in the future. Your future earning abilities has alot to do with it. If you are younger and have earning capacity for the future that could pay them off, it is doubtful you can obtain a discharge unless you have a medical condition.
I also have a kid that was recently diagnosed with a medical condition that will need my care for an unknown period of time.
If your hardship will affect you for years (I think 3-5 years min), All though I dont know for sure, past earning capacity can also play a part of it. Looking at my yearly wages over the past 25 years, it is pretty dismal. I have been taking care of kids for almost 30 years and have always worked but only part-time so my social security statement shows the maximum I have ever made in a year. The reasons leading up to my BK were tough also. I pretty much cleaned out all my 401K and monies from the sale of a home in a lengthy divorce and custody battle. IT pretty much destroyed me financially. I lost my health insurance and need to do an expensive year-long treatment in the next couple years.I have been trying to recover ever since. I still may loose my house in the end.
ALthough not always (I think), to seek a discharge, you usually file what is called an adversarial proceeding in conjunction with a BK filing. That is where you start. Finding a good BK attorney whom knows how to and willing to do it is key. I can find exact legal language for you that defines the hardship if you want. There is a guy out of So. CAL that has an on-line bk business that I consulted with whom was very good. Hope that helps.

[snapple candy]

Kirk,
Hang in there for yourself and your daughter. You will hear alot of sad stories here and you are one of them. Hang in there for yourself and your daughter.
I take it you are self-employed with variable income? This may be part of your problem with Chase figuring your net income. Thye may be basing your payment on the maximum gross income you have told them. I suggest taking an average and working from there so as not to complicate it for them (some of these people are not too sharp or well trained and may input info incorrectly). I always have heard they used gross but with self-employed it is becoming more difficult. I suggest you check out some of the other threads regarding Chase and self-employed people.
I too have a teenager with a medical condition, have a medical condition my self and lost my health insurance, and I am buried in medical costs so I understand your plight.
It sounds like they have made a lot of changes in your mortgage without your knowledge and understanding. I can only suggest you hang out here and educate yourself on the process so you know where to attack the bad behavior. You may need an attorney to help you in the event there was not full disclosure.

You did not say if the mod offer was the HAMP (govt) modification program. If it is not, then I would write REJECT on it and send it back and push for the HAMP program especially if it doesnt help you financially.. There is alot of others info you need to determine so you can get help from everyone on the site. If WAMU stopped by, its probably to determine that the place in owner occupied. Hang in there kirk.

[SONORACADREAM]

Snapple Candy,

I am looking over the paperwork, there is no indication of the HAMP program anywhere, it say's this is a WAMOO loss mitigation program, a loan loan workout request. I will send it back and reject thier offer.
I see no point in paying more than I could afford in the first place on my 1st?.
My second gave me a loan extension and I am supposed to pay that by Oct 1st, I wonder if it is even worth paying the second?, I am hang on by thread's and it does not make sence.
HAMP is supposed to be stamped on the documents from WAMU? I do have the paper's added to the WAMU paper's.
Yes I am self employed, I was given a stated income loan and have been prompt in all my payment's for 10 years with the same bank until now I have hit the wall.
I believe I have reuhamatoid arthritus, my Mom has it and it get passed along, being a carpenter makes it the tough, but I am a stubborn German like my Mom is.
Thanks for the encouragement. Kirk

[snapple candy]

Kirk,
Did you download HAMP application from Chase website? I suggest you do that if you have not and fax in to WAMU loss Mitigation. If you have a contact number for a specific person whom you have been dealing with, call them (if you can actually reach them) and ask why you have not been considered for the HAMP program or whether this is a HAMP program. You can go to Making Home Affordable web site and see the actual application forms.
Another question, do you know if your 1st Mortgage with WAMU is a fannie mae or freddie mac loan?
If you get another round at this, you may want to consider in your hardship letter, you medical condition and how it may effect you in the future causing reduced wages,etc.
Who is your 2nd with? How underwater are you? Personally I stopped paying my 2nd when I could see they werent cooperating. Eventually it paid off. It really is a game of chicken. I think in the end, you have to be willing to walk away and act accordingly. If the pressure so much and you have maxed out all your credit and you are drowning, the house isnt worth it. Especially if you can go rent for less than your mortgage payment. I keep fighting, and I am not out of the woods yet. If I have to walk, then I will and I also rejected their first mod too. They served me with a Notice of Sale and then later recinded it. You have to be willing to take it to the end of the road. Sometimes thats when you get the results, when you have nothing to lose anymore.

[cmarquesjr]

I totally agree with you Snapple, i took my house 8 months no pmt's and all the way to the sale date to let them know i will walk away if they do not give me help and lo and behold i got a HAMP/MHA trial program i'm already 1 pmt into that and if they want to play games with the perm mod then i'll just stop paying again until they help, i'm over 240,000 underwater so they can either give me a perm mod or take the house and i'll file BK7 and just start over.

[franklyspeaking]

cn/snapple/cream, A little help here as your situation sounds alot like mine. Ok I have a FHA Loan with chase servicing it, 7 months behind ,they stopped my auction and approved me for a 3 month "trial" /forebearance. Should I reject this when I get it as its only to buy time and ask for the HAMP (which just came out for FHA). I dont want them to restart the auction /proceedings but this isnt helping me with the payments. The forebearnce is 3 payments almost to what my normal payments are! I'm thinking it might buy me time to get my documents/argument together etc. ??????????????????????????????????

[cmarquesjr]

Franklyspeaking, It probably is done accordingly by the situation, i was never offered a "forbearance trial", i was put right into a HAMP/MHA trial. I have a option arm/neg. amorization loan that reset from 1400 to 3400 after i hit 110% neg am. on the first loan and my home is way way underwater, i also had to have my auction halted on the morning of the auction! I submitted doc's on my Divorce which also put the "cut in income" hardship as well as the payment reset. Its hard to give advice to others as what they should do but if i was offered a forbearance with payments close to my normal payment and my auction was halted pending further notice from Chase i would download the online application if you already have'nt and fax it in with all my documentation at least 3 times wait 1 week and call them back to see if thay recieved it and if they need anything else. Then call every other day (document the rep's name, time of call, what was discussed, etc) to check your application status. Thats basicly whati did till i got my Trial Mod. some reps say they are missing info on you and some say they have everything they need, its a full time job doing this but you have to stick with it. I was told by many reps that as long as i had an application submitted and was in "application status" my house would stay in limbo(no sale) until they made thier decision. i dont know if my answer helps you but feel free to ask me any other questions concerning my situation if it will assist you in yours.

[famlena]

learning patience,
thank you for your kind words. i am still waiting for my negotiator to get back to me. she's researching the denial. i just want to know what's going to happen to the 5 payments that i made for both the 1st & 2nd loans. when will the foreclosure take place so that i can plan my move. no one at chase can give me an answer yet. i'm still in limbo...
i wish you and the others here the best of luck and hope that good news come your way.

[SONORACADREAM]

I also had the neg arm loan, it changed on me twice this last year, it gave a armortization schedeule? 40 years of predicted payments, I asked how is this possible? they said it is a computed amount. If I had a Computer that predicted 40 years of payments then I would own my own Island in the Bahama's.
Question to anyone who may know? is this a trial payment for both 1st and second? or just the first?
I was told buy a HUD councelor that 11/2 months behind on you first is nothing right now and relax. I hope she is right, I have allways been on top of all my bill's and now I am paying the ones that are the most important. Should I pay my property tax of 2500 or let that ride.It is a small town and they need the money, so I feel obliged to.
I see folks in thier homes for a year now without action.It is a gamble either way.
I will quit the docks chase wamu sent, it says this is a effort to collect a debit at the top of the page,I is not HAMP approved,it looks like what every one else here is talking about.
Take Care, Kirk

[famlena]

fyi - i was told by one of the reps that chase has a new system where each month a new analyst is assigned to my file.

i was recently denied a perm mod because of insufficient income. i spoke to the closer inquiring for more details about the denial and come to find out that chase did not take into consideration that my brother's contributing/paying rent to me to share my house. i believe that would be considered income. she said that my case has already been closed and she needed to check with her supervisor to see if they can reopen it. she said there was no guarantees that my file can be reopened. i can't believe i've waited all this time just to have this happen to me. they made an error and may not be able to or want to correct it.

make sure you verify that they have the correct info entered into their system. once the file is closed it's difficult to have it reopened. so be careful. i wish had verify the info with them...

[learning patience]

Originally Posted by snapple candy

learning patience,
IT is interesting that you have not made your last trial payment yet and that they are calling you asking for updated financials. Many of us on trials have not gotten that. Did you get your trial mod contract back signed by Chase?

As for student loan discharge, it is a very tight criteria that has to be met for hardship for discharge. I am older (0ver 50) and have a chronic medical condition, one in the long term that has affected my ability to work at times and could in the future. Your future earning abilities has alot to do with it. If you are younger and have earning capacity for the future that could pay them off, it is doubtful you can obtain a discharge unless you have a medical condition.
I also have a kid that was recently diagnosed with a medical condition that will need my care for an unknown period of time.
If your hardship will affect you for years (I think 3-5 years min), All though I dont know for sure, past earning capacity can also play a part of it. Looking at my yearly wages over the past 25 years, it is pretty dismal. I have been taking care of kids for almost 30 years and have always worked but only part-time so my social security statement shows the maximum I have ever made in a year. The reasons leading up to my BK were tough also. I pretty much cleaned out all my 401K and monies from the sale of a home in a lengthy divorce and custody battle. IT pretty much destroyed me financially. I lost my health insurance and need to do an expensive year-long treatment in the next couple years.I have been trying to recover ever since. I still may loose my house in the end.
ALthough not always (I think), to seek a discharge, you usually file what is called an adversarial proceeding in conjunction with a BK filing. That is where you start. Finding a good BK attorney whom knows how to and willing to do it is key. I can find exact legal language for you that defines the hardship if you want. There is a guy out of So. CAL that has an on-line bk business that I consulted with whom was very good. Hope that helps.

Hi Snapple. Wow!!!!! It seems like this loan mod is the 'icing on the cake' for everything that you are going/have been through. Although I really appreciate your offer to help find legal languaging for the student loans, I think your plate is full enough!!! Thank you so much for this response/information! My loans are mother-of-young-child deferred for (yet) another year, and won't be in my face again until next July. Ours has just been financial hardship, husband lost his job, my work slowed down to a trickle... Hopefully, my earning capacity will pick up when kids are a little older... ours doesn't even touch the hardship that you are going through and you have been a source of MAJOR inspiration for me since last Spring while reading through these threads here.... and now even moreso....simply because it seems to me that you just keep going. I picture you the energizer bunny!

No, we did not get the trial mod back signed by Chase. And I was really surprised that we were contacted regarding the last set of financials too. ??? We make our 3rd pymnt end of this week and I will post with a new thread as soon as we hear from them. I just heard of a friend in the next town over who is in the exact same place we are w/ Chase, and she was also contacted for her last set of financials. I took that as a good sign, we'll see.

[litehouse01]

I too am getting to make our 3rd payment on our hamp trial but no one has contacted me at all about anything......I wish they would...I can't seem to get any information when I call only" nothing new".....I wonder why some folks get called and others don't is this a bad sign or am I reading too much into it? However I am so very happy for those who have gotten called I pray the end is in sight and you get your perm Mod and soon I wish all the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep us all posted

[SBBLUEWATER1]

We already made our 3rd trial mod payment back in July and were told not to make a 4th because our "final" loan mod docs were due to be sent to us ASAP. Now when I call to find out what is happening they say it may be another 45 to 60 days before they even decide if we are going to get a permanent mod! Be very careful with what Chase says. So far they have not come through and it is clear that their policies and procedures have huge holes in them. People are not supposed to get trail mods unless they have already been approved by the investors. When I asked Chase about this I was told that it does not matter how many trial mod payments you make, they still have to go back to the investors for final approval and they can still deny the final mod for basically any reason they want. When I asked about how this relates to the MHA guidelines I was told it does not matter!!! The moral of this story is that the loan mod is not final until all the paperwork is signed , returned, etc.... I have gotten my hopes up so many times during this process only to have them crushed with these types of responses by Chase. I'll believe it when we actually see the final paperwork.

[litehouse01]

I totally agree I feel like I am getting nowhere with this ...And fannie owns my loan...it really doesn't matter what a nightmare!!!!!!!!!

[snapple candy]

Thanks learning,
Glad I can be an inspiration. I have another single mom that has been my inspiration and what has kept me fighting. I was totally shocked when I got the offer for the student loan discharge as I had fired my attorney and was representing myself at that point. It helped that I contacted that attorney who does the on-line BK business. He was the one who said I did qualify under the hardship and pointed me to the right language. I dont have my final loan mod yet and I may still very well lose my home. I wont like it but I will accept it knowing I gave it my best shot. I have lost home before in divorce and have had to learn to let go of them. Having had that experience a few times, It helps me the next time around. The first loss was the worst but also a relief of a burden at the same time.
Yah know, i did alot of deferments because I was taking care of children for many years. It just kept building and building to a god awful amount that was unmanagble and unrealistic to ever address.During the time of my marriage, my husband refused to make payments even though I was taking care of three little ones at the time.

Be careful of those deferments and forebearances as there are differences between them and whether interest accrues and then capitalizes. If you havent consolidated,be careful on who you choose to do that too (William D Ford is the best for that). Also for the future, there is the ICR plan. the The Income Contingent Repayment plan. The payment is set according to income and you have to update your income figures yearly. If after 25 years, you income is low throughout, the balance is discharged. Hope that helps.

I think it a good sign Chase is asking for updated financials. I would think they are gonna offer you permanent mod. I have not heard one peep from Chase on mine.

[snapple candy]

SBBluewater,
I liken the whole perm mod thing to closing on a house. My ex used to be a real estate broker and you didnt know it was really a done deal until the commission check was in your hand at time of closing. Or as they say "until the fat lady sings." hehehe

litehouse, mine fannie mae too. You should be able to use the guidelines to support your position. Have you tried contacting fannie mae directly? I have heard of a few that have had good luck with that. I made my last trial payment Aug 15th and no word from Chase yet.

[franklyspeaking]

Not sure who this applies to but anyone dealing with a modification /trial payment out of the ohio office they are "shut down" till October 1st for reorganizing. Rep from Chase said they understand the issues going on with the processes and are "reconstructing" the office setup/process to get caught up and get everyone next to each other who needs to be next to each other, in other words putting the right hand next to the left so they can "talk". Seems to be a good thing but if your waiting on paperwork hurry up and wait!

[snapple candy]

learning patience,
Here is that link to discharging student loans: Student Loans: Discharge in Bankruptcy for Undue Hardship
follow the links to the precident case called the "Brunner". This is what the courts follow when considering full or partial discharge of student loans.

[litehouse01]

Franklyspeaking....would that be the Vision Drive Offices in Ohio? Seems to be where alot of Mailings come from

[snapple candy]

OK, well I got a phone call from Chase today on my HELOC that has been in trial also. They wanted to know what was the status of my HAMP trial mod and had it become permanent. I said your guess is as good as mine since I made the last payment Aug 15 and heard nothing since a cryptic letter saying I maybe should make additional trial payments.He agreed the letter was not clear after I read it to him. Something about a "gray area". Yeah, do yah think?
Well, I had a rather lengthy discussion about pro and con to making additional trial payment. He brought up that if I dont make the 4th trial payment (even though the contract says otherwise) that I, as well as Chase will be ineligible for the incentive payments. He encouraged me to make the payment or he feels I will be rejected from perm mod. if I do not. I still have mixed feelings about this. I have till the end of the month to decide if I will make one. I dont want to shoot myself in the foot on this one. I went round and round with him on the issue, even though fannie mae guidelines are clear. He claims rules changing all the time, they cant keep up.
I suppose the bottom line comes down to making a payment in "good faith" in hopes of receiving a perm HAMP modification. This is a hard one to swallow.I do think this guy a little more straight forward than most I have dealt with.

[pbharris4]

Snapple....if the rules are changing all the time..then how does he know what they are right now? I know..that 4th payment. IMO, it's do or die time. I think they already know by the time you make your 3rd payment whether or not they will modify you. My trial mod. is on HAMP paperwork. Still waiting to hear back from lawyer about it. I think the home values are slightly rising. Every part of me wants to NOT make that 4th payment. I read on these boards yesterday a guy went thru TWO trial mods. He decided to not make the 4th and wait it out. Last payment was June 1st. JUST got a letter and also someone came out to make sure someone was living there. Can't remember the rest..I'll look for it & post.

Also..there was another guy who toyed making the 4th payment. He did and 3 weeks later...DENIED. Says he knew it. He had a feeling they'd deny him after the 4th payment.

[andreac]

I am curious on this one too. my third payment was for august 1st. i DID get a SIGNED contract back. it was the last document that you were supposed to sign in the initial packet. it came back with a real signiture to the left of mine. i decided to wait on not make another payment until i was officially contacted. i did get that general extension letter a few days ago via fedex asking to resumbit missing documents. i called, got the run around, got dropped, recalled and circled back to the first dept--then the guy looked through all my papers and said to disregard the fedex and i was fine. he did say to keep making payments---so i did a fourth over the phone. i don't want to get the boot after all this bs since january. has anyone got this far with chase and then gotten a final modification? has anyone gotten this far and gotten denied? am i in the clear at this point or are they going to drop me? love any info. thanks!

[snapple candy]

andreac,
yes people have been denied from perm mods who were on HAMP program and that is why I am concerned about making a 4th payment.
pb, yeah the guy doesnt know what the rules are. I quoted fannie mae guidelines that state they are supposed to inform the borrower within 5 days of the end of trial period if they are to extend the trial payments. He didnt have much to say other than he felt strongly I should make it because I am expected to keep up they payments on my mortgage in general. When I told him I knew of people getting denied, all he could say is that they probably then didnt qualify in the first place. He assured me I wouldnt have been approved for HAMP trial in the first place. yeah, Yeah. I know the routine. Every part of me does not want to make that 4th payment either. The only way I can justify it, is that is my lowered payment is not much more than a rent payment so why not pay it. I went a whole year without making a mortgage payment, so what the heck. I suppose it is a leap of faith even against all odds. ooopps here I am gambling again........it really is do or die. If somehow I am majically able to hold on and achieve it, if I dont make the payment, I would lose out on the incentive payment. That part at least makes sense. It doesnt change the fact that the banks arent really following all the rules or guidelines.

[davephx]

In theory... they are suppose to run the FMV test from all that info you probably gave them when you first qualified. As my person said months ago... if I make the trial payments and complete all the paperwork they send (but never have) it is almost a done deal and final approval should not be a problem.

But as well all know in reality this is just not the case.