WaMu/Chase Mod Moving Forward

[pbharris4]

My husband told them several times that we are close to filing bk and that we are going to have to include the house if they don't get it done soon. It was in our first hardship letter and this new affidavit DH just faxed this a.m. Every time he calls he lets them know about us needing to file. I guess it depends on the wording on each person's contract. We haven't gotten one yet (except that HELOC mod. which we didn't do anything about). Beyond telling them many times and if they've pulled our credit they have to know we have to file. The loan is in DH's name so I can't call, but I'll have him call.

[snapple candy]

PB,
This is the language in the cover letter from Chase for the trial mod program (AND IT IS IN ALL UPPER CASE):

BANKRUPTCY. If you are currently subject to the protections of any automatic stay in bankruptcy, or have obtained a discharge in a bankruptcy proceeding, nothing in the trial period plan, any final modification agreement, or any other document executed in connection with this offer shall be construed as an attempt by us to impose personal liability for the loan.

You know, Chase may have a policy in place about how they will handle modifications if a person files for BK. You might want to try and get to the BK department within Chase (good luck) and ask them. At least with WAMU side, the BK dept and Loss Mitigation in same building. The issue is them talking to you while you are under protection of the automatic stay. I hope you have a sharp BK attorney. Good luck.

[pbharris4]

I could be wrong, but I interpret that to mean that they are not trying to get money from you. It's illegal for them to try and bill you, contact you, modify, etc while you are in a BK. We have not filed and are not filing until we hear about the mod. It just says that they are not "attempting to collect" when you are already under a stay or discharge.

Edited to add: We are not currently filing..probably a few months yet.

[Marie T]

I am just curious - are all of you still paying your credit card payments? It has occurred to me that I am being nuts to keep paying the credit cards when I am two payments behind on my mortgage! I think I need to let everything else go and just worry about the house at this point - that is just tough when I have never been late or missed payments before but with two late WAMU payments, my credit is ruined for awhile anyway.

We are also looking into bankruptcy but would really prefer not to do that as I have just started a commission only position and I do feel that my income will be good if given some time, just not sure WAMU/Chase will give me the time to get up and running. It seems I am now getting a "warning" letter twice a week from them, warning that if I do not make my payments I will lose my home and giving info to do a loan modification. I do not think that these people have anything together at all - they should have some kind of system to show that I have been working on getting a modification for two months!

Does anyone have any idea how long the NACA process takes?

[pbharris4]

Marie....We stopped paying ours in November 2008. I was always told that it's better to let your unsecured debts go before your secured debts as you need a roof over your head. I am finding more and more that people who could pay everything on time, but had a lot of credit debts were being told by the credit card co.s that their payment is going up from 125/mo to $580/mo. not because they are late, but because they are raising the rates and because they say they are "losing" money on them. Most people can't afford that jump in payments.

The banks are not your friend right now. Congratulations on your new job. Commission sales is going to be tough right now. Not saying you can't make a go of it, I really hope you do ) WAMU will not give you the time. They don't care really. IMO, I'd let the cards go and pay your house. But that's just me...anyone else?

[snapple candy]

Marie....When I went thru credit counseling, they dont even put your unsecured debt on the budget plan so pb is correct. I was advised by attorney to stop making payments on unsecured debt since I was going to file BK. I also advised to not use them for 6mth prior to filing. Making the decision to file BK is a serious decision that should be discussed with several bk attorneys. They all have their different slant on it as well as approach.It is good to interveiw a few to see whom fits with you and not get led down the wrong path. In my personal opinion, (having gone thru bk a couple times in my life), your unsecured debt amount should be considered. If it is so high, you cant see the light at the end of the tunnel to get out of the hole on top of mortgage issues, it may be time to do it. Just make sure it is educated decision...just my 2 cents.
i stopped paying my cc card a few months ago. I asked for a forbearance for one month(reduction in hours last month) and they refused.They already had closed it when they discovered I went thru BK. Frankly, they took away any incentive. I am trying to operate in good faith and they are not. I heard on another thread that how the credit counseling people do when they negotiate the reduced payments, what they do is collect reduced payments from you for 6mths, dont make any of those payments to the lender, then offer the cc company 20%, charge you 40% (your collected payments) and then pocket the 20% difference. A few on the list are just not paying for 4-6mths and plan to offer the 20-40% range at the end. Thats what I am attempting to do. It was suggested to put that 40% away every month so you have somehting to negotiate with. I am not so sure I can accomplish that but will try.

You could ask your cc companies for a forbearance or reduced interest. B of A offered to cut my interest rate in half immediately but keep the payment the same per month. I needed a lower payment so I told them to bite me.

[pbharris4]

We have just over $100k in cc debt (15 yrs in the brewing) and although the cc cos. offered for us to settle at 70% or 50% there was no way we had any $$ to do it. The bk attny said anytime you are a certain amount in cc debt you pretty much have to file.

It does suck not to pay. Although we had a lot of debt we always paid it and on time every month. Never had any late payments ever. (Well, I did about 20 yrs ago for some small medicals bills...but that was for a few months). Dh never had a late payment, but when you look at the whole picture...there is probably no way in our lifetime we would have paid that off UNLESS..the housing market was good and we had equity, sold our house and paid it off. At one point we still had over $125k in equity on our house. I am finding every day I run into someone who is filing BK. Just yesterday I told my neighbor (because I wanted to see if collectors called them) and she told us she was thinking of doing it too. But she didn't want us to say anything to her husband. So I think the more we open up the more others feel comfortable. I know people who were making ALOT of $$$ and have lost jobs or their business tanked.

[Marie T]

Snapple and PB ~ Thanks for your answers and thanks for the congrats PB - I really appreciate it! I have been a 100% commission sales my whole life so good with that but now I'm in a new industry, crummy economy so I know it will be tough. It makes so much sense and everyone says it - you keep a roof over your head first! I was sidetracked thinking since my husband is not on the mortgage I feel like I have gotten us into this mess and I have to preserve his credit by keeping the cc's paid. But, we have talked about it and he agrees it is most important to keep the house.

Do any of you have any idea or experience how WAMU/Chase might view me NOT paying the credit cards so I can pay the mortage? or NACA for that matter? How will that affect me trying to get the mod done?

From my research, I wish I would have stopped paying the cc's in January when I knew we were going to be in trouble because my DH's income was cut by 30% and I had surgery at the end of the year, then more complications on top of that so I was rehospitalized in March so ......so far 2009 has been the crummiest year ever!

What I have been reading about not paying the cc's is very similar to what Snapple is saying the "credit counseling" companies do except that I have read if you can really wait them out that they have a legal time limit when they are required to write it off and when they do that you offer them 10 percent (you have this presumedly because you have been saving up at least part of the payment you would have been paying them).

They can get a judgment and can take you to court but even with a judgment I think you can still settle at that point. We have one cc that is almost 40 thousand and one that is 23 thousand. I had called and asked to not pay the payment on the big one this month - since I had to come up with the WAMU payment - and after 25 years with that cc company with no lates they refused to let me skip a month! Our interest rates were good but I did notice they just raised the big one from 7.99 to 14.99, now that it is 10 days late - how crazy is that when people can't pay what they have so they raise the interest rate. I was so angry with them I used it to fill the car with gas after not using it for months so that was dumb but then when I tried to use it to pay my ambulance bill, they denied it! Actually still had a few thousand of available credit so now we could really be in trouble.

One more question - have you had any success with getting secured payments/interest lowered? We had talked to the bank a few months ago that has our one car loan and they would not give us a reduced interest rate that would have lowered our car payment by $100/month because they said "we had too much debt". I really do not want to lose the car since we need two cars to work - mine is older but paid off - but how do you negotiate the loan if it is secured by the car? It is probably worth almost the payoff.

And we have talked to a bankruptcy attorney - we think he was really pushing us to do that while I still would like to avoid it if at all possible.

[pbharris4]

Originally Posted by Marie T

Do any of you have any idea or experience how WAMU/Chase might view me NOT paying the credit cards so I can pay the mortage? or NACA for that matter? How will that affect me trying to get the mod done?

From my research, I wish I would have stopped paying the cc's in January when I knew we were going to be in trouble because my DH's income was cut by 30% and I had surgery at the end of the year, then more complications on top of that so I was rehospitalized in March so ......so far 2009 has been the crummiest year ever!

What I have been reading about not paying the cc's is very similar to what Snapple is saying the "credit counseling" companies do except that I have read if you can really wait them out that they have a legal time limit when they are required to write it off and when they do that you offer them 10 percent (you have this presumedly because you have been saving up at least part of the payment you would have been paying them).

They can get a judgment and can take you to court but even with a judgment I think you can still settle at that point. We have one cc that is almost 40 thousand and one that is 23 thousand. I had called and asked to not pay the payment on the big one this month - since I had to come up with the WAMU payment - and after 25 years with that cc company with no lates they refused to let me skip a month! Our interest rates were good but I did notice they just raised the big one from 7.99 to 14.99, now that it is 10 days late - how crazy is that when people can't pay what they have so they raise the interest rate. I was so angry with them I used it to fill the car with gas after not using it for months so that was dumb but then when I tried to use it to pay my ambulance bill, they denied it! Actually still had a few thousand of available credit so now we could really be in trouble.

One more question - have you had any success with getting secured payments/interest lowered? We had talked to the bank a few months ago that has our one car loan and they would not give us a reduced interest rate that would have lowered our car payment by $100/month because they said "we had too much debt". I really do not want to lose the car since we need two cars to work - mine is older but paid off - but how do you negotiate the loan if it is secured by the car? It is probably worth almost the payoff.

And we have talked to a bankruptcy attorney - we think he was really pushing us to do that while I still would like to avoid it if at all possible.

The cc companies will vary, but the majority will "charge off" as a bad debt after 6-9 months. I think if the balances are high then they will sell some to a JDB (Junk Debt Buyer) aka "bottom feeders" who are the real nasty people who will call, work, your neighbors, your brother-in-law, etc. to try and get you to pay. Personally, the banks just want their money. Everyone is having problems. They are raising rates and raising minimum payments and lowering limits. No one can say what WAMU will do for you. They may think you can afford more since you are still paying your cards??? Maybe they think we can't pay anything because we haven't paid our cards for 8 months or so? I can't help you with NACA we haven't gone that route.

[snapple candy]

Marie,
What WAMU will do is a real big question but in general...as much as I hate to say it, if you do BK, it is much less complicated. If you discharge all that cc debt in BK, you actually be looked upon as a better risk if that makes sense. i would not worry about WAMU in the long run. I can tell you from experience, that there is nothing more cleansing that clearing the deck with BK. If it is needed it can change your life. I dont support be a looser or not paying your debt but there are times when the situation warrants such action. Dont look back and dont feel guilty about it. It exists for a reason and the relief it can bring to your life can not be described. Seek the advice of more than one BK attorney and find the right fit.
As I said, my cc company right off the bat offered me a 50% reduction of interest rate but the same monthly payment. Basically offered me a fixed rate loan almost like a car payment for 5 years. Would not even give me a 1mth forbearance. I told them to take a hike. All I can say, is give them the car back. Or be ready too. Its all about playing hard ball as far as I can see. Hold you ground and dont let them see you sweat.
I am fighting wioth the friking hospital over an emergency room bill. With them and er doc bill it amounts to $650 for what amounts to an office visit with a physicians assistant who wrote me a scrip. They want to argue with me over my child support being income and that I only meet 50% of the pvoerty level. They cant eat my shorts! I am so sicking and tired of fighting with these people, I almost dont care anymore. Cant get blood out of a turnip. Bring it on. I know every trick in the book these guys play. Just try to come get me for your bs charges. Sorry, dont have such a good attitude these days.

[snapple candy]

PB,
With over 100K in cc debt.I think it might be time to file BK as the attorney advised. Congrats on you new job. I wish you the best. It may be time to start with a clean slate. It is hard to make this decision but once you do....
Snapple

[pbharris4]

Originally Posted by snapple candy

PB,
With over 100K in cc debt.I think it might be time to file BK as the attorney advised. Congrats on you new job. I wish you the best. It may be time to start with a clean slate. It is hard to make this decision but once you do....
Snapple

Snapple,

I think Marie is the one who got a job. I was offered one, but after speaking with the attny...he said we could go either way (CH7 or 13) and a PT job wouldn't affect the ability to do CH7, but a FT job would. They wanted it to be FT so it didn't work out. Crazy for me to turn it down...crazy! But we should know within 45 days about the mod. (so WAMU says) and once we know what the offer is and whether we accept, then we file. All is ready to go...there's no decision to file it WILL happen. It's just a wait & see whether we do a CH 7 or CH 13.

I think you may be confusing me with Marie?

[snapple candy]

Yes, PB I was confusing your situations...it was late when I posted that and not 100% there in my mental functions. Sounds like you are getting your ducks in a row and ready to jump to plan A, B or C as things happens. You are well prepared. BK is crazy isnt it? So many little factors that effect it. I only was able to hold onto my house in Chapter 7 (2 yrs ago) because I had no equity (the loss had already started to hit) so at that time it was helpful in my BK...two years later, because of lack of employment, I am not any better off in many ways and actually just worsens because of under-employment. Good luck on your mod. WAMU is a pain to work with.

[cliffdweller]

I've been offline because my stepmom died yesterday...oye vey...will it end??

Ouch!! Got a call from Exec Resolution today: confirmed with the Negotiator that filing BK (even w/out house) will immediately nullify Trial Mod on a Wamu-owned loan, and worse...may prevent permanent mod period. In other words, too much debt may be reason for decline on a Wamu-owned loan??? I think I'm a little sick. Need to confirm all this...know anyone else claiming BK with Wamu-owned loan?

[cliffdweller]

Hold it. Just got a different answer. Should be OK if financials are OK provided BK is AFTER permanent mod...sorry for posting wrong info. Also, got our tax assessment - house went UP by $30K.. Still underwater but not by much...$11K is all...not too comforting.

[snapple candy]

Cliff,
I would suggest you call BK dept at WAMU. You might have to go thru Loss Mitigation to get to them if you want yet another answer. I got a call from broker who did BPO today and he let me know what my house is worth. This is 2nd BPO done and they were within 2K of each other. I am officially underwater 110K.
I had an interesting conversation with him about when an if value begin to go up again, how long till I break even. He said historically for past 50 years (except times of depression/recession) that real estate averages 7% growth per year. We talked about the bottom which is still not hit here and when to start applying 7%. Using his figures, it would be 5-7 years minimum for me to break even. This is not counting my down payment of 75K. Soory to hear about your stepmom cliff.

[cliffdweller]

Ok. I will call BK at WAMU. Thanks.

Your goal is to hang on even if it takes 5-7 years to break even? Will you get lower taxes? With reduced payment and taxes, you probably couldn't do better elsewhere, right?

Side note: My stepmom had a massive brain hemmorage and was in a comma..they gave her a 6 mg. morphine drip until she passed away. No food or water. It was strange...like they killed her, but didn't call it euthanasia. Oh well, she wasn't coming back..probably a blessing.

[snapple candy]

Yes, probably a blessing. Id wanna go that way with morphine. I hear Michale Jackson was injecting demerol and taking other drugs along with it. Too his demise. Sad.

Anyways..I dont know if I would get lowered taxes. Should check into it. Could I do better elsewhere with lowered payment and taxes? Yes, i probably could still go rent a house around here for a few hundred less. I will have to see what the final terms are and crunch the numbers come Sept. My problem is that I cant get decent work here that pays a decent family wage so I need to consider making a move to find better employment opportunities.

[Marie T]

Cliff - sorry about your stepmom, but if it had to happen it sounds like she was allowed to slip away peacefully and most of us would want to go that way.

Snapple - you definitely should check into getting your property taxes lowered - I got mine lowered by $3,000/per year two years ago. It was a battle but worth it. Research on the internet how to do it - that is what I did.

Got letter yesterday from WAMU - officially turned down for mod - reason given as "insufficient income". Wierd thing is that letter just got here and it was dated three days before I was told I had been assigned a negotiator! Also in mail yesterday, yet another WAMU letter telling me I have missed two payments and a loan modification could help me and all the forms enclosed in letter. Are these WAMU people that stupid??? Geez!!! I called my counselor at Chase and said it looks like a computer generated letter that turned me down and no one looked at the hardship letter or circumstances! He said that based on our income and our debt there wasn't any way to do a workable mod. So I said I was going to quit paying the cc's but he doesn't know if they look at the credit report to get what you owe or just what you write out on the form. He also thought our groceries were high at $515/month but that's for 4 people and includes shampoo, detergent, everything. We don't eat out ever anymore and I cook a lot - no conveneince foods - to save money so here I thought I was doing good!

I have already started calling the "have to pay" stuff to get payments modified. I raised deductibles on car and house insurance and reduced from $360 monthly down to $160 - just upset with myself that I didn't do that sooner. Had to really argue with insurance guy to make him do it so that was irritating! I'm working with Credit Union to reduce car payment at least $100 month by lowering interest and adding a year. You can tell them to come and get it but then they can sell it at auction for a fraction of what you owe and come after you for the difference. Plus, my husband and I both need a car for work.

I need to figure out how to reduce cell (I have to have for my work) and cable/phone/internet. I need home fax-phone/internet for my work and they throw in cable tv really cheap with other two so it doesn't make sense to save a tiny bit since tv is about our only entertainment these days.

I called my contact at NACA about being turned down on the loan mod and she said that means nothing to NACA- they are still working on it although since my house isn't going to auction right now, my case is not a priority so that is a bummer. ALso told her I was quitting paying cc's and she said - you mean you're still paying cc's when you can't pay house payment? So, I am an idiot.

Snapple - can the cc debt collectors really talk to your neighbors about your debt? I do not think that is legal!!

I am feeling very dismal right now......

[cliffdweller]

Marie - good job on doing everything you can to lower costs and give it your absolute best shot! One of my friends suggested I rent them the downstairs of my house for $800/mo...we do up a rental agreement....temporary arrangement, if you know what I mean.....

[Jillian118]

Hey Marie,

Call your phone company a lot of times they can do bundled packages for home internet cell and cable for a lot cheaper... Other than that it sounds like you are doing all you can. When I was talking to NACA they thought that $100 a mo for groceries was high...I laughed asking her what state she lived in! Same story there, I told her I do not eat out and pack my lunch, so $100 a week for everything is pretty good I thought!

I really seem to get the feeling that they are just stalling everyone for some reason...I see hardly any success stories in that forum anymore...but gobs and gobs of new posts on this side.

[snapple candy]

Marie,
Thanks for the tip on the tax reductions...I will research that. I just saw this financial show on Clark somebody on cnn or cnbc and he mentioned a cheap cell phone and plan without a contract. For the life of me, I cannot remember the name of it. I should have wrote it down. He recommended no signing up for any 1 or 2 year contracts and that rates are coming down down down so dont lock in...too bad I just did a new 2 yr thing for verizon for the kids.
I do the fax/internet/cable phone thing at home too and I am trying to figure out ways to cut costs also. I think Qwest/Verizon/Direct TV are offering some promotional package right now. Yes, cable all the entertainment we got so it would be hard to cut off with 3 teenagers. We cant afford to do anything else too.
$515 a mth for groceries too high for a family of 4? That is BS? What is the guy using poverty figures or food stamps guidelines ($30 a week per person?) I put $600 down for my groceries for 4 and I think that is conservative...I know I spend more than that. I am making the same calls as you to get modified payments on everything. Sounds like we are on parallel tracks.
Sorry to hear about the WAMU turn down. Glad NACA in your court. I would stop paying the mortgage payment if you really want to push this along.

As for CC debt collectors talking to neighbors...you are right , it is not legal but that doesnt mean they dont resort to illegal actions. There was mention on another thread about if you get a debt collector claiming you owe them money to ask them in writing to prove it...they claimed it stopped the debt collector from harrasing them. I saw a 20/20 show where the collectors were calling employer bosses at home at night. Many of these collectors are low life slimes and arent exactly too sharp or educated. I think I may have mentioned a freind of mine has been going thru hell for almost a year now with this one debt collector whom constantly harassing her in court. Filing bs motions after another...all based on lies and was able to get a judge to garnish her child support! That in itself is illegal and a federal violation. NOw she is going to have to file an appeal. The collector was able to file for a judgement, get it stamped by the judge, all without her ever being served a single legal document.
Anyways..dont mean to go on. Just need to be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. As long as you are educated about the process, you will be better off. Was it? Know thine enemy?
Hang in there Maria. I think these trial mods are just a way to get some money out of us while they are able to figure out new ways to screw us.

[snapple candy]

Ok, my brain starting to access its far reaches. It was "Clark Howard" and it was his financial show on Sunday. He has some pretty darn to earth advice about things.

[Marie T]

Hi Cliff, Snapple and Jillian ~

Thanks for the suggestions! Sometimes I feel like I'm chasing after pennies while dollars slip through my fingers these days!

Yeah ...I already have Comcast bundled internet/cable/phone package and I'm paying about $180/month. Comcast has been offering what I have as a "new customer" package for $100 then guaranteed for 2 years so I might have to jump ship to Qwest. I do not understand why Comcast will not offer customers who have been with them the same package!!! I bailed out of Qwest 4 years ago for same reason!~

We are 8 months into Verizon 2 yr contract but horrible reception at home so no good for my work since I work out of home office but have to have cell for on road anyway. If reception was good, I know there's something you can put on computer to get internet through Verizon and I could do eFax and maybe Direct TV for cheaper. I also feel kids have to have cell to check up on them because I work crazy hours and far away and I like to check right after school (I know I'm neurotic) It is crazy having home phone and cell phone but not sure how to change that. I'm sure if I was techy I could figure it out better but still rotten reception where I live. So between Verizon and Comcast I'm paying out $300/month!!

Groceries - not sure how to cut any more since we have cut already a lot. I see where people use coupons to get $200 of groceries for $20 but not sure how to do that. I think your grocery store needs to do triple coupons for it to work and I have never seen any here do that.

Anyway - this is all so exhausting and I'm wondering after all this if anyone is even getting permanent mods?

Also Cliff, one of the loan modifying companies I initially spoke to told me to say your brother-in-law lives with you and pays rent. I guess that is an option but they might wonder why I haven't brought it up before.

Jillian wrote ......"I really seem to get the feeling that they are just stalling everyone for some reason...I see hardly any success stories in that forum anymore...but gobs and gobs of new posts on this side." .....Jillian, is that forum on LoanSafe or are you talking about a different NACA site or forum?

I just saw the movie, I think it's called "Fun with Dick and Jane", where they both lose their jobs and get a foreclosure notice and start robbing banks to save their house. When I saw it a few years back I thought it was funny ....now I watched it thinking, hmmmmm, maybe I can pick up some pointers here! Weird how one's perspective changes............

[cliffdweller]

At least you are maintaining your sense of humor!
As far as the rental idea, look - if they decline you for lack of $$, then it would
make sense that you would do everything in your power to increase it, including renting out a room. The thing is, you will need to show the $$ on your bank statement...I have that worked out with my friend. Do you know how much $$ you are shooting for to qualify?