Chase/Wamu and Deutsche Bank

[caldwellb02]

UPDATE.FIRST, MY STORY IN BRIEF is I bought my house in February, 2006. When the original loan application was placed with Long Beach Mortgage, my son and I requested that we both be on the loan.
We found out shortly before the deal closed that they had decided just to give the loan to me and not include my son. I thought this was a bit strange as I didn’t think I made enough to qualify for the $300,000 mortgage, but since I knew my son would be paying half I wasn’t worried so I went along with the deal. The way the market was going at the time we planned to refinance in a couple of years anyway.

I have a first and a second mortgage. The first is an ARM that will adjust again in September. The second is fixed at over 9 percent interest.With the mortgage crises in full swing, my mortgage was set to start adjusting in 2008. I worked with WaMu for 4 months on a loan modification. At the 11^th hour they said it could only happen if we put my son onto the loan, and that they would only give me a modification for a year. The mod just froze the adjustable first mortgage at the rate it was originally at.
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I started working on a longer term modification on January 4, 2009. My first mortgage adjusted in March, and it is set to adjust again in September.
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For the past four months my son reduced his payments to 600 dollars a month, and since Chase now cut his credit limit on his credit card he will not be able to help at all from here on in. Other reasons for this are: he works at WashingtonMutual/ Chase and his monthly salary decreased significantly, and that he has taken on more than 500 dollars a month in student loan payments (he graduated from college in 2007).
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I have told this story to numerous representatives of the WaMu/teams, from the loss mitigation department to the Executive Team to the imminent default team and others. Several people at WaMu/Chase have told me to go into default so I can get help. This seems so very bizarre.
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Today I was called by “Ali” at the imminent default team and told that they had denied my mod. I asked why. He said he didn’t know. I said I need specifics. He again said he was just told to call me and tell me it was denied. I pressed (of course). Then he said that my “ratio” was 21 percent. I said I have two loans and pay approximately 2300 a month on less than 50,000 per year gross. That’s 55 percent. What was he talking about? I had to press and press for him finally to get me to a supervisor. “Frank” came on the line to talk with me. I told him about my dilemma and he said “you have a second with us??” !!!!!!! Breathing slowly, I said I did. I told him I had told several people that my son was not able to pay on the loan anymore (after they forced me to put him on it in 2008), and that I was going to have to go into default if I didn’t get the mod. He said that if I did go into default, that would make the loss mitigation team step up to the plate, but this ‘new” information (that I had a second with WaMu/Chase and that my son wasn’t paying) put a new light on things. He would have someone call me in 48 hours.

This is excruciating. I feel like I'm a hamster running a treadmill. I wish I could send the above overview to SOMEONE at Chase who could cut through the red tape. I can't hold on much longer.

[Moe Bedard]

Thanks for the update....................I know first hand that it is difficult to do, but try to hang in there..................


Were you still working with NACA?
Anything there?

[caldwellb02]

I'm still working with NACA. Haven't had time to call them this week (usually includes a 20-30 minute "hold.") I talked with them last week and they said they had received word that Chase had their request, and they were reviewing it. The person at NACA said I should call often, because "the more you call, the more attention your file gets." So I WILL call today.

I just wrote my congressman about this. I don't think they can do anything specifically for me, but I just wonder if they are aware at all? What do people do who can't take the time to be on hold/on the phone as much as I have in the past six months???

[caldwellb02]

Realized I'm sitting here pretty scared. Can't concentrate on work. Good grief I need relief from this.

I just called NACA, and they said they are going to call CHASE next week for an update.

I am trying to stay positive, but I'm just so darn tired. I'm too tired to be angry. I'm not an irresponsible person. I pay my taxes, am current on all of my debts. I support my kids in college and work long hours as a nonprofit executive. I need a nice break. I just feel like this is so very convoluted and so very very unhealthy.

[caldwellb02]

Just got a call from Penny Davis of the Executive Team. (I haven't spoken with her in a month, and thought she was out of the picture since the "imminent default team" had contacted me). Penny wants proof of payment of property taxes and proof of payment of homeowners insurance, plus my paystubs. I HAVE AN ESCROW ACCOUNT WITH CHASE THAT THEY SET UP IN EARLY APRIL!!! Sent them the proof anyway (I did pay property taxes - see previous posts), and included a declarations statement from my insurance company and the bill they sent to Chase/Wamu for my homeowners insurance, due July 9th. No wonder the banks went under!

[caldwellb02]

update. Got a call from WaMu/chase wanting a slew of information, some of which was info I had sent to the Executive Team last week. I called the exec team, and though Penny Davis wasn't there, Josephine Martinez advised me to tell anyone else who calls from chase that I am now working with the executive team and it all needs to go to them. Soooo I'm sending Penny what this other guy Kevin requested - things like current bank statements, updated hardship letter and the like. Josephine implied she had no idea why these other people were calling me. Although on the one hand it feels good to have someone on the "executive team" as my negotiator, on the other hand I'm wondering if another branch of Chase could just pull it all out from under me if I don't abide by their rules. Any advice?

[caldwellb02]

Will this never stop? Penny Davis called me. She said she has been trying to get ahold of me for a week. I said I had sent everything to her through Josephine Martinez (se my earlier post). She didn't know who Josephine Martinez was. Penny says she is not my negotiator - that one hasn't been assigned yet (we are going on 7 months now). She asked for Josephine's number (which is the Executive TEam). I called the Exec team myself, and couldn't get ahold of Josephine. I asked how the process works. The woman (Karen) says that the Exec team (Where Josephine is) collects the info and then sends it to Chase's Exec team (Where Penny is). I asked if she could check to see if the information (83 pages of documentation) had been sent to Penny by Josephine. She checked, and said it had. I asked Karen to e-mail Penny to say just look in her computer and see that it is all there.

This process is dumbfounding. I am going to call twice a week - at least - from now on. One problem is that I don't have penny davis' e-mail. Her voice mail is always full. Does anyone know how to get their e-mail addresses?

[caldwellb02]

Update. Got the letter yesterday saying my ARM will be adjusting up in September. Of course, I was ready for this. I am closer to just going into default. I have just about drained any savings I had and defaulting will help me build that up and maybe get some real action from Chase. Maybe I'll get one more holiday season in this house. I am so so so discouraged today.

[azdmsmith]

Hang in there, I know how frustrating it is when even Chase can't figure out who is who and what the process is. I read in another thread that you were considering not making a payment to go into default and speed up the mod process. I too have been slowly depleting my savings, but by not making a payment I ended up having too much money in the bank and was denied a mod. If you don't make a payment I encourage you to apply the money you "save" to another bill rather than keeping in in your bank account. Good luck.

[caldwellb02]

Thanks azdmsmith. That's good advice. Hadn't thought of that. I have my loan payments on autopay right now. I think I'll take off the autopay, and take it from there. I am paying my July mortgage, so have a few weeks to consider where I want to go with this. I'm supposedly working with NACA also (they submitted a proposal to Chase on 4/24), but they are never available (I call and I'm "76th" in line.... no time to wait), and I e-mailed twice but no answer. i suppose they're totally overwhelmed as well. In any event, I will take your advice - I do have credit cards that it will take some time to pay down.... thanks again. Still a bit down. This is the first home I've ever owned. I never liked being a renter, but this is worse in many ways.

[caldwellb02]

Just called NACA. No word. They say that (contrary to what they told me two weeks ago), they are not calling the lender anymore to find out status. The last they heard from my lender was 6/6, which was 35 days after they submitted the proposal. The guy I talked to on 6/16 said they keep calling the lender every couple of weeks. This guy said they are not doing that any more -They are simply waiting for the lender to either turn down their proposal or ask for more information. I said I had previously been told to call every couple of weeks - the guy, Carlos, at NACA said yes to call (today I waited 30 minutes on hold, which is typical), but that they would probably have no additional information. I asked if they would contact me if they heard from the lender - they said they'd try e-mail first, then a call. I told him my property was reassessed at $50,000 less than I bought it for, and asked if he needed that info. He said "probably" - just fax it to them with my member number. I'm very very discouraged. This is not the line NACA gave me while I was applying. I asked if I had a negotiator, and he said yes, gave me her name, but wouldn't let me talk with her. Wondering if NACA is just hype.

[azdmsmith]

I hope it's not just hype because they were my back up plan if I can't get anywhere with Chase on my own. I've read in this forum that many people have been sucessful with NACA, it may be that NACA is now overwhelmed as well. While I'm happy for the people who have applied in the last month or two and got a trial mod relatively quickly, it sure seems like there is no ryhme or reason to who gets help and how long it takes. I'm trying to remain grateful that I'm somewhere in between the people who are able to get a trial mod right away and those who have been trying a year and longer or even the fact that were it not for the HAMP a mod might not even be available to assist me, but I also know how easy it is to let this whole process get you down.

[caldwellb02]

Hi all. Thought I'd post an update. In the past month I've sent dozens upon dozens of pages of information to Chase. I'm working with a person from the Executive Team - Penny Davis - who actually now knows me when I call and doesn't have to look up my loan numbers. She has helped me when Chase didn't pay my homeowners insurance (though they made me set up an escrow account in April) by sticking with me on a three-way call till the deal was done. Yesterday she gave me her personal e-mail (which I won't give out - sorry) and I am scanning documents to her. They were geting lost the other way. She unfortunately is NOT my negotiator, and I have no idea where I stand even though there is a nice lady on the other end of the line. I am not in default, but have about 2 months to go after which I will be. My loan is set to adjust up Sept 1. I have been working on this since January 5.

It's hard to keep on truckin. Part of me just wants to bail and stop paying but I love my house. But some advice I would give to those of us still holding on: don't wait for them to call you. Call them. and if you get a voice mail, don't depend on their calling back. Call and call and call till you get a live person. If you do get a member of the executive team to work with you, and you can't get ahold of him/her (VM usually full I find), then call the main exec team number and ask them to e-mail your contact. they usually do that. again, I still don't know if I'll be successful in the end, but this tactic does work.

Good luck out there. And, by the way, my son works for Chase and is on the loan and it doesn't help --- not one bit!

[Marie T]

I think NACA is overwhelmed but I also think it is a lot of hype and they are making money off the loans they do! I did not realize before I went to the workshop that they also do loans just like a mortgage company. The workshop that I went to they were marketing that they do loans but you have to use THEIR designated realtors. I looked it up and their designated realtors have to split off a big part of their commission to NACA so right now I am really suspect of the whole organization.

I am still updating them once a month as they told me to but I am not looking to them to save me at all ....all their interest in me having a predatory loan does not seem to matter at all now and I spent a whole lot of time getting everything pulled together and attending the workshop, entering everything online and then meeting with their counselor to then play this waiting game.

[BillB]

I have Chase for my 20 loan and also Deutshe as the investor and have not yet started the modification process since I may try a different angle and try strong arming them into a settlement since they are apparently up on fraud charges for loans they got from New Century that they bundled into securities and then got paid for by insurance. Almost makes you wonder if all these delay tactics, etc. are put in because Deutshe will not open up the pool where your loan is in hence not able to renegotiate. It could be that we are paying back our mortgages to basically nothing via Chase. I'm not 100% sure on this but this is the avenue I'm exploring. Have you tried the QWA thing? If my theory is correct or at least partially correct they may not be able to produce any of the original docs depending on the chain of custody after the original loan was signed.

[caldwellb02]

Denied today. I had stated the main reason for my request was my son was on the loan and his income has gone way down and expenses up. they said my son wasn't on the loan. I reminded them, and faxed them the paperwork, that proved my son is on the loan.

I have stopped my automatic mortgage payments.

I have written my congressman, senators, and the President.

I will decide on August 15th whether or not to go into default.

My question: what happens? What can I expect once I go into default? How long do you think I have (I live in CA)?

I am also thinking of bankruptcy to wipe out the credit card bills I've been racking up trying to keep this loan current. Why not?

Any advice out there? I am thoroughly disgusted with Chase. And by the way, why is it so hard to get into this forum these days?

[caldwellb02]

I've been consumed by this today.

Got a call from my congressman's office yesterday evening. She (his local rep) was really affected by the letter I sent. She asked about Hope Now, and HUD, etc., and I told her they were of no help. She asked if, in all these 7 months, I've ever heard from Chase what they could Possibly give me if I "qualified," and i answered that no, I had never had that discussion with them. And FYI - in opposition to the guidance that NACA gives (that if their attempt for us doesn't work we should press our congressmen/senators to talk with the CEO's of the banks), she said it is illegal for members of congress to directly contact the banks.

Congress is overwhelmed with the healthcare issue - but she said she would make sure congressman Thompson read the letter.I wasn't asking for their help for me ---- just that they gotta know what's going on out here.

Today I'm holding out the notion that there may be something good for me. I don't know where this stupid optimism comes from. the only control I have is whether I default. Barring some miracle, August will be the month that happens. Then it's a whole different ball game. I love having this place to talk about my travails, but sure do wish there was some thread of hope that this would work for people.....

[caldwellb02]

Bill - what is the QWA thing?

[caldwellb02]

Okay. So I figured out that he means "Qualified Written Request." I've been doing some research, and realize:

1. when my one year mod happened in May 2008, they never sent me any final documents (with their signatures)

2. When escrow was established in early april, 2009, they never sent me any written confirmation.

I'm going to be writing for a QWR and I really think that I will find more, such as:misrepresentation of my salary on the original loan. (I was always straight up with them on what I made, but I got a loan that was too big for me)

So. I received a response from Paul Molinaro on another thread that attorneys don't do Forensic Loan audits just on their own - you have to be a client.

Is there another way to do this? If I could find someone (i'd pay) to do the audit and they found something, then I'd have some additional teeth with which to fight back. I am really one of those people with NO extra money - I just don't have the savings to grab $3000 or thereabouts for an attorney yet (though I will default this month so there's some funds to start building)....

Any advice?

[azdmsmith]

I hope you find some support from your elected officials. I read that in the meetings last week in Washington, one of the issues discussed was developing an automatic “second look” process by which any borrower that is denied a HAMP will go through a second review process to make sure the denial is legitimate. Considering no one even seems to be able to get the first review done consistently and in accordance with guidelines who knows how long it will take to develop an effective “second look” process, but we can hope.

I would also strongly suggest you file a Better Business Bureau complaint. For me that seemed to get some attention and it at least requires that Chase respond. They responded in writing with reasons for my denial that were completely bogus, but at least I had something in writing. When I pointed out (through a BBB response) that the reasons were completely bogus and violated the HAMP guidelines, my file started moving forward and a different exec resolution person called me (the first two I worked with were clueless) “in response to my BBB complaint”. I still don’t have approval, but in the absence of any formal appeal or complaint process, I think my file at least got some attention due to my BBB complaint. There are categories that you can select for the basis of your complaint when you file it on line. I think I used poor customer service which seems applicable to your situation as well given the failure to provide you with documents and confirmation.
If nothing else the BBB is at least an option that won’t cost you anything and will force someone to give your situation some attention. Best of luck to you. I hope one way or another something comes through for you. Don’t give up.

[BillB]

Caldwell it looks like you found out what QWA means. Based on my research thus far it's mostly used for a stall tactic when you're in foreclosure but after talking to a couple of attorneys I've found that some don't want to be bothered with it period while some are a bit more interested and more intuned with the new laws. The ones I've talked to seem to think that it's good to use to get their attention and MAKE them have to open up your file and when you do find violations you can go from there and either work out a settlement on the total debt owed for at the very least get more leverage to get a better interest rate on the mod. I've been researching all over the place for a while now and believe it would be in my best interest to send a QWA letter but I've recently decided to hire an attorney and spoon feed everything to the attorney (take out all the grunt work that would ultimately cost a fortune) so that way when I do get the mortgage companies attention I don't have to worry about the negotiating and or saying the wrong thing when they do respond to the QWA letter as required by law. If nothing else the attorney can do this while also doing the mod which saves me time and aggravation and hopefully makes the process more efficient. Unfortunately it will cost me a little now but if it can save me a lot later it's worth it. Your best bet is to do ALL of your research on your own so that when you call around to lawyers you're not saying "I can't afford my mortgage please help" and more like "I would like to pursue x y or z based on blah blah blah and are you interested in pursuing something like this". I've gotten much better responses to this approach and hopefully this will make my attorney fee a bit less seeing as I won't need my hand held through the process. I look at it more like hiring an advisor with muscle so we'll see if my theories are correct after I decide which one to hire (hopefully this week).

[caldwellb02]

Thanks to both Adzmith and Bill B. Great advice. I never thought of the BBB. I am still waiting for Chase's response to their review after they "found" the documents they said they didn't have last week. I thought I'd give it a week. I'm defaulting this month for the first time, so for sure I'll be in their radar. I'm pulling all my other money out of Chase. I don't trust them right now. But, Bill B, I like the idea of doing alot of the work up front. If I get the QWR response, and perhaps can actually identify some issues to present to the attorney, then theoretically my attorney fee will be a little lighter. I don't expect anything for free; I know there will be a place down the line where I need their expertise. I do think I need some teeth. This last time I started using my "Ed.D." after my name. Goofy - I rarely use it, but I thought why not build myself up a bit? Thank goodness I've gotten past the desperate and gloomy space into one where I'm gonna fight this.

BillB - how did you find an array of attorneys to talk with? Why aren't you using Fransen and Molinaro, if you don't mind my asking?

By the way - I haven't been able to get on this site all day -- lots of activity on the server I guess.

[BillB]

I emailed Fransen and Molinaro once but never heard back from them. I'm guessing it's because I live in Mass and not California. I have a few attorneys in my family but none that practice real estate or bankruptcy law so just got a couple of referrals. Didn't have much luck finding one via google or any other random searching techniques and I think it's always better to attempt to find someone via referral first before randomly looking for just anyone because if you do find a top of the line lawyer for a reasonable fee you'll just end up getting one of their less experienced associates handling everything which can set you back a bit. To be honest with you the most information available for researching mortgage issues is right here on this site. Personally I'm having the attorney file the QWA letter to give it teeth and also to be involved from the start but I communicated this to everyone that I interviewed that that's how I would like to start the process and gauged their reactions accordingly. For the same reason you need to get everything in order before doing a mod with your company by yourself you also want to have everything in order before hiring an attorney and making sure you know what you want to do so that you don't get jerked around by the attorney (unfortunately alot of them talk the talk at the beginning only to fade off and not care once they get paid). Like everything else you just have to be careful with everything and in my opinion its better to hire a lawyer to execute YOUR PLAN and then combine pieces of what they suggest and see if its worth hiring them and make sure you get the fees and or expectations in writing before hiring so that there's no surprises once you're already half way in the process. Just more stress you don't need.

[caldwellb02]

Quick update. Got a call from Senator Boxer's office just now (I had faxed her, Feinstein, my congressman and Obama last Friday). I never expected to hear from them. They are assigning a case manager to my case. Wonder what this will bring?

[BillB]

You might want to try finding an attorney willing to do the work pro bono since you now have Senator's ear which might be enticing to an attorney to get their name(s) out there.