WaMu/Chase Mod Moving Forward

[Marie T]

Not really ....counselor said I was about $2,000 short monthly but that was with all my cc payments on it which I have now....drum roll.......stopped paying!!! He did not know if they went by my credit report or what I wrote out on form but I did tell him I was going to stop paying the cc's. (one of them is a Chase card and one was a WAMU card that is now Chase so ....I am sure they will not like that!! but the HUGE one is not Chase or WAMU).

I need to go over it but I think that is around $1,200 of cc's that I have stopped paying and I gained about $150 from cutting insurance and I will probably redo it to only spending $400 on groceries (and I will squeeze it down to that), I hope to reduce car payment by $100 and I am going to talk to orthodontist's bookkeeper and maybe get them to temporarily reduce from $100 to $50 and extend payment time - they have already received $9,000 from us and insurance over last 4 years - are they going to reposess kid's braces??? I know ...not much...but if I can get a lot of $50 reductions it adds up!

Also, we pay out child support and I know when you are getting it and use it to help qualify for a mortgage, you can only use child support if you are going to get it for at least 3 more years and we only have to pay it out for 10 more months so I am hoping I can argue that - at least for the long term.

So...with all of the above...that would come to about $2,000 I think ...pretty tight!!

I just saw the movie - $1 Redbox - "Confessions of a Shopaholic" where she is hounded and stalked by a CC debt collector but I am pretty sure that some of the stuff he was doing is illegal. I think as long as you take their calls they cannot resort to calling your boss or neighbors and if they are using illegal debt collection methods, you can report them and they will be fined. I guess I had better start researching it as they will be calling me soon!!

I could probably "rent out a room" if it came to that. It also makes sense that they would want to see it on your bank statements.....complicated! That is why we have this forum ...to get this stuff figured out!

[cliffdweller]

to be honest...we will NOT rent the room, but it will look like it...I'm anonymous, right??!! That is a card we will play only as a last resort. I am self employed, and my work is sporadic right now. When it comes time for a permanent mod, they will want the last couple months bank statements, so I am making sure NOW that they look pretty good. I've never gotten a definitive answer on the income/debt ratio that Wamu is looking for for the loans they own....the budget I submitted was padded a little on the expense-side, so that is good...but like everyone, I'm clueless what is really going to happen in 3 months.

[Marie T]

Yes ...I knew that ...that you were not really renting a room ...me neither. And you are anonymous - me too. If you only knew how many people used to get bridge loans when they had not yet sold their current home but wanted to close on their new home so they would provide "documentation" that current home was rented to cover payment. Documentation had to be copies of rent check and showing it went in bank account.

I am also self-employed and it is feast or famine. I have some good things I am working on but will take time. I cannot get anything definitive either as to what ratios WAMU/Chase wants to see, they own my loan too but I have no idea if that works for or against me. When I was looking for a company to do this for me, one person I spoke to told me that since WAMU did everything in-house on my loan - no checks and balances, they were more responsible for the predatory loan?? It would be really helpful if anyone knows how WAMU/Chase figures all your other expenses and/or ratios????

Snap1 has a thread (I think called WAMU Jumbo Mod or something like that) and he is saying that they are using some kind of calculator to figure 40% of your gross income for house expense ~ mortgage payment-insurance-interest-property taxes-HOA. He also said that for his type of mod, they are telling him that he can't have 20% or more equity. I know unless they send someone to look at the inside of my house, if they do a driveby, it will most likely come up that I have about 20 to 25% equity so I am very concerned about that.

I have found an attorney group locally that looks good and they have an arm that specializes in loan modifications and predatory lending so I am planning to talk to them as soon as I can. I was extremely bummed with NACA telling me I am in line but I am not a priority as I do not have a foreclosure date yet!

[cliffdweller]

Good luck with the attorney group.

On the CC issue. I stopped paying mine last July because I was originally going to go the Debt Settlement route. I did, in fact, Settle a BofA account that was $50K for $14,400, and I paid the debt settlement people $2500 commission. Could have done it on my own, but wasn't confident at the time. Like so many of us, I never had a late payment or anything on my record. Anyway, then I couldn't pay both my mortgage and the debt settlement payments for the rest of the CCs, so I just stopped paying. The calls have been consistent...3 or 4 per day...some worse than others, but they have never done anything really sleezy, except Advanta, who called my mother!! That ticked me off. I called the woman and screamed, "NOTHING GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO CALL MY MOTHER AT A NUMBER THAT HAS NEVER BEEN GIVEN TO YOU...GOT IT?!!!!! I hung up an td it never happened again. I just recently got an arbitration agreement from Chase for one of the CCs that I have 25 days left to respond to. So It took a year before any action was taken. I am going to do everything to stall off bk as long as possible.

[Marie T]

Cliff ~ Thanks for the info. From my research, I plan to do the debt settlement but not pay a company to do it. It was really hard to come to that decision and now I wish we would have done it a long time ago. We owe B of A about $40K so if they would settle for about $10 or $12 K that would be great. I know if you hang tough you may be able to settle for 10%. I think I will look at it more like they have made a huge amount of money off of us in interest all these years - because I still feel crummy about it and will really feel bad when our credit is totally ruined! I have to keep saying "this is temporary" and not what defines who we are!

As far as the cc collectors calling 3 or 4 times a day, from my research I read that you should not ignore them, but do not talk to them every time they call or you spend your life on the phone. Always be polite, state the facts but do not put up with rudeness.

How in the heck did they get your mother's phone number? My mom lives in another state and has no idea that we are in financial trouble - I would never want to worry her as I'm sure you did not either. It was bad enough for her when I was really sick and my husband had to call her because he though it would be worse if I died without her being somewhat prepared for it.

The tough thing will be saving up the money so we can settle because of course we need it for the mortgage and the property taxes are due at very latest in September. Last year, I paid them the day after they advertised it for tax sale and I am so angry because they still owe me the difference between what I had it reduced to and what I paid - about $3,000 - for 2005. They finally refunded me the difference for 2006, would not "apply it" to last year's taxes and I did not get it until almost two months after I paid last year's taxes although they did pay interest!

Snapple ~ I have two cc's that are Chase/Wamu too - not sure how that is going to pan out - you know they will see it on credit report. All WAMU/Chase together maybe another $25K.

I called today to try to modify car payment with credit union - this will be worse than home loan mod!! They want everything that you need for home loan mod plus they told me they really look at your checking account and they do not want to see any "eating out" (they won't) or that you have $200 cable/cell phone bills (that may be a problem but I'm working on it). They also said they will look at credit report which will now be a huge problem. We're thinking of trading the car in on a really cheap lease for half the payment before my husband's credit gets hit with the late cc payments. I know we can't sell it for payoff and of course they will let us turn it in, sell it for "whatever" at auction and come after us for the difference.

No good answer here. My husband had to be on the car call because it is only in his name and he said this is rediculous ...why do you have to do all this....if he only knew everything I have already done for home loan mod!!! I only give him the highlights!

[pbharris4]

Grrr....again!! Chase is saying...again..that they need MY 2008 Tax Return. I filed jointly as we do every year. I have an in home day care (if you can call it that). I watch one boy after school. I am not licensed and I do not need to be UNLESS I watch 5 or more kids, which I do not. I do claim the income, I do pay self employment tax and I do fill out the Schedule C and all the correct paperwork. My Dh has faxed all the paperwork they asked for, but they still keep saying they do not have Pamela's tax return yet. What? They are signed, we've sent the correct sheets twice. What the heck? I am confused. I am not required to file a separate return! The Irs for the past 4 years have accepted our returns with no problem at all. What on Earth should I tell these people at Chase? My DH told them the same thing. We're faxing it..yet again Monday, but I don't even think THEY know what they are talking about! We do have a negotiator..does that mean we are closer to getting the mod.?

[Marie T]

Hi Pamela,

Do you have any way to scan and email your copies? So much better than faxing as fax pages sometimes do not go through or whatever. I think if you can scan it and send by email, you have proof that it was sent and more importantly that they received it on their end.

Even when you fax, it is turning into an eFax at their end (With Chase/Wamu) but if you can email it from your end thay can't lie and say they did not get it.

Not to alarm you but I was told I had been assigned a negotiator then I got what appeared to be a computer-generated letter from them I think 2 weeks later (dated three days before the negotiator was assigned) saying that I did not qualify for mod due to "insufficient income". I do not understand when they mail you something how it can take two weeks or, when I was originally just trying to get the mod package sent from WAMU, it took almost a month from the date they said it was mailed!

I am appealing it and trying (as I have been writing here) to cut back expenses. I really wish I knew the "magic number" that would make this work.

I am finding that doing all of this is like working another job and I am already so tired - I do not know how Snapple has been doing it over a year!

[cliffdweller]

Hi PB,

Did you include a Profit and Loss Statement for your business? Could that be what they want? I included a 6 month P&L and on it, I estimated the amount of self employment tax I would pay. That is all I can figure. I think that you have been assigned a negotiator is a good sign, especially if your debt to income ratio is decent..I'm sorry I forget if you already said what it is.

Marie - I spoke to the CC companies a few times in the beginning, but found it
upset me too much, so I stopped. My only hope to pay them anything is if WaMu will forgive some of my 2nd, allowing me to free up some $$ to reach a settlement with them, but that is Highly unlikely, soooo...or I suppose we could hit the lotto...I do think telling them that you are working out a restructure with the mortgage company and you will know more in 3-6 months could buy you some time, and stop some calls, maybe. They seem to have me on automatic dial.

[cliffdweller]

PB,
I guess the other option is a stall tactic to see if you claim BK, then i think they will decline you.

[Marie T]

I think my best option if WAMU/Chase will not give me a mod based on that I have reduced outgoing expenses as much as I can, then I will have no choice but to go the legal route and I think they will lose.

I would rather do a win-win even though I might win more going the legal route it will get really ugly because once I decide to do that I will be out for blood! I have been in litigation before and have won so I know what I am getting into but really prefer not to go that route.

As far as the cc's, I need to check all the law on what bill collectors can legally do and just be prepared.

[cliffdweller]

Marie,
You go girl. I haven't considered the predatory lending deal..could be a possibility if we get declined though. It was one of those negative am loans originally.

Yea, good to check the laws.

Happy 4th EVERYBODY!!
...trying to forget this all for a few days...

[pbharris4]

DH called today and the guy first said they needed the P & L, then the Schedule C, then I guess he read the notes and said Oh they had them and they were put into the imaging system on the 26th of June. Then it would be 2 weeks for a processor to look at it and then they will give it to a negotiator. Last week we were told we already had a negotiator. I mean, really? How hard could all this stuff be?

We will fend off BK as long as possible. They are aware that we will be filing BK...I don't know why they are stalling? We are now 2 payments behind.

[Marie T]

Hi PB -

Same as us - 2 payments behind and we will go BK as last resort too. I have managed to reduce all expenses (other than house) by almost $2,000 per month (not paying credit cards other than 2 I HAVE to so I can saty in business! so I will be talking to WAMU/Chase - if they turn me down when I am that close.... we will see.

Guess I have to fall back on ...let's see...in what order...BK....NACA...predatory lending lawsuit...also ....try to increase income!

[pbharris4]

They finally said they have all the paperwork (we'll see how long that lasts) and said we had a negotiator (again) but gave us a name this time. What does this mean? They said it would be a few more weeks until we know something.

I've been away from the computer for a few days..needed to stop thinking about all this for a few days. How is everyone doing? Heard anything?

[Marie T]

Hi PB,(also Snapple, Cliffdweller and Jillian)

I actually just started another thread yesterday - should I get rid of CHASE counselor?..... as I am really trying to figure out what to do on that one. I ended up with a large commission last week on a deal that finally closed after working on it for over a year so that coupled with reducing my expenses I am hoping I am actually about $300 monthly above what I need to be to not have CHASE deny me due to "insufficient income". It will depend on whether they look at what I am writing out as my expenses or what they see on credit report since I made the decision not to pay credit cards.

I do get that they do not want to modify you if it looks like you will ultimately not be able to pay the payments.

I just cannot figure out out if I should stay working with this counselor and maybe I just need to call him tomorrow and flat out ask him if I start this all over again with him, will he give me the name of the negotiator once I am assigned one? I do not buy that he doesn't know who the negotiator is!! I truly think CHASE has set this "counselor system" up to act as a filter so you cannot get to the negoiator and save them time.

The one thing that is so great about him is that he is local, I can meet with him almost anytime and he is very available - I call and he answers or calls me back for sure.

So it is Sunday but I am off to work here....no rest for me if I have any hope of keeping this darn house!! I am trying to keep everything running as normal as possible for the kids sake but really tough!! My doctor prescribed sleeping pills so after weeks of not sleeping, I have slept the last 3 nights so feel like a new person. Hard enough to deal with all this let alone when you are a zombie!!

I hope you are all having a great Sunday and I agree 100% with PB, you need to get away from this, my problem is that no matter what I am doing or where I am, this is what I am thinking about!

[cliffdweller]

PB ~ no news on my front, except that once I called WaMu/Chase to inquire whether bankruptcy would affect my loan mod, Chase appears to be rushing to judgment on my outstanding CC debt. I think I made a bad move.

Marie ~ congratulations on closing on your deal!! Talk about coming at a good time! Sounds like Loan Counselor is good as a sounding board..not much else. Tough to find people who have leverage here. My brother says to write letters with a cc to my Senator, since there seems to be pressure from the Govt to help homeowners. I will probably give it a try if a permanent mod fails.

[pbharris4]

I don't know CD..I have over 100K in cc debt..they know we will be filing..haven't paid cc since Nov. 08. It wasn't until we stopped paying the mortgage that they started to really look after our loan mod. Our credit report says it all.

[cliffdweller]

Not sure who this is directed to.......

Every time I put myself in the "Bank Shoes", I understand everything that they are doing...stalling, changing rules, not giving out names of negotiators, etc...the trouble is that I don't believe that any of these things are going to get them the results that they want. They are such money making machines, but the way through this one has got to be through cooperation with the homeowners....like Obama's plan. I resist any Us and Them attitude because I don't think it is the solution. Granted it is easy to feel that they are against us....don't care, etc....actually, there is no relational emotion involved. Can you tell I have been a Counselor for 15 years??! I'm blathering a little this Sunday morning...just really wishing for a different attitude that will move toward resolution. There are those who will say that change of this magnitude can only come through anger and "violence"...I am not a proponent of this....you need to be smart though. Re-vamping the banking industry is not a little deal. I am searching for something constructive I can do...any ideas would be appreciated.

[cliffdweller]

Well I searched and searched, and I finally found a writer that is saying something that makes sense to me about constructive change. Here it is:
Global Warming: Cutting the Mortgage Baby in Half

It requires the Obama administration to step up on the "bully pulpit" to stop some of the injustices that have occurred. I'm afraid the poor guy might get assassinated, but I think this writer makes some very good points.

At least while I wait for the outcome of this Trial Mod, I can place my energy in the direction of constructive change, rather than being screwed....I feel better already!

[pbharris4]

An Update: we got the call today. We have to make the 3 Trial payments and then they said it would be about a month and they'll review again for a perm. modification. It's been quite the day.Phew. DH spoke to 4-5 different people and all told him diferrent things. It started with the negotiator assigned to our case. She called & Dh was right in the middle of something and asked if she could call back in 10 mins. Well, she didn't so we paniced and called everyone else.

We were told we got the Trial Mod. and we need to make the payment on Aug. 1st. yes..in 2 days. Payment is $2155.47. Payment used to be $2500 but that was interest only and when eventually would have gone up to $2800-2900. We had to call back because there was NO WAY we could pay that on 2 days notice. So the customer rep. set on auto withdrawls for the 7th and then the 1st of Sept and Oct.

Well, when the negotiator called us..she said that was all wrong, she didn't know why the lady did that and cancelled it. She said it had to be certified funds and we'd need to send the paperwork back with it. The other lady also told us that if we were to file BK that even AFTER we signed a permanant mod. that we'd be kicked out of it. WRONG AGAIN and I knew it.

The negotiator says once we perm. modify we can file and we wouldn't be kicked out because it's already done.

I am a little leery though. I don't want to send them $6300 over the next 3 months and they tell me we can have the final perm. mod.! We are waiting to file BK until this is made permanent. I am surprised DH has not been garnished from the bottom feeders yet. We haven't gotten the paperwork yet. The negotiator said we'd get it mid week next week (in which we will be gone until the 9th) and she said we can look it over when we get back.

I really need at least a PT job for this to work. i've been looking and not being hired, but I must try harder. Half of me though is like...why do this for something that's $100k under water?

[cliffdweller]

Hi PB,
Nice to hear from you! Well...I'm happy for you, though I know it is a gamble...one that we are all in together. There is strength in numbers I think. It is nice to have SOMETHING happen, at least I felt a whole lot better at that point. Garnishments take a while...you haven't received a judgement against you, right?

At least you will have a couple of months to watch what happens to others who have been waiting 60-90 days now for a permanent mod after their trial. Something has got to happen pretty soon. My third trial payment is August 30. I need a step program - 2%, 3%, 5% for the life....no clue if it will happen.

Good luck on the job!

CW

[snapple candy]

PB, I am with ya on why do all this for a house that is 100K underwater. I ask myself this everyday. I will make my 3rd trial mos payment this coming month and still wait and see on all this. WE are all on the dark on this cliff and no fun living on the edge. I saw earlier this week some committees getting together is DC to discuss why MHA program not working better, etc. I dont hold much hope out that we will see anything substantial occur.

[Marie T]

Congrats PB...I guess their thing is to do the trial mods ...no way to get around that. My husband said that is rediculous because we had been making the regular payment all this time after I lost my job that actually qualified me for this mortgage. We did not fall behind until March when we had the "perfect storm" of several bad financial events happen all at once.

We have been scrimping and going without ever since I lost that job in order to pay for this darn house so we are obviuosly motivated to keep the house. I think if we do get he mod, we will be then scrimping to do all the repair work that needs done! Live is so short and I think I realized that when I was so sick this year and it was a possibility that I wouldn't make it. I really hope it is worth all the sacrifices we are all making to keep our houses.

[cliffdweller]

"WE are all on the dark on this cliff and no fun living on the edge."

Snapple - I started this thread with the line - this forum feels like a light in the darkness....because that darkness thing is the worst part for me and most of us I suspect....the Sagittarius in me can accept almost anything if the cards are on the table.

We all say "the banks" this and that. I really want to know WHO "the banks" are. There seems to be some uniting force because they are
all following in sync...just reminds me of this Michael Douglas movie I saw
where these judges met in secret and knocked off criminals that were aquitted in court....doesn't it feel like there is some secret group, or am I
being paranoid?

[cliffdweller]

Reading the papers and searching around for new info. Sounds like September 1 is the magic day to begin making permanent mods. They have almost put their "systems" in place according to what I have read. Sounds like a new debt/income qualification calculation is in the works...and like they may want several (3 or more) bank statements.

That's all I got for now.