I have qualified for a Nat mort Setllement on my second with trial payments to begin in August on my second with Citi.
It is a descent principle reduction, but the interest rate stayed the same. I believe the interest rate reduction is for 1st mortgages.
I Would think Citi would explain why you do not qualify if you asked.
In any case, if I am reading Exhibit-D of the AG settlement correctly, for those who are “underwater, but current,” it only applies to the first lien. Which I have taken to mean the 1st loan only.
Still, is it possible/advisable to pursue “negotiations” with the second in parallel? Or could that actually throw a wrench in trying to work on the first via the AG settlement?
Esp. if the first loan ends up being refinanced, and the second loan must be “dealt with.”
While speaking to Green-Tree, they told me any modification requests that I make would be pre-screened by GT and passed on to BoA for their final judgment.
I really wish I knew how this arrangement worked so I had an idea of how much leverage exists for the consumer.
I was hoping GT was sold the loan for cheap. But, that does not sound like the case.
I spoke with BoA today, and was told I "pre-qualify" per the AG settlement (current, but underwater).
But, they could not tell me what criteria will be applied to determine how one actually has their status changed to "qualified." I'm envisioning a bureaucrat sitting behind a desk, flipping a coin at this point. Oh, and the person I spoke with also was distinguishing between "rate-adjustment" and "refinance." I now have to wait up to 60-days for "phase#2" survey for determining qualification and potential offer/adjustment scenarios.
Since the banks will fulfill their obligations under the terms of the settlement before they run out of qualified customers, I'm guessing banks will be using their own additional internal criteria to make the final determination of who actually gets help (beyond the criteria stipulated in Exhibit-D of the AG settlement).
I attended a seminar this weekend, where MD AG Doug Gansler spoke and took questions. He mentioned that if banks do not meet benchmarks as far as "paying off" their part of the settlement (read: helping enough people financially), their future obligations could increase. So, IMO, it sounds like banks have every reason to "get this behind them." But, that is not to say everyone is going to be helped. Sadly, they will not. If you do the math, it isn't possible. Banks will have fulfilled their financial obligations under the settlement long before they run out of qualified customers.
Beyond the AG settlement, legislation that will expand remedies beyond GSE-backed loans and distressed situations will make permanent help more likely. Three such pieces of legislation exist and may actually get moved to the floor if enough voters apply the pressure: S.3085, S.3047, S.2909.
Bill Summary & Status - 112th Congress (2011 - 2012) - S.2909 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Bill Summary & Status - 112th Congress (2011 - 2012) - S.3047 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Bill Summary & Status - 112th Congress (2011 - 2012) - S.3085 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Congress also needs to be dinged about extending debt-forgiveness beyond this year. Unless something is done, 2013 will mean you may have to resume paying taxes again on any "principal forgiveness" you might receive. [http://www.taxlawyerlasvegasnevada.c...of-2012.shtml]
I encourage everyone to write the congress-critter in order get some action from a Congress that doesn't seem all that focused on passing anything meaningful.
Just wondering, is this for owner occupied property only? I had a mod with BOA awhile back, it wasn't great but I took it.. we got blessed and we're able to buy another house, so we ended up renting the old one. I'm just waiting for my tenant's lease to expire and will let that go, we put in $2000 a month just to keep that house and it is $180K upside down. Wonder if this settlement will apply to that, I know for HAMP they started to include the Rental Property, which was owner occupied originally. But what I like with this DOJ settlement, is that they actually consider people who are current in their payments. I could really care less and just let go of the property, but If I can modify it and at least reduce the amount of money we have to come in every month, then we'll keep it and keep the faith that hopefully one day we'll be able to see profit in that house, although there is sentimental value in that house also..w hich I am trying not to hold on too to much .
Thank you for any input you guys may have!
Thanks for your post.
For details on mods pursuant to the national AG-BOA settlement, I recommend you visit the national settlement site and download the BOA consent judgment. All the criteria are explained there.
Either way, if it were me, I'd immediately stop making all payments on that rental property, to include loan payments, property tax, etc. In so doing you'll enjoy immediate positive cash flow rental income and will enjoy that recurring revenue for many many months. Needless to say, try to keep your tenant, and if they vacate, find another.
If I remember correctly, in order to qualify for a national settlement mod, the borrower must be in default and the property must be underwater.
You might also visit the HAMPster Wheel Game thread for some creative ideas on how to extend your ownership, and of course, maximize your cash flow, allowing you to stash a bunch of $$ cash.
Just to clarify you have to be behind on your payments before January 31, 2012. So if you stop making payments now you may not qualify for the DOJ Settlement. You will want to confirm this before you decide to stop making payments.
Any modification of $50k or more needs to be notarized. The instructions with the final loan docs are vague and BofA doesn't include the "CA All-Purpose Acknowledgement Form". When I spoke with my CRM she advised that they will make adjustments for future customers.
Once again BofA seems to leave out the details so they can blame the customer. My CRM took a couple of days to get the proper information about the notary requirements.
I know that you're very knowledgeable in this and I'm hoping you can help me out.
I am self employed and our business has taken a bit hit which caused this foreclosure process. Now we are in the process of getting out of this hole.
My question is related to income vs. loan amount.
We need to submit to them our estimated income moving forward. I want to make sure that I neither say something too low, nor too high which could get us declined for this new mod.
For instance our current loan is approximately $5000/month. What should we be forecasting for income so that they want do this principle reduction for us?
I know that before they used the 31% of gross figure, but now sure how it's done now.
Do you have a rough idea of what would look best in their eyes?
Ex: projecting $6000/m income or is $8000/m income better? etc.
What is the rough calculation to determine what's best in their eyes? 31% of gross? etc.
Thanks so much!
I am self-employed as well, my spouse is not. My business took & hit and my spouse had furloughs.
Make sure you have a detailed profit & loss statement b/c they only take your net income into account. I made my income based on worse case scenario.
I would base my income off what your mortgage payment would be on your home's current market value.
So basically take the that number (the mortgage of the CMV) and multiply it by three.
I hope that helps. I have a good friend that is a Real Estate attorney that helped me determine it.
Feel free to ask as many questions as possible.
My wife just called BOA earlier tonight just to see if we would qualify. The lady she talked to which gave her, her direct number said that we qualified for principal reduction and/or interest reduction. My wife wants me to call tomorrow to deal with it. Right now we haven't given BOA any info that they don't already have from our loan info. We have never been late on a payment, or at least not 30 days late(sometime end up paying the $50 late fee by being a few days late only). But the amount we owe on our mortgage is $185,000 (roughly)(payment is $1446 including escrow/ tax etc, roughly), and is only valued at around $135-140,000 according to our real estate tax statement. The actual value of our home is about that as well, when compared to what homes next to us are going for.
I'd like to get the principal reduction if possible. Though I figure that won't happen since we haven't met the late payment criteria. My income is $32.73 per hr. So 4 weeks(160 hrs) is $5236.80 plus $108 for shift differential every month(figuring 160 hrs). Though I have union dues of $85 each month. Now, my income fluctuates as I rarely get less than 40, but generally average 42-44 hrs a week, but not always. Lately my gross income each month with the little bit of overtime comes out to around $6300. My wife make about $7.80 per hr getting almost strictly 40 hrs per week. So her incomes about $1248 gross a month. Though, she has a start up home business that isn't profitable yet. We spent around $10k on her business last year, and only made around $1200 (shown on our tax statement). This year so far we spent around $1400, but probably more if I asked her.
I'm wondering if my wife's business can be counted so as to show less income? Also, I am the only one on the title or mortgage as we bought and did a refinance before we got married 2 years ago. If I didn't count her income, I think I would be doing pretty good to get a better rate at least. Anyone' thoughts on my life story LOL?
Last edited by loader; 07-19-2012 at 12:17 AM.
In most cases they will request two years of tax returns. For my husband's wages, who is employed BofA counted his gross income. As for myself being self-employed they used my net income. My husband is the only one on the loan as well but they took my income into consideration as well.
I have a friend that only used her income and not her husbands.
Another thing they take in account is the number of residents in the home, I don't know if you have any dependents.
- I Have a close friend who has never been late and she and her spouse gross over $200k with no dependents that were able to get a principal reduction.
-there is a program available for people that haven't been late but have and upside-down mortgage
- Only give the banks the info they ask for
I hope this helps
[Not sure where to post this question -- so posted on a couple of threads ... sorry] On Monday we received a letter from our B of A "personal rep" thanking us for submitting all the required financial information and telling us our info would be reviewed and we would hear back within 30 days ... THREE DAYS later (yesterday) we get a letter from our B of A "personal rep" indicating that "we are unable to offer you a modficiation because your current monthly housing expense, which includes your loan's monthly principal and interest payments, plus property taxes, hazard insurance, and hoemowner's dues (if any), are considered to be affordable under this program."
Go back a few weeks ... our B of A rep called to say that we were qualified under this program and would be pulled from the regular B of A modification program so she could submit us to the DOJ program. She told me that I would get a denial letter for the regular program and that they would let us know that we were being put into the DOJ program. (Never received this letter). At the same time she told us that I would receive a letter from the DOJ indicating they were reviewing our case for the DOJ program (Never received a letter from anyone other than our B of A rep - the letters noted above, first to say we were being submitted to the program, and the second letter (three days later) saying we didn't qualify). The B of A rep also indicated that we would know before her whether or not we qualified for the program because the DOJ would contact us directly and she would receive the information after me. However, the DENIAL LETTER came from her - the B OF A REP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have been going through this process, like everyone else for the last couple of years. Our loan is approximately $600,000 - our payments over $2800, and the approximate value of our home based on Zillow.com is $272,000. We were so excited about the principal reduction possibility ... now this ...
Not even sure where to go from here ... there denial letter suggests we apply for a short sale or deed in lieu of foreclosure program with them. WE WANT TO KEEP OUR HOME! Why don't they get this?
We do make "decent" money, we are NOT rich. We live paycheck to paycheck and make it stretch the best we can. Yes, it would make sense to walk away and start over - but we're not trying to do that -- we are trying to make the effort to work this out ... why are they so STUBBORN!
I did not get any other information as to the denial .... no numbers, no percentages, no NPV ... nothing ... just what I put above. Any suggestions on where to go from here? PLEASE RESPOND ASAP AS I AM TRYING TO CALL THE B OF A REP THIS MORNING ... ANY INFORMATION/SUGGESTIONS APPRECIATED! THANKS EVERYONE!
Thanks for your post.
If it were me, I'd demand the contract be modified. If they refuse, I'd fire your property manager, i.e. cancel the property management agreement. If the broker won't voluntarily allow that, I would simply breach the contract. I'd inform the renter that he/she will no longer deal with the property manager.
Then I'd execute a new rental agreement/lease with the tenant, or you might get another PM (not something I'd personally do) who'll do that.
Or you might consider stopping payments without informing the PM. Yes, you'd be breaching the contract, but so what?
Good luck to you.
Thanks for your post. Sorry to hear of your predicament and empathize with your frustration with BOA.
Was that last denial letter for the DOJ mod or for a HAMP mod?
I have several recommendations.
1) Immediately stop paying BOA.
2) Write a letter to Brian T. Moynihan, BOA's Chief Executive Officer, briefly explaining the situation and demanding an appeal of that decision. You might copy several other organizations. You will likely get a call from BOA's OOP.
3) Visit the National AG Settlement site and download and study the BOA Consent Judgment. All the qualifying criteria are specified for the various DOJ loan mods.
Lol... Yeah I'm now kikcing myself for getting a PM, he doesn't do $sit! all he does is collect the money. However, he is holding on to a the Tenant's deposit and If I breach the contract I'm just scared of any legal ramifications. Argh! I'm also scared that if I stop paying and PM and tenant's found about it.. ( I guess MLS broadcast homeowners that are 60-90 days behind on their payment? according to a realtor friend of mine.) So If they found out, they might stop paying me also... which they might think of me being greedy in keeping the money, but heck we've put in alot of money in that house! even 20K will not be enough! plus it's our credit getting screwed up?? I know that's for another thread.. lol.. Thanks! Appreciate all the comments and views in this site... sometimes a starngers advice is better than someone you know who can be biased IMO.
Thanks for the info ... I guess where we failed to meet the DOJ criteria is our payment is not more than 25% of our gross income, by about 2% ... but that's because they include my husband's "subjective" quarterly bonuses as gross monthly income. If we could exclude these somehow we would qualify. These bonuses have decreased over this year and will probably continue to decrease with the economy since they are based on his employer's company's performance.
We have not paid our payments since last November, as we are so upsidedown and the payments are really not affordable for us - long story short, we are currently housing/taking care of our daugther and her two kids, she is unemployed and going back to school for a nursing program. Her husband left her with the kids and all the debt ... we are trying to help her pick up the pieces and move on ... wish we could keep the home as it helps provide a stable environment for all of them as well.
Any other suggestions on other mod programs we should be asking about? We heard about a program where you could sign your deed over and still rent back from B of A for two years. Anyone else heard about this program? Not what we want, but would like to have a couple of years to build back our credit and our savings.
As I said, our income is stable, but we are in our 50's and staying in a home that is almost $400,000 upside down just doesn't seem financially sound. Everyone keeps telling us to walk, but would really like to look at other alternatives ...
Thanks again for any input.
Okay.. Not sure what just happened.. but I got a call from BOA after making the call yesterday.. about "putting us on the list for "DOJ" settlement. So I was told that I can do the application with her on the phone, so we did.. gave her our financials and supposedly, their system will filter out which program I will qualify for..so I waited about 3 minutes after we went through with all our financials, then she said that the only program we qualify for is Forbearance ( I still have to research that, although I've heard, it's really not a good thing). So yeah at first she told me that under the MHA /HAMP program, rental properties is not included, then I said uuhmm... according to the HAMP Tier 2 Supplemental Directive 12-02 renatl is included. But so yeah I guess this the end of our modification? Shutdown right away! we'll propbably open a new one when we stop paying...
So has any one here know anything about FORBEARANCE? Should I even waste time and effort on it ?
I can't believe you're going to listen to one of BOA's uneducated minimum wage reps.I recommend you download and have the applicable reference in front of you next time you call.I guess this the end of our modification? Shutdown right away!
As an interesting exercise, if you can spare the time, try calling and talking to at least three different reps; you'll likely get three different stories. Or it's possible you might get a rep who knows what she's talking about (but don't hold your breath).
If I were you, I'd submit a HAMP 2.0 application ASAP. Good luck!
Thank's Tom! yeah I shouldn't give up yet! Can't believe I'm going down this raod again.. but what the heck! I mean... it's true we can possibly afford this house in the long run... but what's my incentives of trying to keep this house and help stabilize the market, if the minute I lose a renter in that house, then we can NOT at all afford it without the rental income! I'll see what kind of Creative Forbearance plan they'll offer me and go from there.. You are right.. I sometimes wonder how these first line reps really care about helping you out.. when they see that you make so much more than they do. They probably think I'm greedy and selfish... however every penny that we have we worked hard for it! when all the other kids went partying and $hit! I stayed in school and worked my a$$ off to get where I am now... shoot! sorry out of topic.. but yeah I'll call back and see what the next person will offer me.. however they do have that in record.. 'cause when I did my financials earlier.. they had a record of my old one from when we first modified our loan.. funny how they didn't lose that! hahaha
OMG! I was in the page 3 of 144 page of reading "The Hampster Wheel Game" in the other thread, when someone from BoA called.. just doing a follow up..then I said Umm.. I actually want to apply with the "HAMPSTER 2.0 program" the lady was like huh? what? and I was like I meant the HAMP 2.0 program.. hahahahaha.... wonder if they've heard of that game already? Great Ideas btw in that thread.. Sorry I posted here.. I still need tyo update myself on that thread..
i call and spoke with a BOA rep to day and was told i turnd down for DOJ settlement and i ask way he said u can only do 1 loan mod in 5 yrs so BOFA can not help u have a good day. is this true ? who do i call? each time i call i talk to the same kid hes my point of contact and they say i can talk to no one but him. can someone one here give some other contact info thanks
You might also download and refer to the DOJ v. BOA consent judgment. Eligibility criteria is specified therein.
where is the link for the download and is the 1 loan mod every 5 yrs true thanks 4 the info tom
Last edited by Movingon123; 07-21-2012 at 07:56 AM.
We are going to appeal and resubmit loan mod app - I'm not ready to give up and let them win - will continue to play the Hampster wheel game as long as necessary! There has to be something they can do to keep us in our homes!
Gray555, good for you! Do what is best for you and your family. That is the key. Corporations will look after the bottom line and that is their bottom line.
I laugh on the part that it took a settlement like this to force them to work with us yet still half ass, and just a lip service on both the government part and the corporations who settled in my opinion.
Naive as it sounds - I should have received a voluntary call that goes something like this (exaggerated but to my point) "doing an account review sir (pause)... see that your prop value has dropped way below what you owed, and your mortgage pymt (current int rate) is way above for the same house valued today or way higher compared to the going rate of rent (pause)... do you want to stay (wait for response)... Good to hear you want to stay; we want to stabilize the economy, and provide positive outlook/hope of your future. Let's reduce your mortage (pause).... End of story. 5 min conversation.
Looking to relocate to a different city and just rent; logistically doesn't make sense for me to stay; and would like to get it over with reason for DIL for me. Been reading the news, following certain post here... Tired of the BS.