Any BofA serviced /Wells Fargo Invested approvals for DOJ Principal Reduction?

**daveinaz** · 08-03-2012, 04:48 PM

I know I have read posts saying that some people are saying they are denied because B of A services their loan and Wells Fargo is their investor. Some are saying that they are APPROVED, even though their servicer and their investor are NOT the same. Has ANYONE been approved with B of A as their servicer and Wells Fargo their investor? I turned in my docs a month ago today, they still say it is "in review". I would think I would be quickly disqualified if I didn't qualify for that reason, rather than keeping me in review for so long??

**Cat Damiano** · 08-04-2012, 01:02 AM

Hi daveinaz,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for joining...........

Wells Fargo has a Q&A about the settlement on their website as do the other four servicers, and it states;

The agreements represent a very important step toward restoring confidence in mortgage servicing and stability in the housing market. Wells Fargo actively participated in the discussions leading to this agreement. The agreements provide for the expansion of modification and refinance criteria for customers with Wells Fargo-owned loans that we also service.

https://www.wellsfargo.com/downloads/pdf/homeassist/attorneys_general_settlement.pdf

**daveinaz** · 08-04-2012, 04:25 PM

Thanks. My SERVICER is Bank Of America and my Trustee is Wells Fargo though. I see it says on B of A website the following: "customers must have a loan owned by Bank of America or a loan held by a mortgage investor that has delegated authority to Bank of America." How Do I know if Wells Fargo gives DELEGATED AUTHORITY to my servicer (Bank of America) to do the DOJ Principal Reduction Modification. I'm looking to see if anyone with B of A AND Wells Fargo handling their loan as Servicer and Trustee combination has received any approvals under this settlement. I received the packet from B of A, I turned in the requested documents and I was told by my CSM that they were received on July 3rd to a different department and it would take approx. 30 days. In my experience with B of A, 30 days could be a year.... but I've heard of some of these DOJ mod's moving faster than the MHA mess. B of A tells me when I call and ask them, that having a Trustee of Wells Fargo does not disqualify me as I have read other's on this site claim. Everyone tells me something different it seems, which is typical for B of A so I know I'm probably just blowing smoke...Grrr. Just looking for some hope that there is someone that has been approved that has B of A as their servicer and Wells as their Trustee... I thought that I had read somewhere on this site, someone that got an approval under this same Servicer/Trustee circumstance.

**Cat Damiano** · 08-05-2012, 08:58 AM

In the following thread, the member "playamendoza" is having the same issues as you are, in that their servicer is BofA and the investor is WF;

Letter from Bank of America about the U.S Department of Justice and State Attorneys Settlement

**kasiarasu** · 08-05-2012, 11:14 AM

I am not eligible under settlement because wells forgo services and B/A investor even though my house is underwater.

**Cat Damiano** · 08-05-2012, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by kasiarasu

I am not eligible under settlement because wells forgo services and B/A investor even though my house is underwater.

Wells Fargo clearly states that they would have to be the servicer and investor under the settlement guidelines, but BofA as the servicer does not state it as clear as that. In the OPs scenario, it is reverse of yours.

**chewey** · 08-06-2012, 01:06 PM

Cat in regards to this situation I mentioned in a previous post that I called B of A today and they said Im eligible due to who my investor is. I have been told by Bank Of America that Wells Fargo is my investor. I do not have a fannie mae or freddie Mac loan. The mers database says HSBC is my investor. If this issue arrises for me is the mers database a legitimate source to use in this situation if need be?

**Cat Damiano** · 08-06-2012, 01:16 PM

Actually for the settlement the loan Can Not be backed by Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae, so that is a good thing. Unfortunately MERS isn't always the most current information available. So if BofA told you that you are eligible, having WF for the investor then they would be following the settlement.

**daveinaz** · 08-06-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cat Damiano

Actually for the settlement the loan Can Not be backed by Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae, so that is a good thing. Unfortunately MERS isn't always the most current information available. So if BofA told you that you are eligible, having WF for the investor then they would be following the settlement.

If B of A is telling us that they are still eligible with Wells Fargo as the Investor, how come I have read many people on here saying they were DENIED because Wells was their Investor?? Their website is so vague by saying eligible if the servicer having delegated authority by the investor.

It's been a little over a month since the packet along with the requested documents have been received. My CRM still says he hasn't heard anything and will "get back to me in a few".

**Cat Damiano** · 08-07-2012, 10:03 AM

Dave,

I am unsure why some are and some are not, here in your thread I had pointed out one member that is being told the same as you, and there is the member chewey who is being told something different.

Have you also tried looking at the MERS site just to see what it says, even though, as I pointed out, it may not be the most recent information available;

https://www.mers-servicerid.org/sis/index.jsp

Also, where was it noted that WF is the investor on the loan?

**daveinaz** · 08-07-2012, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Cat Damiano

Dave,

I am unsure why some are and some are not, here in your thread I had pointed out one member that is being told the same as you, and there is the member chewey who is being told something different.

Have you also tried looking at the MERS site just to see what it says, even though, as I pointed out, it may not be the most recent information available;

https://www.mers-servicerid.org/sis/index.jsp

Also, where was it noted that WF is the investor on the loan?

I couldn't find us on that website at all, even with our social and name and address. We did a loan mod. a couple years ago and it said Wells Fargo is our Trustee and a few years before that it said the same. Wells has been our trustee for many years. B of A also confirmed it for me the other day.

**daveinaz** · 08-07-2012, 05:00 PM

I just found a cancelled sale paper from Recontrust last year. It says "name and address of current beneficiary.... Wells Fargo Bank, NA as Trustee for the Benefit of the certificate holders, Park Place Securities, Inc. " And the address it gives under that sentence is a A B of A address and phone number. ?????

**srebecca** · 08-12-2012, 06:38 PM

Bank of America is my servicer and Wells Fargo is the trustee for the securitization my loan is in. According to my last point of contact my loan is not eligible under the DOJ. My 2nd was owned and serviced by B of A and that was completely forgiven. Bank of America has denied all mod requests on my first blaming Wells Fargo as the investor and their guidelines. I sent a letter I received from B of A to Wells Fargo saying Wells Fargo has rejected all modification requests, there isn't a pooling and servicing agreement with modification stipulations etc.. Wells wrote back stating they were not the investor, but the trustee and contractually could not make decisions regarding modifications. Wells stated that all of the statements putting the blame on them were misrepresentations and asked B of A to redress. Immediately after receiving the letter from WF, B of A filed a NOD. I filed a complaint with the CFPB and Bank of America has still not addressed the misrepresentations. They've asked for more time to propose a resolution. In the meantime, I attended an outreach event and we resubmitted all of our updated documents for an escalated modification request. It's been over 3 weeks and still no answers. I was able to find the investor reports for the pool my loan is in. It does show loans that were modified in my pool. I was also able to find the pooling and servicing agreement and it does allow modifications with some limitations.

**Preparingfordefault** · 08-13-2012, 09:29 AM

I JUST got notified that I am APPROVED! BofA sevicing/Wells Investor... I am THRILLED beyond belief! Reduced my principal by 93k with a 3.59 percent rate... I'm absolutely in shock..

**Cat Damiano** · 08-13-2012, 09:47 AM

PFD,

That is such great news, Congratulations!!! I do hope that daveinaz hears something soon as well.

**Preparingfordefault** · 08-13-2012, 10:27 AM

Thanks Cat! Like I said I'm still in shock!

**daveinaz** · 08-22-2012, 06:45 PM

Preparingfordefault, this is GREAT news! Congrats! How long did it take from turning in initial documents to your approval? What % of your Gross income is your payment? Did they do the 25%?

I was notified yesterday (I'm at 6 weeks post doc turn in) that they needed better info on my paystubs. I am self employed, payed by a 1099 Misc. and get monthly/salary paystubs from a company for many years as my pay. The stubs showed names and check amount but no YTD info and no addresses so they wanted the profit and loss statement filled out and I sent them copies of the official checks with the names and addresses on them, along with a Vendor History report that showed the whole year of monthly checks, and YTD info. My CRM said that he received them and was sending them right over and would get back to me in a few days for an update.

I am happy that they actually asked for something I could easily provide... and it was also a sign that someone was actually looking at my mod and my documents and it wasn't still just sitting in a stack waiting for my turn. Now my new docs are in and waiting in the next stack... It seems that what they needed was just stronger income verification of what I had already sent them. I would hope that if it was an obvious NO, they would have said so and not asked to confirm my income to drag me out longer. Anyone know how much longer does it take after they are looking at things finally?

**Preparingfordefault** · 08-26-2012, 08:34 PM

Hi DaveinAz,

From the time that I sent in my paystubs, followed by a request for additional docs (tax form, employment verification letter) it took a grand total of nearly 2 months but my crm was terrible to say the least. I was getting the run around from my first CRM and escalated to the OOP... I was literally approved within 1 week of the escalation and getting assigned a new rep. They came in right at 31 percent of my income (I was silently hoping for 25 percent) but with what I consider a good interest rate that I would have never qualified for in a standard refi.

**hopesndreams** · 08-28-2012, 10:55 PM

I was looking at the threads and am still wondering how you get to know who your investor is. I have been trying to get a principal reduction on my loan which is serviced by BofA. When I called my servicer, I was told that I cannot participate in the DOJ principal reduction program because my investor, Wells Fargo, does not allow this based on their investor guidelines. To confirm my investor, I checked the County records and saw the following transfers regarding my note:
1) November 2010, MERS had assignment of Deed of Trust assigning to US Bank NA as Trustee for holders of Deutch Alt A Securities Mortgage Loan Trust, Series 2007-2 Mortgage Pass Through Certificates.
2) Feb. 2012, MERS again had Assignment of Deed of Trust saying: "For value received, the undersigned holder of a Deed of Trust (herein "Assignor") does hereby grant, sell, assign, transfer and convey unto Bank of America, N.A. Successor by Merger to BAC Home Loans Servicing LP...all beneficial interest under the certain Deed of Trust described below together with the notes and obligations therein with interest and all rights accrued or to accrue under said Deed of Trust"

I checked the Pass Through Certificatesnumbers indicated on the Nov 2010 assignment of Deed of Trust, and if I read it right, saw that Wells Fargo is the Master Servicer. Does this mean Wells Fargo is my investor? However, there was this Feb 2012 assignment of Deed of Trust. Does this show that BofA is my new investor? When I check with MERS website, I see Bank of America as the investor.
I am confused. Who is my investor, Wells Fargo or Bank of America? I hope someone could give me an idea.

Thanks.

**Cat Damiano** · 08-29-2012, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by hopesndreams

I was looking at the threads and am still wondering how you get to know who your investor is. I have been trying to get a principal reduction on my loan which is serviced by BofA. When I called my servicer, I was told that I cannot participate in the DOJ principal reduction program because my investor, Wells Fargo, does not allow this based on their investor guidelines. To confirm my investor, I checked the County records and saw the following transfers regarding my note:
1) November 2010, MERS had assignment of Deed of Trust assigning to US Bank NA as Trustee for holders of Deutch Alt A Securities Mortgage Loan Trust, Series 2007-2 Mortgage Pass Through Certificates.
2) Feb. 2012, MERS again had Assignment of Deed of Trust saying: "For value received, the undersigned holder of a Deed of Trust (herein "Assignor") does hereby grant, sell, assign, transfer and convey unto Bank of America, N.A. Successor by Merger to BAC Home Loans Servicing LP...all beneficial interest under the certain Deed of Trust described below together with the notes and obligations therein with interest and all rights accrued or to accrue under said Deed of Trust"

I checked the Pass Through Certificatesnumbers indicated on the Nov 2010 assignment of Deed of Trust, and if I read it right, saw that Wells Fargo is the Master Servicer. Does this mean Wells Fargo is my investor? However, there was this Feb 2012 assignment of Deed of Trust. Does this show that BofA is my new investor? When I check with MERS website, I see Bank of America as the investor.
I am confused. Who is my investor, Wells Fargo or Bank of America? I hope someone could give me an idea.

Thanks.

Instead of asking this question in so many threads, you may want to keep the questions in the thread that you initially posted in here;

My recent letter to BofA (Part 2)

There are members who have been able to garner that information in that thread that may be able to help you with your questions there.

**hopesndreams** · 08-29-2012, 01:54 PM

I'm sorry I am new to this site. I intended to post my question to this thread because it belongs to this topic but did not realize that I unintentionally posted it in the other thread. I was looking for my original post but did not see it in this thread so I thought it did not go though. So I redid it. Thanks.

**Cat Damiano** · 08-29-2012, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by hopesndreams

I'm sorry I am new to this site. I intended to post my question to this thread because it belongs to this topic but did not realize that I unintentionally posted it in the other thread. I was looking for my original post but did not see it in this thread so I thought it did not go though. So I redid it. Thanks.

You didn't post the question in the other thread, that is the thread that I am letting you know that you may want to post it in. The members in the thread that I posted the link to will be able to help you with that information in that thread due to the fact that they have all looked up their trust information.

**hopesndreams** · 08-30-2012, 06:14 PM

Thanks, Cat. Will do.

**daveinaz** · 09-11-2012, 05:28 PM

I turned in my initial documents as requested in the infamous BofA DOJ Principal Reduction Packet on July 3rd. I've seen some old posts by other banks on how long theirs took in underwriting, but I just got a call from my CRM and he let me know that the last of my documents have been received by Underwriting. Does EVERY application make it this far? He put a smiley face at the end of the sentence and said he would get back to me by Friday... I have a great CRM, I replied for him to have a good evening in the email as I always do. He replied "you toooo!"...?? I know I'm reading into my hopeful feelings but he doesn't usually talk like this to me like he's acting happy. He always tells me there are certain things he can't tell me and in sleek ways try's to still tell me. Yes, it's true. A BofA person actually working FOR the customer! I don't know how long it has already been in Underwriting before this, but they just had asked a couple questions like how many people are in my family, if I received any additional income, like bonuses, pensions etc. and if I paid an HOA fee. I do pay HOA so they had me send over a copy of the statement and confirmed that no more information would be needed and he would get back to me by Friday

Sounds like they are figuring numbers?? I HATE WAITING!!

**Preparingfordefault** · 09-15-2012, 06:45 PM

Yeap, you're moving forward! Good Luck! My new CRM in the Executive Office is super nice and normal - I actually like him very much, he speaks to me like a customer he wants to help and got my DOJ approval at lightening spped once he took my case over. I actually wish he took a little longer so I could save another months mortgage, watch what you wish for, let them take their time so you get another month or so. Once I got my letter my payment was due in 2 weeks....

**daveinaz** · 09-18-2012, 04:14 PM

I turned in my initial docs for the DOJ principal reduction mod on July 3rd. 6 weeks later I was sent a letter requesting more information confirming my pay. Last week my CRM called me and asked me extra questions that they had not asked. He said it was in underwriting and nothing else would be required.
TODAY I received a FED EX packet stating that I was APPROVED to start the trial period. My principal reduction is scheduled to be reduced by $53,521.15. My balance prior to this is approx. $195,000, which will bring down my principal to approx. $140,000. The payment is only about $200 less, at $1155.69 which is FINE. It said this was figured on my gross income. It also says it will bring my loan up to date, which is approx $6000 behind.

My first trial payment is due 11/1, then 12/1, then 1/1. Has ANYONE been DENIED this modification after they received this as long as the payments are made?? It after I make my trial payments, I must still qualify for the mod. in order to receive it. What is the actual process after the trial periods are done??

MY CONCERN: TAXES. It says to check the IRS website to see if I would be subject to taxes on this. I did and there is a Mortgage Forgiveness Debt relief act that is from 2007-2012 that protects us from having to pay taxes on the forgiveness. I don't know why they are waiting for NOVEMBER for my first payment, but that takes my final payment to Jan 1. which is no longer in 2012.......

. Here is the link to the IRS page explaining this. So I would have to pay taxes on over $53,000?? http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/The-M...-Cancellation-

If my trial period starts OCT. 1, then this can be completed in 2012. WHO DO I CONTACT IN B OF A TO TRY TO CHANGE THIS?

I have mixed emotions of happiness and worry..... either way, I think I am approved??

By the way, My SERVICER is Bank of America and my TRUSTEE (investor) is Wells Fargo.

Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks!

**Cat Damiano** · 09-19-2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by daveinaz

I turned in my initial docs for the DOJ principal reduction mod on July 3rd. 6 weeks later I was sent a letter requesting more information confirming my pay. Last week my CRM called me and asked me extra questions that they had not asked. He said it was in underwriting and nothing else would be required.
TODAY I received a FED EX packet stating that I was APPROVED to start the trial period. My principal reduction is scheduled to be reduced by $53,521.15. My balance prior to this is approx. $195,000, which will bring down my principal to approx. $140,000. The payment is only about $200 less, at $1155.69 which is FINE. It said this was figured on my gross income. It also says it will bring my loan up to date, which is approx $6000 behind.

My first trial payment is due 11/1, then 12/1, then 1/1. Has ANYONE been DENIED this modification after they received this as long as the payments are made?? It after I make my trial payments, I must still qualify for the mod. in order to receive it. What is the actual process after the trial periods are done??

MY CONCERN: TAXES. It says to check the IRS website to see if I would be subject to taxes on this. I did and there is a Mortgage Forgiveness Debt relief act that is from 2007-2012 that protects us from having to pay taxes on the forgiveness. I don't know why they are waiting for NOVEMBER for my first payment, but that takes my final payment to Jan 1. which is no longer in 2012.......

. Here is the link to the IRS page explaining this. So I would have to pay taxes on over $53,000?? The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act and Debt Cancellation

If my trial period starts OCT. 1, then this can be completed in 2012. WHO DO I CONTACT IN B OF A TO TRY TO CHANGE THIS?

I have mixed emotions of happiness and worry..... either way, I think I am approved??

By the way, My SERVICER is Bank of America and my TRUSTEE (investor) is Wells Fargo.

Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks!

Due to the fact that the trial part of the DOJ modification program was just getting started back in May, with three required payments, we are just recently seeing the permanent modifications being sent.

Here is one recent one;

WE GOT IT!!!! DOJ Modification

I am sorry, but we would be unable to answer any tax related questions on the forum. For that you would need to speak with a CPA in your state that understands the state specific tax laws.

**Preparingfordefault** · 09-21-2012, 06:27 PM

Congrats on the DOJ approval DavinAZ!

**Preparingfordefault** · 09-21-2012, 06:30 PM

Daveinaz I don't know the tax answer but I thought the mortgage foregiveness tax was in effect until 2014, shouldn't that include reductions? I haven't even thought about this...

**lasflores** · 09-24-2012, 10:02 PM

so far more borrowers are unsucessuful modifing BofA(servicer) Wells Fargo (investor) loans. I myself haven't been sucessful yet. My reason for denial were typical according to the BofA letter; "You are not eligible for the H.A.M. because we service you loan on behalf of an investor or group of investors that has not given us the contractual authority to modify your loan under the H.A.M.P." However, when I read the servicer Paricitatin in HAMP the servicers and not the investors that must modificate. Your thouhgt? Thanks.

**Cat Damiano** · 09-25-2012, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by lasflores

so far more borrowers are unsucessuful modifing BofA(servicer) Wells Fargo (investor) loans. I myself haven't been sucessful yet. My reason for denial were typical according to the BofA letter; "You are not eligible for the H.A.M. because we service you loan on behalf of an investor or group of investors that has not given us the contractual authority to modify your loan under the H.A.M.P." However, when I read the servicer Paricitatin in HAMP the servicers and not the investors that must modificate. Your thouhgt? Thanks.

Welcome to the forum and thank you for joining..........

Unfortunately the HAMP modification program is not mandatory participation for the investor, so the servicer may have signed the agreement to participate, but the investor may not allow their loans to be modified in that way. Most in this case do offer inhouse modification programs. Have you tried to ask for an inhouse modification? Where are you at in the process at this time?

**lasflores** · 09-27-2012, 02:26 PM

Thanks Cat

I have been denied due to the reasons I mention, so I have called the Executive Office and re-applied. I have re-sent all the paper work and waiting for an answer. I have my first mortgage with BofA(servicer)/WF(investor) and my HELOC with BofA. My 1st mortgage in NOT underwater. However, due to my current financial situation, I want to modified the loan and not have to sell and move out. My full intention is the keep and live in my home. I'm also working and waiting for my financial situation to get better. People around me are saying any modification on 1st. mortgage will be difficult because of positive equity. Any members at this forum have any thoughts or answers to my problem? Thanks

**chewey** · 09-28-2012, 09:56 AM

So I called the B of A DOJ Settlement number 8.6.12 and was told “ I qualify for the program”, and that I would receive something 30 to 60 days in the mail.
A few weeks later I called to check the status and was told someone had submitted it and I should receive information in 30 to 60 days.
A little after 30 days I called to check the status and was told “they didn’t see anything in the notes”, “nobody should have told me over the phone that I was approved”, “That they were B of A employees and had nothing to do with the DOJ process they just handle the calls.”
October 5^th will be 60 days and I’m thinking I need to call or do something else. The “Office of the President” thatI see everyone talking about if anyone has had any luck in regards to B of A and their DOJ settlement please direct me to finding that number and any suggestions are appreciated.

**Cat Damiano** · 09-28-2012, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by chewey

So I called the B of A DOJ Settlement number 8.6.12 and was told “ I qualify for the program”, and that I would receive something 30 to 60 days in the mail.
A few weeks later I called to check the status and was told someone had submitted it and I should receive information in 30 to 60 days.
A little after 30 days I called to check the status and was told “they didn’t see anything in the notes”, “nobody should have told me over the phone that I was approved”, “That they were B of A employees and had nothing to do with the DOJ process they just handle the calls.”
October 5^th will be 60 days and I’m thinking I need to call or do something else. The “Office of the President” thatI see everyone talking about if anyone has had any luck in regards to B of A and their DOJ settlement please direct me to finding that number and any suggestions are appreciated.

brian.t.moynihan@bankofamerica.com

Direct: 1-704-386-5687

**chewey** · 09-28-2012, 11:22 AM

Thanks Cat I called and spoke to someone who said it shows I was never submitted to the DOJ for review
He also said my acct Manager is supposed to do that .. when I told her (acct mgr) I was eligible she said she had to recieve a letter from the DOJ advising Im eligible. The guy at the Presidents office said he had no idea what the process was, but that he was sending my acct manager an email to contact me. I also called the DOJ number and they now read a script that says whether or not you are eligible you will recieve information but they can not give you a time frame so much for the 30 to 60 days response I first recieved.

I will try the email you posted, and hopefully I get a better response.

**Cat Damiano** · 09-28-2012, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by chewey

Thanks Cat I called and spoke to someone who said it shows I was never submitted to the DOJ for review
He also said my acct Manager is supposed to do that .. when I told her (acct mgr) I was eligible she said she had to recieve a letter from the DOJ advising Im eligible. The guy at the Presidents office said he had no idea what the process was, but that he was sending my acct manager an email to contact me. I also called the DOJ number and they now read a script that says whether or not you are eligible you will recieve information but they can not give you a time frame so much for the 30 to 60 days response I first recieved.

I will try the email you posted, and hopefully I get a better response.

The email is to the CEO's office which is also the direct line number that I posted and you called.

**RudyM** · 10-09-2012, 12:49 PM

Hello Preparingfordefault, my situation is similar to yours, but Im not sure if you had filed Chpt 7 bankruptcy, I did? BofA is my servicer, and wells fargo is my investor, home underwater, not made a payment in almost 3yrs. BofA is telling me that I did not qualify because Wells Fargo is not participating and they are trying to steer me to a possibe in house Mod. Any info you could supply would be helpful.
Thanks, Rudy

**lasflores** · 01-13-2013, 09:49 AM

Dear Cat

After many month of review, I received a call from BofA CRM few days ago saying I was denied any in-house modification and Well Fargo denied my HAMP for Investor Non participation with no explain given as to why not. My house is to foreclose 24th of this month unless i reinstate to loan. Any advise is welcome. Thanks.

**Cat Damiano** · 01-14-2013, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by lasflores

Dear Cat

After many month of review, I received a call from BofA CRM few days ago saying I was denied any in-house modification and Well Fargo denied my HAMP for Investor Non participation with no explain given as to why not. My house is to foreclose 24th of this month unless i reinstate to loan. Any advise is welcome. Thanks.

I am sorry to hear that they have denied the modification request. I do know that NACA will work with homeowners who have a sale date scheduled and try to help. You can read through their program here;

https://www.nacalynx.com/nacaWeb/ref...aspx?language=