WaMu/Chase Mod Moving Forward

[BeingChased]

Has anyone here been rejected for any modification and forced to foreclose?
Has anyone here tried to re-negotiate a modification, perhaps by using a lawyer?

[cliffdweller]

Hi BeingChased,

I asked this question a while back, and the only response was a decline
because they were not late on their mortgage. Don't know answer to second
question....it is a good one.

[snapple candy]

PB,
Interesting what WAMU offered you on your HELOC. WAMU loss mitigation just called me a couple days ago asking me to refax my documents to process HELOC mod request. I am just starting my trial mod and wondering in the end how this will all work out. I am underwater 100K. My 2nd is 30K. How much is yours?

SOunds like you have the same terms as I do. The payment is small in the big scheme of things but I stopped paying a few months ago

I am wondering if WAMU will do a hold out routine on the 2nd if you get a half way decent first loan mod. Use it as leverage to ruin your first mod or force you to take what they offer? I suppose you have to be willing to play hard ball with them and be ready to walk away if they wont write off the balance. I have heard of some lenders taking a small buyout to write it off.

Sure is nice we can compare notes on this.

CW, HELOC is handled as an entirely different file, in a different department even. Fannie Mae retention anaylst told me they first modification cannot be combined with the 2nd. It almost makes no difference it was the same lender. Perhaps if the first wasnt a fannie mae and held exclusively within WAMU, it would be different. In talking to the HELOC person just a moment ago, it appears Chase team, not WAMU people (in transition) are handling my HELOC. WAMU team is handling the first.

[snapple candy]

CW, I like you idea of rejecting reaffirmation...hehe

I was in a modification process and they served me a Notice of Sale so you are not safe from NOD unless you are actually in the trial mod process or a forbearance of some sort.

Being Chased, depends on why they declined your modification. Fannie or freddie backed? How much underwater? Income? All these are factors. If you dont meet certain criteria, you will be rejected so unless you have grounds, I doubt a lawyer can be useful. I had to really push myself to get govt. mod. You need to educate yourself on all the criteria and be able to use the guidelines in how it applies to your case.

[pbharris4]

Originally Posted by snapple candy

PB,
Interesting what WAMU offered you on your HELOC. WAMU loss mitigation just called me a couple days ago asking me to refax my documents to process HELOC mod request. I am just starting my trial mod and wondering in the end how this will all work out. I am underwater 100K. My 2nd is 30K. How much is yours?

SOunds like you have the same terms as I do. The payment is small in the big scheme of things but I stopped paying a few months ago

I am wondering if WAMU will do a hold out routine on the 2nd if you get a half way decent first loan mod. Use it as leverage to ruin your first mod or force you to take what they offer? I suppose you have to be willing to play hard ball with them and be ready to walk away if they wont write off the balance. I have heard of some lenders taking a small buyout to write it off.

Sure is nice we can compare notes on this.

CW, HELOC is handled as an entirely different file, in a different department even. Fannie Mae retention anaylst told me they first modification cannot be combined with the 2nd. It almost makes no difference it was the same lender. Perhaps if the first wasnt a fannie mae and held exclusively within WAMU, it would be different. In talking to the HELOC person just a moment ago, it appears Chase team, not WAMU people (in transition) are handling my HELOC. WAMU team is handling the first.

Are you starting your trial payments on the HELOC or the 1st mortgage? If the first what did they offer you? We are underwater $100k and HELOC is another $44,500. DH has a great job (steady) and I've been looking. We haven't been paying the HELOC for months, but DH just sent in like $200-$300. We missed June's mortgage payment. I am wondering if we got caught up that one payment and then filed CH7..did a ride through including the mortgage and then maybe WAMU/Chase or whatever they want to call themselves or we could walk away without owing anything because we didn't reaffirm it. We FINALLY get to meet with the lawyer.This Tuesday. We've talked to him alot and his paralegal.

Yes it is nice we can compare notes. I believe they are working on my first mortgage modification as well. We resent a few documents that we forgot to sign and DH is going to call today to check the status. It was to go to the underwriters so we'll see.

I am going to have file soon...before DH's wages get garnsihed.

[pbharris4]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Hi PB,
On the Trial Mod Letter, it states that "this agreement can be made null and void if you declare bankruptcy." or something like that... I am not so good at playing hardball, and maybe that really is what is needed here...hate to see them delay your 1st Mod further......put you on the back burner, so to speak, because you did not respond to the HELOC offer. I'm sure you've looked at all the angles...

Mine does not say that.

Here's what mine says:

"If you are currently in an active bankruptcy, or have been discharged from a bankruptcy previously, then this letter and Agreement does not in any way mean that Washington Mutual or anyone acting on their behalf is attempting to hold you personally liable for the loan. This notice is intended to inform you of your rights as they refer to the Washington Mutual's ability to foreclose on your property per the loan documents if the loan is not timely brought current."

[pbharris4]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

PB,
What if you send it back with a big note that says, "Reaffirmation is pending offer of mod on 1st Loan?????"

My DH is going to call the guy on his way home and tell him we can't accept that offer and are waiting to hear about the first modification. In all..I don't really want to reaffirm the house. Only thing I want to reaffirm is our small Disney Timeshare that we pay $60/mo on.

They are taking too long so I want to inlude the house in the BK and try to ride it through, but need to make up that one payment we missed. I have to read up on it more though. And consult the lawyer too.

[cliffdweller]

Hi PB,
Again, I am referring to the 3 month Trial Plan Agreement on our Wamu- owned 1st mortgage:

Here is the language:
You acknowledge that in the event you file a petition in bankruptcy, Washington Mutual may elect to take any and all actions necessary, including, but not limited to voiding this Agreement, filing a Motion for relief from the automatic stay or a Motion to dismiss or any permitted state law remedies, which in Washington Mutual's judgment are reasonably necessary to secure our security, the value of the security and/or to enforce our rights under the original terms of your loan.

What do you guys make of that??

As far as the second, we have soooo many repairs yet needed, believe we can get a reasonable home appraisal in couple years, so a very low fixed interest 2nd could come in handy.

[pbharris4]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Hi PB,
Again, I am referring to the 3 month Trial Plan Agreement on our Wamu- owned 1st mortgage:

Here is the language:
You acknowledge that in the event you file a petition in bankruptcy, Washington Mutual may elect to take any and all actions necessary, including, but not limited to voiding this Agreement, filing a Motion for relief from the automatic stay or a Motion to dismiss or any permitted state law remedies, which in Washington Mutual's judgment are reasonably necessary to secure our security, the value of the security and/or to enforce our rights under the original terms of your loan.

What do you guys make of that??

As far as the second, we have soooo many repairs yet needed, believe we can get a reasonable home appraisal in couple years, so a very low fixed interest 2nd could come in handy.

Ok..sorry..my mind is like toast this week....this is the wording on YOUR 3 month trial mod? Sounds like if your file BK the trial mod and then mod. is null and void. Even if you reaffirm? Or It doesn't matter if you reaffirm? My head is spinning. So that's why I said previously maybe we shouldn't wait for a mod. and try a "ride through." In the event we can't pay and they don't offer a decent mod. we can walk away from it owing nothing if it's included in the bk. (I don't explain things very well.)

[cliffdweller]

Another thought for you is to do nothing with Wamu right now...they gave you a couple of weeks to reply to the 2nd mod offer? Don't show your cards yet...a thought

[pbharris4]

They gave us 7 days to respond.

[cliffdweller]

Oh I see.. I had a talk with a Customer Service Rep today. He referred to the 3 month trial as a forbearance. Basically we will have to send in pay stubs and bills again, and they will decide if we qualify for permanent mod. I think they are being trained to be very limited in what they say and to try to instill a little fear that you may need to come up with all the dough in 3 months or face foreclosure...the guy wasn't a very good actor though, and it did seem scripted.

[snapple candy]

CW,
Did you happen to mention to them previously you might file BK? My trial mod does not contain that kind of language. I suggest you have an attorney review that. Something sounds off. I would want to know my rights.

As for my loan mod papers, it does not mention really Washington Mutual on any of it. Only at the top of cover letter does it refer to WAMU now becoming Chase. All the rest of the language refers to JP Morgan Chase. It was original WAMU loan.

PB, I just started my trial payments for 1st mod.Fed exd it in today. I just started working on HELOC mod a few weeks ago and confirmed they got my re-faxed documents today. We will see where it leads. I am curious to see if they offer me the same terms as you on the HELOC. Are you dealing with Loss Mitigation in Tampa on HELOC? I am kinda glad my first is already in process. It will give me 3 mths to hammer out a deal on HELOC. If neither one works out in the end to agreeable terms, I can tell them to both to take a hike while I take a walk. I really have little tolerance left in me and have grown apathetic after 1 year of being jerked around. There is a part of me that just doesnt care anymore. I dont buy in to their scare tactics...I also filed another complaint against them today, this time with the TARP fraud people.WAMU sent me the loan mod package 3 days before the first payment due date! Better late than never huh?

[cliffdweller]

Hi Snapple,
Yea - I did mention BK (made it clear that house will not be included) because when you look at my credit report, it is
obvious that $$ will need to be discharged through bk. I think that my
trial mod (forbearance) letter is standard for Wamu-owned loans though.

Got a fedex today from an attorney for a Chase CC. I am holding off on bk until after final mod. The letter is an arbitration claim form...gives me 30 days to respond, or an award will be entered against me and may be enforced in court as a civil judgment. Question: Do you know how long these things take? Like after the 30 days, will they rush to judgment?

[snapple candy]

CW, sounds like they are taking it to arbitration which may not be in your favor if you want to stall. My own personal experience with arbitration is it is fixed and if they are motivated will file for judgment ASAP. Here are some thoughts: 1. Tell them you want to attend the arbitration hearing by phone (You should have a right to do this) and to give you a date for the hearing. Then keep delaying it as long as you canby re-scheduling due to sickness,etc. Also ask for copy of Rules of Procedure for the arbitration hearing. Is arbitration binding or non-binding? OR 2. You could write the attorney and tell him you dont agree to arbitration and want a judge to hear it.....(dont know what legal right to ask for this is) This could buy you some stall time too.

[cliffdweller]

Thank you Snapple....ugh, I hate this so bad. I called my negotiator today to see if I can proceed with BK without any harm to the negotiation process (with whatever guarantees they want that the house is not included)...I just want out of this whole move to court hearing business. I will look over the arbitration agreement...it has all the rules I think.

[snapple candy]

CW, there is another lady who had WAMU loan and had same forbearance as you whcih she got back around when MHA program released. She actually is freddie mac backed loan. She did file BK but did not include house in BK. he made trial payments. When they found out she filed bk, they started filing motions to start forclosure proceedings. It may be that while you are in BK they cant do mcuh because any effort could be misconstrued as an attempt to collect a debt and that is a no-no while you under the protection of the automatic stay that is present when you file bankcruptcy. In fact that type of activity is violation of federal law-Fair Debt Collection Act. i recall when I went thru Chapter 7, I continued to make mortgage payments but they stopped billing me because of the BK. Unfortunately, I made a payment that was $20 short (since I didnt have payment coupon) which caused a cascade of legal actions by WAMU. Since the payment was short, they put it under "un-applied funds" and triggered a late payment. The WAMU filed for relief of automatic stay to start foreclosure proceedings. Mind you, they can see the un-applied funds in the account. Because I was in BK, they cannot contact me by law. Well that particular $20 mistake cost me alot of money and alot of stress. When it came down to it, I was told by WAMU BK department to have my BK attorney write them a letter so that they could talk to me directly and continue to bill me.(This way, they had a legal release of liability and were not violating automatic stay) Unfortunately, i did not know this going into the process until their was a problem. Had my BK attorney been on top of this and just done this initially, this problem would not occur. You might want to ak the attorneys on the other thread about some of this. Maybe they can be of help too.

[cliffdweller]

Yes, I will look at the BK thread. I am composing a letter in response to the arbitration claim in which I tell them that I am in the midst of a loan restructure with Wamu/Chase, and would like to postpone further action until October, 2009, when we will better positioned to negotiate a settlement.....truth is we will claim BK at that point, but at least we will be responding to the claim. I will wait to hear back from the Negotiator..maybe we can take care of it with a letter as you describe...that would be great.

[pbharris4]

Chase Home Finance called us yesterday and left a message (said it wasn't a collection call). DH called back today and they want a whole bunch of more paperwork. They said the negotiator wants this. I believe they also said it is in underwriting? We faxed a bunch of stuff just last week. Now they want recent pay stubs (again) 2007 & 2008 signed tax returns, 4 months of checking statements, a Home Affordable Modification Program Hardship Affidavit, a Profit/Loss statement (for a home daycare I run, but only make about $2000/yr on and we include in personal tax return). What a pain in the A**.

They apologized saying that now everything is scanned into the computer and some of the previously faxed stuff (was sent on June 11th) may have been misplaced, etc. They said it will now be in the system with in 48 hrs of being faxed. And that the process will now take 45 days and we should know yes or no. My Sh was getting pretty annoyed by now (it takes him alot to get to that point) and I am not helping matters, because I am like "Ask him..." So my husband asks them "How do I know you are not just going to ask me to keep faxing stuff in and stalling?" I forgot to ask DH the reply, but if this gets stalled again...I think I may just tell Chase.Wamu to take the house and shove it where the sun don't shine!!

[Marie T]

Hi PB ~

At least it sounds like they are working on it! What is a Home Affordable Modification Program Hardship Affidavit? Do you just take the info from your hardship letter and have it notarized or something?

I do not understand why they would even be looking at 2007 tax returns - what does that have to do with our economy right now? We are all in trouble in varying degrees because of the state of the economy so anything more than a year ago I don't think should be relevant. Just my opinion!

[cliffdweller]

PB,
I'm sorry this is happening to you..such a bunch of stress. But want you to know that I was asked for all the things you described except the Affidavit...must be new, or it is just another name for a signed statement. I fed-exed it all and got a return receipt...seemed to help that I had a specific name and address to fed-ex to. I think they are trying to determine your earning capability...which is probably to your favor in being approved. Some people are claiming economic hardship, but they have never really earned a lot more $$. Lets hope 45 days is on the outside!

[pbharris4]

Originally Posted by Marie T

Hi PB ~

At least it sounds like they are working on it! What is a Home Affordable Modification Program Hardship Affidavit? Do you just take the info from your hardship letter and have it notarized or something?

I do not understand why they would even be looking at 2007 tax returns - what does that have to do with our economy right now? We are all in trouble in varying degrees because of the state of the economy so anything more than a year ago I don't think should be relevant. Just my opinion!

I think the Affidavit is new also. I believe the guy on the phone said it's something Congress is now requiring. There's several items to check as to why there is a hardship and then a place for you to handwrite a letter giving explanation. In all, it's 4 pages. It needs to be signed, but not notarized.

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

PB,
I'm sorry this is happening to you..such a bunch of stress. But want you to know that I was asked for all the things you described except the Affidavit...must be new, or it is just another name for a signed statement. I fed-exed it all and got a return receipt...seemed to help that I had a specific name and address to fed-ex to. I think they are trying to determine your earning capability...which is probably to your favor in being approved. Some people are claiming economic hardship, but they have never really earned a lot more $$. Lets hope 45 days is on the outside!

They asked us to fax it, but I would also like to FED EX it overnight with a receipt like you did. I want a signature it was received. We do have the potential to make more money...when I can find a job. and DH will get a raise, but we are filing CH 7 as well and just can't afford everything. We are $900 in the hole every month and when I do get a job it probably won't be for more than $12/hr..which will make up the $900 but then there's the extra cost of gas and we'd have to pay for after school care for my one daughter. So we'd be just breaking even..maybe. So we'll see what pans out.

CD..I hope every thing works out for you!

Everyone else too!!

Pam

[snapple candy]

Hi all,
Glad to hear some forward progress. The Hardship Affidavit is a required document I know by Fannie/Freddie Mac and was included in my trial modification package. There are alot of boxes to check as they apply and then considerable space to write your hardship letter. It may be repetitive but I imagine they are trying to standardize the forms and process. Which of course is sure needed. I didnt have to provide 2 years of taxes, just 1. Maybe since you are self-employed PB?

[pbharris4]

I don't know, I guess. I just watch one boy after school. Last year I had two, a boy & girl. The girl's family is self-employed with a heavy machinery repair place and since the building industry has taken a hit they have too. So the mom cut back her hours to pick the girl up at school. I guess that could be why they want to include the taxes. Or Maybe to see if my DH's income has risen over the past few years and the potential for more raises. Once we file and the house is modified we are good to go. We'd be a better credit risk and if they looked at our credit report for 20 years prior to Oct.2008 they would see we never had a late payment or anything. I wonder how they determine everything.

[cliffdweller]

PB: Were you able to learn anything about the impact of claiming BK on your ability to get a modification? When I called, they implied that it would stop it dead in the tracks.
I'm waiting for a call back to determine if it is possible to sign an affidavit keeping the house out of the BK.