Old 03-25-2009, 03:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Answers a lot of questions concerning credit, credit scores, renting, taxes and so forth post foreclosure. Actually one of the better articles regarding folks in our situation. Here's a little something that resonated with me after reading.


If you’re among the millions of people who will not qualify for the Obama administration’s program to help troubled homeowners, you’re probably wondering what you’re supposed to do now.

Perhaps you no longer have enough income to pay your loans. Or you can afford the payments but don’t qualify for refinancing under the new plan because the value of your home is too far below the balance of the loan. If you’re far enough underwater, you’re probably questioning the wisdom of writing a monthly check on a place that may take 10 or 15 years to get back to the value it had two or three years ago. It isn’t easy to come up with the answer, and if you have moral misgivings about not making good on your mortgage, a religious officiant may offer as much useful guidance as a financial planner.
In an economic environment like this one, however, the consequences of giving up on your mortgage may not be as painful as they were a few years ago. Yes, it’s almost always preferable to negotiate a better deal on your existing mortgage than to walk away. But if you can’t work things out with your lender, you probably won’t be sued. You shouldn’t receive a major tax bill either. And the damage to your credit will not be permanent or insurmountable.

Let’s look at these last three in order.

YOUR LENDER First off, let’s define what we mean by “giving up” on your current mortgage. It may mean trying for a short sale, where the lender allows you to sell your home for less than the mortgage amount. You may also hand over the deed to the home in exchange for the lender agreeing not to start foreclosure proceedings (a “deed in lieu” in industry terms). Then, there’s foreclosure itself, and the possibility that bankruptcy judges may soon have the power to adjust the terms of primary mortgages.

That said, just because you’re ineligible under the Obama plan doesn’t mean that your lender or servicer won’t ultimately adjust your mortgage anyhow. Collectively, there are enough people in trouble or under water on their loans that they have plenty of leverage if they’re willing to play chicken with their lender and threaten to stop paying.

The problem is, the lender can play chicken, too, by threatening to come after you for the balance of any money you owe — whether it’s the difference between what you sell the property for yourself and the remaining mortgage, or the loan amount left over after the lender sells your property in foreclosure.

The lender may not follow through, though. “What our membership is telling us is that it can be cost-prohibitive to chase down a borrower who is already in financial distress,” said John Mechem, a spokesman for the Mortgage Bankers Association. “You can’t squeeze blood from a stone.” They may, however, still come after people with high incomes who walk away from jumbo loans that are way under water or loans on investment properties.

Some states have laws that may specifically prohibit lenders from pursuing borrowers for the balance of many mortgage loans after foreclosure, though the particulars vary. Arizona and California are among these states, according to Steven Bender, a professor at the University of Oregon School of Law. It’s best to talk to a lawyer to determine your state’s rules.

In fact, if you want to be sure your lender (or a collection agency that it may sell your loan to) won’t chase you down, it’s a good idea to have a lawyer involved with any short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself. “You must get the bank to agree in writing that any deficiency is waived,” said Chip Parker, a lawyer specializing in foreclosure with Parker & DuFresne in Jacksonville, Fla.

The biggest challenge here may simply be finding someone at the bank to help. Having a second mortgage will also complicate matters.

YOUR TAXES You also need to consider the taxman. Often, forgiven debts are taxable as income. Recent legislative changes, however, eliminate the federal tax burden through 2012 on most primary residence debt that a lender has reduced through loan restructuring or forgiven during foreclosure.

Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for CCH, a tax information service, said that people who sell their home through a short sale or give up the deed in lieu of foreclosure can also qualify for tax relief if they use a special tax form, 1099-C, that reflects the amount of debt that the lender has forgiven.

People who live in states with their own income taxes may avoid a big bill as well. Some states, like Arizona and California, have introduced or passed legislation that echoes the federal laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Many others tend to mimic most or all federal income tax laws as a general rule, according to CCH. Check with an accountant in your state to be sure.

YOUR CREDIT A short sale, deed in lieu or foreclosure itself will almost certainly damage your credit report and score, and the black mark will last for up to seven years. But the amount of damage it does will depend on how much other credit trouble you’ve gotten yourself into with other lenders.

If you’re giving up the home you own, you’ll probably need to rent soon afterward. Will landlords turn you away once they check your credit and discover your troubled mortgage? “If it’s the only thing marring their credit, it’s probably not a big issue,” said Clay Powell, the director of the Rental Property Owners Association of Michigan, who added that good tenants could be scarce in economic environments like this one.

In fact, Todd J. Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University, predicted that FICO may have to adjust its credit scores to lessen the impact of a foreclosure or similar incident. “It just seems obvious that a foreclosure in 2008 or 2009 doesn’t have as much information value as a foreclosure five years ago,” he said. “To the extent that foreclosure doesn’t predict future behavior as much as it did in the past, you’d expect that the FICO algorithm would change to adjust for that.”

Craig Watts, a spokesman for FICO, said that was an interesting idea. “We try not to get involved too much in psychobabble around what is and isn’t predictive,” he said. “If the numbers show that foreclosure is less predictive, then we’ll take it into account in future redevelopments of the formula.” That would take a minimum of two to three years, though.

Some lenders aren’t waiting that long to initiate their own foreclosure destigmatization programs. The Golden 1, one of the nation’s largest credit unions, now has a mortgage repair loan for people who have lost a home to foreclosure but want to buy a new one.

It’s hard to imagine that there won’t be a parade of insurance companies, credit card issuers and mortgage lenders in Golden 1’s wake, even though Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may be unwilling to guarantee the mortgages of such borrowers for several years. In fact, Aaron Bresko, the vice president of lending for BECU, another large credit union based in Washington State, is putting together a panel called “How to Lend to the Newly Credit Impaired” for a conference later this year.

“Good people have bad things happen to them, so how do you find those people and reach out to them?” he said. “As the year progresses, it’s going to be an emerging market




Looks like the 7 year ding on the credit report may not be so bad after all.

Enjoi

Dizzle


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Old 03-25-2009, 09:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Great article. thanks for posting.
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Dizzle,
Thanks for the article. It all makes perfect sense. And I learned a new word, psychobabble, have plenty of uses for that one.
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Old 03-28-2009, 09:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Dizzle, thanks for posting! It is great info. It confirms what I suspected with regards to lenders suing down the road. I was told, there is such a mass of people in this boat, the impact in the long term would be less that in the past.
No doubt, you cannot get blood out of a turnip. I have been trying to determine the statute of limitations on any potential judgements obtained by these lenders.
I did however watch a scary 20/20 last night on debt collectors which is unregulated for the most part. These collectors can buy up the debt and the lender hands over the entire file including all your personal information such as bank accounts, ss, employer. In one scenario, 2 convicted felons (fraud) had 3-4 corporations set up to collect debt and using illegal tactics to try and squeeze the borrowers. They get sued all the time but the amount of money they collect vs the payout to loss suit makes it worth their while. On hidden camera interview of an employee stated his favorite thing to do was to call up people's bosses at home in the evening to rat out their employee and create problems. Not only does the lending industry need more regulation but so does these so-called debt collection companies. An area we should advocate for change in so we dont get stung down the road if we walk away or get forclosed upon. I fear these lenders will sell these debts to regain some of their losses and some of us will be victims all over again.
I like the playing chicken part. Its exactly what I am doing. I agree, collectively we do have leverage. They only thing we can do is play hard ball with our lenders.
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Old 03-28-2009, 11:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapple candy View Post
Dizzle, thanks for posting! It is great info. It confirms what I suspected with regards to lenders suing down the road. I was told, there is such a mass of people in this boat, the impact in the long term would be less that in the past.
No doubt, you cannot get blood out of a turnip. I have been trying to determine the statute of limitations on any potential judgements obtained by these lenders.
I did however watch a scary 20/20 last night on debt collectors which is unregulated for the most part. These collectors can buy up the debt and the lender hands over the entire file including all your personal information such as bank accounts, ss, employer. In one scenario, 2 convicted felons (fraud) had 3-4 corporations set up to collect debt and using illegal tactics to try and squeeze the borrowers. They get sued all the time but the amount of money they collect vs the payout to loss suit makes it worth their while. On hidden camera interview of an employee stated his favorite thing to do was to call up people's bosses at home in the evening to rat out their employee and create problems. Not only does the lending industry need more regulation but so does these so-called debt collection companies. An area we should advocate for change in so we dont get stung down the road if we walk away or get forclosed upon. I fear these lenders will sell these debts to regain some of their losses and some of us will be victims all over again.
I like the playing chicken part. Its exactly what I am doing. I agree, collectively we do have leverage. They only thing we can do is play hard ball with our lenders.
Snapple,

I saw that Dateline show on debt collectors last night. OMG !!! The more I learn about the financial sectors of this country, the more I want to hike it out of here . That debt collection operation was unbelievable. The poor victims. I'm no expert on debt collection, but I do know that if some jerk called me and told me there was a warrant out on me for an $800 debt, and he/she told me someone would be coming to pick me up to put me in custody, I would laugh me head off ! But, the fact that even violent, convicted felons (that guy - pimp daddy thugmeister - armed robbery ?) can open up a debt collection shop without breaking any laws and then businesses (w/out breaking any laws) can sell your personal data to violent, convicted felons just blows me away. The harassment and "bad acting" tactics they use (posing as cops, etc.) doesn't even shock me. It's the fact that a convicted felon can't get a job post conviction (unless you're a white collar felon - your friends hook you up immediately with another high paying job ), and American business owners routinely sell your personal data to these thugs who then have their thug buddies pull their bullshyt on tax paying, hard working American families. I was blown away. Forget about regulating. It should be illegal period for any convicted felon (esp violent ones) to be able to open a shop that deals with $$$$ and personal data and run their games on American taxpayers. Period. This country is crazy. I give up trying to make sense of any of this anymore. There is no rhyme or reason to anything. It's all just a bad dream . Those other countries are starting to look read good Snapple !

And, if anyone wants to watch more uplifting "entertainment" watch Dateline (Sun night) to see more creeps who are targeting the unemployed with their lovely employment scams (all legal I'm sure)
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Nice to hear from ya Irish Gal!
It was a pretty incredible story. Can you believe that guys thugmobile all painted up? Talk about blatant. It truly is unbelievable felons convicted of fraud can purchase all of our personal financial information by way of legal corporations. Right after watching that, I moved on to Bill Maher show on HBO and got some pretty good laughs. That guy is damn funny unless of course you are a russ limbaugh fan.
This whole business of debt collectors hits really close to home. I have watched a close friend get harrased for close to a year by a nut job debt collector. This person has no boundaries as to what she will do and done some extreme things you would not believe. One morning my friend and her kids came out and saw debt collector crawling across the lawn comando style, to hiding in the bushes, to doing circles in the street in front of her house beeping her horn. Stole mail from mail boxes. Even went to her landlord and tried to serve a bogus levy on her rent security deposit! Then she started harrasing her landlord who then had to hire an attorney. She eventually got evicted because the landlord couldnt take it anymore. Debt collector has doctored levy's that sheriff's refused to serve and tried numerous times to clear out her and her children's bank accounts.Thank god bank was on guard for it. She has posed as law enofrcement to to try to intimidate others. Most recently she was able to find a sleazy judge to sign an order for my friends child support to be garnished! This is not legally allowed. The courthouse, sheriffs dept, attorneys, and even small claims judges know what this person is doing (to others too) but yet no one does anything about it.This debt collector shows up in court with a rope as a belt, filthy, white trash, wrinkled clothes,and out of the 50's era, cant even give a decent presentation verbally, and can still manage to convince people she is credible. I gave up trying to make sense of it all too. This country is ready to implode, and it maybe already.
The average citizen could not afford to hire an attorney to fight a debt collector that files weekly court motions that are defective and fraudulent. Just as in the end of that 20/20, it would probably be cheaper just to pay the money that to put up with the harrasment and legal expense. And these debt collectors are counting on that. In my friends case, she is a paralegal and able defend herself and capable of putting this person in jail someday. She has got the backbone and the skills to stand up to this bs. I feel sorry for those that have been subjected to such tactics. What is this country coming to? It is sad.

BTW, it appears that New Hampshire and Vermont have the best ratio of representation (per person in legislature) for those not wanting to leave the states just yet. Canada appears to have less corruption than US also.
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Old 03-28-2009, 03:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Holy Cow, I am glad I came here to read this and really glad I decided to forgo the short sale for the very reason that the banks wanted me to sign a release on my filed income taxes so they could get their hands on any files, any year they want. Not only income taxes but bk information and everything else under the sun! This scares the beejeebers out of me, the worst of it being the fact that they make calls to your boss and can cost you a job/??// Good thing hubby went to renew his CHL today, I'd like to see some redneck scum bucket try to comando across my front lawn in Texas, he would get picked off so fast he wouldn't have time to serpintine. Thanks for the post. And yes, Irish Gal, bailing out of this country is looking better every day. Texas
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Old 03-29-2009, 09:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Snapple or anyone,

Anyone see the final Dateline show on employment scams that was on tonight ? I missed it. If you saw it, what were the employment scams being pulled on the unemployed ?
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

It said it didn't air tonight due to sports coverage...........


STAY TUNED FOR THE FINAL PART OF 'INSIDE THE FINANCIAL FIASCO'

Keep checking dateline.msnbc.com for information on when the final part of our financial series, originally scheduled to air on Sunday, March 29 but postponed due to live sports coverage, will be on NBC. We'll keep you posted on the Web site and on our twitterfeed, Dateline NBC (datelinenbc) on Twitter.

Here's what the last part of the series focuses on:

For months now, Americans have sat back and watched helplessly as their jobs and nest eggs have vanished. And many are falling prey to scam artists who promise easy money. Now NBC's Chris Hansen continues his series on the American economy with two hidden camera investigations that might help you steer clear of the dangers that could trigger even MORE financial disaster - including a work-at-home scam that could end up emptying your bank account.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Irish Gal,
I have seen a few stories on this already. It think alot of it is coming off on-line employment ads particularly Craigs list. Many craigs list ads dont list employer and they ask for your resume and other personal information. Some even ask for SS and more. Some are supposid work from home on-line jobs that ask for account numbers or set up fees. Once they have your check with account number they can get to your account and tap it.
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Old 03-30-2009, 11:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Chefette,
LOL. Yes if that debt collector came across my lawn in Oregon, I could shoot her too. An update to that story. My friend just got an order from the court (in one county) that this debt collector had no legal rights to collect anything from my friend and the court found in favor of my friend.She owes $0. This debt collector stupidly filed another claim in another county in a different jurisdiction. That is where the sleazy judge signed an order to garnish child support which is under appeal. From what I understand, this new order will supercede and blow the other claim out of the water and/or this judge will be in hot water. When all is said in done, this debt collector has comitted numerous felonious acts including mail fraud which is federal and filing false reports and fraudulent claims in the court. I have not told you half the stories this debt collector has done that so outragious, most would not believe. My friend has had to drop out of school and not take on work in order to defend herself for close to a year because of this nut job. It has cost her alot.Someday I believe she will recover it + and this person will be in jail. No thanks to the authorities, only because she has the grit to go after this person and the legal know how to do it.
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Snapple,
Wow, I tell you I am very sorry for your friend, but I do love to hear that she fought the slime ball and won. Of course, the cost to her must be overwhelming, I do hope she recovers, what a horrible thing to have to go through. Its getting scary around here and I am not an alarmist, but boy all you have to do is watch what goes on in our own government and I think it emboldens the low lifes to do what they please because there is nobody watching and what kind of role models are sitting in Washington DC?

Yep, heading to the gun range this weekend for target practice.
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Old 03-30-2009, 08:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Thanks Chefette.
Yes, my friend has experienced alot and much more considerable harrasment because she exposes those in the legal system whom are corrupt. She takes alot of heat for her advocacy and has a suit of armour and somehow amazingly takes it all in stride and survives it all and can still laugh about it. She is my role model and I cheer her on all the time. I have lost most all respect for those whom will abuse their power and take advantage of people monetarily. You are right to be alarmed. There is absolutely no accountablity or controls anywhere within our federal, state or local governments. I have experienced it personally and it makes me sick. This whole mortgage debackle is a prime example. I gave up trying to figure out if WAMU will ever get around to offering me a decent deal. I try to live in the moment....not knowing whether I will have a home in a few months. We really shouldnt have to live this way.The gun range sounds like a good alternative for cheap fun.... Maybe they should have all the CEO /talking heads up on posters for target practice....have fun.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:57 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Good Read from Yahoo Finance

Snapple,
Thanks for sharing your friends story. I think we sometimes get too bogged down to want to fight our battles head on and we feel helpless. Your friend goes on to inspire us here, and we should think long and hard about what is around the corner, not just how to get around foreclosures.

Lol, yea, I can think of a few more heads I'd like to see on those targets. Bullets have become hard to come by as they are now on the list for big time tax increases. Unreal, now people are buying bullets and stocking up. So very soon, it will not be such a cheap afternoon. Lol, hubby said at the range for CHL renewals, most were females and one of the group was a 71 year old woman who could handle herself rather well........she did pass the test. Very interesting.
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